(PSN)lydon123 Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 After many many relic runs on various mission types, I have come to hate the reactant collection we need to open our relics. Especially on survival missions. I have seen players get close to having 10/10 only for the last 1 or 2 reactant needed to never drop. It's happened to myself and i'm sure many other players. Now, short missions like captures, sabotage, exterminate etc drop reactant like hot cakes but endless missions, not so much. I've been in defences where the whole team have failed to hit 10/10 reactant because I guess someone killed the waves too quickly. I only run short mission types now as at least i'm garanteed to open my relic and it's usually much quicker to run them back to back and open 2 relics in the space of 4 minutes or less rather than waste 5 minutes on survival or defence and get nothing because reactant failed to drop. The reactant collection system is outdated, unreliable, unecessary and punishes players on endless missions for either killing too fast or spreading out across the map too far. I would rather my relic open automatically every rotation like when we had void keys. The reactant system truely is unnecessary but that's just my take on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)Gamma83 Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 True , for any endless missions such as survival , interception etc... the reactant are very scarce for some reasons. Whereas in extermination or capture reactant comes very easily. i always wondered why is that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltage Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 This has been said time and time again over the last 4 years. Relics should just open when extracting. The whole reactant mechanic is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)LorgarAurelion3 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Yeah it's really hard to get any relics open on survival missions when everyone is wandering around. Not to mention how infrequently corrupted drop reactant. Honestly I think they should get rid of the entire system in void missions, where every enemy is corrupted. It just doesn't make sense why they have to be double corrupted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Madurai-Prime Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 This is also a player issue, not just the game: People need to have a modicum of patience and not kill enemies that haven't been converted. People need to not run 250 meters away from their group. People need to not speed past massive handfuls of enemies just to complete the objective and try to get 10 reactant between the 400 meters to extraction. On the game side: make enemies convert to fissure enemies faster. I've stood in front of a massive group spawn that takes forever to convert or just doesn't convert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamazuki Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 hour ago, BahamutKaiser said: challenge. Fairly certain nothing about the reactant system can be considered challenging, not even if you want to use the stimulating task line. It's just bad game design for the sake of bad game design. Without a bad case of bad rng, most missions have the same completion time as their non-fissure counterpart. Capture is really the only mission where clear time is impacted by the existence of reactant without garbage rng being involved. However, one might say that capture could just be deleted from the mission pool and reactant can just go bye bye. I personally rarely run into issues with reactant, but I am also someone who believes that when a system does literally nothing other than cause frustration occasionally, it needs to be removed. Reactant as a system doesn't do anything most of the time, and other than needing to pick them up, it hardly does anything to how people play. The existence of reactant is only relevant during moments of bad rng where not enough dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)Gamma83 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Il y a 2 heures, BahamutKaiser a dit : OH NO! Terrible anecdotal experience! You'll take vaguely longer to open a relic! You guys do know you can... stick together, throttle till foes are contaminated, aaaand, you don't lose relics that fail to open, they just go back in your inventory. This is a basic case of L2P. right , what about every relic run in public where people always kill them before ? i don't see any challenge in that except that it makes it impossible on endless missions on multiple occasions in public because the enemies takes ages to turn into corrupted and all others players juste kill them before anyway. especially when you arrive when the relic is already 2min started in and there's only 3min left. Maybe it's less of a problem on pc , but on console, especially with the long loading screen to get to the mission , good lord. and it happens very very often. And it's not at all a challenge it's just bad design. why does it take a minute in extermination , sabotage or capture to have 10 reactants and why does it take so long in every endless missions ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzykrow Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 @(PSN)lydon123The reactant drops are ok imo. My advice for survival missions are stick to your team or the team stays together until you crack your relic then explore. As the enemy spawn will happen more frequently in closer proximity if you are close together. If you have a random team that are scattering well... tough luck but again you can check their progress (up right in your UI screen to the player status it will tell how many they have gathered) and follow the mate that has the most reactant. If you alone, the team is away and the enemy corruption and reactant drops are in your area. Please be a good Tenno and mark/ping the area or reactant and tell them at chat you have reactant (just type "Reactant" and they get the message) so the others may come and collect them - more choices of loot for you . ☺️ My most annoying part is the grind to gather those void somethings to upgrade the relics. Other than that its ok, no need for DE to change something. Hope it helps. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadi880 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 In a game that expects co-op and is advertised as such, player doesn't do "co-op" and gets mad when the game punishes them for it. I have a better suggestion: If 2 or more players are within their affinity radius, an reactant they collect will be doubled. This includes void traces, since the void traces drop If a player are not within any affinity radius, no reactants will drop. Sticking together is something all co-op games will encourage it one way or another. If you are not going to stay with your team, you should be in solo mode, not public or recruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIREEK Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Reactants were introduced to avoid AFK gameplay and to make longer missions feel similar to shorter ones, a survival lasts longer than a capture, so fissures had this slow but steady ammount of units that dropped reactant, making a simple capture last 5 minutes, just like the survival. They do not want you to afk nor speed run capture missions, period. To address problems they implemented the current system, which works for the most part except in lith and meso where certain misssions i honestly refuse to do, due to the issues with reactant collecting. They adressed 1 single gamemode which was exterminate, so essentially either you do exterminate or you're screwed or potentially screwed. I'm still waiting for them to implement exterminate changes to all the other game modes and i've been waiting a long time time now. You wouldn't believe how many times i have done survival where i'm the only one collecting all the 10 reactant, sometimes in the last 5 seconds, yes it's possible but most players will strugle, because you need to pay attention to the ui, who picked up reactant and where, to the audio of the fissures and you seriously need to move, in fact many players will complain in chat that they still haven't got the reactant and the only reply i can give is a simple "we cannot pick them up for you", the time spent moaning in chat could be used to aquire the missing reactant, i know because i have seen it many times, the issue is that it's to tight, the margin of error is very small and only the very best aquire them. If you blink, then you'll miss your chance. There is also the issue of entering an ongoing mission, if you miss 1 or 2 reactant then those 3 to 4 minutes may be wasted. Is it possible to aquire 10 reactant in a survival (lith/meso)? Yes, but you need to work to get there. Some players prefer to complain, some want to old system (altought it's boring), me personally would simply request that exterminate changes are applied to the other gamemodes, doing corpus ship defense (yeah that big map that no one likes) and then not getting the reward at the end is just torture, that's it, torture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzykrow Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 @KIREEK Yeah at some modes are problematic to gather reactant (Looking at you Defence, Interception and low lvl capture missions) but I believe the real problem are the low spawn rates (No enemies -> No targets to Corrupt -> Low Reactant acquirement) At least that is I have observed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soy77 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 or, idk... instead of REACTANT SYSTEM IS BAD DELETE IT FROM THE GAME!!! why not just remove longer missions from relic opening quests? i think more people already seems to prefer opening relics on shorter missions anyway. even if you fail, you lose like what... 1.5 minutes of your time? so if all reactant missions are captures and rescues, probably exterminate, sabotage at max, everybody can open their relics and we all can be happy family. no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)Gamma83 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Il y a 2 heures, Soy77 a dit : or, idk... instead of REACTANT SYSTEM IS BAD DELETE IT FROM THE GAME!!! why not just remove longer missions from relic opening quests? i think more people already seems to prefer opening relics on shorter missions anyway. even if you fail, you lose like what... 1.5 minutes of your time? so if all reactant missions are captures and rescues, probably exterminate, sabotage at max, everybody can open their relics and we all can be happy family. no? actually , many in this topic , and myself included , find it problematic only for what are called "endless mission" (defense , interception , survival ) all other non-timed mission are fine somehow. Not only because it's not timed , but also because for some reasons enemies don't take ages to turn into corrupted version that can drop reactant , making reactant way faster to get. Whereas in survival mission if you are in public you have to pray god sometime to be able to gather the 10 reactants , especially if you arrived 1 or 2min after the mission already started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soy77 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 48 minutes ago, (NSW)Gamma83 said: actually , many in this topic , and myself included , find it problematic only for what are called "endless mission" (defense , interception , survival ) all other non-timed mission are fine somehow. Not only because it's not timed , but also because for some reasons enemies don't take ages to turn into corrupted version that can drop reactant , making reactant way faster to get. Whereas in survival mission if you are in public you have to pray god sometime to be able to gather the 10 reactants , especially if you arrived 1 or 2min after the mission already started. exactly, my friend. so if hypothetically DE removes the "endless missions" from relic opening, and limits the mode just for shorter non-timed missions only, then