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[Warframe Critique] Frost: Updating Cold Procs and Ice Wave Major Change


FoxFX

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Warframe: Frost - todowarframe

 

<<CURRENT POSITIVES OF FROST>>

  • Frost is a viable staple for defensive-objective missions and gameplay. This ice-manipulating Warframe locks down areas and can defend multiple areas at the same time.

  • Snow Globe is a more versatile and an overall beefy defensive ability in terms of Health and being able to create up to 4 domes at a time all over the place. This and being able to increase the Health of the Snow Globe

  • Avalanche is a quick stun ability with temporary Armor Reduction which makes it very useful in higher level content

  • All of Frost's Damaging Abilities have a 600% Chance to proc Cold. Freeze and Avalanche are abilities that cause the "frozen solid" effect.

<<CURRENT NEGATIVES OF FROST>>

  • There is a lot of complaints about how BAD Cold's Status Effect currently is and how it feels counter-intuitive to the fast-pace feel of Warframe's gameplay.

  • Frost's Passive...there is already too much to say about this one from the community's opinion on it

  • Ice Wave seems very underwhelming and with the Augment for it, it just becomes a wider-version of Frost's 1st Ability: Freeze

  • Snow Globe does prevent attacks from allies from "entering" the dome which has been a bit of a frustrating topic for some players that play with Frost.

  • Avalanche's Augment : Icy Avalanche's protective effect can be rather useful but the amount of protection it offers grows ineligible in higher levels

 

<<OVERVIEW OF FROST SUGGESTIONS>>

Frost's gameplay is on the more sluggish and stationary side where the more famous builds rely on Frost's Snow Globe and/or Avalanche for Armor Stripping. This feels fine with the general community, but adding in a bit more to Frost's 2nd: Ice Wave is something that should be done to improve Frost's ability style. There is also some of the Augments for Frost that feels needs some changing to or some buffing required.

Adding a bonus effect of Cold is something that feels needed before any changes to Frost should be suggested.

Overall, slightly improving the speed of Frost's gameplay and the effects of his abilities are a few touches I'd like to idea on.

 

[SUGGESTED ADDED EFFECT TO COLD STATUS EFFECT]

Quote

Added Effect to Cold: Enemies under the frozen effect of Cold received additional Critical Damage based on the Cold Stacks [100% to 450% after 10 stacks].

The core idea is to give Cold the illusion that it slows down materials in an atomic level making things fragile. Cold already has a slowdown effect; suggesting something like Armor/Shield reduction to Cold's Status Effect would be asking a bit too much and would also conflict with what Frost's Avalanche already does and what Gauss's Thermal Sunder pulls off in terms of Armor Reduction. Corrosive and Heat can already reduce enemy Armor albeit in different ways. Suggesting a new Armor Reduction Status Effect for Cold would mean a Corrosive + Cold combo would completely destroy Armored enemies based on if Cold was given such an added effect.

I also don't believe having Cold outright inflict "frozen solid" state would be wise since I feel it would also conflict and undermine Frost's 1st and 4th abilities and other "petrifying" abilities some Warframes have. Crowd Control in Warframe is useful as a utility and as a lifesaver for high level content, though I do worry about Crowd Control abilities turning enemies too dumb with them causing a more unexciting gameplay in the long run.

 

[SUGGESTION FOR FROST'S NEW PASSIVE: ICE ARMOR]

Quote

10% of damage done to frozen enemies within 50 meters adds bonus Armor to Frost which lasts for 12 second. Every new instance stacks the Armor gained and resets the duration. [Max Armor bonus of 500].

[ADDED OPTIONAL SUGGESTION FOR FROST'S NEW PASSIVE: CRYOLEAK] {Special Thanks to Hyohakusha}

Quote

Frost emits a Cold-proc gas in an 8 meter radius pulsing every 5 seconds.

