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Show MR in the in-game chats.


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Seeing MR of players would help a lot to provide some context to what they are asking in many situations. Mostly I think this would be helpful in Q&A and Region where there are players asking questions about the game in general, but it would also help in Recruitment for a bit of context to more open ended requests that show up there from time to time.

It would also be helpful for recruitment in higher end activities. After giving the benefit of the doubt to very low MR players I've had to start vetting people by MR to some degree to not bring the whole squad down, if the information was more up-front that would just be more convenient.

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No way this won't be abused. So, no. And no, MR won't ever be a skills/knowledge reference. I've had plenty of bad experiences with MR25+ and, on the contrary, plenty of good with MR10- players.

Just because MR29 dude says X and MR8 says Y that X automatically becomes the truth.

What's next ? An MR filter in chat because those scrubs don't deserve to be read by high MR people ?

Edited by Chewarette
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13 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

No way this won't be abused. So, no. And no, MR won't ever be a skills/knowledge reference. I've had plenty of bad experiences with MR25+ and, on the contrary, plenty of good with MR10- players.

Just because MR29 dude says X and MR8 says Y that X automatically becomes the truth.

What's next ? An MR filter in chat because those scrubs don't deserve to be read by high MR people ?

I second this opinion. ^^

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2 hours ago, Oorel said:

It would also be helpful for recruitment in higher end activities. After giving the benefit of the doubt to very low MR players I've had to start vetting people by MR to some degree to not bring the whole squad down, if the information was more up-front that would just be more convenient.

Sounds like you are just getting bad people. I have had much better experiences with lower MR (16 or below) players than higher. What you have to remember: MR and knowledge/skill have no relationship. Many people make new accounts to play the game again, or help their friends without trivialising everything. So you could be talking to a MR27 player using their MR2 account.

 

Your idea is okay, provided it gives a disclaimer about how meaningless MR is.

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb Oorel:

Seeing MR of players would help a lot to provide some context to what they are asking in many situations.

well you can do what everybody that wants extra info to the question can do look at the profile of the people who are asking like if they did sertain quest and stuff that are important for the question.
i had mr 18 players where away from warframe for years asking for second dream stuff and things like it so mr is no indication for any question.

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No thanks. I don't have a need to be patronized by people seeing my MR29/30+ and assuming I'm a bad player because "Urr durr MR doesn't means skill so high MR must be unskilled as hell", as some would like to believe.

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MR means absolutely nothing in terms of the opinions up for discussion.

I have had a massive mixed-bag of competency levels across my time. From the guys that intentionally don't rank up their MR and have five or six years of experience in game, to the time when MR 23 was the highest rank and I encountered an MR 23 player that had been in the game only a few months and done nothing but grind out weapons who screamed at me on voice (yes, voice, not text) to stop sprinting in a survival because it 'used up the life support faster', or before that when an MR 18 player tried to prove to me that life support stacked above 100%, so activating a tower at over 70% didn't waste anything.

While MR does offer bonuses for your play, such as starting mod points, higher standing caps and more trades, it has absolutely no use as anything but a 'stuff' tracker.

That's why DE aren't actually doing anything of genuine value for players that reach MR30. It's just a counter.

So at what point does it need to be shown anywhere except when somebody bothers to look at your actual profile?

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As much as some don't want to admit it, MR is a general skill and knowledge indicator. Sure there are outliers on the high and low ends but that's just what they are, outliers.

On average, the higher your MR, the better you are. If you purposely keep your MR low then that's false representation of low MRs. Likewise if you just keep raising your MR to make people think you're good without actually playing the game then you are falsely representing high MRs.

Edited by (PS4)Double991
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Mr29 mr11 Very mixed feelings on this idea, some will definitely abuse this because of how DE handles MR. Agree no real meaning other than grind progress.

On the other hand i see players answering questions on this forum and in Q&A with advice that pre MR5 (war within) players cannot even do. eg telling a mr2 to use vaz to heal or go to eris to farm mutagen samples when there not off venus, and won't be for awhile. So yes low level in game this could be a good toll and spoiler avoidance tool. But later on i can just as others said see this as a i'm better than you tool. Anonymous mr has both pros and cons as well basically the opposite of knowing m.r   

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Double991 said:

As much as some don't want to admit it, MR is a general skill and knowledge indicator. Sure there are outliers on the high and low ends but that's just what they are, outliers.

On average, the higher your MR, the better you are. If you purposely keep your MR low then that's false representation of low MRs. Likewise if you just keep raising your MR to make people think you're good without actually playing the game then you are falsely representing high MRs.

