Please, please, please tell me if I've misunderstood the Steel Essence changes in the last Devstream

[Jarriaga]

8 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Eh.

Look, a significant part of this comes into perspective when you ask the following question: "When DE launched Steel Path, do you think they expected that players would be able to farm literally hundreds and hundreds of Steel Essences to trade in for hundreds of thousands of Kuva? That players would do one mission and come out with more than a hundred thousand Kuva? Really?"

I don't especially care, but it's kind of obvious that DE were going to do something about it. See also the outcry over the Kuva Bramma (nerfed) and the Catchmoon (nerfed). I put reasonable odds on the Kuva Nukor's chaining beams ability to be toned down at some point, possibly even before spring.

Indeed.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

What we are saying is that we want more viable options to do the farming and not be pinned into using 1 out of 2 frames. I mean seriously, no frame comes close to Khora or Baruuk for essence farming due to how the system is set up. Just adding acolytes ontop of it wouldnt change that. You'd still have those 2 frames out of 40+ being the only viable choices. We've seen how bad it is to let such things stay in game for long based on the modes system, ESO is a prime example of that. 

The change just sets the bar and rates much lower. Your actual rates if you didn't want to do meta farms will likely be close to the same. So everything will be viable, but because its poor. The reverse of when everyone is super. When everything is bad, nothing will be.

If your goal is just to buy the one time purchases in the shop, I've shown that you can do that in <2 hours. Unless you get swarmed with Acolytes, you're not going to achieve that speed. If that's all you wanted from the store then you no longer care about essence. So the change would be detrimental there.
If you want to buy non-one time purchases from the shop, then the changes are detrimental as well. Other farms would provide faster rates for them.
If you don't care about essence at all, then these changes are neither positive or negative.
So the change is neutral at best.
That's why I advocate for Acolytes to be an addition. No need for everyone to eat dirt. Your thought of "I could be getting more if I do something I don't like" is on you. Its not a valid reason to completely eliminate the farm. I don't like doing Arbitations in a meta way, so my essence gain is substantially lower than meta farms. So should Vitus farmers get nerfed?

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And who the **** is envious?

You guys apparently since you are upset that farms can achieve a high rate while off-meta doesn't get as high. So you go crab mentality and decide that if you can't get those rates with your favorite frame, then no one should.
Acolytes being an addition instead of a replacement is the same change for non-meta farmers. Why do you care what the top earns if your situation is being upgraded? The only reason would be envy.

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

You are just assuming that the rates will be bad.

Its DE. They take the approach of put stuff at bad rates. Then a year or two down the line maybe look at it.

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And regular loot isnt really comparable to essence. Khora isnt a better farmer for essence because she is a loot frame, she is a better farmer because she produces litteral millions of more damage per hit than any other frame across a whole map. The pace of her killing is what makes her the top choice, not her loot augment.

The kill rate still applies to regular loot. The augment is just a bonus.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

The change just sets the bar and rates much lower. Your actual rates if you didn't want to do meta farms will likely be close to the same. So everything will be viable, but because its poor. The reverse of when everyone is super. When everything is bad, nothing will be.

If your goal is just to buy the one time purchases in the shop, I've shown that you can do that in <2 hours. Unless you get swarmed with Acolytes, you're not going to achieve that speed. If that's all you wanted from the store then you no longer care about essence. So the change would be detrimental there.
If you want to buy non-one time purchases from the shop, then the changes are detrimental as well. Other farms would provide faster rates for them.
If you don't care about essence at all, then these changes are neither positive or negative.
So the change is neutral at best.
That's why I advocate for Acolytes to be an addition. No need for everyone to eat dirt. Your thought of "I could be getting more if I do something I don't like" is on you. Its not a valid reason to completely eliminate the farm. I don't like doing Arbitations in a meta way, so my essence gain is substantially lower than meta farms. So should Vitus farmers get nerfed?

You guys apparently since you are upset that farms can achieve a high rate while off-meta doesn't get as high. So you go crab mentality and decide that if you can't get those rates with your favorite frame, then no one should.
Acolytes being an addition instead of a replacement is the same change for non-meta farmers. Why do you care what the top earns if your situation is being upgraded? The only reason would be envy.

