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What do we do with all this power?


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8 hours ago, lukasystem said:

Not gonna read the whole thing.

Farm

corn field lol GIF by Robbie Cobb

Yea I skimmed through it as well. So the rant about diablo SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE WHAT WE ALREADY DO IN WARFRAME. What is the issue? We do missions to get gear to be stronger.

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It is not about power, it is about tresholds. Let me explain what I mean by treshold, because except few content areas, you don't benefit much from reaching a peak.

weapon example: Ignis(Wraith). Bare bone it is on the low end damage wise, however it has a huge area of effect, so people(myself included) minmaxed it to oblivion with 6+ formas, sometimes with frame support, in order to make it relevant in the highest level possibles so you don't have to aim anymore when killing things with your weapons.

content exemple: farming your lich/murmurs. This content is about moving fast and dispatching everything efficiently so you progress objectives while refreshing as fast as possible the repop of ennemies. In this kind of content, there are different tresholds that significantly increase the speed at wich you get your reward(on average because y it happened to me too once:  first mission lich with first try kill). If you are able to one tap everything pretty far away and out of LoS, you'll spawn way more thralls per missions, if you move faster you'll finish missions faster too. It is about meeting a "power" treshold and and "speed" treshold that does not really exist for most of us(you can very often always do at least a bit better speed wise, especially in a game like wf), I minmax mostly for that kind of tresholds, aka how can I kill more things faster while moving forward faster.

And to wrap things up, it ends up beeing about speed, most of the games, if not all the games, that had success since the early days of video game have that speed addict facet, it produces a sentiment of self abandon, of speed and gratification when you are witnessing yourself doing better and better, carefull when aging you are sometimes doing worst as well xd. Even in mmorpgs, I've got few raid rosters that stayed on cleared content between patch in wow, even after clearing in the highest difficulty because we wanted better numbers, not because we had something to gain, it was our 2-4 hours of thrill/week.

Edited by Galuf
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Its DE that designs their mission types that punishes going too long in a single mission because of how rotatitons work . 
Well at least give us some real hard mission in a short period of time if you want us to do short missions , nope thats not on horizon either . I guess we're stuck with sorties being an offcial endgame-ish content with steel path being optional .. 

First time i saw a resemblence of somewhat a real challenge in this game was fortuna enemies on release , they could put up some real fight , it was kinda exciting for me  , then it was butchered to oblivion :d 

in the background someone says wait for sedna open world. and im be like kill me.

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11 hours ago, Zarkor said:

What am I supposed to do with all this power? 

Nothing.

De doesn't want to implement a proper endgame(with endgame rewards) because that way it will not cater to new/intermediate players(and they are the majority of players).
It will not change, because a lot of people don't want to be able to one shot level10000 greneer, they don't want to work that hard for a little bit of fun in the evening.


On the plus side, for those 1% who want to do this, it's not forbidden by the game mechanics.

Edited by vegetosayajin
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Your not in feedback, and all your justification just makes it less likely to be read rather than more relevant. It's nice to elaborate on what you're thinking, but remember that your doing it to see yourself write, not to effectively deliver your opinion. 

Be direct, concise, and save the long winded explanations for responses that actually seek elaboration, not as a preface. 

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43 minutes ago, vegetosayajin said:

Nothing.

De doesn't want to implement a proper endgame(with endgame rewards) because that way it will not cater to new/intermediate players(and they are the majority of players).
It will not change, because a lot of people don't want to be able to one shot level10000 greneer, they don't want to work that hard for a little bit of fun in the evening.


On the plus side, for those 1% who want to do this, it's not forbidden by the game mechanics.

the thing is we had those interesting to fight enemies at least 3 times so far  , and they were nerfed because of said audience , its not like people that wanted to fight hard enemies in general want all the game to become suddenly all hard but the audience that wants easy enemies rather want all to be easy , so idk who is mature here or whatnot .
For example , for fortuna enemies they coulve kept the old ones in a cave or something or a very specific area and whats the problem with that ? Is that so much to ask really , Oh but vets dare to ask something amirite. 

