Glaive Revisit Workshop

[SteveCutler]

I wish you'd just remove the dual wielding...

[-Lazaroth-]

Add the Wolf Sledge and I'll definitely use it a lot more, such a great weapon! It would be awesome.

[Udoshi]

Great start! However, its not quite good enough:

 

Glaives need 2-3 free(no plat)  exilus slots so you can actually use bounce mods, whirlwind, etc or those mods need buffs to include stats like damage, attack speed, etc to make them worth slotting.

Glaives need the ability to block or melee when a thrown blade is out. Give it a ghostglaive a la pyrana: gunblades will always be superior because you are never 'locked out' of using the weapon by shooting. Glaives are.

Homing mod that adds homing to non homing glaives:. Ie, slap this augment on kestrel to turn it into performing like a cerata, glaive prime, or modern gl

 

Please don't half ass it, make them good in one pass.

 

Relatedly....

Let Wolf Sledge use glaive mods! its criminal you can't slap whirlwind on it!!

Give Shield-Toss weapons the same QOL treatment. Or, better yet, let them use glaive stances?

Exilus mods for Deconstructor and other sentinel guns when?

Can we get a Gunblade+Secondary dual wield mode as well?

Combo fury needs some love and a reason to use it. Exilus candidate? Put it on throwing secondaries? Its kinda bad riht now.

Thanks!

[KaskaMatej]

Will glaives still bounce around randomly, or will the bounces be targeted at the enemies, more chained?

[shut]

43 minutes ago, Upright1 said:

This looks really neat but with these changes, the gun+glaive combo ends up serving no purpose.I suppose it's a cool reference or something but I think it should have an impact on gameplay beyond just looking cool

That's basically the point. Pistol+glaive will continue to look dope af, but it removes the awkward lack of consistency that glaive gameplay had. (The only "inconsistency" remaining is that pistol+glaive will have is autoblock, which I personally think should be applied to most other 1-handed melee weapons as well.)

I'm personally 1000% hyped for this!

[MurderMurderMurder]

Love all of these changes.  The only thing I would love to have added is for thrown glaives to not target dead enemies, destroyed turrets and indestructible objects like the ones that exist on kuva fortress tilesets. 

[Mu_Gera]

1 hour ago, Muxailo said:

Allow Wolf Sledge to use Combo Killer and Combo Fury mods please.

and also make it explode on thrown hit instead on recall

[war_framer_2017]

Lovely changes, great QoL buffs. I hope they also get their stats revisited especially the Falcor, such a great visual & sound design but disappointing killing capabilities (both spam & heavy attack). I personally love the xoris because of his infinite combo, great visual & sound design and the okay damage. I used Cerata in the past to self-damage in eidolon hunting but other than that, glaives are but only an interesting experience for a while.

[xcrimsonlegendx]

My Pathocyst and I thank you.

[(XBOX)not kere]

Hey, kere here. Can y'all change the Zenistar? Its disc is the most useful aspect of the Zeni, and it just feels super shallow. Condition Overload, Healing Return, Weeping Wounds and Blood Rush don't work on the disc, even though it's proc'ing statuses, damaging enemies and keeping a rather consistent combo count. At this point, the disc is really just a viral stick you use after grouping up enemies, either by Nidus' Larva, Khora's Ensnare, Vauban's Bastille or Gauss' new Mach Rush augment. Nothing else. Making these mods work again with the Zeni, even though there's little to no reason why they should've stopped in the first place, would make the Zenistar just that bit more useful and fun. 

The Zeni is still powerful, yes, but with very few and very specific frames; others are better off just using some other melee, like Kronen Prime or Stropha. Why change the base duration from a solid 45 seconds, which everyone liked, to a piteous 10 seconds that nobody wants to invest time into? Even though the duration is stackable, it's not as simple as just throwing out the disc and dealing more damage, which is why people used, recommended and played with the Zenistar in long Survival missions. It would be more useful if the Zeni just had the base 45 second duration back, and could go up to 2 minutes if the user wanted it to. Not limiting the player to whatever bogus system you want them to use is more systematically appropriate, creates space for more diverse setups and/or builds, and effectively reinstates the Zenistar as a useful weapon that is actually WORTH the time you need to invest to simply get the weapon.
Also, why does calling back the Zenistar cost combo counter, the most critical component of its gameplay? It didn't cost future disc duration before the melee changes, it shouldn't cost future disc duration after the fact.
kthxbye

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, Muxailo said:

Allow Wolf Sledge to use Combo Killer and Combo Fury mods please.

[Azvarreyn]

Could you guys also increase the base range of the glaive prime and maybe anything else that has a similar low range? I believe glaive prime has a range of 1.25. Maybe buff it to match the Xoris' which i believe has a 1.5 range?

 

Edit: nevermind, xoris has a 1.3 range according to the wiki. I'd still like a small range increase in general though

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

Cool. Now how about reverting the Xoris nerf. 

