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PVP Open World Survival: Next Gen Battle Royale


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3 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

I guess you havent heard on whats going on in Destinys 2 cruisable and Trails nore had expirienced any "hard core" pvp players and their colorfull language .

Idc about Destiny tbh.. I play Warframe since steam release. Thus I can say so much for Warframe's pvp. Since its rework it is still tied to the pve code (reason thats causing imbalance through reworks or newly added unbalanced stuff which gets even worse because DE is ghosting Conclave for the past 3 years due to toxic pve purist tantrums), but it has its own multipliers to balance things out. As an example for the Warframes it'll be ehp to mobility. Simple and seperated from pve balance and it does its job formidable. The majority of the weapons is balanced in a way so that prime, prisma, vandal, wraith are merely variations to the stock version. (more fire rate and magazine size for a dmg trade off as an example). Gameplay wise Conclave is closer to games like Quake or GunZ. Not to mention that the stats are set and with the pvp mods you can customize your equip only to a limited extend. Wanna boost a stat, make a tradeoff. Its way apart from *add generic lootshooters with random stat exotic rolls here*.

Bold of you to assume that. Worth a shot, but let me tell you that you're far off and tbh especially due to my experience I'm comfortable to say that a healthy pvp community has so much worth and value even for the pve side of a game. Just take a look at Quake's community. It'll be a highly desirable mentality for Warframe and Conclave's core community (while it still grew back then) used to be on a good path towards that goal. The Conclave discord server itself and players still sticking around and enjoying Conclave, despite its currently poor balance state due to 3 years of dev neglect and constant bullS#&$ting and misinformation spreading from Warframe's pve community side are two proofs for that.

Actually here a little insider info: beside these who already played Warframe.. quite a lot of e.g. quake etc. players had their eyes on Warframe's pvp, but due to the lack of support like a server browser, spectator mode, or similar simple stuff they dropped the interest or the entire game completely.

Edited by Loxyen
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42 minutes ago, Loxyen said:

Idc about Destiny tbh.. I play Warframe since steam release. Thus I can say so much for Warframe's pvp. Since its rework it is still tied to the pve code (reason thats causing imbalance through reworks or newly added unbalanced stuff which gets even worse because DE is ghosting Conclave for the past 3 years due to toxic pve purist tantrums), but it has its own multipliers to balance things out. As an example for the Warframes it'll be ehp to mobility. Simple and seperated from pve balance and it does its job formidable. The majority of the weapons is balanced in a way so that prime, prisma, vandal, wraith are merely variations to the stock version. (more fire rate and magazine size for a dmg trade off as an example). Gameplay wise Conclave is closer to games like Quake or GunZ. Not to mention that the stats are set and with the pvp mods you can customize your equip only to a limited extend. Wanna boost a stat, make a tradeoff. Its way apart from *add generic lootshooters with random stat exotic rolls here*.

 

Balance isnt the problem here , its people .

42 minutes ago, Loxyen said:

 

Bold of you to assume that. Worth a shot, but let me tell you that you're far off and tbh especially due to my experience I'm comfortable to say that a healthy pvp community has so much worth and value even for the pve side of a game. Just take a look at Quake's community. It'll be a highly desirable mentality for Warframe and Conclave's core community (while it still grew back then) used to be on a good path towards that goal. The Conclave discord server itself and players still sticking around and enjoying Conclave, despite its currently poor balance state due to 3 years of dev neglect and constant bullS#&$ting and misinformation spreading from Warframe's pve community side are two proofs for that.

 

Then Im going to use a game you play as axample , that game is warframe , recal solar rails ? do you know or remember why they were removed ?

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44 minutes ago, Sevek7 said:

.

"No, the introduction of PvP into any game will 100% undeniably destroy the entire community, see for example games like Fortnite, Destiny 2, CSGO, Mobas, CoD, BTF, PoE."

I think this is what you are trying to say, if I got it wrong, please correct me [remember, it's a yes or no question, so make sure to correct that part too.]