Yeah this is basically my observation. In general Higher MR means a player has more tools, more mods, more warframes set-up and so on. If you are doing very specific farms its more likely that a higher MR will have setups to contribute. Aside from that there are often low-effort setups like a desecrate nekros that almost anyone can join with so its not that you need to aggressively vet everyone either.

 

I understand that the general feeling is that my suggestion will lead to a negative discrimination and promote a kind of elitism, I do not think that is true at all. Thing is that if I need to, I still use MR to discriminate if I'm forming a group with high demands, I still look at MR before I engage with someone asking a question to get an idea of how detailed I might have to be.

I feel that MR is relevant in chat situations and it is not a hidden attribute, its just obstructed.

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14 hours ago, Oorel said:

Seeing MR of players would help a lot to provide some context to what they are asking in many situations. Mostly I think this would be helpful in Q&A and Region where there are players asking questions about the game in general, but it would also help in Recruitment for a bit of context to more open ended requests that show up there from time to time.

It would also be helpful for recruitment in higher end activities. After giving the benefit of the doubt to very low MR players I've had to start vetting people by MR to some degree to not bring the whole squad down, if the information was more up-front that would just be more convenient.

Time to start bringing troll frames to high level content.  Pacify+Banish Nyx here I come.

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10 hours ago, (PS4)Double991 said:

As much as some don't want to admit it, MR is a general skill and knowledge indicator. Sure there are outliers on the high and low ends but that's just what they are, outliers.

On average, the higher your MR, the better you are. If you purposely keep your MR low then that's false representation of low MRs. Likewise if you just keep raising your MR to make people think you're good without actually playing the game then you are falsely representing high MRs.

It is not. For example I do not level crap. If  I did, I would be mid to late 20s MR. I am currently MR18. And it is probably going to be a long time before I even hit MR 20, cuz I only level things that I want to obtain. And there are sections of the game that I do not play, like RJ. 

Sure though, MR 8 player is not going to understand the game anywhere close MR 27. But after ~MR 14, it is just an indication of how much crap you grinded. No more no less.

Edited by (PS4)thegarada
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1 hour ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

It is not. For example I do not level crap. If  I did, I would be mid to late 20s MR. I am currently MR18. And it is probably going to be a long time before I even hit MR 20, cuz I only level things that I want to obtain. And there are sections of the game that I do not play, like RJ. 

Sure though, MR 8 player is not going to understand the game anywhere close MR 27. But after ~MR 14, it is just an indication of how much crap you grinded. No more no less.

true, I judge player competence from around mr 13 to 29  about the same. 

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16 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I encountered an MR 23 player that had been in the game only a few months and done nothing but grind out weapons who screamed at me on voice (yes, voice, not text) to stop sprinting in a survival because it 'used up the life support faster'

This is a very old rumour that has persisted since the Survival Weekend Event (which introduced the game mode) and has been on the wiki page for the Survival game mode far longer than it should have been. I assume that's where this player got the idea. I'm pretty sure the rumour was laid to rest when Survival was standardised with the introduction of Kuva Survival, which fixed the negatively scaling droprate of life support.

That aside, it's a really funny anecdote.

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On 2020-10-22 at 1:56 AM, Chewarette said:

No way this won't be abused. So, no. And no, MR won't ever be a skills/knowledge reference. I've had plenty of bad experiences with MR25+ and, on the contrary, plenty of good with MR10- players.

Just because MR29 dude says X and MR8 says Y that X automatically becomes the truth.

What's next ? An MR filter in chat because those scrubs don't deserve to be read by high MR people ?

I disagree with your assessment on the fact that you can already see MR simply by right clicking and view profile.  That said I agree it's unnecessary as a feature.

So, right answer, wrong reason.

Here's the thing.  I've got over 7.4k hours in mission, and have min/maxed all the garbage in the game.

That said, I've forgotten more about this game than most people ever learn about it.

That said, I can still be wrong, and I don't know everything.  There's a strong chance if I'm very certain about something and someone else is MR 8 is telling me otherwise, they are ignorant to certain things I know better about, but again, I can be wrong, just like anyone.

That said, MR is a poor metric for skill and knowledge, but it's also the only tool we have that even resembles such a metric.

Saying it's entirely worthless is like saying a maxed SAT score doesn't make you smart because all that shows is that you can fill in circles with a number 2 pencil.

