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On 2020-11-06 at 11:48 AM, [DE]Connor said:

Throw melee inputs can be “queued up”, one after the other! Also known as “buffering”, this means if you are holding a melee input as the Glaive returns to your hand, you will start charging another throw as soon as possible. With this change, a smooth gameflow emerges: throw a Glaive, hold melee as it returns, catch, release, repeat. 

This is absolutely perfect for a style to constantly dish out our frisbees.

On 2020-11-06 at 11:48 AM, [DE]Connor said:

Glaives can now be thrown multiple times in a single jump! Limitations to this type of throw have been removed to allow more chained throws.

This was the major limitation that really had me mostly turn down on using Glaives.

Keep the good work, I can't wait to see these changes!

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Having just looked at my modes i see theres a thrown weapons category with 4 mods that i have there may be more, my point is that as others have said glaives do to things normal melee and remote melee attacks and therefore i feel have a weapon exlus to accomodate this extra feature otherwise they are at a disadvantage.

While wolf sledge a two handed hammer and octaganis a shield can be thrown they are straight to and return weapons both of which are far from the design game play of glaives there attacks flow nicely with ther respective stances and i feel don't need extra mods. Only the flights speed would even possibly apply and would we really want to add more forma for the 1 mod?

Used to use glaive prime alot but it and glaives in general seems to be split in to many directions identity wise without enough room for melee standard and thrown. Do you build for its throw or standard held melee? They struggle to be both and end up unused. 

For the most part i don't want exlius on melee in general, it would be more forma more xp grind no thanks its getting to much not fun!

To contradict myself glaives need something to help narrow the gap. Hopefully we will like what comes from the workshop. May the tenno forge masters bring us something good.

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This looks awesome, the only thing I ask can you tune the homing even a little bit, It always feels like I throw it out and like 75% of the time it just comes back in 1 hit despite a whole bunch of enemies in the vicinity. The homing works WAY better in simulacrum where you can make enemies stand still but as soon as you try and do the same thing in a real mission its usually 1 and return. And if you CAN tune the homing to be better please add it to nezha as well.

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On 2020-11-06 at 5:48 PM, [DE]Connor said:

Melee stance combos are now available in Glaive + Gun mode!

I hope that means some of the slower glaives will get at least a slight attack speed buff. The dualweld combo was independent of Glaive's base attack speed, meaning it was the only good way to use them as melee weapons. I am talking about Orvius and Pathocyst here. They are way too slow in their normal combo modes compared to other weapons.

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On 2020-11-06 at 4:58 PM, (PSN)digitalgabeg said:

While you're at it, please consider doing this for gunblades too. Their stances have the same short-vs-long range problem that the glaive stances do, and are more jerky. They would be much easier to use if the normal and hold-forward attacks were never gunshots and the block and block-hold-forward attacks were always gunshots.

Attacking enemies from a range is an issue I've had with gunblade stances before too, since the force of the gunshot ragdolls the target(s). Granted, that can give you some time to damage them while they get back on their feet, but if there was a way to minimize the ragdolling (Even an exilus mod that does so, possibly increasing or helping something else to compensate), gunblade shots would be even better. (Not intending to get too off topic from Glaives though)

 

Which reminds me @[DE]Connor, have you thought about adding a toggle in the options to align the camera to your melee attacks? Currently there's an opposite toggle where your attacks go wherever the camera is pointing, but pertaining to gunblades, aside from the ragdolling (Which limits the damage potential in a single combo string) I have a hard time aiming my shots with the Redeemer as an example.

A toggle like that may take some getting used to, but say you fire the gunshot with your gunblade, the pellets go wherever the reticle is. So if the camera aligns as you prepare to fire, your pellets will travel out in front of you without needing to personally line up the shot. In a fast-paced mission or brief situation, that could be a decent idea in theory (So another enemy or two won't be given a second or two of free time to attack you).

As for the ragdolling, perhaps that could be affected by a menu / Arsenal toggle (For that idea I don't mean a mod slot, more like the safety on a pistol being on or off, that sort of thing!), if not a gunblade exilus mod. I hope those are some viable improvements for gunblades! (Though I think there's a lot of other great feedback in the thread for future melee workshops too)

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4 hours ago, TTraw said:

I hope that means some of the slower glaives will get at least a slight attack speed buff. The dualweld combo was independent of Glaive's base attack speed, meaning it was the only good way to use them as melee weapons. I am talking about Orvius and Pathocyst here. They are way too slow in their normal combo modes compared to other weapons.