[Alexis_Walker]

Still waiting for Ivara's subsumed ability  with Helminth to get swapped from Quiver to Navigator so I can pilot my glaives in true Hayden Tenno style as Proto Excal...

[dorukayhan]

Quote

Cool. Now how about reverting the Xoris nerf.

Aw, I'm ten minutes late with the popcorn.

Anyone want some Ember-cooked popcorn with anti-nerf salt?

[Koldraxon-732]

I like this, put simply.

At length, though, I'd imagine any weapon with a thrown mode deserves this QoL update.
Furthermore, I have a bit of an idea:

Can we pair thrown melees with non-thrown melees, or enable a throwing state for most melees (building with speargun anims and function; impale, slam damage plus maybe finisher due to 'sacrificing' a blade for a time, regarding weapons like Dual Skana)? It would be cool to pair a Glaive with a Skana or a dagger with one.

...That may sacrifice a secondary weapon slot though, but I think it would be worth it. More absurd combos include Glaive Prime + Reaper Prime or Orvius and Skiajati (in the Dax-themed skin), or even Atterax and that one little Grineer throwing mace.

The other idea I have continued to propose is to allow for weapons that are traditionally akimbo types to be usable in this system via holding the reload key to sacrifice 50% clip capacity* for the ability to have a melee with it. Why do I keep proposing this idea? Two reasons:
1: People who want to use a single sidearm without melee can hold reload to opt-out and not drain life support as fast in Survival missions. 2: Throwable sidearms like Spira Prime or Hikou Prime in combination with a Glaive would bring much joy to people who prefer a quieter, but nonetheless lethal, fighting style.

Then there's also the fact that Stances on Glaive+gun is now working; since such a thing was a success, should we suspect any 1 or even some 2H melee weapons (Staff, Scythe, 2H-Katana, and any dual-melee looks viable) being given this same treatment soon (maybe as a Christmas gift)?

[Captain_Rocket505]

I mean cool? I dont use glaives but these sound nice. Though if we are focusing on the glaives they do seem repedative both in function and stat wise. What if each glaive had something else with it, like the falcor could leave a trail of flames as it flies or another glaive when detonated flings shrapnel out. Something to give em more feel besides being throwable 

[Hierarch777]

I built Glaive Prime not long ago. What a coincidence. 

[V45H]

so might i suggest for glaives since they are so iconic to warframe and darksector have a glaive only utility slot that only glaive specific mods can go into so i can not waste a slot on things like number of bounces mods?

[DrinkingRock]

Gotta love the things I didn't know I wanted. I really love seeing a return of the insta-explode (which used to be a 3 mod combo). I can see my glaives getting a LOT more use now.

[Nasheim]

4 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Heavy Attack (aka Glaive detonation) will now do more damage, more consistently! Damage numbers have been increased, and the area-of-effect falloff has been removed, meaning max damage no matter what part of the explosion hits an enemy. This should help encourage use of Glaives’ unique detonation functionality; another option to compliment swinging and throwing the weapon, allowing for massive bursts of damage when needed.

Anything new regarding glaive detonations not benefiting from critical hit chance? As I recall, that was completely borked, explosions don't critically hit no matter what mods you have on.

[Avernal]

4 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Greetings Tenno!

Warframe currently offers 22 different classes of melee weapon for players to choose from, but Glaives hold a special place in the game’s history. First introduced in Digital Extremes’ 2008 title Dark Sector, Hayden Tenno’s unique and vicious playstyle captures the hearts and imaginations of many.

A lot has changed in the twelve years since that game was released: Warframe has gone through many major reworks, including complete melee overhauls, and the addition of a “Glaive + Gun” combo system. With several overlapping systems at play, Glaive gameplay was no longer consistent, working differently depending on how it was used. This revisit intends to combine these two modes, preserving and enhancing the best parts of both.

Many of these changes focus on enhancing the unique gameplay options that a Glaive can offer. We’ll start simple with throwing mechanics, and work our way up:

Heavy Attack (aka Glaive detonation) will now do more damage, more consistently! Damage numbers have been increased, and the area-of-effect falloff has been removed, meaning max damage no matter what part of the explosion hits an enemy. This should help encourage use of Glaives’ unique detonation functionality; another option to compliment swinging and throwing the weapon, allowing for massive bursts of damage when needed.

“Hold throw” mechanics now apply in Equipped Melee mode! When we added the ability to wield a Glaive alongside any one-handed secondary, we introduced a new system for throwing Glaives that was quicker and more intuitive. This modern system for both ground and air throwing has been applied to pure melee mode, making Glaives consistent no matter how they are used.

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In “Glaive + Gun” mode, players must use the melee key to detonate the Glaive while in flight. With only the Glaive in hand, the alt fire button is no longer reserved for your secondary weapon, which allows for added flexibility - press alt fire for a Heavy Attack detonation, or tap melee for a simple recall.

Glaive throws can now be performed while sliding! Tap to perform a regular spin attack, or hold to throw. An added level of flexibility to the Glaive playstyle.