 

 

 

Correct . And to add into peace of proof to my statement , do you recal solar rails ?

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7 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

Balance isnt the problem here , its people

Indeed, it's mostly toxic members from the PvE side of the warframe community that keep doing as much as possible to prevent the growth of warframe's PvP and are constantly calling for its removal as an "easy" way to get access to a few skins.

Btw, i've had a very long time taking part in competitive communities and based on that experience i've noticed that people with "a colorful language" are usually those who care more about getting rewards or prestige than about actually improving and having fun giving their best, a really common thing in the PvE side of the warframe community.

Btw, at least in my experience, the players with a colorful language are usually those who think to be good at the game (despite having no knowledge about its mechanics); care only for rewards/prestige (not about improving or having fun); their will to get rewards + their lack of skill makes them more likely to abuse exploits to win when they feel challenged, whuch also makes them think that anyone able to beat them with balanced gear is cheating. All of these are quite common traits in warframe PvE players thanks to warframe's shallow and repetitive gameplay (which good for casual players who just want to disconnect their brains or want to play something that isn't juat an AFK clicker but still can be beaten without paying attention while doing literally anything else with the rest of their brain power) despite it having an actually decent mechanical depth once you start digging on it (which isn't needed at all for PvE anyways due to the aforementioned reason)

Finally, in case you want to know what's my experience with competitive communities, i'm a 28 years old man who has been playing in basketball leagues for 21 years, in rugby leagues for 14 years, used to play videogames at arcades back in their day and i'm currently in touch with both, Tekken and Conclave communities; all of these happen to be quite healthy and chill since the least skilled players want to improve in order to beat the best ones, while the most skilled ones just want to want to have fun against challenging enemies, so they help the first group (less skilled players) to improve and eventually become a fun and challenging enemy.

8 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

And to add into peace of proof to my statement , do you recal solar rails ?

It was an unbalanced mess since it used PvE's lack of balance for a PvP environment, it also had other issues such as the mod unlocking system creating a meta even in things as trivial as the mods order;matchmaking always favoring the same side (attackers were always hosts so they could unlock mods and snowball before defenders even made it to the match, play the entire match against bots, or even quit if defenders turned the tables on them in order to make the defense's victory not be counted); but these gameplay issues got mostly fixed with the PvP rebalance and the ability of hosting dedicated servers.

The rest of issues were mostly flaws of the political side of the game with stuff such as 100% taxes on dark sector nodes (DE could at least have put a cap to those taxes) and other stuff more related to people wanting whatever "prestige" they perceived from having the emblem in their shoulder be the same as the one displayed in a solar rail node.

Btw, i find it quite hypocritical to say that PvP communities are toxic cesspools of players with a colorful language without mentioning the toxicity of PvE players, specially towards the pvp side of the game and people who enjoy it which has led to stuff such as Teshin losing some rewards (he had potatoes in his store at some point); events never being brought back (Quick Steel, Hearts and Arrows, Snowball Showdown) disregarding people who legit enjoyed them just because they felt "forced" to play them (despite most of the rewards being available in many other places or a few pointless cosmetics); opposing to any minor improvement to the mode just because they "dislike it and think it should be removed from the game so its players go away as well and its rewards finally get distributed somewhere else"; or the memes and colorful language used by some pve players when referring to us who like warframe's PvP, you most likely have seen it too since these aren't an uncommon sight, but most players still say nothing about these just because toxicity seems to be always acceptable for the self proclaimed "nicest  community in gaming" when it's used to talk about PvP players.

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13 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

Correct . And to add into peace of proof to my statement , do you recal solar rails ?

Yeah, I'll be the first to agree that DE made some serious mistakes with solar rails! Mistakes like allowing 100% tax? I don't understand how any developer in their right mind could think that's a good idea. In fact, there's a small part of me that thinks they did this on purpose. They knew that balancing their game was difficult if they chose the "grind" style game, with constant new content and items. If I were a developer, and I wanted to make players do a lot of grind for constant new items, the first thing I would do is sabotage the PvP mode. The reason I would do this is because the PvE mode does not really require any balancing at all, as long as I keep providing more grind. 

