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Necramechs and their purpose.


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  I know this a topic that some people have probably asked/discussed already, but I'm honestly still stumped as to why we should even bother with Necramechs at the moment, save for MR. They serve absolutely no purpose in game, save for being a source of MR and being an overly hyped gimmick to attract new players to the game, akin to K-Drives.

I've asked around in game a through out my "experience" with Deimos, and the most people can say about them in regards to justification is that they're "tanky" and fun. I know that some people enjoy punching things with a mech, or strutting about with a giant gun, but this doesn't really justify their existence in the slightest, seeing that you can just get a gravimag to use giant guns as your warframe, and the thought that they are "tanky" is laughable in my opinion. We have warframes that can tank just as well, if not better (Inaros, Chroma, and Rhino to name a few off the top of my head), in addition to being significantly more mobile than these walking toys.

You're also limited to using them only in open worlds, which makes them even less usable from the get go. It's probable that DE is planning some kind of bossfight involving them, like how we got the gravimags to help with Profit Taker, and Amps with the Eidolons. The issue I have is that there isn't anything like that now, and unlike amps, which have at least some kind of use outside of Eidolon hunts, Necramechs mostly act as a gimmick, and an extremely limited one at that.

tl;dr why should we even bother with them? they seem like a poor excuse to make you talk to the abrasive and vapid characters disguised as a family in the Necralisk.OsiXyAJ.jpg

Edited by Lord-Neox
bully me about my formatting, and I'll tell my mom on you
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I think archguns are originally meant to be much stronger than frame guns. First they gave you the ability to use archguns on the ground with gravimags and then Necramechs which can automatically refill your archguns' ammo reserve.

But archguns are actually not that much stronger than frame guns on the ground, so using Necramechs is mainly because they and archguns are fun to use. I like to yeet grineers away with my Larkspur equipped Necramech on PoE.

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18 hours ago, Nailclipper said:

I think archguns are originally meant to be much stronger than frame guns. First they gave you the ability to use archguns on the ground with gravimags and then Necramechs which can automatically refill your archguns' ammo reserve.

But archguns are actually not that much stronger than frame guns on the ground, so using Necramechs is mainly because they and archguns are fun to use. I like to yeet grineers away with my Larkspur equipped Necramech on PoE.

I suppose that's true, but yeah, Archguns are criminally underpowered comparatively to most meta level ground guns. I do see the benefit in having infinite ammo for them, though one could easily play Protea and achieve the same results, and do so without being restricted to Open Worlds.

 

17 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

Fun.

Like I mentioned in the post, I understand that some people might find them fun, and in some regards, I also enjoy strutting about in a walking tank that makes *way cooler noises than it should be making*, but this justification is moot, as fun is subjective between most people, and some people, myself included, can't really have fun with something that's nothing more than a cheap gimmick to attract new players. I was hoping to get some insight into actual uses these things have over literally *anything else* in a players arsenal

Edited by Lord-Neox
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Its worth mentioning that Necramechs have probably the highest damage output in the game that does not require rivens (Arqubex, or whatever it was called because I forgot.). If anything, they are more than just viable in taking down eidolons.

I think the problem lies not on necramechs not providing a use, but with it a lack of items that can use it. There is nothing really that requires the insane damage output a necramech has, and on top of that, normal weaponry are all just powercreeped through the roof.

K-Drives proves this. It is utterly pointless to make K-Drives compete against archwings. Archwings are aerial. K drives are bound by land and traffic laws essentially. Despite what players think, people still will not use K drives even if DE makes them as fast as archwings. Why? Because K-Drives are bound by land.

K-Drives also proves its use in Deimos. They make a really good mode of transport on caves, which Deimos has an abundance of. They are quite likely the best mode of transport for speeding through cave bounties, and given caves are going to go deeper still in deimos arcana, they may be even more used.

If the same can apply to necramechs, then they need something that can use them (BUT NOT REQUIRE THEM).

Oddly enough, necramechs can walk underwater...

