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Railjack is actually fun to play


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13 hours ago, taiiat said:

it's funny that other Co-Operative games can be setup well enough that Players communicate and work together even without a single word spoken, but according to you Co-Operative play is extremely difficult and complicated to perform.

In fairness, that does depend on what sort of co-op. Monster Hunter, a game that I've found works quite well for this, has been described as 'four soloists playing together' - everyone already kind of knows their role since it's built-into their chosen weapon. Same thing for Overwatch and TF2 (with the caveat of the enemies being players). Railjack's roles are much more discrete, and aren't intuitive like that since every player is equipped for every role.

Still, better communication tools would probably go a long way. Something as simple as a ping would go a long way. One that says 'I'm manning the guns' or 'Repair crew ready' or 'Loaded into the Slingshot - give me a target!' Perhaps even using the Operator calling over comms. We have something like this but A: it can only be sent via the clunky tactical menu and B: it only conveys what you want others to do, not who is where and doing what and C: you need to unlock it first.

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27 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Railjack's roles are much more discrete, and aren't intuitive like that since every player is equipped for every role.

Still, better communication tools would probably go a long way. Something as simple as a ping would go a long way. One that says 'I'm manning the guns' or 'Repair crew ready' or 'Loaded into the Slingshot - give me a target!' Perhaps even using the Operator calling over comms. We have something like this but A: it can only be sent via the clunky tactical menu and B: it only conveys what you want others to do, not who is where and doing what and C: you need to unlock it first.

they are, yes. but, i think the same general gist is there, because the seats are pretty clear designations since they are dramatically different from one another, only the Engineer role is vague at face value, if you ask me.
basically in this case i think it's defined by where you are more than what you brought.

absolutely, Pings are a good quick communication tool. so long as they are granular enough to tell people what they need to know, but aren't so granular that it just gets confusing.
the Squad List icons try to help, but they're kinda small and difficult to read. i also don't remember if that part of the HUD and the Minimap still breaks literally anytime you're in a seat, haven't played a Mission in a while - but if that still hasn't been fixed then like, that's pretty important too.

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6 minutes ago, taiiat said:

they are, yes. but, i think the same general gist is there, because the seats are pretty clear designations since they are dramatically different from one another, only the Engineer role is vague at face value, if you ask me.
basically in this case i think it's defined by where you are more than what you brought.

absolutely, Pings are a good quick communication tool. so long as they are granular enough to tell people what they need to know, but aren't so granular that it just gets confusing.
the Squad List icons try to help, but they're kinda small and difficult to read. i also don't remember if that part of the HUD and the Minimap still breaks literally anytime you're in a seat, haven't played a Mission in a while - but if that still hasn't been fixed then like, that's pretty important too.

This is why I'd like pings/callouts. The seats designate your role, but having the ability to call out what seat you're in would be a great help.

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On 2020-11-11 at 10:27 PM, taiiat said:

that's fine, good Co-Operative games have elements that naturally work together, rather than forcing them. that lets those games do cool things without pulling away from the Co-Operative aspect.

you could be pushing for that, but you're... pushing for a "everyone has to be limited to my level" sort of solution, which is a pretty bland way to go about things.
it's funny that other Co-Operative games can be setup well enough that Players communicate and work together even without a single word spoken, but according to you Co-Operative play is extremely difficult and complicated to perform.

:)

Can you explain to me why there is no fast pace co-operative game about ship managment ?

Its because it sounds good in theory but in practice it doesnt work.

Also you are the one who wants it to be only limited to people on your "level", dont give me such BS reasoning as "if people dont want to boost so much then they just can ignore it" it doesnt work that way, if there is way for pilot to go faster, he WILL go faster even if it makes gunner roles impossible. 

Railjack is supposed to be fundamental part of warframe, it isnt raids that you can just ignore if you dont care about it, which means it has to be balanced around group of random players.

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7 minutes ago, Culaio said:

Can you explain to me why there is no fast pace co-operative game about ship managment ?

It very well can be with a good team even with randoms in public games. I've had multiple instances of very smooth runs with excellent gunners, very thorough engineers, and efficient frontrunners, all working together for a few speedy runs. If people actually know what they are doing and have reasonable equipment, it is a very smooth and fluid experience, very enjoyable, and no chat actually needed. It is not forced though, which is a plus IMO. Any type of cooperation that is forced is not a real cooperation but rather a coercion if used without recruitment chat.