Of course, I cannot be sure exactly what DE's plan was, but I can recognize the signs. Remove all balance, introduce time limited events and rewards for maximum FOMO exploitation, increase RNG, add layers upon layers on top of that RNG, etc...

PvP has always been the antidote to these problems. Because, PvP is the content that never ends. Any PvE content gets boring sooner or later, because AI opponents just aren't that interesting! So, many games use PvP to fight against "content drought." DE tried that, realized that the PvP was too much work, sabotaged it, and then said "oh what an interesting coincidence, our playerbase just happens to not like PvP! I guess we will just never work on PvP ever again!"

I don't know if this is the actual thought process that the developers had. I would guess that it happened much slower, with more nuance, and several extra steps in between, but that the general progression is correct. They were looking for an excuse to not work hard on balance, so they created the excuse for themselves. I don't blame them, they're a business! Businesses will go where they find the easiest money! It was easier to make grindy PvE with paid cosmetics and paid "skip the grind" than it was to make a properly balanced game. To be honest, I bet several of the developers dislike that the game went in this direction, but they recognize that it was necessary for the business, so they have to do it anyway. 

But that doesn't mean that they cannot still make a successful PvP mode. You are correct that they sabotaged their first attempt to make the correct business decision, but there is still hope for the future!

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9 hours ago, Stormdragon said:

 

It was an unbalanced mess since it used PvE's lack of balance for a PvP environment, it also had other issues such as the mod unlocking system creating a meta even in things as trivial as the mods order;matchmaking always favoring the same side (attackers were always hosts so they could unlock mods and snowball before defenders even made it to the match, play the entire match against bots, or even quit if defenders turned the tables on them in order to make the defense's victory not be counted); but these gameplay issues got mostly fixed with the PvP rebalance and the ability of hosting dedicated servers.

The rest of issues were mostly flaws of the political side of the game with stuff such as 100% taxes on dark sector nodes (DE could at least have put a cap to those taxes) and other stuff more related to people wanting whatever "prestige" they perceived from having the emblem in their shoulder be the same as the one displayed in a solar rail node.

Btw, i find it quite hypocritical to say that PvP communities are toxic cesspools of players with a colorful language without mentioning the toxicity of PvE players, specially towards the pvp side of the game and people who enjoy it which has led to stuff such as Teshin losing some rewards (he had potatoes in his store at some point); events never being brought back (Quick Steel, Hearts and Arrows, Snowball Showdown) disregarding people who legit enjoyed them just because they felt "forced" to play them (despite most of the rewards being available in many other places or a few pointless cosmetics); opposing to any minor improvement to the mode just because they "dislike it and think it should be removed from the game so its players go away as well and its rewards finally get distributed somewhere else"; or the memes and colorful language used by some pve players when referring to us who like warframe's PvP, you most likely have seen it too since these aren't an uncommon sight, but most players still say nothing about these just because toxicity seems to be always acceptable for the self proclaimed "nicest  community in gaming" when it's used to talk about PvP players.

Balance and politics were minor issues . Reason SR got removed was becouse of Clan and clan member abuse, purposely couses lag to grind progress into a halt , it was nasty wich is the whole reason why pvp shouldnt be a thing in warframe .

Edited by bad4youLT
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1 hour ago, bad4youLT said:

Balance and politics were minor issues . Reason SR got removed was becouse of Clan and clan member abuse, purposely couses lag to grind progress into a halt ,

Huh, that's just a part of the hosting and matchmaking issues which wouldn't even be a thing in the mode with dedicated servers

 

1 hour ago, bad4youLT said:

it was nasty wich is the whole reason why pvp shouldnt be a thing in warframe .

Meh, just a minor annoyance in a mode that was disabled long ago and, as pointed above, wouldn't be an issue in the current pvp setup. That's just a cheap excuse to justify the toxicity towards a mode you don't like.