 

[SUGGESTION FOR FROST'S FIRST ABILITY: FREEZE]

FreezeModU15

Quote

1. Freeze's frozen floor patch expands overtime for 4/4/5/7 seconds upon the projectile exploding on impact.

2. Increase Freeze's projectile velocity.

 

[SUGGESTION FOR FROST'S SECOND ABILITY: ICE WAVE {WITH NEW EFFECT}]

IceWaveModU15

Quote

1. Update damage to 400/550/750/900 and staggers enemies on hit

2. Ice Wave now PULLS enemies hit toward Frost

3. Gain +XX% Heavy Attack Wind Up Speed per enemy hit by Ice Wave

4. [Optional] Ice Wave now deals not only Cold but also Slash/Puncture damage [60% Cold / 20% Slash / 20% Puncture] Status Chance remains 600%

[Augment Change] Ice Wave will freeze enemies solid that are equal to or over 50% of Ice Wave's range. {Passive: +1 Melee Range}

 

[SUGGESTION FOR FROST'S THIRD ABILITY: SNOW GLOBE]

SnowGlobeModU15

Quote

1. [Freeze + Snow Globe Synergy Change] Snow Globe destroyed by Freeze will also freeze enemies solid within +25% of Snow Globe's range and afflicts 300% Cold Status Proc.

2. [Optional Change] Ally projectiles/bullets can now shoot through Snow Globe.

3. [Optional Augment Change] Adds Status Chance to projectiles entering Snow Globe. Adds Critical Chance to projectiles exiting Snow Globe.

 

[SUGGESTION FOR FROST'S FOURTH ABILITY: AVALANCHE]

AvalancheModU15

Quote

1. Increase max base Armor Reduction to 60%

2. [Optional Function for base Avalanche] Holding down ability up to 1 second extends Avalanche's freezing range, damage range, and Armor Reduction Amount.

3. [Augment Change Suggestions]

  • Change protective coating as "Protective Icy Plates" absorbing incoming attacks. Status Effects and Knockdowns prevented while Icy Plates. {Ex. Gain 10 Icy Plates from Avalanche = 10 incoming enemy attacks to negate} [Max Stacks up to 10]

 

 

MAIN IDEA ON THESE SUGGESTIONS

  • Having Cold improve Critical Attack Damage to make it a bit more suitable though more situational in therms of having other non-Cold Ability Warframes capitalize on frozen targets.

  • Changing Frost's passive to affect his Armor ratings also work in synergy with his Snow Globe's resulting Health and improves Frost's sustainability outside of Snow Globe

  • Buff the CC potential of Frost's 1st to cover the CC potential Frost's 2nd Augment covers currently.

  • Crowd Gathering utility has a growing use in making most missions quicker and easier to deal with. Improving the pacing for Frost's gameplay by adding pulling CC into Frost's 2nd as well as supporting Heavy Attacks which could make Frost's gameplay more appealing for slower weapon attacks

  • Improving the defensive effect of Avalanche's Augment as well as reducing the Strength Modding required to have a more effective Armor Reduction Attack [Though this would mean charging the ability but Avalanche first sends a freezing wave before dealing the damage making it a little safer to do]

  • Relinquishing the interference from attacking enemies in Snow Globe from the outside while offering an optional Augment which reward shooting enemies inside or out of the Snow Globe

 

<<OMITTED/FAILED IDEAS FOR ICE WAVE AND OTHER FROST ABILITIES>>

Quote

[Cold Execution] Adding a mechanic in Ice Wave to instantly kill enemies of lower health percentage.

[Pulsing Ice Wave] Ice Wave pulses in its conical AOE dealing continuous damage and raping in an ability combo mulitplier.

[Physical Ice Damage] Have Ice Wave deal Cold but also IPS Damage as well.

[CryoLeak Passive] Frost loosing Shields pulses a medium range Cold proc and adds temporary 25% damage reduction for 6 seconds.

[Freezing Armor Effect] Enemies frozen have portions of damage done also reduce enemy CURRENT Armor

[Avalanche CryoGenesis] Avalanche's Augment instead adds a low Damage Reduction and Health Regeneration for a short duration. Duration based on # of enemies hit.

 

<<CONCLUDING QUESTIONS FOR PLAYERS AND FROST MAINS>>

  • Do you feel Frost needs a little more mobility in terms of how he performs? Would you like to see Frost more in missions outside of defensive objectives?