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Right now if you reach 4 alarm levels and just sit on the alarming rod that do stress signal corpus dont even try to come sometimes , not minding their Nef anyo base being populated by tenno .. Its like never mind you can take it man we not sending troops .. Even the alarm system was gimped , back then you would get swarmed if you wouldnt kill the stress signal rods.

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On 2020-10-21 at 7:55 PM, SpicyDinosaur said:

OP, how are you discussing steel path when you have somehow done no missions on either the steel path or the regular star chart, for that matter!

 

I guess if you want to talk about railjack you have experience there. lol

 

OP's Profile

 

For some reason image links have stopped working on the site, but here you go!

Do you really think that's accurate? How can I be MR20 if, according to your image, I've done 0 missions in the regular star chart? Don't you think that... maybe, just... maybe, there's something wrong with what is being displayed?

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2 minutes ago, Zarkor said:

Do you really think that's accurate? How can I be MR20 if, according to your image, I've done 0 missions in the regular star chart? Don't you think that... maybe, just... maybe, there's something wrong with what is being displayed?

I don't know, actually, now that you've called me out on it. I've never seen a bug like that, but I am too lazy to actually do math on everything else you've got mastery for. 

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1 minute ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

I don't know, actually, now that you've called me out on it. I've never seen a bug like that, but I am too lazy to actually do math on everything else you've got mastery for. 

I mean, seeing an MR20 player who has supposedly done 0 missions whatsoever would've made me go like... "wait a minute, this probably isn't right".

Where would I have leveled up my frames or weapons if, according to your image, I haven't done a single mission in the game, ever? lmao. I completed the star chart a while ago and I've done many steel path missions, but not the entire thing. Most of the times I join other people who are on planets I haven't reached on the steel path yet, like for farming Endo, or doing survival and all of that. 

 

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For me, more power = faster missions or a less stressful time in endless missions.

I play for having fun and relaxing, making some progress on some goals (collecting/building things), not for "challenge". That's why the power fantasy appeals to me. It's why they'll never really run out of content for me, at the pace I consume it compared to how fast they produce it. And if I feel bored with Warframe? I just go play another game for a while (Marvel's Avengers, for instance, even though it's really buggy right now.)

(as to people calling for enemy nerfs and then complaining that there are no challenges anymore... that's 2 groups of people, not the same group changing their minds.)

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Here's what you do with all the power, cling to it for dear life and shriek like a lunatic whenever somebody dares try to suggest that it is unneeded and severe overkill.

Also demand things that outright require that insane power despite it breaking the game to the point where the game no longer even resembles Warframe while also being bored because your power makes even that unlosable. Do this while also demanding even more power from the new things that require power to create an unending cycle of powercreep that will never leave anyone satisfied.

Then after that go on the forums saying Warframe needs to appeal to the veteran players with no clear suggestion or outline for what should be done while simultaneously also complaining that other people can complete content and don't deserve to because they aren't doing things the "right" way or played the game long enough to do so.

After that do nothing but log-in to Warframe for 5 minutes at most a day for a login bonus and maybe to make a forma and complain that there's nothing to do and eventually make threads talking about how Warframe is dying.

If you've followed these steps, congratulations, you've reached the end result of rampant power-creep and are now unable to have any sort of fun because the game is impossibly broken in every way/shape/form.

Edited by Aldain
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12 minutes ago, Methanoid said:

you mean normal bountys?

Yeah, regular bounties to buy seasonal stuff, amazing choice to farm, more so considering the Deimos Arcana expansion coming soon

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Why it is so hard to people to just...have fun?

"You have all that power?"
Well,  try to have some fun!, try different things!, change your builds in different ways you ordinarily wouldn't, use weapons/frames you never use/used and and try to see if you can make them likeable for your playstyle, try to mod companions, especially if you don't like some of them(like sentinels,kavat etc etc), try some fashion farme or dojo decorations( trust me, it can be surprising how fun and entertaining it could be), set your own challenges like......."can i survive 1 hour of steel path ?, and if i could, how could i survivie? what's the best way to do it'" stuff like this, try to unlock all the archivments( some of them can be nice brain teasers to solve).......