-----

I guess it's safe to assume you agree with the parts of the post that weren't even mentioned in your reply.

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1 hour ago, Stormdragon said:

Huh, that's just a part of the hosting and matchmaking issues which wouldn't even be a thing in the mode with dedicated servers

 

It was done on purpose by players to halt rail attack progress in hopes of preventing competitors from taking over node , wich I mind you you was aproached in many ways from coordinated flooding to atemting to sobotage mission with conectivity issues and some other exploits .

 

1 hour ago, Stormdragon said:

Meh, just a minor annoyance in a mode that was disabled long ago and, as pointed above, wouldn't be an issue in the current pvp setup. That's just a cheap excuse to justify the toxicity towards a mode you don't like.

If those annoyance are minnor then why havent DE re-established it back ? awnser is that DE cant make system wich isnt exploited by players , good example is that DE stoped making competative event clan throphys because it boiled down to same alliances finding something to exploit wich can get nasty like with Eyes of Blight event .

Edited by bad4youLT
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3 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

It was done on purpose by players to halt rail attack progress in hopes of preventing competitors from taking over node , wich I mind you you was aproached in many ways from coordinated flooding to atemting to sobotage mission with conectivity issues and some other exploits .

That's part of the political side of the game mode i mentioned above. Also, given how warframe has spoiled its playerbase enough to become a game where players care more about rewards than the game itself, of course these same players will try to break any system as soon as they feel slightly challenged by it (which isn't as noticeable in PvE mostly because our power is the same as playing other games with cheatcodes enabled all of the time and losing is sometimes a bigger challenge than conpleting a mission).

The biggest issue there was DE not having measures to prevent what was basically a DDoS attack, not implementing them in a timely manner, and deciding to put the mode in armistice "temporarily" (i'm sure we all know what that words mean for DE) without ever going back to it after fixing the mode's biggest flaws with the conclave rework.

3 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

If those annoyance are minnor then why havent DE re-established it back ?

I guess that seeing a dedicated group of players complaining in the patch notes threads every single time conclave was mentioned, sometimes going as far asking for its removal (specially after the "temporary" removal of trials) on top of certain group of people becoming awfully loud against PvP events asking for these to never be brought back disregarding the opinion of players who legit enjoyed them despite not being huge fans of pvp anyways (basically the PvE community being selfish and becoming overly toxic over small issues, as usual) has been enough to discourage DE from even trying to bring solar rail conflicts back since the mode had already been disabled mostly due to player complaints over the aforementioned biggest issues.

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23 minutes ago, Stormdragon said:

 

I guess that seeing a dedicated group of players complaining in the patch notes threads every single time conclave was mentioned, sometimes going as far asking for its removal (specially after the "temporary" removal of trials) on top of certain group of people becoming awfully loud against PvP events asking for these to never be brought back disregarding the opinion of players who legit enjoyed them despite not being huge fans of pvp anyways (basically the PvE community being selfish and becoming overly toxic over small issues, as usual) has been enough to discourage DE from even trying to bring solar rail conflicts back since the mode had already been disabled mostly due to player complaints over the aforementioned biggest issues.

So you agree then ? that community would get toxic then it comes to pvp .

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58 minutes ago, bad4youLT said:

So you agree then ? that community would get toxic then it comes to pvp .

The PvE community is already quite toxic towards anyone who doesn't follow the hivemind, even towards DE when they make unpopular decisions or add anything mildly challenging to PvE, so i doubt things would change much if DE suddenly went back to do minor work on pvp content.

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5 minutes ago, Stormdragon said:

The PvE community is already quite toxic towards anyone who doesn't follow the hivemind, even towards DE when they make unpopular decisions or add anything mildly challenging to PvE, so i doubt things would change much if DE suddenly went back to do minor work on pvp content.

And you think adding more to it wount make it worse ?

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1 hour ago, bad4youLT said:

And you think adding more to it wount make it worse ?