I never use Orvius but the Pathocyst is incredibly slow, can't use it without my attack speed riven.

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On 2020-11-06 at 6:48 PM, [DE]Connor said:

With only the Glaive in hand, the alt fire button is no longer reserved for your secondary weapon, which allows for added flexibility - press alt fire for a Heavy Attack detonation, or tap melee for a simple recall.

Shouldn't it be the other way around? I.e. melee to detonate, heavy for recall. So that detonation would be the same button in both glaive only mode and in gun+glaive mode. Because something something consistency.

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1 hour ago, CapnHarland said:

They NEED to make mods like Rebound, Power Throw, Quick Return, Combo Killer, Volatile Rebound, etc. exilus mods so it's easier to use them. PLEASE, DE, make this a thing.

This is an Idea that I think is CRITICAL to the success of all the hard work that just went into making Glaives Viable.  Please consider it!

Edited by (PSN)Silverback73
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Might be asking for a little much but I'd like to propose some changes to the orvius special charge throw. other than swapping the conditions for the special throw on normal throw and let it ricochet on the charged throw, I can't think of any other way to change the input of the special throw. but giving the orvius that little bit of extra flexibility of being able to choose when to pick up an enemy or a normal charged throw would make it more enticing for players. As the special power throw will always consume combo meter, being able to have more control over when to use that meter would help the weapon as well. 

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What about Glaive-lite weapons (sledge/sigma octantis)? What about the nerfs that glaives received to heavy attack damage? Modding with Amalgam Organ Shatter and Killing Blow feel silly if I don't want to do the explosion build but still want to heavy attack. Will the press E to activate stuff apply to heavy attacks as well?

 

 

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Ok, let's go through this point by point:
Detonation. It is true that the explosion was inconsistent, in a way that made the explosion radius rather unpredictable.
This was annoying in the age of self-damage, but is really painfull in the age of stagger, especially with the already increased explosion radius that was introduced along with the self-damage changes.

Maybe it's just me, but I really don't want to have my glaive explode, unless I A: specifically build for a "pocket nuke" or B: am in a very unique situation.
In day-to-day play, it's just inconvenient, apart from instantly recalling the weapon back to my hand and having to sacrifice vital combo counter to do so is just not worth it, when the combo stacks are so much more effective in a variety of other combat scenarios.

Adding the "dark sector style power throw" aka. charged throw to normal melee mode is a good thing.
Same goes to throw-while-slide, however, that can unfortunately not (yet?) be said about queued throws.
At least not if the by now year-old animation lock remains unaddressed.
In case this is not known: Glaives upon reaching a certain attack speed and/or while rapidly performing attacks followed by a charged attack can soft-lock, completely disabling the weapon until swapped back and forth or being knocked out of the animation.

Melee stance combos in dual-wielding...
I urge you to reconsider this. These days, not having the normalized melee 2.99999 system has become one of my major reasons to run dual-wields in the first place.
That and not having to bother with being forced to swap back and forth between gun and melee because I wanted to break a crate.
The glaive's most prominent stance is already plagued by lift attacks, completely breaking any sort of combat flow one might hope to estalish, but even without that, it feels like a straight downgrade in terms of reliability, effectiveness and speed.
The weapon is already unique in the sense of dual-wielding, please let it stay that way.

Again, maybe it's just me... and I'll try it out and do my best to give this an honest chance when it comes into the game, but just from reading it, I feel like this will hurt (a lot) more than it helps.
What exactly is your reason for these changes?

I'm not sure how you experienced these weapons during testing or how other players do (and maybe based their feedback on). For me, it's a very fast and aggressive combination and a fine-tuned combat flow. It can be played like a melee or put out reliable burst damage like a shotgun or even a bow, consider the combat rhythm of charge and long-distance, high-damage projectile, synergyzing with pistols perfectly, finally rounded up by fast and efficient finisher animations, perfect for Savage-Silence.
At the time of writing (and specific to my playstyle), it's the best weapon combination there is, effortlessly bringing me through most the game can throw at me.
Why change it? To make the gameplay more "exciting and unique"?

Looking at the people in this thread alone who're apparently looking forward to these changes, I can't help but to think that maybe I'm just not the part of the playerbase these kinds of changes are being made for.

All I can do is to ask you, please not to sacrifice this weapon and the plays it enables for the sake of "consistency with other weapons".
Please reconsider these - and other - changes and if you do implement them, I would love to know what informed the design decisions that lead to them.

Edited by Darken217
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As you will now be able to block with your glaive with "gun & glaive" it would be a small step to go forward to "gun & shield".

