For people who actually don't know, Molt is a LOT faster than infested mobility!

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

Just for those who Want to go turbojet with gauss or Volt

Molt actually grants MORE speed than infested mobility

The reason for this is that Molt is actually  speed multiplier, while IB is a sprint speed booster

Boosting your overall sprint speed might be useful with frames who already have speed multiplier like Volt...but Molt will forever be more useful and more noticeable than IB

[(XBOX)InductiveBag46]

My iM+telos boltace combo says no

[SpicyDinosaur]

I replaced Decoy with Molt on Loki and learned you can use switch teleport with it. It's a direct upgrade.

 

Also doesn't infested mobility deal more with parkour stuff and not straight speed?

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

32 minutes ago, (XB1)InductiveBag46 said:

My iM+telos boltace combo says no

I meant sprint speed, not parkour velocity 

Even then, a 60% PV at 200% power strength is too small, you need the arcanes to really go from earth to the moon in one bulletjump

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

2 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

I replaced Decoy with Molt on Loki and learned you can use switch teleport with it. It's a direct upgrade.

 

Also doesn't infested mobility deal more with parkour stuff and not straight speed?

Yeah, but you can place decoy anywhere and teleport to it, which is why Loki is tier A at speed

Molt can't do that

[taiiat]

Molt can be better for applying to more than just Sprinting yes, but then Infested Mobility still ends up winning again since it has a Parkour Multiplier. as Parkour Multipliers are all a pretty major boost.

depends on if you use Parkour or not, pretty much.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

Well duh, I thought everyone know that.

[PhiThagRaid]

Good to know, as a person who runs a lot of speed on my Gauss, I prefer IM over Molt due to the 60% increase in duration (5s vs 8s). My build has 244 duration, so that's 12.20s vs 19.52s, this can have a massive effect on the energy upkeep. The Parkour velocity is also quite nice when combined with Proton Pulse.

[PhiThagRaid]

I previously did tests comparing Volt to Gauss speed, at max speed with IM I found Gauss slightly faster than Volt.

To test I ran a loop around the Vallis that starts near the elevator, then follows the left side of the road that goes through the Enrichment Labs.

My time with IM was 54.14s whereas with Molt was 46.29s. The duration of Molt was 3.44s compared to IM's 5.504s. Each is 67.5 energy to cast.

This data results in 663.96 energy for IM, compared to 908.31 energy for Molt. This is a cost increase of 36.8%/Distance. With all the mods in my set up, Molt is 17% faster but costs ~38% more due to more casts, so the speed increase only shrinks that difference per distance by a percent or two.

So it definitely can give more speed, but is quite a bit more expensive to use. Then again this cost argument can be applied to Fire Walker aswell, as it costs half as much and has 6x the duration of Molt. That's a base cost that is 12 times lower.

[quxier]

3 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Also doesn't infested mobility deal more with parkour stuff and not straight speed?

+30% parkour velocity afair

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

Molt can be better for applying to more than just Sprinting yes, but then Infested Mobility still ends up winning again since it has a Parkour Multiplier. as Parkour Multipliers are all a pretty major boost.

depends on if you use Parkour or not, pretty much.

I wonder if it's true in all cases. I got Xaku + Amalgam Barrel diffusion(+60% roll speed). Which makes it pretty fast. One person mentioned Proton mods:

2 hours ago, PhiThagRaid said:

The Parkour velocity is also quite nice when combined with Proton Pulse.

You need to wall dash. Let's forget that not every tilesets have lots of walls. How fast it would be "{proton pulse} + wall dash + bullet jump" VS "{amalgam barrel diffusion} + rolling".

1 hour ago, PhiThagRaid said:

Good to know, as a person who runs a lot of speed on my Gauss, I prefer IM over Molt due to the 60% increase in duration (5s vs 8s). My build has 244 duration, so that's 12.20s vs 19.52s, this can have a massive effect on the energy upkeep.