Already said above, i think things wouldn't change much with the community since only a small amount of very loud players would be the ones getting triggered.

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1 hour ago, Stormdragon said:

Already said above, i think things wouldn't change much with the community since only a small amount of very loud players would be the ones getting triggered.

And yet Solar Rails and every event that included competative trophys tell the other story .

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27 minutes ago, bad4youLT said:

And yet Solar Rails and every event that included competative trophys tell the other story .

Those tell exactly the same story as most riven disposition nerfs, any warframe rework that sounds like a nerf, weapon rebalances and the addition of mildly challenging enemies to the game despite none of these thing being related to pvp or competition in any way.

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1 hour ago, Stormdragon said:

Those tell exactly the same story as most riven disposition nerfs, any warframe rework that sounds like a nerf, weapon rebalances and the addition of mildly challenging enemies to the game despite none of these thing being related to pvp or competition in any way.

don't bother he just gonna ask shallow question and bait out reactions so he can be nitpicky on whatever he feels triggering lol

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16 hours ago, Loxyen said:

don't bother he just gonna ask shallow question and bait out reactions so he can be nitpicky on whatever he feels triggering lol

Yes, I gave up too. I was spending 10 minutes typing up nuanced answers including a lot of middle ground and statements to find commonality. The response generally was to ignore everything [it even took me 3 tries to get an answer to a simple yes or no question!], restate the one (and only) point, and claim it to be obvious and self-evident when it very clearly is not. Sadly, not everyone on the forums comes to discuss issues in good faith.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2020-10-29 at 10:32 PM, bad4youLT said:

I guess you havent heard on whats going on in Destinys 2 cruisable and Trails nore had expirienced any "hard core" pvp players and their colorfull language .

OMG OMG i just HAD TO LOG IN so that i can reply to you. You sound like a person who cant handle the harshness of what we call competitiveness. You literally have no other defense against PvP other than, "oh i want to live in my safe bubble and not have to deal with competitiveness and toxicity" .

"had expirienced any "hard core" pvp players and their colorfull language"
Somebody can have this experience and be ok with it. I mean IT IS competitive and hardcore, what do u expect? Even in other competitive areas such as sports or even cooking, people are more angsty and "toxic" compared to alll the other casuals. That's just the way it is bro. There is no such thing as a competitve hardcore platform that is like "kindergarten" level kind of friendly. I think even in chess there might be some cases of like players raging and being toxic XD. The sooner you realise and learn to adapt with this the better.

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On 2020-10-30 at 1:57 AM, Sevek7 said:

Okay, I think I understand your answer. But it's a yes or no question, and instead of saying yes or no, you keep bringing up examples. So you can understand why I'm confused. Here is the question again: (3rd try now)

I'm now going to answer it for you, because I think I understand your answer.

"No, the introduction of PvP into any game will 100% undeniably destroy the entire community, see for example games like Fortnite, Destiny 2, CSGO, Mobas, CoD, BTF, PoE."

I think this is what you are trying to say, if I got it wrong, please correct me [remember, it's a yes or no question, so make sure to correct that part too.]

There's just one problem. I have played a lot of Counter Strike, Call of Duty, and Battlefield. I've thoroughly enjoyed them and made a bunch of friends, we all had a great time and there was very little toxicity. I also recently tried Destiny 2, another of your examples. In Destiny 2, I played several PvP matches. Nobody in the match acted toxic in any way. So, I disagree with your answer to the question. I think it's possible to have PvP introduced into a PvE game without it destroying the community. Of course, player maturity will have a lot to do with it too, but I have faith that Warframe's playerbase is mature enough to handle it. [After all, the players who don't want to do PvP can just... not do it!]

