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MR 30 Test


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8 hours ago, B4HEK said:

Honestly, to all people who keep talking: "Oh you are not experienced enough, go train your skill!"

What skill, jumbos?! Pressing 2 buttons and jumping around until everything dies?

Nope. The skills and experience is in reference to you being able to figure out what you need to succeed. Adapting to the scenario. 

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On 2020-10-28 at 3:46 AM, B4HEK said:

Now, there are 3 options:

1)Excalibur desperately needs rework.

2)I am screwed noob, who don`t know how to play as excal after 3000+ hours maining him.

3)MR30 test should be a little more opened to ALL frames, not only the invisible/nuking ones and those who deal percental damage.

Now, MR30 noob said what he wanted to.

As someone with over 6500 hours of in-mission playtime, 80% of which are played on Umbra and regular Excalibur, I definitely agree that Excal needs a rework. But MR30 test has nothing to do with it. The test also has nothing to do with skill, so I won't advice to "git gud" or whatever.

You may forget about any abilities and use a melee weapon with a good build. That will be enough.

 

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1 hour ago, Xaero said:

The test also has nothing to do with skill, so I won't advice to "git gud" or whatever.

You may forget about any abilities and use a melee weapon with a good build. That will be enough.

The skill is knowing what loadout to use and applying it. Applying knowledge is considered part of a skill. 

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On 2020-12-31 at 3:55 AM, B4HEK said:

So, perhabs now i should just delete Warframe, because 5K+ hrs (3200+ as Excal) has proven to be giving no real mastery, experience and "skill"... 🤣

yes, you just do that...

but maybe you should only get your thumb out of your behind and think about how to beat this test for a minute? the test is easy - more so than some others before has been, so stop your whinning. if the test would be 'that hard' for real, why are there so many MR30 around? it's because they done something normal, not some extraordinary odeal of a test!

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1 hour ago, fr4gb4ll said:

yes, you just do that...

but maybe you should only get your thumb out of your behind and think about how to beat this test for a minute? the test is easy - more so than some others before has been, so stop your whinning. if the test would be 'that hard' for real, why are there so many MR30 around? it's because they done something normal, not some extraordinary odeal of a test!

I disagree with this. For the last 7 years, ive used the same loadout to do every mastery test since 3 with no practice, no knowledge of what the test is, and succeeding on the first try. Mainly because the tests are relatively easy, require no skill, and are truly mastery of nothing. None of the tests do anything meaningful in advancing the players skills like one would think they should.

I failed this test hard the first go round simply due to running out of air. Using excal/lanka/akbolto/glaive. I also choose not to spam his 4.

I switched to nova/acceltra/viper wraith/glaive prime. Took me a week to finally beat that test on practice. Kept running out of air on the final bosses. I did the test with mesa and completed it on the first try because its super cheese. I certainly wouldnt call it normal.

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22 minutes ago, Faulcun said:

I disagree with this. For the last 7 years, ive used the same loadout to do every mastery test since 3 with no practice, no knowledge of what the test is, and succeeding on the first try. Mainly because the tests are relatively easy, require no skill, and are truly mastery of nothing. None of the tests do anything meaningful in advancing the players skills like one would think they should.

I failed this test hard the first go round simply due to running out of air. Using excal/lanka/akbolto/glaive. I also choose not to spam his 4.

I switched to nova/acceltra/viper wraith/glaive prime. Took me a week to finally beat that test on practice. Kept running out of air on the final bosses. I did the test with mesa and completed it on the first try because its super cheese. I certainly wouldnt call it normal.

I think that's good. The test to prove you're a true master, in essence, should be more challenging than any other you've faxed. It should force you to adapt and change your way of playing just a bit in the least. 

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2 hours ago, Faulcun said:

Mainly because the tests are relatively easy, require no skill, and are truly mastery of nothing. None of the tests do anything meaningful in advancing the players skills like one would think they should.

So... here's a question;

The complaint you seem to have is that you were able to just breeze through the previous tests using the same loadout because they were easy and you learned nothing, and now, with MR30, you are presented with a test that requires you to actually think about your loadout because it's not easy, you run out of life support because you can't kill things fast enough, and the test made you fail... correct?

