Jump to content

Reactant for relics is just bad.


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, UdsUds said:

To add to this when I'm blazing solo on low level exterminate sometimes I fail to open my relic. :crylaugh::facepalm:

I know its bad on my part but still.

But how?! I run xaku and finish exterminates in 1:30 and hit 10/10 in the first 30 kills. You must be really blazing through xD

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, gbjbaanb said:

Reactant is fine, though I can understand why peopel get anxious thast not enough will drop on endless missions (which are the only ones I tend to do), the problem is the players speedrunning through killing everything in seconds. That's where your anxiety comes from. If you shot the enemies as they came at you, you'd have enough reactant by wave 3. If you kill them all using abilities so any reactant that does drop is in spawn points, then expect to not get enough.

Its that simple. Play the fissures like a suitably levelled player would, go into a Lith defence mission with a rifle and shoot things, you'll get all the reactant. But that seems to be too hard for most who simply blast away.

The one time I failed to open the relic was a mobile defence mission - one player nuked everything asap. Everyone had 8 reactant and no more enemies spawned. All were bewildered, but it isn't the game's fault it doesn't hand out free sweets.

If I speed run a defence and nuke everything then indeed I will fail to get reactant and naff off the whole team. However if I blaze through an exterminate, sab or capture with a max range xaku and a horrific disregard for all life then it's 10/10 reactant, mission complete in under 2 minutes and the whole team is happy. Reactant collection doesn't make me anxious, it just perplexes me that I can't play a survival how i'd normally play it and open relics at the same time but I can blitz through the shorter missions as normal. In my opinion, reactant is not fine in endless missions.  

A mobile defence? A timed mission and a player nuked everything so much you couldn't get enough reactant. I'm going to say it's totally the games fault. You did your time bro. You and the rest of the team played the mission and should have got the sweets at the end. It's not the fault of the player who is nuking. He's playing the objective. If everything is dead then nothing can hurt the objective. But then the game gives players the ability to become walking nukes so still the fault of game design either way. 

Edited by (PSN)lydon123
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The "you have to wait for enemies to turn/can't activate excavators/you can't do the objective/you have to let enemies capture points in interception/you have to let life support drop" nonsense I'm reading is absolutely mind boggling.

"Oh it's to prevent afk play by forcing players to be afk to let enemies turn" what kind of logic is that?

---

If there's nonsense in the game it's this system. I've joined too many matches and saw others join "too late" to crack my or their relics, how is that okay? "Yeah but you get it back" sure, but also wasted my time.

People defending this ...

Like, how is it negatively affecting you when DE increases the damn drops? Or change the system so it is more engaging instead of us having to actively sabotage the mission to be able to crack the relics?

Makes no sense, at all.

  • Like 9
Link to post
Share on other sites
Il y a 12 heures, gbjbaanb a dit :

Reactant is fine, though I can understand why peopel get anxious thast not enough will drop on endless missions (which are the only ones I tend to do), the problem is the players speedrunning through killing everything in seconds. That's where your anxiety comes from. If you shot the enemies as they came at you, you'd have enough reactant by wave 3. If you kill them all using abilities so any reactant that does drop is in spawn points, then expect to not get enough.

Its that simple. Play the fissures like a suitably levelled player would, go into a Lith defence mission with a rifle and shoot things, you'll get all the reactant. But that seems to be too hard for most who simply blast away.

The one time I failed to open the relic was a mobile defence mission - one player nuked everything asap. Everyone had 8 reactant and no more enemies spawned. All were bewildered, but it isn't the game's fault it doesn't hand out free sweets.

once again, no , it's not "that simple".

Having the success of your relic rely solely on other player in public run is simply not ok especially considering that each fail is a 5min time waste in most endless.
In excavation for example if people keep digging while killing enemies before they turn into corrupted , there is really nothing you can do.
And in lith excavation it happens all the time, and it's just an example among many.

You shouldn't be penalized for playing in public (with players that don't know about such thing) especially since there is no in-game explanation on the matter for reactant.

If even in mobile defense , one of the easiest to get 10/10 reactant (aside from extermination / sabotage / capture) you couldn't get 10/10 , think about excavation and other where you are literally on a timer and can't do a thing because public players kill things too fast.

Having other players in random be the 100% key-factor on the success of something is not a good thing.
Atleast with boss and other mission if the other players are not good you can do better than them and make the mission a success despite that , but here ,  one bad apple in the group can lead in a utter failure and a waste of 5 min of time.

I can understand that being the case for spy mission in sortie which is the "end-game" in non-steel path which has the requirement of completing the star chart once and hence have quiet a bit of knowledge in the game,  but on every-day relic runs for even newcomers ?  no.
 