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On 2020-10-30 at 3:31 AM, Nailclipper said:

I think archguns are originally meant to be much stronger than frame guns. First they gave you the ability to use archguns on the ground with gravimags and then Necramechs which can automatically refill your archguns' ammo reserve.

But archguns are actually not that much stronger than frame guns on the ground, so using Necramechs is mainly because they and archguns are fun to use. I like to yeet grineers away with my Larkspur equipped Necramech on PoE.

Archguns were absolutely meant to be so much stronger than normal guns, yes, if you look at the mechanics

In higher level content, I often find normal guns can't put as much lead downrange as I want. My Sybaris guns are constantly reloading, my Supra Vandal has a spool-up and a long reload, my String Wraith is great for status effects but struggles to actually kill, the list goes on. Then I switch to my Archguns and they can just unload hundreds of rounds at a high fire rate with short reloads. Even if they have a lower DPS ceiling, they are just less difficult to use

The other thing is archwings themselves. If you can stomach actually using Archwing in dedicated archwing missions (such as Salacia), you will find they are flying angels of annihilation. Odonata's ult stuns like Rhino Stomp and disarms like Radial Disarm, but comes out on frame 1 and is rather cheap. Itzal's 2 and 3 make him un-targetable, kills tons of enemies, and draws in all the energy they drop to keep the combo going indefinitely. And before the great Blink nerf, could move around the map like the lovechild of Nova and Volt. Combo this with unlimited ammo, and archwings were untouchable

In a vacuum (space puns lol) archwings and Archguns were untouchable engines of destruction. It was only the introduction of gravimags that killed them, by making them compete in a DPS race with "weaker" mods

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Nothing outside of just having fun with them (which applies to everything anyways) and being a source of even more overkill damage (as if we needed more). The only "purpose" they'll have is the inevitable boss fight, quest, and/or general mission type that will have a gimmick that forces us to use them. They'll literally be an Archgun Launcher 2.0.

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they are fun to play around with but they sure aren't the heavy vehicles DE made them sound... actually they are far too flimsy - mostly due to the lack of usefull mods for them and their rather slow movement (all the while being such a good target for enemy fire).

the only role where they shine (a bit) is when you have to defend something while being stationary and then using their 4th which deal a tremendous amount of damage... in a short circle around the then immobile mech.

beside that, i like the idea of mechs. DE sure need to think (or just plainly 'borrow' some of the ideas what 'mechs' are in other games).

generally, the current implemantation of them are:

  • too weak in the basic stats, especially since they are too slow too
  • lacking the variety of mods (especially since the mech has more slots available)... the mods also needs to be buffed quite a bit
  • they should use two heavy weapons in normal mode (not the ulti, this weapon is ok but if there where different option for the stationary weapon, it would sure help - the one present could use some range improvement and the ability a bit of energy/sec reducement... maybe make it similar to embers 4th but energy cost per shot instead). the two guns should be choosable and seperatly firable too (like left button for left, right button for right gun) - this would make the mech feel more like a tank (armor/panzer/whatever) or like a (small ^^) battlemech.
  • for sanity's sake give the tincan a vacuum ability, as basic not as mod - bad enough we have to mod this anywhere at all in a game that is so focused on loot collecting...
  • let us determin how high we jump ourself, thoug it's nice that the mech can jump up high, in its current form this is more hindering the already sluggish movement even more...
  • ...and speaking of the jumping: the energy cost (or better yet the enger pool) should be reworked - either more energy for being a prime target in mid air (seriously, the 'high-ground' advantage in warframe is most often a disadvantage and nowhere else is this obvious as when you play the mech and hover over the ground) or seperate the energy pools for dashing and jumping...
  • ...and speaking of the 'dash': this is also one 'feature' that might looks nice from (very) afar, but during the usual chaos of battle it makes controling the mech as an major threat even more painfull since the damn animation of stopping/stagging is a pain in the backside.seriously, i rather jump up high and then ground-slam the mech when i have to move through the battlefield (and beyond too) then using the dash which further features are also not really usefull in my book.
  • the mechs melee should be either vastly improved, or be modable - bettter yet, let us use AW melees here! as it is now, the damage is too low the attack too slow an on top of it, hitting the target you aimed at is more game of chance than martial exercise.
  • finally, think about changing the ability set. while this is ofc a matter of taste, i only find the 4th ability usefull and the 2nd one sadly necessary the rest is either to cirumstantial or outright useless.

still, i like the bloody tincan, it just feel so underwhelming. funny enough, the worst place to use it is on deimos so far... that's something the devs should have notice during development too, right? best place, btw, i think is the valis and especially the thermal fractures.