Then isn't that literally the situation that everyone is telling you? That you need to actually apply some knowledge, that you can't breeze through it, that it isn't a test where you can brute force it with no knowledge and you actually have to learn something?

Even if that 'something' you have to learn is that specific missions are much, much easier to do if you change your Warframe and use its powerful abilities?

Why do you think there's 45 different Warframes in the game? Why is Mastery Rank defined by how many unique things you level, and not by how many things you kill, or how much time you've put in?

The game is telling you 'use more stuff'. It's telling you 'diversify your builds'. You can main something all you like, I have around 29% combined time on just Zephyr and her Prime, and I'm actually on this thread from weeks ago showing that the Test can be done with Zephyr and a couple of good weapons. But I would have had an easier time of the test if I'd taken Saryn, or Mesa, or a dozen other frames that have amazing kits and synergy with their loadouts.

Becoming a better player in Warframe is learning when to use the most appropriate frame, rather than your preferred frame.

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7 часов назад, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 сказал:

I think that's good. The test to prove you're a true master, in essence, should be more challenging than any other you've faxed. It should force you to adapt and change your way of playing just a bit in the least. 

This "test" is only challenging for specific frames\loadouts, in Octavia you can just afk it as long as you want...

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5 часов назад, Birdframe_Prime сказал:

Becoming a better player in Warframe is learning when to use the most appropriate frame, rather than your preferred frame.

With that logic you can main Octavia or Saryn... Other frames are just nothing compared to their DPS\KPS

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for me it was easy. walk in the park after couple of times of training, i used mesa prime with eclipse infused on it giving 300% additional damage and 75% protection.

I cheesed the 2nd, 3rd (eclipse)  and 4th power, and used catchmoon who benefit from the additional damage.

The good thing about mesa is that you can use the peacemaker even when gliding or jumping, which save time.

For close combat, the 2nd power helped a lot together with adaptation mod.

Make sure you have preparation mod, just in case you die, you re spawn with full energy.

Oh,, one more important factor: i used wyrm, it kicked enemies outside the map.

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1 час назад, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 сказал:

And thus having knowledge to figure out what is effective is important. 

But if i want to do ANY part of game as Excalibur, then i am a noob...

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1 minute ago, B4HEK said:

But if i want to do ANY part of game as Excalibur, then i am a noob...

No, you're not wanting to do ANY part of the game as excal. You want to do ALL parts as excal. Not everything in a game is going to be equal. You can't expect everything to right for excal. You gotta accept that you gotta adapt sometimes. 

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Только что, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 сказал:

No, you're not wanting to do ANY part of the game as excal. You want to do ALL parts as excal. Not everything in a game is going to be equal. You can't expect everything to right for excal. You gotta accept that you gotta adapt sometimes. 

Then screw it, i`m a headcracked Excal-mainer 🤣

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21 hours ago, Faulcun said:

I disagree with this. For the last 7 years, ive used the same loadout to do every mastery test since 3 with no practice, no knowledge of what the test is, and succeeding on the first try. Mainly because the tests are relatively easy, require no skill, and are truly mastery of nothing. None of the tests do anything meaningful in advancing the players skills like one would think they should.

I failed this test hard the first go round simply due to running out of air. Using excal/lanka/akbolto/glaive. I also choose not to spam his 4.

I switched to nova/acceltra/viper wraith/glaive prime. Took me a week to finally beat that test on practice. Kept running out of air on the final bosses. I did the test with mesa and completed it on the first try because its super cheese. I certainly wouldnt call it normal.

you disagree? and you still wonder why you failed in a slightly more difficult test?

...

sure, you're right about the other test also being so easy that is rarely mattered what loadout one would use (i also used the same one for most tests of those 30, even the MR30 too) but that doesn't make the last test much harder in comaprison. it's just a survival with some more variating rules, nothing more and i could do it easy with my default tank frame and a melee weapon (only, i had other weapons too, but melee-tanking was the easiest way to beat this). if you're only fixated on the meta-build you used for everything else, ofc you'll get into trouble IF this build isn't suited for the mission at hand - which in my case wasn't (if i could call my tank the meta i always use...). others had used their 'meta' nuker for this with similar success (meaning with spare time at the end).

so, i stay with my statement: this was easy - even though it was only because i did it with a fitting set of frame and weapon(s) but that should be obvious for anyone who got this far in the game...