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4 minutes ago, akots said:

It very well can be with a good team even with randoms in public games. I've had multiple instances of very smooth runs with excellent gunners, very thorough engineers, and efficient frontrunners, all working together for a few speedy runs. If people actually know what they are doing and have reasonable equipment, it is a very smooth and fluid experience, very enjoyable, and no chat actually needed. It is not forced though, which is a plus IMO. Any type of cooperation that is forced is not a real cooperation but rather a coercion if used without recruitment chat.

The thing is that its fine now but it wasnt fine before when we could boost much more frequently, back then we had lower base speed but we could pull off multiple boosts in a row, and it was almost puke inducing when pilot decided to boost on tight turn when you were focused on aiming at enemy, it twisted what you seen in front of your eyes very  hard, so much so that you could feel unpleasant feeling in your gut, and no I dont have motion sickness, I was one of players asking for 6DoF for archwing, I had fun playing archwing upside down in open world areas.

multiple boosts in a row were really problematic for gunner.

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On 2020-11-14 at 12:14 PM, akots said:

Any type of cooperation that is forced is not a real cooperation but rather a coercion if used without recruitment chat.

so would you say same thing about any games that require of players to work together to win ?

are you against existence of games like guns of icarus, barotrauma, "we need to go deeper" and other of this type ?

I never heard such stupid argument in my life

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41 minutes ago, Culaio said:

are you against existence of games like guns of icarus, barotrauma, "we need to go deeper" and other of this type ?

Sorry, never heard of any of these. I generally avoid any game that does not have a viable solo option or forces some sort of cooperation by removing, severely restricting, or limiting solo options.

42 minutes ago, Culaio said:

I never heard such stupid argument in my life

OK, whatever you think. I simply try to stick to games with substantial freedom of what to do and that have multiple means to achieve a goal. I don't like when something is openly enforced in a game. For example, Anthem, which is pretty much trash IMHO, does not have a solo open roam mode basically forcing a player in a squad with three other people. Did it do Anthem any good? No, Now, essentially nobody plays it, so I guess, you have to open roam solo even if you would very much like to do it in a squad. Usually, forcing players to do something bites back fast and hard. Hopefully, DE is wise enough to understand this. IMHO, it is absolutely important for player retention and longevity. Must admit, it is completely subjective, some people like to engage with other players at all times. While I am not against it, I think all options should be available.

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9 minutes ago, akots said:

Sorry, never heard of any of these. I generally avoid any game that does not have a viable solo option or forces some sort of cooperation by removing, severely restricting, or limiting solo options.

OK, whatever you think. I simply try to stick to games with substantial freedom of what to do and that have multiple means to achieve a goal. I don't like when something is openly enforced in a game. For example, Anthem, which is pretty much trash IMHO, does not have a solo open roam mode basically forcing a player in a squad with three other people. Did it do Anthem any good? No, Now, essentially nobody plays it, so I guess, you have to open roam solo even if you would very much like to do it in a squad. Usually, forcing players to do something bites back fast and hard. Hopefully, DE is wise enough to understand this. IMHO, it is absolutely important for player retention and longevity. Must admit, it is completely subjective, some people like to engage with other players at all times. While I am not against it, I think all options should be available.

Some of them have a way to do it solo but its not optimal solution, the solution is to use NPC crew, something DE said is coming to railjack.

Guns of Icarus:

Spoiler

 

Barotrauma: 

Spoiler

 

We need  to go deeper:

Spoiler

 

and there are many other games of this type, some 2D others 3D.

 

Anthem wasnt bad because it forced people to co-op it was bad because it had many other problems.

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I didn't care for railjack immediately, but enjoyed it more and more as I leveled up. I'd like to see it tied into the rest of the game a bit more, but I believe DE is already working on that.

I also think it would be cool to have larger scale battles with multiple railjack crews in the same arena.

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16 hours ago, (PSN)reinestarr said:

I didn't care for railjack immediately, but enjoyed it more and more as I leveled up. I'd like to see it tied into the rest of the game a bit more, but I believe DE is already working on that.

I also think it would be cool to have larger scale battles with multiple railjack crews in the same arena.

What role were you doing ?