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34 minutes ago, SpiritTeA said:

So something being just “for fun” in the GAME is not enough... Seriously people, if you playing games not for fun - you have serious mental problems and need medical care, I’m saying it as doctor.

For something that requires a hefty amount of time investment to build, mod, and rank while also having only three places they can be used at all yeah they sort of need some purpose or justification other than "fun". Unless one derives most of their fun from dealing 10x+ the max hp of any enemy they fight there isn't much else to even do with them.

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paragraphs: get yourself some, please.

Mechs are pretty good when you want an area cleared quickly, assuming you have Guard Mode unlocked. they make the killing competition objective with the grineer a LOT faster to complete, and it just feels awesome to use!. otherwise, they are also pretty fun. more so than K-drives (and with practice you can use the sprint charge to travel just as fast as a K-drive.). my main complaints with the mech are that they should be able to use Arch-melee, and they need either more capacity or more variety of mods to warrant the 12(!) slots they have. 

I'm kind of hoping that since a Mech mesh is in the game now, we might also see Grineer, Corpus and even infested counterparts to them: Corpus Gundams, infested mech monsters, bigger sentient units.. there's a LOT of potential here, but I just don't know if DE will realize it. 

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On 2020-10-30 at 6:03 AM, Lord-Neox said:

I know this a topic that some people have probably asked/discussed already, but I'm honestly still stumped as to why we should even bother with Necramechs at the moment, save for MR. They serve absolutely no purpose in game, save for being a source of MR and being an overly hyped gimmick to attract new players to the game, akin to K-Drives. I've asked around in game a through out my "experience" with Deimos, and the most people can say about them in regards to justification is that they're "tanky" and fun. I know that some people enjoy punching things with a mech, or strutting about with a giant gun, but this doesn't really justify their existence in the slightest, seeing that you can just get a gravimag to use giant guns as your warframe, and the thought that they are "tanky" is laughable in my opinion. We have warframes that can tank just as well, if not better (Inaros, Chroma, and Rhino to name a few off the top of my head), in addition to being significantly more mobile than these walking toys. You're also limited to using them only in open worlds, which makes them even less usable from the get go. It's probable that DE is planning some kind of bossfight involving them, like how we got the gravimags to help with Profit Taker, and Amps with the Eidolons. The issue I have is that there isn't anything like that now, and unlike amps, which have at least some kind of use outside of Eidolon hunts, Necramechs mostly act as a gimmick, and an extremely limited one at that.

tl;dr why should we even bother with them? they seem like a poor excuse to make you talk to the abrasive and vapid characters disguised as a family in the Necralisk.

1) They give access to archwing weapons (for now just guns, but in a stream DE mentioned that maybe also melee will be included) without a cooldown, and switching from frames to mechs is enough quick to make you feel the aw gun as a 4th weapon equiped 

2) Arquebex is one of the strongest damage output in the game, has infinite ammunition and no damage falloff.

3) The mech give you indeed another set of 4 abilities to use in mission, giving you the possibility to change according to your needs and having an Iron skin and a nuke always available regardless of what frame in use.

4) Was stated from DE that necramechs will be deployable in normal missions, it's a work in progress.

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I put all the time and resources into getting my necramech...and its still only like half-way leveled.

Its weak (offensively and defensively). And as for fun? Obviously not for many players. How many Deimos bounties have you been on where nobody used a necramech?

Part of it is that the mods are unjustifiably rare/expensive/hard to get. I have no interest in the grind (or platinum) it would take to make a necramech into something that is at a minimum competitive with average warframes...to say nothing of the strongest ones.