While technically accurate, something very important is lost in the translation, which is that with time and learning and practice you accumulate knowledge that it takes to get the achievement.

This is just something that happens with time you put in.

Yes, everyone learns at different rates.  

Yes, everyone has had an experience with the MR 29 jerk that is a know it all and is objectively and provably wrong, but we tend to remember negative biases, especially when they quell our own insecurities (I'm just as good at MR 8 as the MR 29 is!) through confirmation bias.

I can't say anything for certain without objective statistics, but as someone that has been around a minute, I can tell you the loud mouthed idiots are always the ones you remember, but are almost always the minority (see any bad example of any group in the real world: internet trolls, religious bigots, white supremacists, etc.), they are always the loudest and most obnoxious and most memorable, but they are always also the minority.

The same is likely to hold true for MR 29 jerks that talk out of their butt.

In most cases, you don't put in over 4k hours into a game and not learn something worthwhile along the way that a newer player is not likely to figure out intuitively.

That said, the premise OP has about it making a difference is quality of information transmitted is terribly off.

This is because even if you are a mega ultra elitist hardcare player, if you miss one set of patch notes everything you might say can be completely gone and out the window.

I had a dude tell me the other day how he could own any of my setups with his atterax maiming set up and it was the best.  Dude was a returning player, in for a wild surprise.  That data was totally accurate like 2 years ago.  Now it's laughably wrong.

Telling someone X frame is best or X weapon is best will also likely similarly be outdated every four months as DE continues to hammer and nerf all riven dispos and top tier set ups into the ground to the point where they break the SP enemy AI to try and negate botters, only to result in punishing dojo decorators that very likely had 0 to do with the botting issue, meanwhile people are still pulling 240+ SE every 90 minutes...  So yeah, whatever anyone thinks they know is subject to change with any hotfix or update and whatever is good info today can be laughably wrong not too long from now.

Edited by Klokwerkaos
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Um, no. MR doesn't mean anything, and it should stay that way. We do not need some form of rank or metric to judge whether or not someone knows what they are saying or doing.

Edited by DrakeWurrum
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7 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Um, no. MR doesn't mean anything, and it should stay that way. We do not need some form of rank or metric to judge whether or not someone knows what they are saying or doing.

MR means something, its an imperfect measure, but it doesn't mean nothing.

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I was playing on an alt, and had region chat open and people were asking questions, I spent about 30 minutes answering questions.

There was one guy who took the time to view my profile and started viciously abusing me. About how I was MR2 and had no idea what I was talking about.

Having MR available in chat would do nothing but promote elitism and make the game more toxic.

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4 hours ago, Oorel said:

MR means something,

Except that 'something' has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

In context, it means nothing, because MR in no way reflects the following:

  1. Game knowledge. You think it should be shown because it's relevant for the Q&A section. It is not. Players of any rank can ask the same inane questions, and players of any rank can ask intelligent questions.
  2. Player Skill. You think it should be shown for matchmaking. Since it does not reflect player skill, only player time investment (which has some correlation, but it is entirely shaky), this would be used for MR snobbery.

The evidence is right there in your own post, 'vetting players' based on their MR. I mean... how elitist and exclusionary is that?

It takes virtually no time at all to actually ask the questions of a player joining your squad. Are they equipped to play the content you're doing, do they have complimentary gear, those kinds of questions are easy to ask. Looking at this particular number next to a profile name, stating that they've spent longer than somebody else levelling up gear, is in no way a measure of how they will perform.

At most, at absolute most, you can guess that they might not have certain gear, or more specific builds, but that doesn't mean that they'll 'bring the squad down' because many of the things that players like to min-max for runs don't actually need to be in order to succeed.

One of the most impressive things about Warframe is that when players with enough game knowledge get a little bored, they actually go and help out new players. That's why there are so many players that actually rate the Warframe community so highly; because there isn't an exclusionary nature from the 'higher level' players to the 'lower level' ones.

So why build in tools to allow for the opposite to happen?

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You can already look up ppls profiles just by clicking on their name in chat. You can see everything down to exactly which weapons they have or haven't ranked or acquired, and which gear they favor most. 

While elitism is a very real problem, it's a little superficial to deny the expression of rank in chat except to mildly obscure it. 

As a counter suggestion, every rank has a slightly different symbol, instead of a semicolon separating the name and remark made in chat, they could use a tiny rank symbol, it might be a little hard to make out, but there's a pretty dramatic difference between a rank 7 symbol and a rank 29 symbol. 

Edited by BahamutKaiser
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