Jump to content

I'm finding the Nihil boss fight unnecessarily stressful


Recommended Posts

I love that there are Tenno who really enjoyed this fight. That's pretty cool.
I've seen Tenno who thought the fight was so easy that it was impossible to fail. (I have to disagree on that.)

Hand on heart, I suck at platforming. I get around the games tile sets at reasonable speeds, but that is a hard won skill from repetition; learning the tiles; and understanding the mechanics of the game. This is a me problem, I don't blame anyone else for it, and am happy to take the time to git gud. For example, the final part of Octavia's Anthem took me just under 3 hours because I suck at platforming, and the jumps weren't things I'd practiced the hell out of in the regular game. Even the first stage of The Glassmaker I potatoed out, and fling my 'frame into the void three times (and thus failed three times) before I got the hand of it.

Back when I was working my way around the system chart, the Ambulas and Kela De Thaym fights had added stress to them because they required me to expend a limited resource for each attempt. To mitigate that stressor, I took my time, and farmed amnio beacons and and judgement points like a champion. So when I came to git gud at those fights and collect the parts for Trinity and Saryn, each run cost me the same amount of amnio beacons/judgement points but I had a huge stockpile of them. I'd side stepped my problem.

  • Along comes Nihil. It's a platforming thing different from the main game. Mild stress baseline
  • Remembers that I failed hard at platforming in part 1 and could do that again. Mild stress increase
  • But this Nightwave stuff is time limited. Moderate stress increase
  • How time limited? I don't know. Nobody is telling us. MASSIVE stress increase
  • Each entry into the glassmaker costs a limited resource. Moderate stress increase
  • Can I collect a lot of this resource? Nope! Limited to 20 resonance capacity. MASSIVE stress increase
  • Can I replace spent resonance easily? Collecting it isn't hard, but it isn't fast either. In fact it's time gated to 2 per 26 minutes. MASSIVE stress increase
  • So I can make 4 attempts at fighting Nihil per 20 cephalite resonance right? Hell no! The weave conduit exists. I know exactly what the one I found in the crime scene looks like. But I have to spend 5 cephalite resonance just to guess at which of the 4 identical glowing outlines of the weave conduit I'm supposed to jump to... while on a timer. There is no combination of changes I've made to the games graphical options that makes any difference. The patterns on the handle are indistinguishable to me. So with average luck, I'll guess correctly 1/4th of the time. CRIPPLING STRESS ADDED JUST THINKING ABOUT IT.

I don't for a moment think this was on purpose. It's just the combination of all of these things at once. (And one incredibly poorly designed visual puzzle.) But I'm sure I'm not the only one affected this way. I play games to get away from the stress of real life, not to add to it. And for the last few days, I've had to radically scale back my Warframing. Not because all I'm doing is the glassmaker stuff. But just having it hang over me in this state is awful, and playing the rest of the game is just reminding me this is here waiting to be completed.

 

  • Like 11
Link to post
Share on other sites

i agree with you that there are a lot of bad design choices baked into this one that ultimately took away from my enjoyment of what could have been a neat and unique boss encounter. everything you mentioned, coupled with...

  • the fact that his attacks OHKO, but you can't always be looking for the telegraphs since you have to look where you're going so you can land on the platforms
  • the object you throw has no mapped trajectory and an obnoxiously slow travel time that you need to hit--
  • several moving targets--
  • only one of which is relevant/correct, and you'd better hope you have a good memory because--
  • the clues you're looking for were given to you as much as four months ago by this point

ghhhhhhh 😬

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, AConfusedBird said:

i agree with you that there are a lot of bad design choices baked into this one that ultimately took away from my enjoyment of what could have been a neat and unique boss encounter. everything you mentioned, coupled with...

