Y'all best not be thinking about no 40 ranks for Queenpin weapons

[auxy]

Topic. For real tho. I'm just now finally finishing up my kuva weapons and that shxt has been real tiresome.

[Hierarch777]

Agreed, it is pretty expensive, taking into account the crafting time of forma and the time you maximise the xp. Maybe have it reduced to 2 or 3 forma. 

[Wyrmius_Prime]

As long as mastery rank remains capped at 30, there's no need to waste your forma for mastery xp unless you're going for total completion of the game. If that's the case, then you've already made a stupid choice all by yourself no matter which level the weapons level up to.

[auxy]

Just now, Wyrmius_Prime said:

As long as mastery rank remains capped at 30, there's no need to waste your forma for mastery xp unless you're going for total completion of the game. If that's the case, then you've already made a stupid choice all by yourself no matter which level the weapons level up to.

Thanks for your judgemental, unhelpful drive-by post!

2 minutes ago, Hierarch777 said:

Agreed, it is pretty expensive, taking into account the crafting time of forma and the time you maximise the xp. Maybe have it reduced to 2 or 3 forma. 

I'd rather have it reduced to no forma. lol. I don't have a single Kuva weapon that doesn't have >20 capacity going totally unused after applying five forma.

[Dhrekr]

Be careful, my friend.

When you come to the forums and say "it took me until now to finish leveling them", DE reads "your trick to make me play and work for a very long time, on me, worked without a hitch".

You aren't giving them much reason to stop with this level 40 bulls**t if in the same breath you admit that it worked.

[auxy]

1 minute ago, Dhrekr said:

Be careful, my friend.

When you come to the forums and say "it took me until now to finish leveling them", DE reads "your trick to make me play and work for a very long time, on me, worked without a hitch".

You aren't giving them much reason to stop with this level 40 bulls**t if in the same breath you admit that it worked.

Haha. I don't know if they can really say that it "worked" because it made me quit playing for three months. The only reason I came back is because I wanted to see Steve's new renderer, and then people in my clan wanted to run stuff, and I ended up getting sucked in again.

Because it's so damn tedious, I cheesed the missions with minimum effort meta builds and then cheesed the leveling with ESO. I have piles of forma from playing this game for seven years, so whatever. It's really the time that annoys me more than anything. The kuva weapons feel like the game is disrespecting my time, much more than anything else in the game. 

The break I took after the two worst updates in this game (Old Blood and then Empyrean -- but mostly Old Blood) is the longest I've ever taken. If they pull that same crap with the Corpus kingpin weapons, I might not come back this time. I got too many other games to play.

[(PSN)Deeceem]

Meanwhile the guy at DE who had the idea is like...

[Urlan]

I know for me and my clan; one of the ideas we have felt would help the kuva lich weapons and future other faction lichs, is make their weapons gain some trait akin to the Paracesis for mastering them to 40. It doesn't have to be the bane of faction like the Paracersis, but something to help them stand out beyond just their basic stats and some mod points. If not a set boost, being able to earn and equip Kuva Exodia or something similar upon full mastery would also help them while not locking the weapons into a given potentially limiting boost.

In short, I would agree that just mastering them for mastery and the mod points feels draining and lacks wow factor.

[AlphaPHENIX]

You guys still doing liches? Mine keep loosing out to modern attention span's negative duration and end up ignored for months.

The last gu- scratch that, still current guy I honestly planned to convert; first one to even get that consideration and only because I would prefer a Kuva Bramma randomly spawn to help...rather then a Kraken or something. It's been a ''few'' weeks, and I am back to being too annoyed by their voice lines to ever want to hear them again.

[Tiltskillet]

I suspect a lot more people would be ok with the additional ranks if they just gave a small bonus beyond extra capacity.

edit:  meant to quote @Urlan

[BiancaRoughfin]

Personally i prefer they went to lvl 40 as normal Kuva weapons, im need stuff to do in the game.

[rainmaker170]

It's really just an interesting decision. You can argue that the resource cost is nothing when you have 6k hours, or that you can cheese levelling so that it takes whatever arbitrary time, but the fact is that there is no reason for the weapons to operate this way. It isn't even special. It's supposed to come off as some sort of benefit, and this is more true of weapons with polarities to start with, but in the end, if I put 5 formas into something, I typically don't need extra capacity. So it actually does nothing in the end other than take more time. Which, when added to the tedium of actually doing the liches, doesn't really come across as fun in any way.

I say it's an interesting decision because DE has, up to this point, never really tried to dictate which weapons people use. Yes, there's balance to consider, but whichever weapons people spend time on has always been the choice of the player. Now, its better than launch, but most of the kuva weapons are...not exactly any better than any other weapon in the game. I don't know the average number of "main weapons" people use, but there are more than 450 weapons in the game. I'm going to be generous and say that there's maybe 30 that I use interchangeably. We can assume "Queenpin" would probably add around the same amount of weapons as the liches. That adds up to about approximately 30 between those two updates. I'm pretty sure the average player doesn't look at an update and go, "I want to level and forma and buy slots for every single one of these weapons." Let alone for two updates. That's why mastery fodder is even a term.