This was the worst thing about this. I wanted to put some ability (or thing) on Xaku that make it faster and/or faster roll's speed without extending roll's distances. So for 200% strength +60% roll's distance of the Infested mobility would be bad. The Molt on other hand increase speed by 3x without increasing roll's distance. However I run negative duration (as Xaku doesn't really need so much duration, at least for my style it's not necessary). Having speed boost for <5 second were ridiculous.

1 hour ago, PhiThagRaid said:

Then again this cost argument can be applied to Fire Walker aswell, as it costs half as much and has 6x the duration of Molt. That's a base cost that is 12 times lower.

But the Firewalker is not affected by strength but the Molt is. Having 200% strength makes it equal cost/duration wise (200% strength => 3x multiplier  for the Molt and 0.25 for the Fire walker; 3.0 / 0.25 = 12)

[ReaverKane]

4 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

I replaced Decoy with Molt on Loki and learned you can use switch teleport with it. It's a direct upgrade.

Molt is more of a side-grade. You lose the ability to cast it at range, which then kind makes the fact that you can switch teleport to it invalid, since the point is cast decoy somewhere you want to go to, and teleport to the decoy. You can only cast Molt where you already are, so you kinda lose that. Still, its a side-grade because that switch teleport is more of a tool for spy missions where you want to get through laser corridors or the like, so for other missions where you want to take loki, its a good option.

[PhiThagRaid]

3 hours ago, quxier said:

+30% parkour velocity afair

I wonder if it's true in all cases. I got Xaku + Amalgam Barrel diffusion(+60% roll speed). Which makes it pretty fast. One person mentioned Proton mods:

You need to wall dash. Let's forget that not every tilesets have lots of walls. How fast it would be "{proton pulse} + wall dash + bullet jump" VS "{amalgam barrel diffusion} + rolling".

This was the worst thing about this. I wanted to put some ability (or thing) on Xaku that make it faster and/or faster roll's speed without extending roll's distances. So for 200% strength +60% roll's distance of the Infested mobility would be bad. The Molt on other hand increase speed by 3x without increasing roll's distance. However I run negative duration (as Xaku doesn't really need so much duration, at least for my style it's not necessary). Having speed boost for <5 second were ridiculous.

But the Firewalker is not affected by strength but the Molt is. Having 200% strength makes it equal cost/duration wise (200% strength => 3x multiplier  for the Molt and 0.25 for the Fire walker; 3.0 / 0.25 = 12)

Just btw, if you were using the wiki to determine that 3x multiplier, that is incorrect. The way saryn's speed stacks is that it is a 50% boost and not actually a 1.5x multiplier. This means that 200% strength is only a 2x multiplier. 1+(50%×200%)=2.

Why does Amalgam barrel diffusion have to be separate? I basically always run it. You can do Proton pulse+ wall jump+amalgam barrel diffusion+ roll after bullet jump.

That's an interesting problem to have, wanting faster running, but not faster parkour. Personally never had an issue with IM causing parkour movements to be exaggerated. 

But, yeah I was mainly jokingly referring to fire Walker, because 25% is pathetic on an actual speed build, although both IM and molt are already quite diluted at that level. 

Might aswell do some theory crafting on it, though. On my vallis lap, with fire Walker a time of 80s could most likely be achieved.  (Being conservative) this would mean a 68% ability duration would make FW last 20.40s. That means it would be cast 4 times in that run. At an efficiency rate of 75, that would cost 33.75 per cast. Thus 33.75x4=135 energy. FW would be way more cost effective (5-6x) over the same distance. This was assuming you kept the exact same build. If you dont need power strength for IM or Molt, though, you can make it even more efficient. 

The main problem with your last calculation is that it assumes there are no other sprint boost effects in play, that can sometimes be the case, but then it would most likely not be a focused speed build.

The calculation would look more like (1+x+1)/(1+x+0.25) where x is the effect of other mods. As you can see, as x increases the fraction will get smaller showing the decrease in benefit of the speed boost.