  • With Heat Damage gaining Armor Reduction in its Status Effects, do you think Cold deserves an additional effect to its Status Proc?

  • What are your current thoughts on Ice Wave and its Augment?

  • Do you sometimes feel frustrated with being unable to attack enemies from outside Snow Globe compared to the less restrictions Gara's Mass Vitrify has?

  • Do you find needing to stack a lot of Power Strength to get the best out of Avalanche a bit too much?

  • Snow Globe currently allows Finisher Damage to be dealt to the frozen enemies that collide with terrain. What are your thoughts about this particular utility?

  • What are your thought on the idea of Cold Procs completely freezing enemies solid in higher Cold stacks?

    • Do you feel it could make missions slower if it just continuously freezes enemies solid?

    • Would you feel it would make Cold too powerful of a Crowd Control Element?

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4 hours ago, FoxFX said:

<<CONCLUDING QUESTIONS FOR PLAYERS AND FROST MAINS>>

  • Do you feel Frost needs a little more mobility in terms of how he performs? Would you like to see Frost more in missions outside of defensive objectives?

  • With Heat Damage gaining Armor Reduction in its Status Effects, do you think Cold deserves an additional effect to its Status Proc?

  • What are your current thoughts on Ice Wave and its Augment?

  • Do you sometimes feel frustrated with being unable to attack enemies from outside Snow Globe compared to the less restrictions Gara's Mass Vitrify has?

  • Do you find needing to stack a lot of Power Strength to get the best out of Avalanche a bit too much?

  • Snow Globe currently allows Finisher Damage to be dealt to the frozen enemies that collide with terrain. What are your thoughts about this particular utility?

  • What are your thought on the idea of Cold Procs completely freezing enemies solid in higher Cold stacks?

    • Do you feel it could make missions slower if it just continuously freezes enemies solid?

    • Would you feel it would make Cold too powerful of a Crowd Control Element?

  • I cleared most of the star chart with him, and his lower mobility didn't bother me. Also there are plenty of other frames to chose, many with offense oriented abilities already.
  • No.
  • Ice Wave works nicely. Ice Wave Impedance seems usually less useful than Snow Globe for defending, but there are cases it can unexpectedly be -- for instance it's very effective at slowing Demolysts.
  • As a Frost, i usually shoot from inside the globe. As another frame, i usually let the one in the globe do the job, and i can just step inside if need be. So, no.
  • I focus my build more on Snow Globe than Ice Avalanche, so no.
  • It's a nice bonus. I don't trigger it that often though.
  • Considering Cold status doesn't deal damage, i usually use other elements for proc stacking builds.
    • I don't mind slow missions.
    • Shock on already stun an enemy and also deals lingering damage within a radius. Blast used to knock enemies down within a radius. I'm not shocked with Cold freezing enemies.
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45 minutes ago, maycne.sonahoz said:
  • I cleared most of the star chart with him, and his lower mobility didn't bother me. Also there are plenty of other frames to chose, many with offense oriented abilities already.
  • No.
  • Ice Wave works nicely. Ice Wave Impedance seems usually less useful than Snow Globe for defending, but there are cases it can unexpectedly be -- for instance it's very effective at slowing Demolysts.
  • As a Frost, i usually shoot from inside the globe. As another frame, i usually let the one in the globe do the job, and i can just step inside if need be. So, no.
  • I focus my build more on Snow Globe than Ice Avalanche, so no.
  • It's a nice bonus. I don't trigger it that often though.
  • Considering Cold status doesn't deal damage, i usually use other elements for proc stacking builds.
    • I don't mind slow missions.
    • Shock on already stun an enemy and also deals lingering damage within a radius. Blast used to knock enemies down within a radius. I'm not shocked with Cold freezing enemies.

So you've never played with Gara or Limbo? Frost is just a worse version of them currently. With Limbo, I can still use abilities in and out he bubble and with Gara, I can shoot either way or just have the gara kill everything with her 1 hitting the 4.