Edited by (NSW)Gamma83
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, (PSN)lydon123 said:

But how?! I run xaku and finish exterminates in 1:30 and hit 10/10 in the first 30 kills. You must be really blazing through xD

Its the level 5-15 ones and with the right build you  can do it in less than 1:30.., that is if you want to be like me and getting surprised that the relic did not open. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BahamutKaiser said:

Love to see you identify a straw man, I didn't make any false claims about your argument, it is in fact a short amusing story about a real event. Granting you that I accept your claim is real. It's still just your experience, most players can hack it, and it's trivially easy. 

Nowhere was difficulty even mentioned in the OP. That this was in any way part of the original post was your assertion, and yours alone, which is made worse by the fact that even a basic understanding of what's being discussed would reveal that the problem here is often a case of the game punishing the player for being too good rather than in any way bad. Ergo, not only is it a design flaw, but it's a design flaw the punishes players who build and play their Warframe correctly.

What you did is a textbook example of a straw man argument, and a particularly bad one at that. Your denial of such does not change this fact.

Edited by XaoGarrent
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, BahamutKaiser said:

Demonstrating several failure states and asking for them to be eliminated is stated difficulty, or do you need it to be spelled in crayon for you? 

I've seen multiple posts like these in this thread from the same poster. I think it's safe to say that this person isn't looking for a discussion.

ON TOPIC:
The problem with Reactant is rooted in its design. Specifically, it clashes with both the intended mode of play in several game modes and with the common habits of a plurality of players. In the former, it requires players to artificially extend the duration of several mission types which can otherwise be done faster. And no, I'm not just talking about Capture. Excavation, for instance, can allow a larger team of players to split up and run multiple excavators at once. This is non-viable for Fissures, meaning that players have to instead all stay together and work on just one excavator at a time. Similarly, Interception missions benefit from a team guarding all Towers and reaching 100% quickly. However, this is often too quick to collect Reactant, so players are forced to let the enemy hold some or all towers for a time deliberately, in order to extend the timer.

In the latter - it's easy to claim that "Warframe is a team game! Just play with your team!" This is almost never viable, however, as players on public matchmaking teams can almost never be actually controlled. They don't read chat, they don't care about objectives. One can't "stay with the team" if the team itself is scattered to the four winds. This is a common problem in ESO, in fact, where players spread out too much making it impossible to leech benefit from Tenno Affinity. Moreover, the best way to get Ractant is to wait for enemies to become Corrupted and not kill them until then. Not only does this go against the game's normal flow (which is why pubbies will almost always kill them too quickly), it goes against the design of multiple mission types where allowing enemies to persist leads to failure. It's also difficult to tell Corrupted enemies apart from non-corrupted ones, especially in the Void.

Arguably worse, though, is what I mentioned before. A well-coordinated team can divide tasks and do them quickly and efficiently. This is non-viable in Fissures, meaning the game mode itself works counter to proper teamwork and coordination. DE have gone so far out of their way to combat AFK leechers that legitimate players end up suffering in the long run. From lack of loot-sharing to Tenno Affinity to all of these mission design limitations forcing players to trail each other like a family of ducks, the experience of legitimate players suffer in order to fight the impact of freeloaders. I'm not convinced it's a worthwhile trade.

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, BahamutKaiser said:

Demonstrating several failure states and asking for them to be eliminated is stated difficulty, or do you need it to be spelled in crayon for you? 

If your artistic skills are anything like your reasoning skills, you would sooner eat the crayons.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

I'm not convinced it's a worthwhile trade.

It's absolutely not.  The entire reason basic missions and things like fissures can be so boring is that most can be solo'd but you generally have a whole squad in the mission.  The lack of optional or simultaneous objectives, lack of loot sharing, etc all mean that it's essentially 3 players following the sweatiest player through the mission, maybe picking off stragglers.  We see even splits in damage/kills/etc on the mission summary screen so rarely that people actually take the time to screen cap and share them on the subreddit and in discords when they happen.  And the only benefit to any of this is that the leeching players are still leeching, but they have to wiggle a controller or KB/M every couple of minutes and they don't get as many resources.  

The most fun I have in this game is when there are multiple objectives like in a Kuva Siphon, and the team divides up to take everything down faster.  I had Fortuna bounties bug out so bad once that all the stages were available at the same time and we simultaneously hit all the bounty stages at once.  It was a blast.  Heaven forbid.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Specifically, it clashes with both the intended mode of play in several game modes and with the common habits of a plurality of players.

Actually that's demonstrably not true. The intended mode of play in fissures is to wait for the enemies to turn.

So if a team doesn't understand that and kills everything in sight instantly, it's like running a defense mission but go off exploring the map for loot and wondering why the mission fails.

You run a fissure, you have to play the mission parameters. Which are explicitly not "kill everything quickly".

Very high level, experienced players being stupid and stubborn. Well there's a thing 😀

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

I've seen multiple posts like these in this thread from the same poster. I think it's safe to say that this person isn't looking for a discussion.