Its DE. They take the approach of put stuff at bad rates. Then a year or two down the line maybe look at it.

The kill rate still applies to regular loot. The augment is just a bonus.

I'm OK if the rates drop down to current non-meta farming, since it will atleast bring balance with it. Sometimes we need to bite down and take it. And as it is now, only one place offers meta farming, so it is more them fixing an actual outlier and we all know outliers are never a bar for balance. The changes will likely still end up being as rewarding as survival per minute, but it will also be rewarding earlier on and in non-endless missions. Which in turn would make Steel Path worthwhile for other things, like farming relics, since we'll probably also get essence in the process when doing captures etc.

I'm still not sure what solution you think it would be to add acolytes ontop of anything, it would just make the meta more meta and even more imbalanced. And you bringing up arbitrations also makes little sense, since it is working on a completely different mechanic. Some modes are slightly more rewarding yes, but that is not comparable to a mode that is 10x as rewarding as the next. Clearly you do not grasp the concept of balance. The biggest impact from arbitrations is if you happen to die for some reason, that is really the most meta concern aside from the most profitable mission type, which is also random at all times. It isnt always the same single node out of 200 that is rewarding 10x as much as the number 2 node out of those 200. Also, if you remember, they changed arbi rotas since some modes were simply far more profitable.

I think you need to look up the word envy if you think we are envyous. We achieve that rate, we are just bored out of our minds slugging through yet again with the same single frame. I guess you could say I envy the 1-track minds that actually "enjoy" that mindnumbing farm with the same frame over and over. It is also not about using "your favorite frame" it is about using more than 1 or 2 frames only. Massive difference to what you are saying. You also seem to be of some odd impression that we do not play the meta currently and would somehow be awarded by acolytes simply being another layer. We wouldnt be "upgraded" since we'd still sit there with the same 2 frames due to it being far more efficient still, bored like hell out of our mind.

And while the kill rate applies to regular loot it doesnt matter in content where you actively farm polymer since all frames with an AoE kit 1HK's those mobs all the same. The augment is what makes the difference there. Which is why Khora and Baruuk are out of whack in SP due to their 1HK AoE at those levels, which no other frame can really compete with. Like I said, they could tone down the damage of those two instead of removing essence from eximus units, and then balance interception or more accurately Odin, maybe changing the map layout to be similar to other interception maps.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

41 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

bringing up arbitrations also makes little sense, since it is working on a completely different mechanic. Some modes are slightly more rewarding yes, but that is not comparable to a mode that is 10x as rewarding as the next. Clearly you do not grasp the concept of balance. The biggest impact from arbitrations is if you happen to die for some reason, that is really the most meta concern aside from the most profitable mission type, which is also random at all times. It isnt always the same single node out of 200 that is rewarding 10x as much as the number 2 node out of those 200. Also, if you remember, they changed arbi rotas since some modes were simply far more profitable.

You must've never done a meta farm for Vitus essence.
You can pump out ~120-150 vitus/hour on certain game modes with meta farms, while others give nearly nothing for the same investment. Also highly dependent on kill rate.
And its the same mechanic. A certain enemy drops a resource. In SP its eximus, in Arbitrations its the drones. Rotation rewards have nothing to do with it.
 

21 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And while the kill rate applies to regular loot it doesnt matter in content where you actively farm polymer since all frames with an AoE kit 1HK's those mobs all the same.

You farm polymer in SP though. Double drop chance means you only need half the kill rate of normal missions.

24 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm still not sure what solution you think it would be to add acolytes ontop of anything

Because those content with the current meta are unaffected, while those that aren't (ones that don't want to do meta) get a buff.
No one forces you to do meta. If you would be fine with Acolyte rates, why begrudge those who are willing to farm the meta and get more.
You get your lower "consistent" rates that don't need meta tactics, while those that are willing to do meta are unaffected.
 

30 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I think you need to look up the word envy if you think we are envyous.