I honestly feel if they removed his 1 & 3 and focused his kit aroung his Ice Wave and Avalanche, it'd do well. They already buffed frozen status to work like stasis, so giving him a better 1 & 3 that synergize with his actual kit and not just with each other/being a literal troll to others.

 

There is no good reason to actually use frost if you own Limbo or Gara as they just do the job way better
 

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4 hours ago, JaycemeSwain said:

There is no good reason to actually use frost if you own Limbo or Gara as they just do the job way better

There is one, personal taste. Frost was the frame that carried me through my noob days. I actually subsumed my only Gara because she isn’t my cup of tea.

One change I want for frost is to allow frost to carry 1 snow globe with him like what does Arctic Eximus do, basically turning him into a mobile retreat point for injured allies.

Also Ice Wave‘s and Freeze’s damage should scale by enemy level. 900 damage is near useless in level 80+ content.
 

 

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39 минут назад, DrivaMain сказал:

There is one, personal taste. Frost was the frame that carried me through my noob days. I actually subsumed my only Gara because she isn’t my cup of tea.

One change I want for frost is to allow frost to carry 1 snow globe with him like what does Arctic Eximus do, basically turning him into a mobile retreat point for injured allies.

Also Ice Wave‘s and Freeze’s damage should scale by enemy level. 900 damage is near useless in level 80+ content.
 

 

The idea about picking up globe is neat. But it may become a problem because it will be OP. Like REALLY OP.
So it will need to have a reduced duration and health. Otherwise Frost will become almost invulnerable.

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50 minutes ago, IncuBB said:

The idea about picking up globe is neat. But it may become a problem because it will be OP. Like REALLY OP.
So it will need to have a reduced duration and health. Otherwise Frost will become almost invulnerable.

 

We also have to consider the core mechanics behind Snow Globe's Health and the amount of Snow Globes Frost can put out at a time. Adding some function to pick up a Snow Globe would add a little too much into it.

 

 

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8 hours ago, maycne.sonahoz said:

I know many lovers of trolling will disagree.
I still prefer Frost for defense.

I own all 3 and heavily prefer Gara or Limbo for Defense. I won't use Frost until DE decides to give him his well deserved rework. Frost is in the same boat as Chroma, Valkyr & Banshee, in dire need of a rework. Currently you only use him in defence, while Gara and Limbo are better options in general.

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2 hours ago, JaycemeSwain said:

I own all 3 and heavily prefer Gara or Limbo for Defense. I won't use Frost until DE decides to give him his well deserved rework. Frost is in the same boat as Chroma, Valkyr & Banshee, in dire need of a rework. Currently you only use him in defence, while Gara and Limbo are better options in general.

I have seem many that share your sentiment on Frost. I'd like to know what particular abilities you would like updated for Frost?

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13 hours ago, JaycemeSwain said:

I honestly feel if they removed his 1 & 3 and focused his kit aroung his Ice Wave and Avalanche, it'd do well. They already buffed frozen status to work like stasis, so giving him a better 1 & 3 that synergize with his actual kit and not just with each other/being a literal troll to others.

 

There is no good reason to actually use frost if you own Limbo or Gara as they just do the job way better
 

As Frost is one of the core Elemental Warframes, we can't remove Frost's 1st because of his first Augment.
Removing his 3rd would also cause a major backlash for those that rather like Frost's defensive utility [which is practically the majority of the community].

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I've got over 4k hours in game and Frost/ Prime make up around 19% of that usage wise.

19 hours ago, FoxFX said:
  • Do you feel Frost needs a little more mobility in terms of how he performs? Would you like to see Frost more in missions outside of defensive objectives?
    His mobility is fine. Parkour is more important than sprint speed, and we have Amalgam Serration and Drift Mods if it does get annoying for people.
     

  • With Heat Damage gaining Armor Reduction in its Status Effects, do you think Cold deserves an additional effect to its Status Proc?
    Successive procs freezing enemies solid would be nice, and it wouldn't step on Frost's strength either, since his 1 and 4 do that instantly, and you'd need to stack normal procs.
     