I'm not saying there isn't a place for it. I'd probably tie it to valence. Lower the minimum percentage, raise the max, and have each forma buff it by a set amount. That way, you can still level them 5 times over if you intend to use them and there would be an actual benefit to the player for doing so, but if you just want to level it and throw it way without caring about the element or valence or whatever, you can just do it. 

Otherwise, I guess we can always ask DE if they can do every single one of the 450+ weapons (many of which are still better and more "special" than kuva weapons) the same way for consistency, and add specific "build and forma this one weapon 5 times" challenges to nightwave. It's just a recurring issue. No need to treat it differently. Easier to take the 16 already annoying to obtain weapons and actually make them fit in with the rest of the game.

[(XBOX)LorgarAurelion3]

Amen. There isn't even much of a point for the 10 additional levels. It should be optional and not necessary to gain the max mastery for the weapon.

[VoidArkhangel]

hace 2 horas, Urlan dijo:

I know for me and my clan; one of the ideas we have felt would help the kuva lich weapons and future other faction lichs, is make their weapons gain some trait akin to the Paracesis for mastering them to 40. It doesn't have to be the bane of faction like the Paracersis, but something to help them stand out beyond just their basic stats and some mod points. If not a set boost, being able to earn and equip Kuva Exodia or something similar upon full mastery would also help them while not locking the weapons into a given potentially limiting boost.

In short, I would agree that just mastering them for mastery and the mod points feels draining and lacks wow factor.

Totally agree, maybe a +20% damage per forma? I want a +0.20 riven dispo per forma but I know DE is scared af of making something op rn soooo

[Mediloric]

Wouldn't mind it reduced but I don't see a issue with having level 40 weapons, bit of added flexibility and putting on more expensive costing mods isn't really a downside plus I think it's one of the more rewarding elements of the Liches (which.. well there wasn't many anyway) 

Maybe they should give Mastery at rank 30 though? Would only be fair and that way people who want to invest into that Kuva weapon can and people who only the Mastery can just get it. 

[_Tormex_]

I like the level 40 kuva weapons and am hoping/expecting for the corpus ones to have the same thing :)

[BahamutKaiser]

It's annoying, but also cool. I'd rather they release the bottleneck in forma rather than restrain these weapons. Most guns take 6 forma anyway. If they are worth using, the 5 forma Mastery cost is actually a savings. 

[rainmaker170]

7 hours ago, BahamutKaiser said:

It's annoying, but also cool. I'd rather they release the bottleneck in forma rather than restrain these weapons. Most guns take 6 forma anyway. If they are worth using, the 5 forma Mastery cost is actually a savings. 

6 or 7 polarities anyway. Most weapons start with one or two. Even three. That's kinda the issue though. Its never happened that every single weapon from any warframe update is worth using (or doesn't get entirely overlooked because of the current meta). I'd be surprised if each player had an single weapon from each update that they actively use.

That's where I agree with you though, if they were all good, absolutely. There's just nothing actually special about them currently. 

[rainmaker170]

On 2020-11-07 at 6:46 PM, Wyrmius_Prime said:

As long as mastery rank remains capped at 30, there's no need to waste your forma for mastery xp unless you're going for total completion of the game. If that's the case, then you've already made a stupid choice all by yourself no matter which level the weapons level up to.

You are not wrong at all. But what do you think the chances are that mastery will actually remain at 30? Are they just going to stop releasing content? That's exactly it though. The only reason to use some stuff is mastery. If something is released, they are going to want you to use it.

Best case, they raise the cap on mastery to go with the new weapons and frames they release, and give you some neat rewards. Worst case, and more likely in my mind, we get some kind of prestige system that relies on us redoing content that we have already completed, as in weapons as well as completing the star chart on regular and steel path mode for every level of it.

As many people say, warframe is basically just some power fantasy. Do cool stuff. Feel cool doing it. Pretty sure basically going back to the start is the opposite of that feeling.

[IDzer0]

My opinion on rank 40 items will never change. It's a wonderful feature, allowing us to have much more mod capacity than standard 30 rank weapons.

For instance, standard rank 30 melee weapons have 70 capacity if you include the stance mod, while the capacity for rank 40 melee is 90. This is a huge boost, allowing for many different builds without the need of using additional formas.

Primary and secondary weapons with max rank of 30 have 60 mod capacity, while having 80 when it hits rank 40. Again - huge boost.

As of today I could not imagine having max rank 30 on Necramechs, because we would have to forma almost all slots (like 9 - 11 formas), considering that the primed mods might be added in the future.

Overall this is one of the best features we could have had implemented in this game so far and reasoning it with the time a forma requires to craft means that you just occasionally drop them. I buy forma bundles mostly, but if you don't want to spend platinum on those do some 1h survival/disruption runs (solo or in a group) and open intact relics with formas. I can guarantee that formas will no longer be a problem if you will do it quite frequently.

