Current Most played Frames/Stuff - Nerf Predictions?

[(PSN)Yggranya]

1 hour ago, JackHargreav said:

All of those won't get any nerfs. Or the chances are very slim to say the least.

Mesa and Saryn doesn't really need a nerf either.

Yes Saryn scales but only her damage. She can still get killed pretty easily on high level content. And she's way too situational.

Mesa isn't all that op either tho it would be better if she had normal exalted weapons instead of the auto aim ability she has. Which is not as terrible as it was originally but it's still not great.

When a single warframe can make the rest of the team redundant, and i mean with a single button make it so that everyone elses contribution is just adding more mooks to be instantly deleted, they really deserve to be nerfed. Nerfed or reworked.

Too bad that won't solve the problem DEs lazy designing has created. When we consider how vehemently some people are against any kind of nerfing and/or changes, it seems unlikely that anything DE might do would be enough to matter. Can't hurt the feelings and waste the "effort" of these fools. Especially since DE takes forever to do anything, which means that if this won't change anything, 5 years later they might consider doing something small again.

Let's be honest, even if DE would nerf them all into the ground, people will just take the next thing that gives the same ease in tileset deleting to get to the rewards as quickly as possible.

I'm still wondering why any of these people are still hear when the game is obviously too boring to play. No, it isn't playing when you just press a single button to win. You can SAY it is, but we all know that's BS. Yes, i also doubt you have fun doing it, unless watching netflix on you second screen counts. Pfft...

[KIREEK]

When Khora deluxe/prime gets released, it's likely a rework will happen, especially on her 1st ability, If that happens to be to far away in the pipeline, they just update her 1st ability claiming "unintentional damage" or "multipliers being applied incorrectly" and move forward, possibly hyping that the deluxe/prime will bring changes to her.

The idea is, in order to anounce something new and fresh, you must 1st ruin what is currently implemented.

Other than that i don't really see anything too severe altough the interaction between hildrin and energy siphon might get a change (since it makes hildrin impossible to kill asside from certain niche attacks and enemies (toxic and leech eximus)

[Tiltskillet]

21 hours ago, nslay said:

Yes, and this is completely overkill for almost all content in the game. She can do a lot of overkill damage to a clump of enemies!

Since it's just massive overkill damage, you'd have no objections to a 50% nerf, right?  (I'm not serious, I have no particular objection to Khora other than Strangledome being annoying, especially in the way some really thoughtless players use it.)

[nslay]

9 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Since it's just massive overkill damage, you'd have no objections to a 50% nerf, right?  (I'm not serious, I have no particular objection to Khora other than Strangledome being annoying, especially in the way some really thoughtless players use it.)

I'd be fine (actually very happy!) if Rivens no longer applied to stat stick weapons. But have you ever experienced Steel Path Grineer with Khora... even without a Riven? It's really not as clear cut as SneakyErvin describes it. Make no mistake, Khora can kill those Grineer just fine, but you often have to wait some seconds for something like Slash to finish them off. I can make a video and demonstrate this if you'd like. I used her primarily for Defense, Interception, Hijack, and sometimes Mobile Defense... and the Grineer Defense missions stand out as me waiting seconds for the trapped Strangledome Grineer to bleed to death before the next wave.

EDIT: P.S. The Strangledome synergy already nerfs her damage by 50%. I don't another 50% would effect her kill capability... though the Steel Path Grineer man... that armor.

[(XBOX)Obi Wan Dandobi]

I'd like to see exalted weapons get a buff. Having no acolyte mods allowed really hurts them. Ditching Wukong's 4 with the helminth system because it can't keep up with any melee weapon that can reliably crit isn't a good sign. A frames ultimate should be their defining ability.

[nslay]

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Does anybody really care about non-SP balance though? We'll never achieve it. Mesa will always be a star chart sortie queen, and she will always fall behind for SP. While at the same time Khora, Octavia and Baruuk doesnt really care if it is non-SP or SP, things die just the same. Balance to Khora needs to come at the deep end which is SP with all synergies accounted for, it will bring her inline and keep her exactly the same in trivial pointless Star Chart and sortie missions. And it is whipclaw that stands for the biggest balance issue, most notably the augment tied to it, which would be a good start when it comes to rebalancing her.

It just isnt balanced when a solo frame can rack up the same amount of kills as a full group in a mode like SP. There is no reason to ever queue with others if you play Khora since you'll be doing the killing either way. Plus solo removes the worries about headless-chicken team mates that spread out the spawns.