"a feeling of discontented or resentful longing aroused by someone else's possessions, qualities, or luck."
If current farms remain, that matches how you act. You want them removed because you don't want to do them. You indicate that you would be happy with the lower Acolyte rates, but would still feel desirous of meta farms under eximus rates if they remained, and would resent them to the point of removal. Is that not envy?

Let's say Acolytes have a rate of 12 essence/hr (1 Acolyte per rotation) for survival. That matches low duration survival, but is very low compared to longer duration survival, which reaches 75-110 essence/hour depending on kill rate and how long you stay.
Defense can reach ~65-85 essence/hour for longer runs.
We've seen what interception can offer.
So that would be a bit of a bump for endurance if eximus drops remain, while if it doesn't its a massive nerf

[SneakyErvin]

18 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

You must've never done a meta farm for Vitus essence.
You can pump out ~120-150 vitus/hour on certain game modes with meta farms, while others give nearly nothing for the same investment. Also highly dependent on kill rate.
And its the same mechanic. A certain enemy drops a resource. In SP its eximus, in Arbitrations its the drones. Rotation rewards have nothing to do with it.
 

You farm polymer in SP though. Double drop chance means you only need half the kill rate of normal missions.

Because those content with the current meta are unaffected, while those that aren't (ones that don't want to do meta) get a buff.
No one forces you to do meta. If you would be fine with Acolyte rates, why begrudge those who are willing to farm the meta and get more.
You get your lower "consistent" rates that don't need meta tactics, while those that are willing to do meta are unaffected.
 

"a feeling of discontented or resentful longing aroused by someone else's possessions, qualities, or luck."
If current farms remain, that matches how you act. You want them removed because you don't want to do them. You indicate that you would be happy with the lower Acolyte rates, but would still feel desirous of meta farms under eximus rates if they remained, and would resent them to the point of removal. Is that not envy?

Let's say Acolytes have a rate of 12 essence/hr (1 Acolyte per rotation) for survival. That matches low duration survival, but is very low compared to longer duration survival, which reaches 75-110 essence/hour depending on kill rate and how long you stay.
Defense can reach ~65-85 essence/hour for longer runs.
We've seen what interception can offer.
So that would be a bit of a bump for endurance if eximus drops remain, while if it doesn't its a massive nerf

I've done meta arbis, though it requires groups to be extremely effective due to still lacking the SP mob density for solo. Here we are talking a mode where solo is meta and only 2 frames are worthwhile and only 1 mode is really good. This is about balance and nothing else, since all those 3 things are outliers. We dont have actual outliers in arbis, not to mention that drones have special rules that require people to stop ability camping.

Who honestly needs to farm regular mats when they hit Steel Path?

No it wouldnt be unaffected, it would be even better. DE tries to balance it, you want moar instead. It would also push us that actually dont enjoy the mindless button mashing of the current meta to stay in the current meta since we still care about efficiency when playing. We just happen to see that balance is currently an issue since it just isnt there. You try to downplay our opinions by more or less claiming that we are unwilling or unable to run the meta, which isnt the case, we just see a need for balance, which we all know what happens when imbalance is left running amok for too long.

No, that isnt envy, that is you not understanding why we want the changes in the first place. We want it for balance, so a larger part of the roster opens up to meta, where old meta frames per mode are again viable and not massive drawbacks. You also chicken-little a whole lot, since you expect the absolute worst before we've even seen any plans on the rates etc. of the acolytes. You really give the phrase "jumping the gun" a true poster child.

Steel Path was never intended to be a place to sit in in order for it to ramp up. So it shouldnt be a thing regarding the loot either. It fails to solve the problem that it was set out to solve in the first place, which was the waiting game. It just switched waiting for mob levels with waiting for worthwhile loot. The system should be balanced, it shouldnt matter if you wait or not, you should be able to get the loot at whatever pace you can when it comes to spare time. If Steel Path was an actually challenging mode I'd get behind the whole "better loot later on", but it is practically the same for several hours and we all just wait for an arbitrary timer to tick down so the loot pinatas come in bigger batches. That is a big reason why it should instead be balanced around a specific mob on a more even timer, where it doesnt matter if you get bored out of your mind after 30 minutes or after 5 hours. You'd still come out of it with the same essence/minute.