  .....just, try to have some fun.

you can't have fun? you're bored?  take👏a 👏break , not that hard, you know new stuff will come in the future, so, take a break and wait.

i'm playing since..2014, i have almost 4500 hours, and i'm still playing the game actively.

how? by doing the stuff i just described above.
 

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Well... end game is technically farming fissures. After all, it is the prime parts only source, which are sold for platinum. ESO to farm radiant relics.

I think power matters most in world boss fights. Any place where there is no melee and status limitation, only survivability matters.

SP hits a sweet spot where the power is useful but not necessary. I have 3 main issues with SP though:

1) Not sure why do we need to scale mobs difficulty like in regular missions. Can eximus start rolling on the first wave?  For a mode that is built on  not requiring time investment in missions, having to spend time for missions to become rewarding is counter intuitive.

2) Not sure why there is level differences between nodes. There is no progress in SP like regular star chart. All nodes should be level 140-145. Again, this pushes the reward for a few later nodes over everything else, with no logical reason behind it.

3) End of mission reward on SP should be exclusively relics.

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22 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

Well... end game is technically farming fissures. After all, it is the prime parts only source, which are sold for platinum. ESO to farm radiant relics.

I think power matters most in world boss fights. Any place where there is no melee and status limitation, only survivability matters.

SP hits a sweet spot where the power is useful but not necessary. I have 3 main issues with SP though:

1) Not sure why do we need to scale mobs difficulty like in regular missions. Can eximus start rolling on the first wave?  For a mode that is built on  not requiring time investment in missions, having to spend time for missions to become rewarding is counter intuitive.

2) Not sure why there is level differences between nodes. There is no progress in SP like regular star chart. All nodes should be level 140-145. Again, this pushes the reward for a few later nodes over everything else, with no logical reason behind it.

3) End of mission reward on SP should be exclusively relics.

Endgame is whatever the player wants it to be. It is not relics exclusively.

Kuva and rivens are a contentious issue. I'm gonna go ahead and take a shot in the dark and say they obviously don't want people getting 600 steel essence in an endurance run. Letting people buy boosters then start getting Steel essence immediately as soon as they enter the mission is a recipe for disaster by further enabling no life kuva/riven addicts. 

If you actually read the Steel path release thread, it's supposed to be like a "mirror" of the starchart. The regular starchart has lower levels at the early planets and goes upwards, and so will the Steel path obviously. Steel path awards mastery.....so that can be debated on whether it is a form of progression, as "progressing" through the Steel path star chart will award you more mastery and access to more Steel Path nodes to fight in. Keep in mind the star chart missions are already separated by loot tiers T1 to T3 for example. This is why you get lower tier relics or credit caches or endo for example. An example would be doing an excavation on earth versus pluto.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Endgame is whatever the player wants it to be. It is not relics exclusively.

Kuva and rivens are a contentious issue. I'm gonna go ahead and take a shot in the dark and say they obviously don't want people getting 600 steel essence in an endurance run. Letting people buy boosters then start getting Steel essence immediately as soon as they enter the mission is a recipe for disaster by further enabling no life kuva/riven addicts. 

If you actually read the Steel path release thread, it's supposed to be like a "mirror" of the starchart. The regular starchart has lower levels at the early planets and goes upwards, and so will the Steel path obviously. Steel path awards mastery.....so that can be debated on whether it is a form of progression, as "progressing" through the Steel path star chart will award you more mastery and access to more Steel Path nodes to fight in. Keep in mind the star chart missions are already separated by loot tiers T1 to T3 for example. This is why you get lower tier relics or credit caches or endo for example. An example would be doing an excavation on earth versus pluto.

Would not a more logical solution is normalizing steel essence versus encouraging long runs? 

