(PSN)Hopper_Orouk Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Listen, i'm open for more customization options, but ever since this new feature got released, and all i ever hear from players on forums is this: in rework threads: "too much work for an ability that's going to get subsumed out most of the time", "so if you subsume this ability, then this synergy is useless" "no more reworks, when helminth exists" this is really saddening to read, how closed minded some people are. and how limited they've become even when something as innovative as mixing and switching abilities got introduced. they think NO Abilities should get reworked anymore because you can just subsume it and get a better one they think SYNERGY is awful and we should have warframes with 4 sperate abilities with no complimentary or combos whatsoever (does that even sound fun?) and also to make room for the helminth to subsume an ability without missing out on it's synergetic buff it gives. and then this creates this scenario where if players don't want reworks anymore, then should we do them? the helminth sadly is a negative aspect in the relationship between the players and DE, the better your subsumed warframe got, the less reason for it to rework it and the less reason for DE to care. the helminth was supposed to be the center of all rework ideas, but oh well! what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumtulpe Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said: what do you think? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trst Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 What? Players still want reworks, some players think the existence of Helminth means no reworks ever even with zero evidence of such claim. There is nothing new here just yet another addition to the game that some people jump to wild conclusions regarding it with zero rhyme or reason and a sprinkle of doomsaying from "content creators". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)GearsMatrix301 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Couldn’t be more wrong. Helminth has the capability to help DE improve the game, but DE themselves made it clear that they had no intention of using the data from Helminth to do that. So any ruination of DE is strictly on themselves alone, and not Helminth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_R_o_g_u_e_ Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 You have literally no idea what you’re talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpicyDinosaur Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 What everyone else said. You're wrong and misinformed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 There's more danger from people shooting down reworks calling things "perfect already" like with Loki than Helminth causing them to stop reworking things. Switch Teleport is still not a good ability and no amount of "But but but-" will fix that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisu9 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 I think we need a global ability rework, we need to struggle and think "I have to abandon this ability for this one" but in this situation every ability are good or have something unique on this warframe that make it good in a way so we have to make a difficult choice, and not the usual "loki's decoy ? what is this S#&$" and remove it for something REALLY usefull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)robotwars7 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 the problem with Helminth in regards to reworks is that it DOES give DE an excuse should they choose it, to avoid doing reworks. they haven't done this yet, but Helminth is still new, and the only reason Xaku got looked at is because he's new and in-vogue as well. it's the oldest and most neglected frames like Zephyr, Valkyr and Nyx that will suffer, because 99% of people will have just subsumed something else onto them to make them viable, thus eliminating the reason for DE to bother going to the trouble of reworking them. it could have been argued once that reworks would still have a place due to the majority of players not being able to access the helminth system until later, and thus reworks would be needed to help lower MR players have a more powerful frame until such a time as they can use Helminth to their own liking.. but then DE decided "nah, MR8 will do", and now anyone who can endure the Entrati Grind can get Helminth for themselves, even before they reach a point where they fully understand the frame they play as. one also has to bear in mind now that any reworks of frames have to not only address the frame itself but also the subsumable ability of that frame: they can't simply not rework subsumable powers, or they'll become too weak and irrelevant. and people will inevitably ask "you reworked this frame, but what about their X ability that I've put on other frames?". it seems to me that DE are likely to once again bite off more than they can chew, as now they have to balance some powers twice over: once to make it work for the intended frame, and once again to make it a power worth subsuming that frame for. I hope I'm wrong and that we start seeing some older frames getting tweaked, but if just subsuming another frame's ability onto a bad frame solves some or most of their problems, then what reason is there for DE to pull their finger out, when the player can "rework" the frame themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)TrollyThyTrinity Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Nice Try , it’s what you think and doesn’t have no impact on the scope of things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakhul Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 1 hour ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said: this is really saddening to read, how closed minded some people are. and how limited they've become even when something as innovative as mixing and switching abilities got introduced. Only those who made the spreadsheets of which abilities are best, are to blame for that kind of thinking. If you focus too much on what is best in slot for each warframe, the helminth experience is completely lost. In my opinion, it was created to allow players to experience different combinations and play styles with their favorite warframes. Having some popular and vocal person of the community, coming with a spreadsheet listing what is best and what is not, completely undermines the whole point of the helminth, as it shows others which abilities are "best" for each warframe, making the rest "not good" for that specific warframe. If you focus too much on that, you wont have any fun with the helminth. Heck, i been goofing around with abilities that do not do any synergy at all with some warframes, and i get very unexpected and fun results, and to me is all that matters. ofc i have my "good" setup that is also fun to use, but i like to test stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernaut1 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 so ummm...what WF actually NEEDS a rework right now anyway? Please dont say 'Hydroid"..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)EPOSSTYLE Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 It only has to end with being fun and scaling damage however hard that is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyus Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Nice Meta rant. I have not seen anywhere stated by DE that they are going to take Helminth synergy into consideration when creating new frames. Helminth is a separate and optional system, if you don't like it, don't use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltage Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 40 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said: so ummm...what WF actually NEEDS a rework right now anyway? Please dont say 'Hydroid"..... Inaros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevoisvevo Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said: Couldn’t be more wrong. Helminth has the capability to help DE improve the game, but DE themselves made it clear that they had no intention of using the data from Helminth to do that. So any ruination of DE is strictly on themselves alone, and not Helminth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Tormex_ Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said: so ummm...what WF actually NEEDS a rework right now anyway? Please dont say 'Hydroid"..... Oh definitely Davy Jones, Tentacruel, and Captain Smek Smek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodi1600 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 4 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said: the problem with Helminth in regards to reworks is that it DOES give DE an excuse should they choose it, to avoid doing reworks. They have stated they will focus on doing general changes to game and reworking some frames of their picking in last dev stream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzureTerra Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 This implies the player base wasn't borked to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldain Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said: so ummm...what WF actually NEEDS a rework right now anyway? Please dont say 'Hydroid"..... Loki. Decoy and Switch Teleport are worse than pre-rework Tesla Orbs, lump them into a tap/hold ability on his 1st slot (with a few buffs to them) and give him a real 3rd ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BahamutKaiser Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Hyperbole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DoctorWho_90250 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 4 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said: so ummm...what WF actually NEEDS a rework right now anyway? Please dont say 'Hydroid"..... Zephyr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DoctorWho_90250 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 6 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said: what do you think? I do think DE bit off more than they can chew and made the nightmarish goal of balancing the frames worse by adding a whole new factor into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hopper_Orouk Posted October 28, 2020 Author Share Posted October 28, 2020 9 hours ago, _R_o_g_u_e_ said: You have literally no idea what you’re talking about. 8 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said: What everyone else said. You're wrong and misinformed. Please inform me because i'm pretty sure the sentences i just quoted are actual quotes from actual players on this forums that i interacted with Some of them even commented on this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hopper_Orouk Posted October 28, 2020 Author Share Posted October 28, 2020 9 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said: Couldn’t be more wrong. Helminth has the capability to help DE improve the game, but DE themselves made it clear that they had no intention of using the data from Helminth to do that. So any ruination of DE is strictly on themselves alone, and not Helminth. Aren't you the one who didn't want a buff or a change for Protea's temproal anchor because you can easily replace it with something else? This is literally my entire point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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