I think it's the other way around. Nobody cares about Steel Path (SP) balance (and it has never been well balanced). The Steel Path Star Chart is largely vacant for public games...

Here's what a Steel Path Hydron looks like with a Naramon Khora (not that I like Hydron... it's just one of the highest level Grineer Defense missions). She can do this Defense mission pretty quickly owing entirely to her Strangledome synergy. So you're right in the sense that you can just play efficiently by yourself. Personally, I don't think that's a problem and I don't think it's any justification for nerfing her. There are plenty of frames that can do this solo too! And Khora is not the best at all mission types anyway...

Spoiler

 

At the same time, if you take her to either SP or non-SP missions, other players can still play the game (albeit annoyed by Strangledome). It's the same for Octavia and Baruuk... you can actually enjoy the game with a Khora, Octavia or Baruuk team mate independent of SP or non-SP. This is not true for Saryn, Equinox or Mesa... this is why they rightfully get a lot of the negative attention in forums. This is why players leave when they encounter these frames. Some players want to kill some enemies... not watch them all die instantly!

My perspective is that frames that remove fun for other players need to be nerfed or changed somehow. Being able to play solo SP? IMO, not so much a justification for nerfs... You and I both know that Revenant can do this too (albeit not as efficiently). He's a great solo frame! A hypothetical player in this Hydron video with Khora would have plenty of opportunity to kill enemies (look at how long it takes to kill them!). And this would be true in non-SP Hydron too.

P.S. I recommend Dispensary for Khora. I beat Steel Path before the Helminth System was released, so I repeated my original strategy. But Dispensary would make this so much smoother... I wouldn't be breaking open containers or opening lockers for energy/health orbs if I had Dispensary.

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, nslay said:

That's not true. If you play Khora in a public match... even if it is SP..., other players will have no trouble finding enemies to kill. They'll be more annoyed by Strangledome than by Whipclaw.

People talk about Saryn and Mesa because they can wipe entire maps almost instantly with a button press in normal game play (nobody cares about Steel Path). It leaves all the other players as spectators. This doesn't really happen with Khora and Whipclaw.

By the way, I did a lot of SP with Revenant who, like Khora, can do lots and lots of damage to a small number of enemies (smaller than Whipclaw + Strangledome... but much much more damage than Whipclaw).

I dont really see your point. If people do run off to find those enemies they are gimping the run as is. So in a public SP, no people will not have a chance to kill unless they wanna counter efficiency when there is a Khora present. And who the hell talks about annoying? That isnt at all the reason why I think Khora needs a nerf, she's simply miles more efficient than pretty much anyone else when it comes to SP. The rate at which she kill far far up in the levels is just silly.

Saryn and Mesa are annoying since it is star chart crap. Both can be toned down, Saryn by having LoS rules added and Mesa by having her reticle reduced and normalized. Still, this isnt the reason for why Khora could use a nerf.

And why do you compare something to just Whipclaw? That is highly uninteresting since it simply isnt how the frame is played. That is like saying Wukong has more lives than Nidus simply because they are guaranteed and you dont use virulence to build stacks. Compare the full kits with synergies or dont compare at all. Rev will not deal several millions of damage to 50+ targets per button click through walls, floors or ceilings while squatting behind a corner in safety.

18 hours ago, nslay said:

I'd be fine (actually very happy!) if Rivens no longer applied to stat stick weapons. But have you ever experienced Steel Path Grineer with Khora... even without a Riven? It's really not as clear cut as SneakyErvin describes it. Make no mistake, Khora can kill those Grineer just fine, but you often have to wait some seconds for something like Slash to finish them off. I can make a video and demonstrate this if you'd like. I used her primarily for Defense, Interception, Hijack, and sometimes Mobile Defense... and the Grineer Defense missions stand out as me waiting seconds for the trapped Strangledome Grineer to bleed to death before the next wave.

EDIT: P.S. The Strangledome synergy already nerfs her damage by 50%. I don't another 50% would effect her kill capability... though the Steel Path Grineer man... that armor.

It actually is that simple if you mod for corrosive. You dont need to wait for anything. If you plan on pushing far you simply mod for full slash, at which point it takes 1 slash tick to finish anything off that doesnt die from the initial armored hit due to the rediculous scaling of the augment and slash ticks ignoring armor. Even with the layered steel path health buff the heaviest units wont survive a slash tick.