I just suspect that you dont wanna lose Odin+Khora while not really caring about the rest or balance.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

solo is meta

No it’s not. Squad is meta as more people = more kills. Squads open up a lot more options for farming too, since it eases the burden on a single player. Squad is almost always better than solo for any content in Warframe.

30 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

only 2 frames are worthwhile and only 1 mode is really good

Sounds like Vitus farm Arbitrations.

45 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

We dont have actual outliers in arbis, not to mention that drones have special rules that require people to stop ability camping.

Except meta Arbitration farms rely on ability camping. Also it does have outliers. Defense gets up to 160/hr while survival reaches like 90/hr.

9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Who honestly needs to farm regular mats when they hit Steel Path?

That wasn’t the point, and plenty of people do. Dojo builders, people who need resources for helminth, people who use gear items a lot. SP isn’t that hard to get.

10 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It would also push us that actually dont enjoy the mindless button mashing of the current meta to stay in the current meta since we still care about efficiency when playing.

If you would be happy with acolyte rates, then be happy with it. If Y farm is faster than X farm, but you don’t like Y farm and would be content with X, why must Y go away. Because you always need to have maximum efficiency?
If you don’t like it, don’t do it.

32 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

We want it for balance, so a larger part of the roster opens up to meta, where old meta frames per mode are again viable and not massive drawbacks.

So I’ll wait for the weekend and we’ll see the results of the PTC, but what if Acolyte rates are the same as current rates with your heavily off meta frames. What then. The change will have done nothing for the lower end then.

14 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

You also chicken-little a whole lot, since you expect the absolute worst before we've even seen any plans on the rates etc. of the acolytes

Okay, what should I expect for rates then? Should I assume I’ll be swarmed by 5 Acolytes every 5 minutes? Better to assume the worst so you can be surprised when it’s just bad, not S#&amp;&#036;.

And my previous example of 1 Acolyte every 5 min was me being semi-generous. Hardly assuming the worst.

15 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Steel Path was never intended to be a place to sit in in order for it to ramp up. So it shouldnt be a thing regarding the loot either. It fails to solve the problem that it was set out to solve in the first place, which was the waiting game. It just switched waiting for mob levels with waiting for worthwhile loot. The system should be balanced, it shouldnt matter if you wait or not, you should be able to get the loot at whatever pace you can when it comes to spare time.

Easy solution is just make the ramp up immediate. Also source on that SP was’t intended to follow the rules of scaling ramp up?

25 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I just suspect that you dont wanna lose Odin+Khora while not really caring about the rest or balance.

I’ve said that I don’t mind a nerf to interception so long as it’s not too heavy handed and comes with a significant buff to other endurance modes. I don’t want to lose finally having the potential of good kuva rates and being rewarded for longer runs.

[SneakyErvin]

21 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:

No it’s not. Squad is meta as more people = more kills. Squads open up a lot more options for farming too, since it eases the burden on a single player. Squad is almost always better than solo for any content in Warframe.

Sounds like Vitus farm Arbitrations.

Except meta Arbitration farms rely on ability camping. Also it does have outliers. Defense gets up to 160/hr while survival reaches like 90/hr.

That wasn’t the point, and plenty of people do. Dojo builders, people who need resources for helminth, people who use gear items a lot. SP isn’t that hard to get.

If you would be happy with acolyte rates, then be happy with it. If Y farm is faster than X farm, but you don’t like Y farm and would be content with X, why must Y go away. Because you always need to have maximum efficiency?
If you don’t like it, don’t do it.

So I’ll wait for the weekend and we’ll see the results of the PTC, but what if Acolyte rates are the same as current rates with your heavily off meta frames. What then. The change will have done nothing for the lower end then.

Okay, what should I expect for rates then? Should I assume I’ll be swarmed by 5 Acolytes every 5 minutes? Better to assume the worst so you can be surprised when it’s just bad, not S#&amp;&#036;.

And my previous example of 1 Acolyte every 5 min was me being semi-generous. Hardly assuming the worst.

Easy solution is just make the ramp up immediate. Also source on that SP was’t intended to follow the rules of scaling ramp up?

