Dual wielding is disabled by too much attack speed and possible Orvius/glaives quality of life changes/mini-rework

[Abdelrhman2607]

This was already posted by someone else but was very short and didn't get any response so i'm posting a newer version with more details

TL;DR Too much attack speed (by too much i mean ANY amount of increase) will prevent dual wielding glaives from performing a Charged throw which doesn't matter for the rest of the glaives but completely disables orvius' special ability which is the only selling point of the whole weapon . Also please get rid of the block to activate the orvius ability mechanic .

 

I did some quick testing with orvius , pathocyst and xoris to confirm this bug :

Point 1 :

pathocyst (0.667 attack speed)(0.867 with fury) : will ALMOST always charge up to the max because of its incredibly low attack speed

xoris (1.17 , 1.52 with fury) : will never charge up to max because of its considerably high attack speed

orvius(0.750 , 0.975 with fury) seems to be in a spot where it just barely works(almost feeling like a 50% chance of it working) .  But any speed increase be it mod of frame will make it extremely hard to make it happen

Point 2:

The mod whirlwind (+180 % projectile speed for thrown melee) seems to somehow increase the likelihood of the glaive charging up even though it shouldn't affect it but so far whirlwind and spoiled strike(+100% damage , -20% speed) are the only way to make charged throws consistently at the expense of wasting a mod slot for a bug. and of course a mod like berserker(+75% speed on a crit) will completely disable charged throws

Point 3:

Tested with valkyr and wisp , all speed abilities will also obliterate the chance of a charged throw

Point 4:
For some reason mid-air throws have a significantly higher chance of charging up than ground throws ( be it standing , walking or running ) (for some reason this is especially noticeable with xoris)

This is all the proof/data I have gathered so far .

Now for some notes about the orvius :

without the bug the puppet explosion effect will easily activate in dual wielding mode(always activates with spoiled strike) which is isn't the problem here the problem is the way to activate it without dual wielding is extremely annoying .

Currently if you want to activate it without dual wielding you have to first go into (hold F) mode , then you have to stand completely still not even crouching is allowed then you need to block for at least a second or 2 then you can throw it (can you see the problem) oh and it also isn't even guaranteed to work after all that

A better way of doing this would be to just fix the dual wielding mechanic and then make it the main way of throwing glaives (by just holding E) and make the middle mouse button throw just an optional secondary way . With a fixed hold E to throw mechanic we could just simply throw a charged throw to activate any melee ability and throw an uncharged throw to do the default thing (it would be nice to implement this with other heavy attacks for the rest of the melee weapons but its more important with glaives because the point of a glaive is that it is different because it can be thrown making "heavy attacks" aka thrown attacks much more used than in any other melee category) This also fixes issues with wanting to throw a glaive but then activating the secondary fire of primaries and secondaries which forces you go into (hold F) mode .

The mid-throw explosion/cancel throw and return mechanic for heavy attacks can also be triggered by just pressing E when dual wielding but you cant do that when not dual wielding so also just preserve that ability by making its primary control being pressing E while a glaive is mid-throw instead of middle mouse button.

This would also kinda remove dual wielding from the game but at this point its a forgotten mechanic DE clearly isn't working on and frankly nobody wants it anyways now that melee 3.0 made it easier to switch between weapons .

This could easily be implemented in a hotfix or if DE can't do it right now then just leave it for the final part of the warframe revised update DE talked about in one of the last devstreams because this has been a bug since I first started playing and so far DE seems to not even know about it .