 

 

what do you and other players mean by "Destroy the community"? A community can be sort of toxic but that doesn't mean it's "destroyed" and on that note i just want to mention, whenever you get into the "competitive" level there is always some form of salt and toxicity because that's the way it is. If you play any multiplayer games with pvp but u dont encounter any toxicity or salt, it's probably just because you are playing casual with people who just wanna have fun rather than fight for (glory, honor and rewards)

 

I for one would definitely love to see PvP in warframe. To me if there is no PvP, i'm just wasting my life tapping away at keys and swinging my mouse around. What's the point of all that PvE grinding? "HuHu im max level" ok, what exactly does that translate into? It doesnt amount to anything, there is no value at all. The only thing worthwhile i guess is maybe setting like records? Like in Destiny i think there are time records for certain raids.

This is my take on it. What do u and others think? And yes obviously from the way im replying its pretty obvious im a player who cares about ranks and recognition and like things in game having a "meaning"

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7 hours ago, detahaven said:

what do you and other players mean by "Destroy the community"? A community can be sort of toxic but that doesn't mean it's "destroyed" and on that note i just want to mention, whenever you get into the "competitive" level there is always some form of salt and toxicity because that's the way it is. If you play any multiplayer games with pvp but u dont encounter any toxicity or salt, it's probably just because you are playing casual with people who just wanna have fun rather than fight for (glory, honor and rewards)

 

I for one would definitely love to see PvP in warframe. To me if there is no PvP, i'm just wasting my life tapping away at keys and swinging my mouse around. What's the point of all that PvE grinding? "HuHu im max level" ok, what exactly does that translate into? It doesnt amount to anything, there is no value at all. The only thing worthwhile i guess is maybe setting like records? Like in Destiny i think there are time records for certain raids.

This is my take on it. What do u and others think? And yes obviously from the way im replying its pretty obvious im a player who cares about ranks and recognition and like things in game having a "meaning"

Haha yes I was using "Destroy the community" to generally mean the entire community becoming 100% toxic 100% of the time. You're right of course that there is always some level of toxicity possible anytime when players interact. Generally speaking, toxicity arises when one player can hinder another player's progress. This is why we see toxicity often in PvP, but also in PvE that requires cooperation. For example, using crowd control abilities in Hydron results in toxicity, leaving endless missions when others want to stay, making mistakes in Eidolon hunting, equipping the wrong relic / dragon key, etc... As far as I can tell, the only way to reduce toxicity completely is to make 100% of the game so unbelievably easy that it's entirely impossible for another player to hinder your progress. 

I also like PvP in warframe. But I wouldn't go as far as you to say that there is no point to the PvE grinding. Much of the game is designed to be about collecting things, and many people enjoy that! There's no reason to tailor the game to any specific type of player, it's big enough for both :)

Personally, I don't care about ranks and recognition. I just want to have fun with friends! 

 

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9 hours ago, detahaven said:

OMG OMG i just HAD TO LOG IN so that i can reply to you. You sound like a person who cant handle the harshness of what we call competitiveness. You literally have no other defense against PvP other than, "oh i want to live in my safe bubble and not have to deal with competitiveness and toxicity" .

"had expirienced any "hard core" pvp players and their colorfull language"
Somebody can have this experience and be ok with it. I mean IT IS competitive and hardcore, what do u expect? Even in other competitive areas such as sports or even cooking, people are more angsty and "toxic" compared to alll the other casuals. That's just the way it is bro. There is no such thing as a competitve hardcore platform that is like "kindergarten" level kind of friendly. I think even in chess there might be some cases of like players raging and being toxic XD. The sooner you realise and learn to adapt with this the better.

Then I come back from work and tired I want to relax and ease up , thats is something I cannot do then someone decides to yell at mic or said he had some fun with my parrents if you catch my meaning .

 

I have thinck skin , I been army , this however doesnt excuse competative games community behavior .

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13 minutes ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

You're right, and this applies to competitive PvE such as 6x3 eidolons and optimized SE farms. Toxic competitive behavior is hardly limited to PvP.

Yes, a while back somebody on this forum linked a bunch of studies on toxicity in gaming. I don't have the links anymore, but they were a very interesting read! Essentially, researchers found that toxicity was prevalent in any situation where one player's actions could impede the progress of another player. So, PvP is obviously one situation where this happens often, since players are in direct competition. Challenging, teamwork-oriented or time-restricted PvE is another. [One time I brought the wrong amp to an Eidolon hunt by accident, apologized profusely, but still had to put two of the other players on ignore!]