  • What are your current thoughts on Ice Wave and its Augment?
    It's crap. Ice Wave Impedence is overrated and his 2's Helminth Fodder. I do really like the idea of it grouping enemies up though, I did replace it with Ensnare.
     

  • Do you sometimes feel frustrated with being unable to attack enemies from outside Snow Globe compared to the less restrictions Gara's Mass Vitrify has?
    After using Frost for long enough, it becomes very obvious that his 4 is a much better defensive ability than his 3, and his 3 is a weapon, not a defensive ability. His 3 makes a giant shoot me target that blocks shots, his 4 stops enemies from being able to shoot at all. The health scaling off of incoming damage is basically a Dumbo Feather as well. If enemies are kicking out enough damage to give it over 100k health during it's invulnerability period, they're going to remove 100k health in the same exact time span. At that point, you should've just hit 4. It would be nice if allies could shoot through it though.
     

  • Do you find needing to stack a lot of Power Strength to get the best out of Avalanche a bit too much?
    I tried some power strength builds over the years, they're a waste of mod slots. Stripping 100% of enemy armor isn't worth it since you lose the +75% armor ignore + damage bonus from combined elements. 40-100% strength works fine. On the basic star chart his 4 is going to kill groups well past the level you think it will, since the explosion of ice coming off the enemies with chain through clustered groups. On SP it scales infinitely since it shuts down the room, allowing you to go ham with melee or smash them with his 3. That said an increase in the base amount would still be a nice addition.
     

  • Snow Globe currently allows Finisher Damage to be dealt to the frozen enemies that collide with terrain. What are your thoughts about this particular utility?
    This is exactly why it's a better weapon than a defensive ability. Exodia Hunt, Magus Anomaly, Ensnare, the Ferrox, a defense objective, a downed ally, anything that will group the enemies gives you an opportunity to smash them into the ground and each other. Add in Avalanche, Pox, Ferrox, the Nukor, anything that proc status at a good rate and it will one shot once you know how to set it up. It's also great for getting enemies away from defense targets or sending them off of cliffs.
     

  • What are your thought on the idea of Cold Procs completely freezing enemies solid in higher Cold stacks?

    • Do you feel it could make missions slower if it just continuously freezes enemies solid?
      No. Only time I ever got complaints about shutting down the room with Avalanche was when we couldn't proc status effects through it.

    • Would you feel it would make Cold too powerful of a Crowd Control Element?
      Also no. Heat makes enemies stand in place and do nothing as is, on top of the armor strip.

Honestly, the only two issues he really has is that his passive/ 2 are crap, and for some godforsaken reason people never bother to try something other than camping the bubble. Frost is a phenomenal offensive CC frame, and he "defends" things by either making it so that enemies can't even move let alone shoot, killing them outright or setting them up to be killed. I don't think a lot of people even know that you can cast his 4 while aim gliding, and that any enemy the effect radius passes over during that time will be frozen, let alone the fact that his 3 does finisher damage. I've done 3hr Mot SP's with him with no issue and I've got something like 140k kills between regular and prime. Mag and Khora are the only other two frames in the same ballpark.

I dig a lot of the ideas you posted, they show a way better understanding of him than that crap Brozime put out a few days ago, but I do have one suggestion. The armor buff on his passive isn't really that useful. I don't even have Vitality or Steel Fiber on him, just Rolling Guard. When you can completely prevent enemies from attacking, armor and health become pointless. For endurance runs where enemies are just going to 2 shot you after a certain point, maintaining your shields for shield gating and covering the moments where things aren't frozen are a lot more important. A passive radial slow effect like a much better version of Coolant Leak would fit his theme a bit better imo.

Finally, for the people who compare him to Gara and Limbo, please at least learn how the frames function before making false assumptions. Frost is offensive CC, Gara is a nuke tank, Limbo is are denial personified. It always makes me laugh when people try to make suggestions about frame reworks, say something that shows an obvious lack of understanding of how the frame works, and then when I /profile them they've only got 0.1-0.2% usage with barely over a thousand kills on the frame in question.