  • the fact that his attacks OHKO, but you can't always be looking for the telegraphs since you have to look where you're going so you can land on the platforms
  • the object you throw has no mapped trajectory and an obnoxiously slow travel time that you need to hit--
  • several moving targets--
  • only one of which is relevant/correct, and you'd better hope you have a good memory because--
  • the clues you're looking for were given to you as much as four months ago by this point

ghhhhhhh 😬

There's a bit wrong with this, let's dissect it. 
- You can stand still for the entire fight with the exception of rolling off the ledge you're on when he uses his vertical swipe. For the other attacks, just double jump. 
- The object you throw simply goes a little higher than it should, aim down a bit.
- There's no memory required for which crystal is relevant, 1 one of them is white, all the others are blue, hit the white one.

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

There's a bit wrong with this, let's dissect it. 
- You can stand still for the entire fight with the exception of rolling off the ledge you're on when he uses his vertical swipe. For the other attacks, just double jump. 
- The object you throw simply goes a little higher than it should, aim down a bit.
- There's no memory required for which crystal is relevant, 1 one of them is white, all the others are blue, hit the white one.

thanks! those things were super obvious and i definitely noticed them when i did the fight, which is why i didn't bother complaining... oh wait. 

i'm glad you had an easy time with the fight but i'd appreciate if you didn't condescend to me. thanks for the tips ig but i already beat the fight so they're no longer helpful. alas.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

 I really don't understand your frustration. You can just get a screenshot of the clues and have a good look at it to get through the minigame. It doesn't change, so even if you can't remember the old ones to spot the them during the fight, you can return to the crime scene and look at them again. Not needed, though, since the crystals have different colors, blatantly showing you which is the right one.

 After you get to the boss, it's just a matter of time, since you DON'T need to go through the clues minigame again. Just click on the glass in front of the statue and you'll get to the fight. The attacks can be easily predicted, and dodged by jumping onto another platform or doublejumping his sweep. I don't know if this happened just for me, but it looked like I could bait his glass attacks by stayin' far from him. If you stay close, he'll attack with his sword. Don't know if this is how it works for everyone, though.

Edited by Tchaikovskies
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, AConfusedBird said:

thanks! those things were super obvious and i definitely noticed them when i did the fight, which is why i didn't bother complaining... oh wait. 

i'm glad you had an easy time with the fight but i'd appreciate if you didn't condescend to me. thanks for the tips ig but i already beat the fight so they're no longer helpful. alas.

Nice, I give advice and this is how you reply. Classy bro.

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, alanww said:

Actually, you do not need to spend Cephalite to re-do the Nihil fight. A new glass crystal thingamajig appears in the investigation scene that brings you straight to Nihil without having to re-do the puzzle.

Wait, what?

*Goes off and does the Nihil fight next go.*

Thank you Alanww.
Okay. This game. I like that they put a shortcut to the fight. But why in the name of the Lotus would a game do that, and not tell you about it? And then let you re-enter the whole damned sequence the way you did last time?

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tchaikovskies said:

 I really don't understand your frustration. You can just get a screenshot of the clues and have a good look at it to get through the minigame. It doesn't change, so even if you can't remember the old ones to spot the them during the fight, you can return to the crime scene and look at them again. Not needed, though, since the crystals have different colors, blatantly showing you which is the right one.

 After you get to the boss, it's just a matter of time, since you DON'T need to go through the clues minigame again. Just click on the glass in front of the statue and you'll get to the fight. The attacks can be easily predicted, and dodged by jumping onto another platform or doublejumping his sweep. I don't know if this happened just for me, but it looked like I could bait his glass attacks by stayin' far from him. If you stay close, he'll attack with his sword. Don't know if this is how it works for everyone, though.

So just spend more fragments to revisit the horrible detective mode, so that's 5 fragments per for .. 4 or 5 of them all because DE made the bad decision to require players remember items from more then 3 months ago.  Yeah sure...

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Hawk1911 said:

So just spend more fragments to revisit the horrible detective mode, so that's 5 fragments per for .. 4 or 5 of them all because DE made the bad decision to require players remember items from more then 3 months ago.  Yeah sure...

What's this rubbish about remembering things from 3 months ago? What are you on about?

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

In the history of action games the torso bosses have always been lame compared to the other bosses...check Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, etc...