Defense and the other modes are also not really benchmarks for why Khora needs a nerf. Survival is where her kill rate simply outshines anything else when it comes to essence farming. All of the other missions are unaffected by kill speed aside from finishing defense slightly faster. Kill speed in survival however results in a massive increase of eximus units.

[(PSN)sister-hawk]

I just really hope they don’t nerf Khora in order to justify letting people keep using their dispo 5 weapons as stat sticks. To let the existence and use of rivens be the reason for a Warframe nerf would be ridiculous.

[RazerXPrime]

A nerf doesn't happen simply because something is powerful. A nerf happens if something is abused or has unintentional side effects.

[nslay]

13 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I dont really see your point. If people do run off to find those enemies they are gimping the run as is. So in a public SP, no people will not have a chance to kill unless they wanna counter efficiency when there is a Khora present. And who the hell talks about annoying? That isnt at all the reason why I think Khora needs a nerf, she's simply miles more efficient than pretty much anyone else when it comes to SP. The rate at which she kill far far up in the levels is just silly.

 

55 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Defense and the other modes are also not really benchmarks for why Khora needs a nerf. Survival is where her kill rate simply outshines anything else when it comes to essence farming. All of the other missions are unaffected by kill speed aside from finishing defense slightly faster. Kill speed in survival however results in a massive increase of eximus units.

I do question your claim about kill speed affecting eximus spawns in Survival when eximus really start spawning in these Survival missions a lot more after about an hour... which is why you see Essence farmers post screenshots of their several hours long Survival missions and you see complaints that often 30 minutes of Survival yield no essence.

Anyway, as I see it, the entire reason you think Khora needs to be nerfed is because she can play Steel Path survival for hours better than many frames? You commented that there is no reason to queue with anyone with Khora... SP popularity aside, there's nobody who really wants to queue for these hour+ long Survivals to begin with (Steel Path or otherwise). Your Khora balance concerns are directed toward an unpopular game mode and a duration of game play almost nobody plays to begin with. That doesn't sound like a good nerf point at all... any adjustment only solves any perceived problem by the vast minority of players.

My point is more directed toward game play problems perceived by the vast majority of players in the most popular settings. Players complain about Mesa, Saryn, Equinox, Limbo, etc... because these frames remove fun from their 10 minute missions. Khora doesn't really share that problem aside of annoying players with Strangledome. Nobody is talking about efficiently gaming the system which results in a Khora that is hogging all the kills 3 hours into a Survival game. Nobody really cares about queuing for such missions to begin with! And yes, in a public Survival game, players run off to kill other enemies so they can enjoy the game. Almost none of these players came to a public Survival game to play 3 hours to hunt Eximus units in the most efficient manner possible.

IMO... and you can disregard this... it's my personal preference... if you want to farm essence efficiently, it's in Steel Path Derelict Survival. Infested are easy and they seem to spawn way more eximus units than any other faction. You can use any frame with a Gas damage weapon... be it Khora or Revenant or whatever.

36 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And why do you compare something to just Whipclaw? That is highly uninteresting since it simply isnt how the frame is played. That is like saying Wukong has more lives than Nidus simply because they are guaranteed and you dont use virulence to build stacks. Compare the full kits with synergies or dont compare at all. Rev will not deal several millions of damage to 50+ targets per button click through walls, floors or ceilings while squatting behind a corner in safety.

I will say it again. Khora can kill 50 enemies under the condition that there are 50 enemies in a localized clump. That clump is either a result of density (ESO, Steel Path) or use of Strangledome to collect 50 enemies to kill. It's not magically she presses 1 and 50 enemies die... if it were, everyone would hate Khora as much as Mesa and Saryn... because it would ruin their 10 minutes of fun in a public game.

 

47 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It actually is that simple if you mod for corrosive. You dont need to wait for anything. If you plan on pushing far you simply mod for full slash, at which point it takes 1 slash tick to finish anything off that doesnt die from the initial armored hit due to the rediculous scaling of the augment and slash ticks ignoring armor. Even with the layered steel path health buff the heaviest units wont survive a slash tick.

That's a Slash Khora in that video at full combo. That video shows that plenty of them survive several Slash tics before dying... within the first 5 Waves of defense. It's really not as clear cut as you present it to be. Maybe with a Riven and some team mates that buff damage? You see that millions of damage that are actually thousands of damage and tens of thousands of Slash tic damage? And you might be surprised that Revenant's Reave does violate LoS... I killd a glitched Kela da Thaym that went behind a door :)

Anyway, our perspectives don't align... you come from the perspective of efficiency farming in long endurance missions. I come from the perspective of how most players enjoy the game with enjoyment as the object rather than efficiency farming.