[Galuf]

Keep in mind that bullet jump is a manoeuver and thus makes use of parkour speed. I couldn't do without parkour speed and all of my build use it(worst case I slot in mobilise on a regular slot on a leveling non exilus unlocked frame), and sadly regular speed is kind of very vanilla since 5-6 years(the end of coptering), it is a relic from a glorious old age of hyperspeed you have no idea about and it is now a big noob trap.

As powers that improve speed, infested mobility is quite nice but the duration is a bit overwhelming, I use it on AoE frames that overpower content, if you are running forward you may not have enough energy to maintain its uptime with a 10/10 blind rage slotted despite having energize triggers. It's kind of high end stuff imvho, it's fun and it cut me maybe 5-10s on average when I use it in very short missions, wich is still fine, also I enjoy speed boosts.

Also about exilus, and 12 points exilus. It's only 3 points above drifts mods, that are a slight modulary powerboost and that have different polarities, and 4 less than primed sure footed. Good builds have in mind that and save enough to swap things on their flex slots and exilus at its core a flex slot.

[(PSN)thegarada]

Infested mobility increases parkour speed and lasts longer. It surely wins in the mobility contest. However, molt is a far more powerful combat ability. It taunts enemies, applies toxin and with augment it heals. It is a very powerful skill.

[Galuf]

il y a 3 minutes, (PS4)thegarada a dit :

Infested mobility increases parkour speed and lasts longer. It surely wins in the mobility contest. However, molt is a far more powerful combat ability. It taunts enemies, applies toxin and with augment it heals. It is a very powerful skill.

It is so powerfull that EVERY Saryn I know swapped it out.

[(PSN)thegarada]

36 minutes ago, Galuf said:

It is so powerfull that EVERY Saryn I know swapped it out.

If you are playing ESO, you do not need it. If you are playing SP, skill 4 is the must drop. Even spores are not of much value there, except for the augment.

[Galuf]

il y a une heure, (PS4)thegarada a dit :

If you are playing ESO, you do not need it. If you are playing SP, skill 4 is the must drop. Even spores are not of much value there, except for the augment.

At a point you should just not play her it seems ^^'. She is strong in SP because she has 2 automatic CO sources, her 1 ramps a lot(better than in eso), the damage scales faster than enemies ehp wich is funny because at a point it will kill too fast like in eso and shrink back(but it's still corrosive stacks and it still kills infested), and the ult is an AoE cc that puts a free viral stack wich is, spoiler alert, pretty good everywhere except mb on greeners because you'll want viral on wep anyway so it's not as good CO wise on them(still she was absolutely shredding greeners in Sedna with a good melee build before helminth).

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

10 hours ago, ReaverKane said:

Molt is more of a side-grade. You lose the ability to cast it at range, which then kind makes the fact that you can switch teleport to it invalid, since the point is cast decoy somewhere you want to go to, and teleport to the decoy. You can only cast Molt where you already are, so you kinda lose that. Still, its a side-grade because that switch teleport is more of a tool for spy missions where you want to get through laser corridors or the like, so for other missions where you want to take loki, its a good option.

Using decoy in that way is redundant because you can void dash further than decoy can be placed.

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

5 hours ago, Galuf said:

It is so powerfull that EVERY Saryn I know swapped it out.

All two of your friends are not a stand in for the entire community. The speed from molt is utterly secondary to the fact that it removes status effects. A level 200 slash proc will kill most frames in a few seconds. Not to mention the added utility of using Molt as physical cover.

[quxier]

7 hours ago, PhiThagRaid said:

Just btw, if you were using the wiki to determine that 3x multiplier, that is incorrect. The way saryn's speed stacks is that it is a 50% boost and not actually a 1.5x multiplier. This means that 200% strength is only a 2x multiplier. 1+(50%×200%)=2.

Oh, I see. My mistake. It seems that it would require much more strength than I thought.

7 hours ago, PhiThagRaid said:

Why does Amalgam barrel diffusion have to be separate? I basically always run it. You can do Proton pulse+ wall jump+amalgam barrel diffusion+ roll after bullet jump.