But the main problem is the AI

I had Nihil bugged various time (8 to be correct, 2 cicles of 20 cephalites) entering a sword spree without launching bombs...a couple of fight lasted 13-15 minutes and I ended up losing because all platforms were destroyed...then sometimes he launched the bombs far away from me, etc...

When the fight worked, yesterday, it took 2 minutes

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm convinced i was lucky then, as i kinda just stood there. He swung sideways i jumped over it. When he swung down i slightly moved. It was so slow and Telegraphed it was boring. 

When he threw the shards i just grabbed them and jumped at him then threw it. No penalty for falling off after a throw so why not eh?.

It was such a boring fight, i do not understand the difficulty people are having. But i am sorry so many seem to be having issues with him. Maybe they can look at him again, nerf him for normal and give us a harder mode for more rewards?.

Also could it be bugs?, i passed the fight first go but i know DE are terrible with bugs and it screws people all the time.

Edited by (PS4)Mofojokers
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

The taste of people complaining about "time limited" is really starting to get sour. Do I really have to mention that Warframe is one of the few games (I literally can't name another with such a stretched Battlepass) where battlepasses can reach up to a year? If you have trouble to achieve anything in that time, you're not even considered an active player. So why are you complaining? I don't see others spouting at games they don't even play for timed events etc.

Do I also need to mention that back in the day we had exclusive events where the shortest was 24h with exclusive stuff that took half a decade to come back?

Jesus, people really don't know how good Warframe it has. Considering other devs give you basically no time PLUS you have to often even pay for S#&$ like that.

---

With that out of the way, the boss fight was weird, not what I expected, but it's better than other fights that're still in the game. I think the biggest issue is there was no explanation on literally any mechanic, just like the detective scenes, the player needed to find out everything on their own. That's why people died like flies, failed all the time and all in all are angry they started something they had no clue about. 

The reward however, is one of the best rewards we ever received in a long time. No abysmal grind, no unfair timegating through resources etc. it's literally sent to you after completing the fight.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Try turning your settings way down. Hard time platforming can be do to lag. If your playing at sub 20 FPS it’s not going to be easy.

 

I can’t say for sure this is the problem it could be a medical condition that your mind is bad at drawing lines or something. Still maybe it’ll help you.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, AConfusedBird said:

 

  • the fact that his attacks OHKO, but you can't always be looking for the telegraphs since you have to look where you're going so you can land on the platforms

This is true, but less often than it looks. Because unlike the quiz and unlike mastery tests, there's no penalty for falling off a platform. I am pretty sure that if you're holding a glass ball you even get to keep it. Meaning you only need to look where you're going SOMEtimes

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

I think the biggest issue is there was no explanation on literally any mechanic, just like the detective scenes, the player needed to find out everything on their own. That's why people died like flies, failed all the time and all in all are angry they started something they had no clue about. 

I mean... The fight is very obvious if you ever played a videogame in your life.

Here's how my experience went:

I'm loaded into a fight scene;

The boss is in the middle, some crystalls are floating around;

Boss' health is grayed out. A-ha! I need to break crystals to make him vulnurable;

I have no weapons, how do I attack?;

Boss spits out a shard, a marker appears;

I come to the marker, the shard is picked up, a "Throw" prompt appears. Aaaaaahhhhhh, I see;

I throw the shard at a crystal. It brakes;

After a couple of broken crystals boss' healthbar turns vulnurable, I begin to throw shards at him;

 

These mechanics are literally the videogame 101.

 

I knew the game is casual, but hot bloody damn, I never thoght I never thought it had such a cross-over in audience with the match-3 genre.

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, (PS4)Yaleling said:

Okay. This game. I like that they put a shortcut to the fight. But why in the name of the Lotus would a game do that, and not tell you about it? And then let you re-enter the whole damned sequence the way you did last time?

For the last part, I believe they left the possibility to re-do the jumpy-jumpy-platformy-puzzle for people who didn't have time maybe to listen the entire dialogue, as the dumb timed requirement often makes you tunnelvision the objective, missing the dialogue entirely.