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On 2020-10-23 at 6:43 PM, Hyohakusha said:

I've got over 4k hours in game and Frost/ Prime make up around 19% of that usage wise.

Honestly, the only two issues he really has is that his passive/ 2 are crap, and for some godforsaken reason people never bother to try something other than camping the bubble. Frost is a phenomenal offensive CC frame, and he "defends" things by either making it so that enemies can't even move let alone shoot, killing them outright or setting them up to be killed. I don't think a lot of people even know that you can cast his 4 while aim gliding, and that any enemy the effect radius passes over during that time will be frozen, let alone the fact that his 3 does finisher damage. I've done 3hr Mot SP's with him with no issue and I've got something like 140k kills between regular and prime. Mag and Khora are the only other two frames in the same ballpark.

I dig a lot of the ideas you posted, they show a way better understanding of him than that crap Brozime put out a few days ago, but I do have one suggestion. The armor buff on his passive isn't really that useful. I don't even have Vitality or Steel Fiber on him, just Rolling Guard. When you can completely prevent enemies from attacking, armor and health become pointless. For endurance runs where enemies are just going to 2 shot you after a certain point, maintaining your shields for shield gating and covering the moments where things aren't frozen are a lot more important. A passive radial slow effect like a much better version of Coolant Leak would fit his theme a bit better imo.

Finally, for the people who compare him to Gara and Limbo, please at least learn how the frames function before making false assumptions. Frost is offensive CC, Gara is a nuke tank, Limbo is are denial personified. It always makes me laugh when people try to make suggestions about frame reworks, say something that shows an obvious lack of understanding of how the frame works, and then when I /profile them they've only got 0.1-0.2% usage with barely over a thousand kills on the frame in question.

 

I haven't actually considered the Coolant Leak passive but now that you have mentioned it I will gladly add that in the OP as a strong suggestion.

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On 2020-10-23 at 11:43 PM, FoxFX said:

As Frost is one of the core Elemental Warframes, we can't remove Frost's 1st because of his first Augment.
Removing his 3rd would also cause a major backlash for those that rather like Frost's defensive utility [which is practically the majority of the community].

I mean his 1 is useless(even with the augment), so you could make it work like smite so it actually does damage(and isn't a S#&amp;&#036;ty taxon gun that you can't mod out the cold) and as for changing his 3, we have Gara's 4 and Limbo's 4, both of which already outclass frost's 3 thereby making its only real use is to be a troll(due to being like a limbo bubble without the usefulness that his 4 + stasis brings)

 

On 2020-10-24 at 12:43 AM, Hyohakusha said:

Frost is a phenomenal offensive CC frame, and he "defends" things by either making it so that enemies can't even move let alone shoot, killing them outright or setting them up to be killed.

I'm pretty sure you spelt Gara wrong there. Frost is purely the troll camp frame. Gara is the offensive defence frame with good cc and Limbo is the best defensive camp frame. If DE reworked frost to work around his 2 and 4, we could easily see an actually decent frame.

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I think Frost is pretty damn strong, if you're able to theory-craft and min-max him properly, you can achieve around level 500 Steel Path Endurance against Corpus or Grineer (I haven't tried going further, it just gets incredibly tiresome at this point).

I use him more offensively though.

If the community wants to push for more improvements and buffs, then I can't complain. But I think he's in a really good spot, especially with the Helminth system now in place.

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Can someone please explain why cold is considered bad? I mean... ever since the change to how cold works (you can apply status effects to frozen/cold enemies now) it is pretty useful. Especially when playing as nekros.

 

Frost applying 6 stacks of cold with his 2 and 4 is pretty darn useful CC. The fact that his 4 can also strip 100% of a target's armor for a small duration is pretty useful.

I wouldn't say Frost is my go-to for steel path level difficulty he is certainly star chart viable (though every frame is star chart viable...) as well as sortie and ESO viable.

 

I don't disagree that a rework would be nice, he has been passed up multiple times simply because his kit is actually pretty well designed. It is certainly not as syngergistic as some of the newer frames but it does work fine. Frost's main issue as far as I see it is he is kind of boring by today's standards.

 

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