It doesn't have but I don't usually do complex maneuver. It's harder to do and it depends on environment so this pseudo-test would be flawed. I usually just roll or bullet jump.

7 hours ago, PhiThagRaid said:

That's an interesting problem to have, wanting faster running, but not faster parkour. Personally never had an issue with IM causing parkour movements to be exaggerated. 

I like CQC and don't like Open worlds. So I don't need long distance runners. I want something that moves in short distance (in small areas) but very quick like Gauss (tap 1st to dash).

8 hours ago, PhiThagRaid said:

But, yeah I was mainly jokingly referring to fire Walker, because 25% is pathetic on an actual speed build, although both IM and molt are already quite diluted at that level. 

Like 20% speed increase for Xaku. It's not good. However Firewalker has other stuffs that keeps it interesting.

8 hours ago, PhiThagRaid said:

The main problem with your last calculation is that it assumes there are no other sprint boost effects in play, that can sometimes be the case, but then it would most likely not be a focused speed build.

The calculation would look more like (1+x+1)/(1+x+0.25) where x is the effect of other mods. As you can see, as x increases the fraction will get smaller showing the decrease in benefit of the speed boost.

Hmm... I see.

 

[PhiThagRaid]

So I did a test to see the actual effect of Nezha's Firewalker. I've yet to test it on Gauss since I've not subsumed Nezha, waiting for Prime to get rid of the normal.  The difference in base sprint speed is a 1.217x multiplier with Mach rush adding some on top of that ~20%. I was able to get a 110s on my Nezha Vallis loop. This will be decreased by ~1.4x which would theoretically give a time of 78.57, so that reaches the 80s I estimated. So the calculation done above does seem accurate, even if just trying to prove a useless point.

[Birdframe_Prime]

I... am confused.

Because this exists:

Spoiler

 

So I would rank it more as 'what actual utility do you want out of it' rather than 'which is better overall'.

[PhiThagRaid]

5 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I... am confused.

Because this exists:

  Hide contents

 

So I would rank it more as 'what actual utility do you want out of it' rather than 'which is better overall'.

That was a bug, though. IM used to stack infinitely when not at its max rank. This video does not give any context, but the player activated IM many times before making the recording. So, a bug can't really be brought into the discussion, especially if it has already been fixed.

[ReaverKane]

7 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said:

Using decoy in that way is redundant because you can void dash further than decoy can be placed.

Not in a single dash.
(INFO BASED ON WIKI)
You need 9 dashes to go above 100m (Decoy's cast range). Since each dash is 12m, 8 dashes will put you at 96m, so you need 9 to break 100.
Also dashing through lasers inside spy vaults (the main use i was alluding) will trigger alarms.

Heck, i just tested it, without Naramon Unbounds, you can't even make the full 100m (99.4 on scanner) with full energy. But you do need less dashes than the wiki suggests, 7 should be enough.

With Naramon Unbounds, you can do it in 3 dashes. Still. My point stands, and dashing through laser walls in Spy vaults will trigger the alarms.
 

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, PhiThagRaid said:

So, a bug can't really be brought into the discussion, especially if it has already been fixed.

Eh, the lack of context was fun though ^^

Anyway, the point of the thing is that Infested Mobility affects Parkour Velocity and Sprint Speed while Molt affects Movement Speed, which are literally diametrically opposed things.

While Molt is great for a decoy with melee, due to it affecting those melee animations as well, it (as far as I've seen) it's limited in that speed boost due to the primary function being that decoy.

IM on the other hand is for actual mobility, where the actions you do to actually speed up, such as bullet jumps and sprinting, are faster but your movement speed at normal pace remains unchanged (which is where it's 'mobility', because part of being mobile is being able to stop on command. Zephyr has speed with her 1, but not mobility, for example.)

That's an important difference and, specifically, leads me to the point I made earlier. As I said: It's not 'which is better' it's 'which utility do you want'.