[DrBorris]

On 2020-11-07 at 5:48 PM, auxy said:

Thanks for your judgemental, unhelpful drive-by post!

I don't think that was unreasonable at all. Why do you need to max these weapons, why do you feel as though your hand is being forced to put five forma on them? If you are going to complain why a thing is bad you need to give the context of why you are needing to do a thing.

Imagine if I complained that maxing a weapon's build took 5-6 Forma on average, most people would tell me to not worry about maxing every weapon's build. The bonus 1k Mastery from rank 40 was already only marginally useful, now that we can reach MR30 without making anything rank 40 the incentive (besides maxing a build, in which case you already need those 5 Forma) isn't there besides completionism.

If you like the weapon, put on the Forma (something you would have to do anyway). If you don't like the weapon, don't put on the Forma.

And if the reason you are doing a thing is only that you want to do the thing (completionism), the ground you are standing on is mighty shaky.

[auxy]

10 hours ago, IDzer0 said:

My opinion on rank 40 items will never change. It's a wonderful feature, allowing us to have much more mod capacity than standard 30 rank weapons.

For instance, standard rank 30 melee weapons have 70 capacity if you include the stance mod, while the capacity for rank 40 melee is 90. This is a huge boost, allowing for many different builds without the need of using additional formas.

There is no melee weapon in the game that needs 90 capacity even without 5 formas. When you add the 5 polarity slots all you're doing is limiting build diversity at that point.

Primary and secondary weapons (particularly secondary weapons) can sometimes make use of the extra capacity but usually not after 5 forma. With one specific exception, all of my kuva weapons have 20+ capacity free.

4 hours ago, DrBorris said:

I don't think that was unreasonable at all. Why do you need to max these weapons, why do you feel as though your hand is being forced to put five forma on them? If you are going to complain why a thing is bad you need to give the context of why you are needing to do a thing.

You can't get all the mastery out without putting the 5 forma on. I want all the mastery. It's not that complicated.

4 hours ago, DrBorris said:

And if the reason you are doing a thing is only that you want to do the thing (completionism), the ground you are standing on is mighty shaky.

No, it isn't. You don't get to call my argument weak just because you don't feel the same way. YOU don't care about getting all the mastery. I do.

All this talk about mastery rank 30 or whatever is irrelevant. It's about the mastery number, of course, and 1K mastery is another 1/3 mastery. After 3 kuva weapons it's a whole extra weapon! Except, I wish it WAS a whole extra weapon because then I wouldn't have had to burn 15 formas just to get that mastery.

It's player-hostile and I can't believe anyone is in favor of it. I guess you guys must buy iPhones.

[DrBorris]

16 minutes ago, auxy said:

No, it isn't. You don't get to call my argument weak just because you don't feel the same way. YOU don't care about getting all the mastery. [b]I do.[/b]

All this talk about mastery rank 30 or whatever is irrelevant. It's about the mastery number, of course, and 1K mastery is another 1/3 mastery. After 3 kuva weapons it's a whole extra weapon! Except, I wish it WAS a whole extra weapon because then I wouldn't have had to burn 15 formas just to get that mastery.

It's player-hostile and I can't believe anyone is in favor of it. I guess you guys must buy iPhones.

Your reason isn't because it affects gameplay.

It isn't because it affects fashion.

It isn't because it affects monetization.

It is because you want a meaningless number (total mastery points, not even mastery rank) to be higher.

 

I don't see it as any more player hostile than requiring six forma to max out a weapon's build. I understand that you care about your mastery experience, but if someone said that they cared about making sure every weapon had a maxed build then complained about needing too much Forma I wouldn't care much for their opinion either.

I am not in favor of slapping Rank 40 on every weapon. It should be something special only put on equipment that can somehow justify the increased power. Liches, Paracesis, and Necramechs all in my opinion are "special" enough to justify it. Rank 40 should not be the standard, but I see no problem with it being a special bonus given to weapons that it makes sense on.

And resorting to an ad-hominem at the end there is a really bad look.

[RenzorTheRed]

Of course they'll be 5 forma rank 40 weapons. They're corpus equivalents of liches.

What I don't get is the whole 'queen pin' concept. Why are these corpus liches an all-female thing? I get it with the Grineer. They have a matriarchal society with the queens on top and using genetic engineering and cloning to craft whatever troops they want. But the corpus? They don't have some sort of female-thing. It's weird.

[IDzer0]

13 hours ago, RenzorTheRed said:

What I don't get is the whole 'queen pin' concept. Why are these corpus liches an all-female thing? I get it with the Grineer. They have a matriarchal society with the queens on top and using genetic engineering and cloning to craft whatever troops they want. But the corpus? They don't have some sort of female-thing. It's weird.

Seems Parvos is a ladies man 😉

Anyways, I don't mind it being this way. Let us wait for when they ship it, then we can provide feedback.