As for SP, progress, I am aware what DE said, that does not mean it makes any sense. You need difficulty progress for the regular star chart, you do not need it for SP. And lore wise, it is actually the exact opposite of how it should work. Earth is a major Graineer stronghold. Why would it it be easier than Mercury?

However, I do expect that the T1 to T3 reward distribution to remain the same (relics that is). Axi relics are not any more valuable than Lilth relics. As long as we remove endo, mods a d credits from the reward pool. It is kinda dumb to get 2K credit reward on an SP mission.

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On 2020-10-22 at 5:55 AM, SpicyDinosaur said:

OP, how are you discussing steel path when you have somehow done no missions on either the steel path or the regular star chart, for that matter!

 

I guess if you want to talk about railjack you have experience there. lol

 

OP's Profile

 

For some reason image links have stopped working on the site, but here you go!

are you seriously don't know the bug about how the freaking profile page do not show mission exp for any player, at all?

Think for 2s, how the heck could he get an operator if he haven't done any mission, and how the heck he get 45k intrinsic exp if he haven't touch RJ ....

 

 

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what are you supposed to do with the stuff that you collect in Warframe?

literally nothing. there is nothing to do with the stuff you collect. Warframe is a game about collecting stuff to put it on a shelf and essentially never touch it again.
you collect stuff so that you can collect more stuff - but all that serves to fulfill is acquiring more mostly not unique Weapons or more Warframes or whatever, that you put on a shelf and largely don't use. and if you do try to use them, all you can do with them is the same thing you already did in the first place to acquire them, because that's all there is to do.

so you will collect stuff, until you decide that you're bored with collecting stuff, and stop collecting stuff, which then means ceasing to play.

okay to be fair there is a little bit to do with the stuff you collect. you collect stuff/stats so that you can reach about "the midpoint of the game" where you can comfortably complete any Mission that exists. then any stuff you collect after that is just completing the Mission faster and in a more automated fashion. so once you reach about that point, anything to collect after that actively reduces how much game there is in the game for you, which there wasn't a whole ton of it to begin with to say the least.

 

also Excavation isn't the only Endless Gamemode you can't make go faster, Defense is literally the only Gamemode which you can make go faster. all of the others are fundamentally Timer based. even Disruption is Timer based, but to a low enough degree that you often don't notice that while playing.

On 2020-10-22 at 1:47 AM, SpiritTeA said:

It’s pointless really, people don’t need harder content. When people get something hard (Grendel missions, RJ enemies at start, Orb Vallis enemies at start and I’m sure many other I cannot remember of, God merciful, how often do you play Lua spy or rescue for fun? Raids designed for 12 people... I was in party that cheesed nightmare raid in 4 faces because it was actually easier... People are starting to scream how “boring” , “stupid” , “long” new enemies/modes are and  than things get nerfed and people whine about how easy it is. And even on SP, people prefer to sit under stairs for 10 hours , where 3 people do nothing and other one has macros. What the point of thinking of hard content for such people? 

but almost none of that is harder. adding zeroes to the end of a bunch of Enemy Stats isn't making something more difficult. it's making it more tedious. in Warframe all that does it make the game more tedious.

because the Enemies or Objectives or Et Cetera are fundamentally too one note/flat/uninvolved/simple for increasing Stats to make what you're supposed to do actually any more difficult.
a Lancer is still a Lancer no matter how much Health it has. it doesn't matter how many times uneducated people say "well things have to be boring and flat because we have Stats", they will always be objectively wrong and they apparently will always be missing the point on making Video Games that are fun and challenging at the same time.
a game cannot be difficult if what you are tasked with doing is so simple that no numbers you change makes the actual task.... well... more difficult to actually perform. making it take longer doesn't make it more difficult, it just makes it take longer.

this is in stark contrast to plenty of other Video Games, where the Enemies you are faced with and the Objectives you are tasked with, are more complex and that more complex interaction gives the game exponentially more surface area to work with when trying to increase difficulty. because there's some actual stuff you can tweak.
while all Warframe has is Enemies dealing 1000x Damage so that you switch from living to dead, or so that your Health Based Objective switches from living to dead. that's all Warframe has. and the only strategy the Player can have against that, is turning the game off so that the game can't do that. zero complexity in, zero complexity out.