I’ve said that I don’t mind a nerf to interception so long as it’s not too heavy handed and comes with a significant buff to other endurance modes. I don’t want to lose finally having the potential of good kuva rates and being rewarded for longer runs.

For SP solo is just the same as group or slightly better since you know exactly where the mobs will spawn. That has been shown several times over both for interception and survival, the only two modes worth running. Steel Path comes with group scaled spawning density, so a group is not needed for that.

And if the acolytes dont change enything for the lower end it doesnt matter. The full roster will never be viable all at once for something if you seek efficiency. There is however a difference in having only 2 frames viable for a whole star map worth of missions and having different handfulls of frames viable for several different mission types in a mode. Even though arbitrations arent massively wide in viable frame, the mode still covers several times more due to the different mission types that are worthwhile, which all make use of different frames.

And as for SP not being intended to follow rules of scaling? I never said that, I said it was intended so we didnt have to wait for the cake. Which was the whole selling point of SP, to skip the previous wait of endless, aswell as being able to revisit previously abandoned nodes, which it failed with since fewer nodes are used in SP than on the normal map due to how essence is rewarded. And it is a bit #*!%ed up that kuva farming is more efficient on non-kuva mission types, something the acolyte addition will change aswell.

[Jarriaga]

So the test server Steel Path store has Umbral Forma. No wonder DE had to lower the ceiling.

[SneakyErvin]

16 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

So the test server Steel Path store has Umbral Forma. No wonder DE had to lower the ceiling.

Well, the avarage seems to come out at a better state than it is on live if you base calculations around survival. Based on what was said in another thread, acolytes drop 1-3 essence and spawns once per rotation it seems aslong as you kill, that means 12-36 essence in an hour. Currently an hour in survival nets you around 12-15 essence if you are somewhat lucky, in order to pull off anything close to 30 in 60 minutes you need boosters and smeeta luck. So 12-36 without boosters looks really nice. Plus you can probably do it with any frame aswell and not just mass killers.

I guess the really long endless runs aswell as cheese odin will see a decrease, though outside of odin it wont be a big dip if consistant spawning of acolytes is true across rotations.

edit: What I do wonder now is how effective Disruption can become if acolyte spawns are based on rotations, since that mode can be fast as hell.

[Dunkelheit]

As someone who is using nearly every single minute of his playtime to farm Steel Essences and has millions of Kuva, because I am scared to miss out, let me just say: I am so glad when this finally gets patched and I can go back to fun and engaging gameplay.

 

 

[BornWithTeeth]

10 minutes ago, Dunkelheit said:

As someone who is using nearly every single minute of his playtime to farm Steel Essences and has millions of Kuva, because I am scared to miss out, let me just say: I am so glad when this finally gets patched and I can go back to fun and engaging gameplay.

 

 

Ok. Two questions.

1. You're joking, right? This is a pisstake, no?

2. If not, then dude you know that's not actually healthy? Like, that is, in a very tiny and not super significant way, pathological?

[Talinthis]

It is too late to change how Steel essence drops now. some people will be able to buy a hundred umbra forma while others will have to play these missions for ages to buy a single one.

As usual gg on fixing things far too late. Would be better to introduce a new currency with the change

Maybe I just dont understand exactly what they are changing but it sounds bad

[Graavarg]

I think this thread would be quite different if kuva would never have included in the Steel Essence shop (10k kuva for 15 Steel Essence). Even though a few posters spell it out, kuva (and the riven-based plat economy depending on kuva) is once again the elephant in the room.

Sure, there might have been a few hardcore Tenno so bonkers they would do hours of daily SP endurance runs just for the fun it (= even if they couldn't get the kuva), but the truth is that almost all of this (thread) has kuva at it's core, just like the endurance runs themselves.

And of course it IS all about the kuva, since this is currently (clearly) the easiest way to get it. It is not about "meaningful end level gameplay". In fact, the sheer mind-boggling boredom of 120 minutes of Steel Essence farming is anything but "meaningful", from a gameplay perspective.