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Throw melee inputs can be “queued up”, one after the other! Also known as “buffering”, this means if you are holding a melee input as the Glaive returns to your hand, you will start charging another throw as soon as possible. With this change, a smooth gameflow emerges: throw a Glaive, hold melee as it returns, catch, release, repeat. 

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Glaives can now be thrown multiple times in a single jump! Limitations to this type of throw have been removed to allow more chained throws.

With all of these improvements, Glaive throwing and detonating should become a more prominent and viable way to use these weapons. But we’re only getting started!

Another feature that makes Glaives stand out from other melee weapons, is their ability to be wielded alongside a one-handed secondary. This “Glaive + Gun” mode is also getting a couple upgrades:

Melee stance combos are now available in Glaive + Gun mode! Using a weapon combo will no longer restrict your melee options and movement, making Glaives even more deadly.

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Glaive + Gun mode now utilizes melee auto blocking when not aiming or firing! This feature introduced in recent melee system updates will now also apply to the weapon combo mode, offering the benefits of actively equipped melee while still keeping your secondary at the ready.

With all these changes combined, we hope Glaive gameplay will feel more fluid, fun and unique. To encourage exploration of these new mechanics, we are also making changes to Glaive Modding options, improving old Mods and introducing new choices for players to try!

For example, the Glaive Mod Power Throw will be getting a major revision...
Old: +0.6m Punch Through
New: +2m Punch Through. On Consecutive Throw: +100% Throw Damage (up to maximum 3 stacks)

This Mod will now be great for players who embrace the “catch and release” playstyle introduced by the changes to melee input queueing.

We also have two new Mods coming, to help modify your playstyle even further… 
Volatile Rebound: 100% Chance to explode on Bounce (Disables Punch Through)

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Volatile Quick Return: -4 Bounce. +100% Blast Radius. 100% chance to explode on Bounce (disables Punch Through).

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Unlike a Heavy Attack, the explosions from these Mods do NOT consume your combo counter. Equip Volatile Rebound to inflict as much chaos as possible from a single throw, or Volatile Quick Return for rapid targeted strikes.

We hope you’re as excited for these changes as we are - coming soon to a public build near you!

Thanks everyone!

Please add a SUPER LIKE button for forum posts. Mere 'Like' does not adequately convey how much I appreciate these changes or how hyped I am for them.

[master_of_destiny]

I appreciate the idea of a rework....but there's a few obvious problems stemming from melee in general here.

 

1) Auto-block is an issue.  If you want to demonstrate it try jumping at an enemy with melee equipped, and watch as you're stopped dead in the air.  Yes, auto-block kills aim gliding.

2) Do you want to do something else while equipping a melee, such as cast spore with Saryn?  Well, you're out of luck.  Auto-block takes priority over any other action.

3) Melee mods on the glaives are a mess.  So, why?  Well, they compete against gunblades and the wolf sledge.  They theoretically have more range...but in practice throwing them is going to kill your combo counter.  Great, you've released a new band-aid mod to fix that....and introduced yet another "required" mod.  It's basically all the problems of primaries requiring serration, so you can wield a very specific melee and secondary.

4) Stance mods do not apply.  Yes, this will supposedly fix that.  I'm reserving judgment, because it's combining a non-starter melee class with a power limited secondary weapon.  I'm hoping that implementation is good.

 

 

The million dollar question, will this get me to care about glaives?  I'm not so sure, but hope to be proven wrong.  What you've laid out falls way short of making me care.  I can equip a heavy blade for raw numbers and prevent staggers.  I can equip a hammer for raw numbers.  I can equip a whip or polearm for raw range.  I can equip a zaw in most other categories.  Glaives, even as changes are outlined, just don't have a niche.  They're warfans 1.0, and the update doesn't outline how exactly they're going to move out of that category.

 

If you do want to give us a reason to care, how about revisiting the zaws, and giving us a glaive that's worth building?  You've already got a required slot for the new baro mod.  Giving us access to one of the zaw effects might make up for that cost, though it would make it hard to choose anything but a zaw.  I'm 100% behind such a move, because it might actually make up for the issues by having this low range monster capable of bringing enemies close enough to be effective, while the throw would remain as a distance take-down.  Otherwise, we're left with the question of why use a mediocre melee weapon when this game is full of excellent ones.

[Urlan]

Hope it works out, though I do find that enemy scaling makes putting on cute gimmick mods too damaging to the weapon scaling to justify a slot. Perhaps if that Exilus slot was added?

[Prof_Blocks_007]

I've been having a lot of fun with my Riven'd Falcor lately, so I'm definitely looking forward to these changes! Particularly the added fluidity with slide throwing, throw queuing, and unlimited in-air throws.

 

2 minutes ago, Nasheim said:

Anything new regarding glaive detonations not benefiting from critical hit chance? As I recall, that was completely borked, explosions don't critically hit no matter what mods you have on.

I can happily say that this was fixed in one of the hotifixes after deadlock protocol  :)