And as the OP suggests, they currently have no primary use...at least archwings have submersible, space, and open world travel uses. That is not to say that I want to spend more time in those clunky necramechs. I'm fine with them being relegated to being a curiosity like K-Drives.

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Honestly I was pretty surprised when they revealed them in the new update and frankly I can't say I'm a fan.

You already have frames that are 10x as tanky and survivable and infinitely more mobile. The only nice thing to come out of this was the Mausolon which is an absolute beast of an archgun but I'd rather use it with a gravi-mag on a Warframe than on a Necramech.

I say this as a huge mech fan in general like I love Titanfall but the execution of mechs in this game is pretty bad.

I don't even like their design either and that's not to slag on the art team I'm sure they had a theme in mind that they wanted to go with but the default Necramech looks like a salt/pepper grinder you bought on a Halloween sale at Hot Topic. I would've preferred a more "traditional" mech design than whatever we got.

Edited by Tricky5hift
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Yeah, your not thinking about the applications. Can you switch frames mid mission? Not everybody plays a tanky frame all the time, the Necramech gives them an alternative. You brought up profit taker as if having more weapons doesn't offer you easier access to the elemental variety needed to strike its adaptive shields, Necramechs bring your weapon variety from 4 to 6, now it's easy to access all 4 base elements without impairing your primary armor breaker. Furthermore, there's no ammo restriction on the Necramechs Archgun, so you don't have to wait for it to reload on armor breaking phases. 

And your right, this has been discussed, the developers are already arranging for Necramechs to be accessed in regular tiles. 

Necramechs are a great addition to the game, and silly arguements like "it doesn't absolutely replace Warframes to the point where you'd never use them instead of the new META" aren't actually making a relevant point. Operators don't replace warframes either, that would be terrible design, they compliment them so both options are used. 

Edited by BahamutKaiser
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9 часов назад, trst сказал:

For something that requires a hefty amount of time investment to build, mod, and rank while also having only three places they can be used at all yeah they sort of need some purpose or justification other than "fun". Unless one derives most of their fun from dealing 10x+ the max hp of any enemy they fight there isn't much else to even do with them.

Necramech + Umbra trivializing any non SP bounty even more. I built my necramech without any difficulties, all resources and standings were gathered for one day. I will farm MUCH longer for another warframe with sh***y nitanin requirements. That’s what I can call completely useless and tedious thing.

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9 hours ago, trst said:

For something that requires a hefty amount of time investment to build, mod, and rank while also having only three places they can be used at all yeah they sort of need some purpose or justification other than "fun". Unless one derives most of their fun from dealing 10x+ the max hp of any enemy they fight there isn't much else to even do with them.

Necramech mods? I never even bothered trying to farm those. At 10% drop chance and at most 6 mechs per bounty (which takes approx. half an hour), you're going to get 0.6 mods every 30 minutes. I was lucky enough to get the shield capacity mod, power range mod and melee range mod (which is completely useless) when I was farming the parts to build my mech, but aside from that I only have the mods which Loid sells. This leads on quite nicely to...

6 hours ago, Cloud said:

2) Arquebex is one of the strongest damage output in the game, has infinite ammunition and no damage falloff.

...except that the ammunition capacity is very finite because of the enormous energy drain on the mech's #4. With neither streamline, continuity nor flow (or whatever the mech equivalents are), I can use it for approximately 10 seconds before my batteries are empty (which by rendering me unable to cast iron skin, also leaves me defenceless).

That said, mechs are just plain fun to use. Sure, they look stupid, but you're protected from most of their ugliness when you're driving one because of the camera position. I actually like using the Phaedra on them - there's something very satisfying about hosing down a hillside with an enormous stream of bullets even though it's nowhere near as murdertastic as the Mausolon. In this case, I do genuinely find the fun of using a mech to be its own reward. No, it's nowhere near as well modded as it could be (something like half the slots are empty)

Of course, I only ever use it on Earth. Deimos is a godawful place with its army of snipers and cliff racer armada; and with the autoexposure changes Venus is actively painful to look at with its blinding nuclear dawns.

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