3 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

What's this rubbish about remembering things from 3 months ago? What are you on about?

I think that's about the crystals you need to destroy to remove Nihil's invulnerability, only one is the correct one. But to be fair, I'm colorblind so I didn't notice any difference between crystals colors and went at it randomly, and I still succeeded at the first try thanks to the lameness of this encounter.

Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 36 Minuten schrieb WindigoTG:

I mean... The fight is very obvious if you ever played a videogame in your life.

Here's how my experience went:

I'm loaded into a fight scene;

The boss is in the middle, some crystalls are floating around;

Boss' health is grayed out. A-ha! I need to break crystals to make him vulnurable;

I have no weapons, how do I attack?;

Boss spits out a shard, a marker appears;

I come to the marker, the shard is picked up, a "Throw" prompt appears. Aaaaaahhhhhh, I see;

I throw the shard at a crystal. It brakes;

After a couple of broken crystals boss' healthbar turns vulnurable, I begin to throw shards at him;

 

These mechanics are literally the videogame 101.

 

I knew the game is casual, but hot bloody damn, I never thoght I never thought it had such a cross-over in audience with the match-3 genre.

Tbf a whole lot of the player base a) doesn't even #*!%ing play the game anymore and rather sit dozens of hours in the dojo for decorating and sink up to thousands of hours in captura and b) is so used to afk play and basically pushing one button :

That I'm not surprised people have issues.

The fight wasn't difficult for me, it was just weird.. like when they wanted me to remember choices from previous episodes that had literal months between them, though I think there's a mechanic that destroys the wrong ones over time? Because when he started teleport hell for minutes, some chrytsals just disappeared..

It's fine. I'mma check out the fight again if it's possible.. (mainly because I love the orokin, I'm still sad about ballas' current demise..)

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

The fight wasn't difficult for me, it was just weird.. like when they wanted me to remember choices from previous episodes that had literal months between them, though I think there's a mechanic that destroys the wrong ones over time? Because when he started teleport hell for minutes, some chrytsals just disappeared..

I'm sorry, what? What do choices from previous episodes have to do with anything? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 2 Minuten schrieb WindigoTG:

I'm sorry, what? What do choices from previous episodes have to do with anything? 

The flying crystals have items from previous episodes in them and only 1 is correct, the others don't remove his invulnerability

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

The flying crystals have items from previous episodes in them and only 1 is correct, the others don't remove his invulnerability

Huh, really? Interesting, havent noticed any difference in them.

I was just breaking the closest one and assumed the invulnurability was removed by quantity.

I didn't pay much attention, but I think I counted 5 crystals in the beginning, he became vulnurable after I broke 2;

At 2nd phase I think I saw 3 crystals, and again he became vulnurable after 2 was broken;

And at phase 3 I just broke what I thought was the remaining one. Ore maybe it was just the first I saw, and there were other, wrong ones?

Looks like I was lucky for things to play out like this.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's really not that hard. Or stressful. Only the mini quiz before the fight gave me a headache. There are at least two items that look waaay too similar. And I failed 3 times. 

The fight just takes a bit of time to get used to. But really you just have to move a lot and that's it. Unless the boss bugs out like some ppl claimed. I heard that the boss can oneshot spawn kill you. But otherwise it's alright. It's not piss easy like the sergeant and it's not as awfully telegraphed as the Lech krill fight. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Hawk1911 said:

So just spend more fragments to revisit the horrible detective mode, so that's 5 fragments per for .. 4 or 5 of them all because DE made the bad decision to require players remember items from more then 3 months ago.  Yeah sure...

I didn't remember any didn't even hit me that it was old clues I just broke them all until his health bar turned red. Not until after when reading the forum I learned it was clues. I thought it was just shield batteries as so many othere games use to shield bosses.

 

*Edit* The only stress full part for me was that I failed his swing 3 or 4 times so had to use up all my revives so that put me at alot of presure toward the end.

Edited by Emolition
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...