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14 hours ago, B4HEK said:

With that logic you can main Octavia or Saryn... Other frames are just nothing compared to their DPS\KPS

I would say that a good Baruuk build is easily equal to these, but no, you've missed the points I made there. That is entirely not the logic I was making.

Point the first is this: Kills and Damage are only one part of Warframe.

For example, one of the best ways to play a mode like Interception or Defection is to not bother killing the enemies at all until necessary. The aim there is Control, at which other frames are much more suited to the function because the more you kill, the more fresh enemies spawn. Limbo, Vauban, even a Frost can be more useful there because of the large area lockdown abilities they have.

Stealth is another one, where on some Grineer maps it's possible to evade the sensors with a bright pink Rhino, the objective is massively easier and faster on the Corpus tiles with a Loki or Ivara.

Point the second, though, is that you've missed is the specific meaning of the part you directly quoted:

Learning when to use a different frame over your preferred frame.

Why do I have 29% of my time on Zephyr? Because I prefer Zephyr. Why only 29% when I believe that the game is genuinely easy enough, with the right builds, that I beat the MR30 test with her? Because it's often appropriate to use another frame.

I learned that lesson. It's not that you can't do everything with one frame, it's that you shouldn't. Diversify for effect when you struggle.

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57 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

For example, one of the best ways to play a mode like Interception or Defection is to not bother killing the enemies at all until necessary. The aim there is Control, at which other frames are much more suited to the function because the more you kill, the more fresh enemies spawn. Limbo, Vauban, even a Frost can be more useful there because of the large area lockdown abilities they have.

Nuking is the best CC in the current climate. If they're not alive, they can't do anything AND you get affinity/focus. This is why Warframe is a damage meta game. Only reason CC was relevant long ago was with raids. Why? Because the maps were so large, and there were objectives that required no interruptions. The buttons in the LoR raid was a good example. You needed CC because if you got knocked off your platform, you'd have to start over on the segment (or fail on nightmare). At the time, nuking was not as effective AND you couldn't risk the interruption. In Interception and Defection, it literally doesn't matter if you're interrupted, so killing is the way to go (unless you wanna be lazy or don't need affinity or focus). 

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5 minutes ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

This is why Warframe is a damage meta game.

You're not wrong, but you're also not entirely right.

That's the meta in a lot of places. The meta, however, is a little more malleable than that because it always depends on your goal.

In your specific answer to Interception, if you're running for rewards, such as end-of-wave rewards in Relics or Alerts, the damage meta is no more or less effective than the control method. You are literally trying to get to the end in the most efficient way possible, and in that situation having the enemies completely non-operational is just as (if not more) efficient when you compare the amount of actions you would have to take with different frames to achieve either.

My entire logic in this is that, when you want to be effective, there are other options than just taking your main. In fact, you do touch on this in your answer there; there is a meta, and learning when to use that instead of your main is also the same lesson. You can have a damage main, like Saryn, that's fine, that will (because it's a very large portion of the meta) see you through a lot of the content. But you can also have off-meta mains, and love them.

Learning to take something that is more effective is just exactly that; learning that a meta pick, or non-meta pick, is the answer to your problem instead of trying to bash your head against the wall all the time (Like OP was, in this case).

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5 hours ago, (PSN)Rainbow_Neos1 said:

That's always am option. In fact, it's better to learn many frames and become comfortable with them. 

Yes. That's literally the point I'm making to OP. Because OP posted this thread because they were struggling to use their main in a situation that their main appeared to be (from their own experience) not very well suited for. This was evidenced by the fact that they immediately did not struggle when they switched to another frame.

So... yeah ^^ My work here is done, unless OP wants to come back and contest me on it.

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On 2021-01-01 at 6:31 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

So... here's a question;

The complaint you seem to have is that you were able to just breeze through the previous tests using the same loadout because they were easy and you learned nothing, and now, with MR30, you are presented with a test that requires you to actually think about your loadout because it's not easy, you run out of life support because you can't kill things fast enough, and the test made you fail... correct?