The easiest implementation of that would be to allow players to use their single pistol with the shield "part" from a "weapon & shield"-weapon, functioning (almost) in the same way as you equip "gun & glaive".

That would be seriously cool, and make another somewhat obsolete weapon class a lot more relevant.

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1 hour ago, Darken217 said:

At the time of writing, it's the best weapon combination there is, effortlessly bringing me through most the game can throw at me. Why change it? To make the gameplay more "exciting and unique"?
Looking at the people in this thread alone who're apparently looking forward to these changes, I can't help but to think that maybe I'm just not the part of the playerbase th kinds of changes are being made for.

Well I farmed Revenant parts with Mesa (I don't know if there is a single forma on her). Was it good? Nope. I don't even know what I'm shooting at but I at least get through this. The same can go with lots of stuffs. If the stuffs helps you do things it doesn't mean it's good. And with melees it's similar stuffs. They might be good but lots of stances & weapons are redundant, very similar or just boring. Why we are having 24 weapon types and 1-4 stances where lots of stuffs are very similar?
As I'm melee fan (I like all kinds of white weapons) I can appreciate beautiful art they make. However gameplay wise it's not so good. I like Vitrica (new sword from Glassmaker). It looks nice and have nice feature. I really don't care if it's sword or other weapon type. With good enough stats it could be one of 75% other weapon types.
So I like that they make weapon types unique even if that would make them less good.

And if they make stances work with gun+glaive then it would be good because it would probably fix not being able to suspend enemies (when in gun+glaive mode only 1 in ~5 shoots suspend enemies while I'm on the ground).

 

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OMG this is amazing. As someone who EXCLUSIVELY uses Falcor as their only melee weapon since it's addition to WF I love this. I always loved the idea of throwing a glaive and leaving it to murder while I take down enemies. When I found out there was a glaive where I didnt have to aim I was so ecstatic.

The explosion on bounce will be good. I cant wait to start theory crafting. TY

 

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On another note I assume you cant have both on? I could see a situation where I would want both since bigger explosion+explosion on bounces+more bounces would be great. Something like equipping both Volatile Quick Return and Volatile Rebound while letting us also equip the old versions of both these mods would be cool. That being said with all these specific mods, this leaves little room for damage/status mods so I wonder if Glaives could get an extra exulis slot to compensate?

Another thing would be to have range mods affect the retargeting range of a Glaive instead of just it's throw range.

Can we have an option to shut off auto-block. One of the reasons I use Glaives over other weapons is because I dont have to worry about auto blocking killing the flow of gameplay while having it out.

Lastly, these are just thought bubbles for potential new glaive ideas.

* Glaive that splits into to multiple glaives that have half the bounces of the main glaive when a charged throw of heavy attack is used.

* Mod that gives glaives auto tracking but lower's damage. Obviously if this were to become a thing I dont think it would overshadow Falcor's gimmick since it would lower the damage and the tracking doesnt have to be to the level of Falcor's.

* Glaive with an explosion that pulls enemies into a group.

* Let Hildryn dual-wield since her 1 is a secondary.

Edited by Shatter_The_Sun
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On 2020-11-06 at 1:35 PM, Udoshi said:

Great start! However, its not quite good enough:

 

Glaives need 2-3 free(no plat)  exilus slots so you can actually use bounce mods, whirlwind, etc or those mods need buffs to include stats like damage, attack speed, etc to make them worth slotting.

Glaives need the ability to block or melee when a thrown blade is out. Give it a ghostglaive a la pyrana: gunblades will always be superior because you are never 'locked out' of using the weapon by shooting. Glaives are.

Homing mod that adds homing to non homing glaives:. Ie, slap this augment on kestrel to turn it into performing like a cerata, glaive prime, or modern gl

 

Please don't half ass it, make them good in one pass.

 

Relatedly....

Let Wolf Sledge use glaive mods! its criminal you can't slap whirlwind on it!!

Give Shield-Toss weapons the same QOL treatment. Or, better yet, let them use glaive stances?

Exilus mods for Deconstructor and other sentinel guns when?

Can we get a Gunblade+Secondary dual wield mode as well?

Combo fury needs some love and a reason to use it. Exilus candidate? Put it on throwing secondaries? Its kinda bad riht now.

Thanks!

If they are gonna add a homing mod to glaives I think it should come with a penalty because whats stopping people from putting that on GP and making Falcor obsolete? I dont think the fact that it would take a mod slot up would be enough of a detriment. Something like reduced damage/throw speed or something along those lines.

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