And kuva is, of course, also the reason DE needs to change the current system (and even DE doesn't spell that out, in so many words). They could have balanced it out by increasing the price in the Steel Essence Shop (to 3, 40 or 50 essence for 10k kuva), but then everyone would have been stuck with a totally boring farm not even generating all that more kuva than other farms, and all farmers would still only visit only a few nodes leaving the rest of Steel Path to be covered in dust. So instead they came up with another way, decreasing the farming rate (instead of increasing the price) and breaking the dependency on a few farming nodes by re-introducing the Acolytes.

If you look at it objectively (from the outside) it is actually pretty smart. Especially if the Acolytes will use some mechanism reminiscent of the previous events, so that they "hide" on a planet until found and then spawn during missions on that node for a short while. Four birds with one stone: (1) reduction of the current kuva farm, (2) break-up of the slightly extreme endurance farming runs (on just a few nodes), (3) all Steel Path nodes in play again (almost anyway) and (4) the Acolytes are back, having a role to play.

With the exception of players farming Steel Essence for kuva (due to the current "too generous" farming possibility), how is anyone actually losing out by this change?

[(XBOX)The Reject7946]

On 2020-11-06 at 3:09 PM, Merrcenary said:

yeah yeah yeah and there is only 1 playstyle for steel essence farming: spend your whole day in 1 tileset in 1 pit pressing 1-2 buttons

i glad that DE finally doing something with these 500+ SE farms

In an hour and a half, I'm averaging 20-24 Steel Essence on IO with a Pilfering Khora. 

[Merrcenary]

4 минуты назад, (XBOX)Der Ablehnen сказал:

In an hour and a half, I'm averaging 20-24 Steel Essence on IO with a Pilfering Khora. 

nice waste of time

[(XBOX)The Reject7946]

Just now, Merrcenary said:

nice waste of time

Not with the 4,000 Oxium per 40 waves alongside that. Solo outcome, because it seems most people find Steel Path overly challenging. It's hard mode, but isn't that hard when you've played long enough to get everything and upgrade everything. 

[vegetosayajin]

29 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

I think this thread would be quite different if kuva would never have included in the Steel Essence shop (10k kuva for 15 Steel Essence). Even though a few posters spell it out, kuva (and the riven-based plat economy depending on kuva) is once again the elephant in the room.

idd

That's why I am 0% upset for the changes.
I have all the rivens I wanted and rolled them myself to good or great values.

I'm rather happy for the changes, because this way I will finish the map someday.
I quit halfway because it was soooooo boring, now with the dailies it will keep me at least for a month I think.

[(XBOX)The Reject7946]

Just now, (XBOX)Der Ablehnen said:

Not with the 4,000 Oxium per 40 waves alongside that. Solo outcome, because it seems most people find Steel Path overly challenging. It's hard mode, but isn't that hard when you've played long enough to get everything and upgrade everything. 

I'm a Founding Warlord and have most resources stocked-up enough to not have to worry about re-doing interiors or future research/rooms being added. 168k Oxium in the Vault and 129k in my inventory, last I checked. The Steel Essence has been more of a bonus alongside that consistency in outcome for solo runs on IO.

[Merrcenary]

2 минуты назад, (XBOX)Der Ablehnen сказал:

Not with the 4,000 Oxium per 40 waves alongside that. Solo outcome, because it seems most people find Steel Path overly challenging. It's hard mode, but isn't that hard when you've played long enough to get everything and upgrade everything. 

I'm not talking about complexity, but about efficiency. you got 20-30 essences in an hour and a half, while I with a good group got 86 without a booster in 1:45hr

[(XBOX)The Reject7946]

Just now, Merrcenary said:

I'm not talking about complexity, but about efficiency. you got 20-30 essences in an hour and a half, while I with a good group got 86 without a booster in 1:45hr

Probably a Dark Sector area with Nekros and Khora?

[Merrcenary]

1 минуту назад, (XBOX)Der Ablehnen сказал:

Probably a Dark Sector area with Nekros and Khora?

void with khora nekros nova and banshee

[(XBOX)The Reject7946]

1 minute ago, Merrcenary said:

void with khora nekros nova and banshee

Turning it into a relic farm on-top of that, eh?