 

it's even hilarious that we have this problem in the first place when we have a complex Damage system and some complex Enemies and all of this cool Movement and Et Cetera - but the game just doesn't use any of it. it's never used. ever. all the game uses is more Lancers and more Health Based Objectives to not get oneshot and more waiting around.
the game has the tools. it just doesn't use them. and us having high Stats doesn't change that. if we had low Stats it still wouldn't change that.

Grendel Missions aren't difficult, it's the same stuff with Stats changed. and even flies in the face of literally the entire game which is about collecting stuff.
Railjack was only ever difficult when your Ship didn't have any upgrades. get some upgrades, and then you just go back to going through the motions.
Venus Landscape Enemies are a lot more diverse than average, which does actually raise the bar of challenge to some degree.
Orokin Moon Spy is pretty neat in the dozens of playstyles it offers + encouragement to learn those many playstyles to carve a faster path through. a remarkable outlier compared to what the game usually offers. Grineer Fortress Spy also does pretty alright at that.
Rescue is practically the same thing as Capture, it's not really different from it in any great capacity. before the Rescue Target could Teleport to Players it was then just a tedious slog of slow walking the NPC from the midpoint to the endpoint. it was basically Hijack.
Raids encouraged Players to be competent at communicating, and like anything reliant on communication, having less people makes it easier since you don't have to coordinate communicating with as many people. 
farming for Steel Essence isn't difficult. just time consuming.

On 2020-10-21 at 5:51 PM, vanaukas said:

like the Nights of Naberus, you should check it out.

that's not an Event. a Shop to buy stuff with a Currency that already exists in the game that you still get from the same places as you did before, isn't an Event.
there was nothing new to do, no changeups in what you do anywhere. the game didn't change because of it, which is literally textbook of what an Event is, something changing, something different.

9 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

If you actually read the Steel path release thread, it's supposed to be like a "mirror" of the starchart. The regular starchart has lower levels at the early planets and goes upwards, and so will the Steel path obviously. Steel path awards mastery.....so that can be debated on whether it is a form of progression, as "progressing" through the Steel path star chart will award you more mastery and access to more Steel Path nodes to fight in. Keep in mind the star chart missions are already separated by loot tiers T1 to T3 for example. This is why you get lower tier relics or credit caches or endo for example. An example would be doing an excavation on earth versus pluto.

which all completely flies in the face of what the supposed point of Steel Path was.

  • to be a place of equality, so that you don't have to pick one Mission over another for Reward reasons even if you'd prefer to play another.
  • to not require Players to play in a Mission for hour(s) to get to 'the fun part'. except you still have to do literally that anyways, because you have to spend an hour in a Mission for Steel Essence to 'warm up'.

it was all about offering a 'Tier 2' that gave Players actual choice on what they wanted to play, so they could play what's fun to them and still grind the stuff they want to grind to keep up on collecting more stuff.
except it failed on every single part of that. not a single of those goals was achieved.
even though Steel Essence is a more global type of Currency that can let you acquire various of the infinitely desired things for Players, the acquisition of that blows that up right on the launchpad.
Despacito, play Linkin Park - In The End.

Edited by taiiat
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6 hours ago, FireSegment said:

are you seriously don't know the bug about how the freaking profile page do not show mission exp for any player, at all?

Think for 2s, how the heck could he get an operator if he haven't done any mission, and how the heck he get 45k intrinsic exp if he haven't touch RJ ....

 

 

Calm down. It's all going to be okay. Let's not bust out the italics.

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There is no content in this game that has the relevance so that there is need to balance our power.

People here have the illusion that the "no content" or "no endgame" is because of power. Dilusionals.

If some day, if they do some form of balance, we still will never have endgame nor good content.

What are they going to balance for? Extermination, Survival, defense? Those trash, simple missions.

Content in Warframe is so simple to have any need for balance.

Edited by MPonder
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