Then isn't that literally the situation that everyone is telling you? That you need to actually apply some knowledge, that you can't breeze through it, that it isn't a test where you can brute force it with no knowledge and you actually have to learn something?

Even if that 'something' you have to learn is that specific missions are much, much easier to do if you change your Warframe and use its powerful abilities?

Why do you think there's 45 different Warframes in the game? Why is Mastery Rank defined by how many unique things you level, and not by how many things you kill, or how much time you've put in?

The game is telling you 'use more stuff'. It's telling you 'diversify your builds'. You can main something all you like, I have around 29% combined time on just Zephyr and her Prime, and I'm actually on this thread from weeks ago showing that the Test can be done with Zephyr and a couple of good weapons. But I would have had an easier time of the test if I'd taken Saryn, or Mesa, or a dozen other frames that have amazing kits and synergy with their loadouts.

Becoming a better player in Warframe is learning when to use the most appropriate frame, rather than your preferred frame.

 

On 2021-01-02 at 2:11 PM, fr4gb4ll said:

you disagree? and you still wonder why you failed in a slightly more difficult test?

...

sure, you're right about the other test also being so easy that is rarely mattered what loadout one would use (i also used the same one for most tests of those 30, even the MR30 too) but that doesn't make the last test much harder in comaprison. it's just a survival with some more variating rules, nothing more and i could do it easy with my default tank frame and a melee weapon (only, i had other weapons too, but melee-tanking was the easiest way to beat this). if you're only fixated on the meta-build you used for everything else, ofc you'll get into trouble IF this build isn't suited for the mission at hand - which in my case wasn't (if i could call my tank the meta i always use...). others had used their 'meta' nuker for this with similar success (meaning with spare time at the end).

so, i stay with my statement: this was easy - even though it was only because i did it with a fitting set of frame and weapon(s) but that should be obvious for anyone who got this far in the game...

No, you both are missing my point all together. Im no slouch at this game. I had no issues killing the enemies. I used to enjoy taking unranked weapons and frames into high level sessions back in the day when a rank 0 weapon meant you had no mod points to apply. Thats why I promised myself id beat it under my own terms, and I did.

You guys give DE too much credit. There is no deep underlying lesson to learn here. Just another poorly designed mastery test.  I can run 16 rounds of ESO with weapons only, maybe not even consistently. But no, I cannot outpace a saryn.

The answer here is not to cheese it with power spam. DE has done nothing to encourage player growth over the years. All they've done is increase power creep to an insane level. And then to see a mastery test where the TTK requirement is so high simply due to a lack of air dops that it ALMOST requires power or melee spam?

No. I adapt, and I overcome. I dont switch to iron skin because I forgot how to take a hit. I dont switch to invisibility because I forgot how to dodge.  I dont switch to spore spam because there are too many enemies. I dont switch to E spam because I cant aim fast enough.

I dont know if you guys noticed or not, but there are no ammo drops in that mastery test. You have infinite ammo. Dying or falling off the map also does not fail you. I would argue that the idea behind that particular mastery test all point away from power spam being the intentional goal.

The path of least resistance is never the most rewarding.

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i did it with mesa, and Eclipse, i modded everything for virul, and i also took a status plague kripath with virul in a case a high level nox shows up, i also spent a few extra minutes at the end of each wave killing additional enemies and pilling up extra life support for the later rounds, just remember to kill most enemies in the center of the map and only go in the center to collect life support, and only collect what you need, try to keep it above 50 % with a large pile of life support on the ground before hitting the tower to start the next wave, it might take you you a few tries to get a good rhythm down, but once you have it the test is actually really easy, just remember to keep all abilities up, and kill everything as fast as possible, and remember to watch your map so you can see where all the enemies are so you don't only kill enemies than are in one direction, you need 360 degrees of killing power, especially the guys behind you, move around the outsides of the room so you don't pick up too much life support, that would end up wasting it, think of it like a normal survival mission if someone goes around using all of the life support towers you won't be able to stay very long because you will constantly be struggling to keep life support up, use only what you need, save the rest for emergencies 

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