Sadly most of fun currently is tied to pilot role, once your ship gets really well geared it actually starts to negatively impact fun of other players who have nothing to do since ship pretty much stops breaking and pilot can delete 1/6 of all enemies in one shot.

Before DE starts tying railjack to rest of game they need to address this issue since people wont want to play game mode where they are bored most of the time.

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Railjack is amazing for farming credits/affinity, outside that I tend to not play it eventhough I love it because of the bug that causes doors to sometimes stay locked, it's frustrating when it happens and sucks all the fun out of it.

Also as Culaio said once your ship is fully geared the fun kinda dies out, when I played railjack for the first time with my friends or even random it was some tense action, everyone had to constantly be participating, on both turrets, at the laser, to the battleforge, going into enemy ships, now that I've got a fully maxed out ships all fighters can be cleared in 3/4 minutes and the laser artillery 1 shots everything and I'm often just hoping my team mates just afk because ''ffs just afk so you don't waste my flux'' which is unfortunate.

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On 2020-11-06 at 1:44 AM, Viges said:

Fun is subjective. For some people is was fun, but for me it's absolutely terrible no matter the bugs. Like remove the whole Railjack and just leave archwing and it's tolerable (still not great though). But Railjack - big fat NO. Slow ship with half screen covered and forced micro management - I hate and and hope it stays dead forever.

Agreed lol. 

I dont get whole railjack and why anyone enjoys it, its "fun" for the pilot of the ship if you enjoy shooting fish in a barrel but for everyone else its 'pretend to be useful'. With a good ship theres barely any fires to put out, you wont need rear guns at all, and whoever is in foundry duty will have beyblade flashbacks from all that ripping. At least on some missions you have to go inside facilities with your warframe to do stuff but if the best part of railjack is getting out of that god forsaken ship then that tells a lot. 

But then again I also always hated archwing missions along with everyone else Ive ever met. I dont like being restricted out of my warframes movement and abilities. 

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On 2020-11-17 at 6:11 AM, (PSN)reinestarr said:

I actually played through the whole thing solo.. initially just to learn everything so I wouldn't mess things up for a crew who knew what they were doing. But once I got my stride, I could handle it alone quite effectively.

Well if you play solo and/or always are a pilot you can have quite a bit of fun, though once you get top gear it will become too easy, and crew will have nothing to do.

 

guns of Icarus is kinda something I expected how railjack would be based on how DE was selling this idea to us(well railjack was going to be slight more complex side it was supposed to have energy redirection system but that got removed, also we were supposed to be able to turn on and off mods on the fly but that also got removed), I provided link to trailer in one of my previous posts but here its again:

Multiple ships with player crews can take part in same large battle.

This is much more exciting then what railjack become.

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I had been having fun in Railjack since launch ngl.

- I'm so into the beautiful views, especially looking at the Earth

- It's so reliving shooting down enemies

- I can finally be a Captain instead of travelling with my little buddy ship

Gotta admit my standards aren't that high, I'm here in Railjack just for having fun. :P

Edited by LemonTea19
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I think Railjack was a good idea but implemented it almost the worst possible way.

- Railjack doesn't feel powerful, guns are peashooters and the ship explodes around you from the tiniest prick (even though it's indestructible the effects make it seem fragile).
- Shooting enemies is made to be as annoying as possible. Tiny range, slow bullets and enemies take evasive actions and fly away after the first hit.
- Having to manually craft resources like ammo, energy etc.
- Railjack is slow with only short bursts of speed, bugged sprint meter that drains from just pressing the button even if you stand still and slow regen. Drifting doesn't control well.
- Base objectives with all the moving in and out gets frustrating fast and I don't want railjack anywhere close because of scripted ramsled spawns (these happen even after disabling station or even finishing mission).

When I play Railjack I kill all the fighters with tether first (if I ignore them they fly down below the map making the mission impossible to complete), then beeline to the base objectives and kill the crewships last. Doesn't take that long but I wouldn't call it fun, mostly found ways to avoid actual gameplay as much as possible.

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Good post.

What put Railjack in this sorry state are mainly 2 things:

1. It's another world / system independent of the game's core. It is "another game within the game".

2. It is other abandoned content. DE has us used to "releasing content -> abandoning content -> releasing shiny new content".

Sorry to say this, but DE is in dire need of a new leadership team.

Edited by Awazx
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