I've always wondered about this reputation Warframe has for having the "best gaming community." I don't think it's an accident that the "best gaming community" is for the game where 99% of the content is extremely easy. It seems to me that by making the game so easy, player progress is generally unhindered by the lack of skill / knowledge on the part of other players. Of course, malevolent hindering still exists (refusing to enter extraction zone, etc...), but this is generally rare since it impedes the progress of both players. I suspect that if DE changed course and made the game challenging, the "best community" would reveal its true colours.

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On 2020-11-17 at 10:12 PM, bad4youLT said:

I have thinck skin , I been army , this however doesnt excuse competative games community behavior .

 

23 hours ago, Sevek7 said:

Yes, a while back somebody on this forum linked a bunch of studies on toxicity in gaming. I don't have the links anymore, but they were a very interesting read! Essentially, researchers found that toxicity was prevalent in any situation where one player's actions could impede the progress of another player. So, PvP is obviously one situation where this happens often, since players are in direct competition. Challenging, teamwork-oriented or time-restricted PvE is another. [One time I brought the wrong amp to an Eidolon hunt by accident, apologized profusely, but still had to put two of the other players on ignore!]

I've always wondered about this reputation Warframe has for having the "best gaming community." I don't think it's an accident that the "best gaming community" is for the game where 99% of the content is extremely easy. It seems to me that by making the game so easy, player progress is generally unhindered by the lack of skill / knowledge on the part of other players. Of course, malevolent hindering still exists (refusing to enter extraction zone, etc...), but this is generally rare since it impedes the progress of both players. I suspect that if DE changed course and made the game challenging, the "best community" would reveal its true colours.

On 2020-11-17 at 12:29 PM, detahaven said:

OMG OMG i just HAD TO LOG IN so that i can reply to you. You sound like a person who cant handle the harshness of what we call competitiveness. You literally have no other defense against PvP other than, "oh i want to live in my safe bubble and not have to deal with competitiveness and toxicity" .

"had expirienced any "hard core" pvp players and their colorfull language"
Somebody can have this experience and be ok with it. I mean IT IS competitive and hardcore, what do u expect? Even in other competitive areas such as sports or even cooking, people are more angsty and "toxic" compared to alll the other casuals. That's just the way it is bro. There is no such thing as a competitve hardcore platform that is like "kindergarten" level kind of friendly. I think even in chess there might be some cases of like players raging and being toxic XD. The sooner you realise and learn to adapt with this the better.

This is the reason a good chunk of people including me rarely use forums and are more likely to use Reddit, because people here are constantly looking to argue with each other, you can't post ANYTHING without someone coming and trying to prove you wrong, i have talked about cosmetic bugs someone tries to defend it, i have talked about dmg number bugs someone tries to defend it without even testing it! u don't agree with someone sure don't agree but being This aggressive and not understanding! understanding we all want what is best for Warframe is the core problem here, and besides non u us get a speak in the matter if something is obviously harmful DE won't add it end of story you don't need to start arguing here, we can disagree without battling it to the death you know! 

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9 hours ago, Xikto said:

 

This is the reason a good chunk of people including me rarely use forums and are more likely to use Reddit, because people here are constantly looking to argue with each other, you can't post ANYTHING without someone coming and trying to prove you wrong, i have talked about cosmetic bugs someone tries to defend it, i have talked about dmg number bugs someone tries to defend it without even testing it! u don't agree with someone sure don't agree but being This aggressive and not understanding! understanding we all want what is best for Warframe is the core problem here, and besides non u us get a speak in the matter if something is obviously harmful DE won't add it end of story you don't need to start arguing here, we can disagree without battling it to the death you know! 

Forums are a place for discussion, if you dislike that then you're probably looking for an echo chamber... like reddit.

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