hypothetically nobody need to wait for enemies who take ages to turn into corrupted version that can drop reactant, nor they need to have to pray god sometime to be able to gather the 10 reactants. but that's just my ramblings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)Gamma83 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 il y a 7 minutes, Soy77 a dit : exactly, my friend. so if hypothetically DE removes the "endless missions" from relic opening, and limits the mode just for shorter non-timed missions only, then hypothetically nobody need to wait for enemies who take ages to turn into corrupted version that can drop reactant, nor they need to have to pray god sometime to be able to gather the 10 reactants. but that's just my ramblings yes that was i was saying/thinking basically aswell. Either make the mission only "non endless" ones. Or make it so that the enemies get corrupted as quickly and drop reactant as often as non endless mission. or even simply make every ennemies appear directly as "corrupred" as soon as they spawn. (the 2nd proposal is mostly because in good team many enjoy survival for example, and also because loading screen on console takes ages so i would understand if having more loading than actual gameplay would be a bit tedious overtime) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 On 2020-11-09 at 2:22 AM, BahamutKaiser said: It's fine, stop asking for the game to be void of challenge. I love watching you people claim that bad mechanics are a "challenge" and therefor good for the game. On 2020-11-09 at 6:07 AM, Tzykrow said: My advice for survival missions are stick to your team or the team stays together until you crack your relic then explore. You have fun trying to explain that to literally anyone and getting them to listen. I can't even get the sweaty MR 30 players in my alliance to stay in the same goddamn room during a survival to stop spreading spawn all over the map, stop nuking non-corrupted enemies, and mark reactant for people if it drops in a different room. I catch flak and get called a control freak for even suggesting that people in pubs not screw up the entire point of being in the fissure in the first place and stick with the team and not run off chasing red triangles at least until we get all the reactant. I got yelled at by pubs for extracting after the first round in a survival because we didn't pop the goddamn relic because everyone wanted to be a stubborn jackass and run from every other player. I got yelled at for "being a leech" because I was in a defense and only targeting enemies that were a direct threat to the pod or already corrupted. Nevermind that I was in Ember and nuking as soon as we had all reactant to speed through the remaining waves, and had top kills and damage. They saw me ignore enemies that weren't near the pod and weren't corrupted, so obviously I was leeching. People have zero clue or inclination to care about the spawn mechanics in this game (and the fact that they suck.) so they just do whatever they want and it completely screws up fissures due to the reactant system. And on that, the ONLY benefit to the reactant system is the alleged benefit of it preventing afkers. I've still had afkers who have joined, done nothing, collected reactant once it was all down, then stopped moving again, making us wait out the extraction timer. It solves nothing, it provides nothing, and because of spawn mechanics and bugs, it very frequently creates pointless frustrations, and no, those pointless frustrations are not "challenge". When the system actually works like in a mobile defense or sabotage, there is no change to the mission. There's no extra difficulty outside of slightly higher level enemies that are slightly stronger. There's no new mechanics or added difficulty or anything. When it doesn't work, it's not added difficulty, it's a mechanic refusing to cooperate through either spawn breaking or reactant just not dropping fast enough. When it actually works, it's no different than just running the mission and getting a prime part. I did the mission. Open my damn relic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UdsUds Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Here is my post a few months ago: Each time I'll see a "Remove Reactant" I will AUTO UPVOTE so maybe the devs will listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaoGarrent Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 On 2020-11-09 at 2:22 AM, BahamutKaiser said: It's fine, stop asking for the game to be void of challenge. How about you stop strawmanning people's arguments and address them as stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UdsUds Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 To add to this when I'm blazing solo on low level exterminate sometimes I fail to open my relic. I know its bad on my part but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teridax68 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 I fully agree with the OP, the reactant system is pointless and only has any meaningful effect when a player joins a non-endless mission too late to get 10. The corruption buffs to our frames and weapons do nothing for missions that are trivially easy to complete without them already, and the rifts full of Corrupted have caused DE many AI headaches. Given that reactant simply means we get to open our relics after killing a few enemies (which we typically do anyway in most misisons), we might as well just automatically get to open our relics by the end of the mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xombob89 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Yep made numerous threads about it myself but usually I only get few replies saying "its your fault" lol. The system is very flawed, its extremely easy to end up with 9/10 reactant on any mission by playing like you normally would. Currently, you have to actively slow down your gameplay to make sure you get enough, which is not always possible in public games. Theres also commonly bugs that stop reactant or enemies from spawning. Its also extremely missleading and confusing for new players, how are they supposed to know you cant activate all excavators or conduits when the game tells them to do it... Edit: oh and this happens almost daily, like today reactant just stopped spawning on capture... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CephalonCarnage Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Reactant is fine, though I can understand why peopel get anxious thast not enough will drop on endless missions (which are the only ones I tend to do), the problem is the players speedrunning through killing everything in seconds. That's where your anxiety comes from. If you shot the enemies as they came at you, you'd have enough reactant by wave 3. If you kill them all using abilities so any reactant that does drop is in spawn points, then expect to not get enough. Its that simple. Play the fissures like a suitably levelled player would, go into a Lith defence mission with a rifle and shoot things, you'll get all the reactant. But that seems to be too hard for most who simply blast away. The one time I failed to open the relic was a mobile defence mission - one player nuked everything asap. Everyone had 8 reactant and no more enemies spawned. All were bewildered, but it isn't the game's fault it doesn't hand out free sweets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)lydon123 Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 On 2020-11-09 at 11:07 AM, Tzykrow said: @(PSN)lydon123The reactant drops are ok imo. My advice for survival missions are stick to your team or the team stays together until you crack your relic then explore. As the enemy spawn will happen more frequently in closer proximity if you are close together. If you have a random team that are scattering well... tough luck but again you can check their progress (up right in your UI screen to the player status it will tell how many they have gathered) and follow the mate that has the most reactant. If you alone, the team is away and the enemy corruption and reactant drops are in your area. Please be a good Tenno and mark/ping the area or reactant and tell them at chat you have reactant (just type "Reactant" and they get the message) so the others may come and collect them - more choices of loot for you . ☺️ My most annoying part is the grind to gather those void somethings to upgrade the relics. Other than that its ok, no need for DE to change something. Hope it helps. Have fun. Will have to agree to disagree. Reactant drops are fine in short missions, terrible in endless missions. I should not have to follow someone around to scrounge up reactant. I always try to stick with the team but everyone usually just goes off on there own. I'm not going to try and tell people how they should play the game either. If they want to go off and do there own thing then i've no right to try and make them do otherwise. I know it's weird to join a pub game just to go solo half way across the map but people do and I get it, people wanna play alone but not alone, if that makes sense. What's the point of these lovely, detailed, big maps if you have to stick like glue to eachother in 1 or 2 rooms to get good enemy spawns. Seems counter intuitive. I stopped playing those mission types anyway. It just makes more sense to run a capture or sabotage or play survival solo. You are correct. There may not be a real need for DE to change it but that doesn't mean they should not change it. I don't need to make better mash potato but I will add different seasonings and try to make it taste better. The reactant system could be better. Strive for better or settle for mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)lydon123 Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 On 2020-11-09 at 11:19 AM, Aadi880 said: In a game that expects co-op and is advertised as such, player doesn't do "co-op" and gets mad when the game punishes them for it. I have a better suggestion: If 2 or more players are within their affinity radius, an reactant they collect will be doubled. This includes void traces, since the void traces drop If a player are not within any affinity radius, no reactants will drop. Sticking together is something all co-op games will encourage it one way or another. If you are not going to stay with your team, you should be in solo mode, not public or recruit. That's actually a good suggestion and would encourage people to stick together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)lydon123 Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 2 hours ago, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said: And on that, the ONLY benefit to the reactant system is the alleged benefit of it preventing afkers. I've still had afkers who have joined, done nothing, collected reactant once it was all down, then stopped moving again, making us wait out the extraction timer. It solves nothing, it provides nothing, and because of spawn mechanics and bugs, it very frequently creates pointless frustrations, and no, those pointless frustrations are not "challenge". When the system actually works like in a mobile defense or sabotage, there is no change to the mission. There's no extra difficulty outside of slightly higher level enemies that are slightly stronger. There's no new mechanics or added difficulty or anything. When it doesn't work, it's not added difficulty, it's a mechanic refusing to cooperate through either spawn breaking or reactant just not dropping fast enough. When it actually works, it's no different than just running the mission and getting a prime part. I did the mission. Open my damn relic. There is already a system in place for people who afk or so I thought. If you are inactive for 2 minutes (dont move more than 5 meters or obtain a weapon kill), then you get no rewards at the end. I don't afk like ever so i'm not sure how it really works tbh. I just read the wiki and assumed you get 0 rewards if afk for 2 mins, even after collecting reactant. Citation needed lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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