[Phobesse]

On 2020-11-06 at 9:17 PM, nadeemh said:

For context, I love this game and have played every day for the past few years (three or four years - lost count). I've maxed everything (MR 30) and can solo everything in the game (except for Steel Path Tridolons). What keeps me playing is endurance runs. Steel Path has become my default game mode and doing hours of survival is what I, personally, call fun. Everything else I do (aside from exploring new content when it's available) is to build a better setup for longer and better endurance runs.

Earning Steel Essence from Eximus enemies is basically my goal. The longer I stay, the more Essence I collect. I was thankful for this when it was released. Finally there was something for players like me and I was under the impression that DE did this specifically for us. Steel Path was released at a time when it felt like DE was only pandering to the new players and leaving the rest of us out in the cold.

But it sounds as though this is being nerfed. Is it true that Steel Essence will ONLY drop from Acolytes? That would mean a maximum amount of Essence per run regardless of how long I stay in a mission.

Also, it takes me around 5-10 minutes to kill Stalker in Steel Path mode. Abilities are disabled, my frame gets one-shotted (no point building for non-ability survivability against level 1000+ enemies) so I have to use only my operator and amp for survival. When Stalker has turned up in time-critical missions I simply let him kill me so I can get on with the mission otherwise the entire endeavour would wasted. If Acolytes are going to be the same then not only are my Essence drops in survival limited, I would not be able to fight the Acolyte AND keep life support up so I would have to forgo the Essence in order to maintain life support and complete the mission resulting in ZERO Essence from favourite game mode.

Please tell me that I've misunderstood all of this and that I'm getting angry and upset over nothing.

I am afraid you are completely right. I am currently quite in burnout from Warframe, being myself an old time player that started playing in 2014. I speak as someone that has not yet gone into the steel essence farming, for the same reasons you are using here: I feel like most of the content these days is for new players and I am quite tired of making my own long term goals only to see them erased later(good old void tower endurance runs just to quote one example.) But here is my opinion about this: I don't think the idea of having a small amount of steel essence in alerts is bad, HOWEVER it is bad if it completely erases the good old farming method.

It's not subjective or debatable, really: now people can do endless runs and farm tons of steel essence, after this change will go live the amount of steel essence a player can farm daily will be limited. It is simply not an upgrade and not efficient, if you are farming. BUT it is useful if you are still going through the Steel Path nodes, since these alerts will focus players in specific nodes and ultimately help if you don't want to/can't solo them, providing an alternate way to go through the Steel Path star chart while also giving a guaranteed(even if very small) amount of steel essence for those that don't have time for endless runs to farm it.

My opinion is that ideally, this new system would be amazing if combined with the current one, providing both a short term and low effort way to get steel essence and run steel path nodes AND a long term way with endurance runs and eximus drops for those than enjoy such modes or just want to hard grind big amounts steel essence.

So I would also like to understand: why take from endurance runners to give to more casual players when you can just implement alerts while keeping the steel essence in the eximus drops? Sure, to survive in the game industry you need to focus on welcoming new players and expanding your playerbase, but constantly deleting every single thing the vets claim for themselves is quite counterproductive, I think.

And please focus on the fact that we are not talking about a new groundbreaking game mode either: we are talking about random missions with the same game modes we have for everything else, except that these give a handful of steel essence in the end. The vets' small joy is no great game mode either, people just resigned(for necessity or because they actually enjoy it, but ultimately because we have nothing better) to do endless endurance runs of the same game modes we have had since release, the same game modes we used to do when farming old void towers back in the days.

And yet, we can't even keep this? Is this too much to ask?

I am confused by this decision, just like you. And a bit angry, I would even call it a bit disrespectful.

 

[nadeemh]

1 hour ago, Phobesse said:

I am confused by this decision, just like you. And a bit angry, I would even call it a bit disrespectful.

Thank you! I feel less alone now.

[(NSW)Edcaous]

On 2020-11-06 at 3:36 PM, nadeemh said:

Is that why it might be nerfed?

More like a buff for everyone who doesn't do hour long endurance runs in survival missions with boosters and a smeeta.