[Angwah]

Saryn's claim to OP'ness is basically ESO and similarly constrained maps. There are other frames which are comparable there such as Volt, etc. I almost never see Saryn outside ESO, so, eh? Personally I don't mind the map-clearing ESO frames. Without them to make the focus-farm there competitive vs solo stealth shenanigans, the entire game-mode would be rendered utterly pointless.

Anyway, if balance means kill-stealing everything, I'd rather they start with buffing SP rewards and adding fissures, sorties and arbitrations there. Preferably combined with tweaking public matchmaking to make teams that make sense. Anything and everyone will turn you into a spectator when you're relatively new, the best you can hope for is tagging along and staying out of the way.

 

[shootaman777]

Can we just stop this thread? This is like making a list for DE, doing all the work for them, for nerfs.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

23 hours ago, (PS4)Yggranya said:

When a single warframe can make the rest of the team redundant, and i mean with a single button make it so that everyone elses contribution is just adding more mooks to be instantly deleted, they really deserve to be nerfed. Nerfed or reworked.

Too bad that won't solve the problem DEs lazy designing has created. When we consider how vehemently some people are against any kind of nerfing and/or changes, it seems unlikely that anything DE might do would be enough to matter. Can't hurt the feelings and waste the "effort" of these fools. Especially since DE takes forever to do anything, which means that if this won't change anything, 5 years later they might consider doing something small again.

Let's be honest, even if DE would nerf them all into the ground, people will just take the next thing that gives the same ease in tileset deleting to get to the rewards as quickly as possible.

I'm still wondering why any of these people are still hear when the game is obviously too boring to play. No, it isn't playing when you just press a single button to win. You can SAY it is, but we all know that's BS. Yes, i also doubt you have fun doing it, unless watching netflix on you second screen counts. Pfft...

Who said it was boring.....we're thinking ahead and watching enemy spawns on the radar. 

We're not just "pressing a single button". 

You can simplify anything in that manner to try to justify your argument, doesn't mean it's correct in any way.

People that delete maps without even Saryn are running around, using positioning, they have spent time formaing those weapons and frames as well as farming the materials etc. 

All of those are more than one button press. 

Even Saryn can't delete a map in "one button" unless you're literally at an enemy level that anyone can, like level 30. 

Go to a T3 sortie, use an 280 range Saryn and press one button (miasma) and see where that gets you. 

[Yakhul]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Who said it was boring.....we're thinking ahead and watching enemy spawns on the radar. 

We're not just "pressing a single button". 

You can simplify anything in that manner to try to justify your argument, doesn't mean it's correct in any way.

People that delete maps without even Saryn are running around, using positioning, they have spent time formaing those weapons and frames as well as farming the materials etc. 

All of those are more than one button press. 

Even Saryn can't delete a map in "one button" unless you're literally at an enemy level that anyone can, like level 30. 

Go to a T3 sortie, use an 280 range Saryn and press one button (miasma) and see where that gets you. 

Yes. There is a sequence to follow to make the most out of saryn. But does not take away the fact that she can effortlessly take down the entire map on her own. Looking at the radar does not seem to be a valid excuse for saryn tho. Why? Her miasma does not need line of sight, so it can hit enemies that are not in the radar.

Plus, we have now 2 things that make saryn even more op: helminth and panzer vulpaphila. 

So, does saryn need a nerf? Probably.

Does saryn needs one more rework? Most likely yes. So does Octavia. 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

3 minutes ago, Yakhul said:

Yes. There is a sequence to follow to make the most out of saryn. But does not take away the fact that she can effortlessly take down the entire map on her own. Looking at the radar does not seem to be a valid excuse for saryn tho. Why? Her miasma does not need line of sight, so it can hit enemies that are not in the radar.

Plus, we have now 2 things that make saryn even more op: helminth and panzer vulpaphila. 

So, does saryn need a nerf? Probably.

Does saryn needs one more rework? Most likely yes. So does Octavia. 

The person I responded to claimed people are watching Netflix while using Saryn/nukes. 

People that are nuking are probably too busy setting up their nuke to watch Netflix and "press one button". 

To clear a map, there has to be enemies to clear.....so the level of the enemy as well as making sure there are enemies kind of matters.

What enemy level are you referring to? What map? Are you aware that this stuff matters?