ON TOPIC:
The problem with Reactant is rooted in its design. Specifically, it clashes with both the intended mode of play in several game modes and with the common habits of a plurality of players. In the former, it requires players to artificially extend the duration of several mission types which can otherwise be done faster. And no, I'm not just talking about Capture. Excavation, for instance, can allow a larger team of players to split up and run multiple excavators at once. This is non-viable for Fissures, meaning that players have to instead all stay together and work on just one excavator at a time. Similarly, Interception missions benefit from a team guarding all Towers and reaching 100% quickly. However, this is often too quick to collect Reactant, so players are forced to let the enemy hold some or all towers for a time deliberately, in order to extend the timer.

In the latter - it's easy to claim that "Warframe is a team game! Just play with your team!" This is almost never viable, however, as players on public matchmaking teams can almost never be actually controlled. They don't read chat, they don't care about objectives. One can't "stay with the team" if the team itself is scattered to the four winds. This is a common problem in ESO, in fact, where players spread out too much making it impossible to leech benefit from Tenno Affinity. Moreover, the best way to get Ractant is to wait for enemies to become Corrupted and not kill them until then. Not only does this go against the game's normal flow (which is why pubbies will almost always kill them too quickly), it goes against the design of multiple mission types where allowing enemies to persist leads to failure. It's also difficult to tell Corrupted enemies apart from non-corrupted ones, especially in the Void.

Arguably worse, though, is what I mentioned before. A well-coordinated team can divide tasks and do them quickly and efficiently. This is non-viable in Fissures, meaning the game mode itself works counter to proper teamwork and coordination. DE have gone so far out of their way to combat AFK leechers that legitimate players end up suffering in the long run. From lack of loot-sharing to Tenno Affinity to all of these mission design limitations forcing players to trail each other like a family of ducks, the experience of legitimate players suffer in order to fight the impact of freeloaders. I'm not convinced it's a worthwhile trade.

Firstly, I appreciate your response. Yet. 

Having run hundreds of rounds of excavation to the point of acquiring every primed item and not needing to do fissures anymore... I personally know that it's an achievable task. As I said in a previous response (I think...) you can mark reactant. Your never running more than two excavators intentionally in a void fissure, and you have 4 players to perform the mission. 

I know my experience differs from others, because I'm usually the one making sure everyone is performing in a mission, I bring Frost so the excavators are protected, I time the excavator launches so they aren't done too fast or too slow, I mark reactant on a split, I can void dash 1000 meters twisted over a map in 5 to 10 seconds to collect reactant where the rest of the team is, I coach allies to withhold the final power cell till I see all players have 10 reactant, which I count for all allies on the top right of the screen. 

What your referencing is a challenge I enjoy and easily crush, mechanically, almost instinctively, in almost subconscious programming, and I can make it work for a whole squad. It only takes one super competent person to make an excavation fissure work, you can usually tell if your allies are despondent in 4 excavators and just early extract and reform a party till you have squad mates who are competent. Then when you do have a competent group, you run 16 to 32 excavators, effortlessly. 

This thread is exaggerating a completely manageable task, it denigrates a very practical challenge which is, for me at least, rather comfortable, and typifies the axiom that players will suggest things that destroy a games value just to avoid failure.

And that's an important quality, Failure. Failure states determine challenge, everything from progressing too slowly to actual party wipe is a form of failure, and the different degrees of failure help make the challenge less binary. Failing to get enough reactant between excavators, or getting less rewards from partial excavators are minor failure states. These failure states offer players the challenge to seek better performance. 

Maybe it doesn't work for everyone, yet I loath the notion that a game has to be made E for everyone just so anyone can succeed, while performance players will be woefully under served. The saddest thing is, it's not even difficult, it just takes strategy. Just because somebody hasn't surpassed this challenge doesn't mean it's broken. 

I appreciate that your willing to reason the subject, we don't need anymore chauvinist in denial slinging ad hominem because they refuse to accept a refutation. But if your still not convinced, you have my screen name, add me on PC and I'll show you in game how trivially easy it is. At some point I'll have to start recording my gameplay to demonstrate how to play the game effectively, because it's ridiculous what some ppl believe. 

Now if the arguement is that some ppl can't figure it out, that some ppl aren't good enough players to overcome the challenge, that's understandable, not everyone can achieve the same performance. But then I would ask if they have adopted an effective strategy. Because if they are failing simply due to lack of strategy rather than ability, they should learn to play, not beg changes. 

BahamutKaiser, on PC, come and see for yourself. 

Edited by BahamutKaiser
Link to post
Share on other sites

~

I'm angry but...

4 hours ago, BahamutKaiser said:

 

You should be asking to bring back RAID if you really wanna OVER perform. In your example, excavation you can just increase the amount of excavation to 400 cryotic to open the relic. You baby sit the players, but if the 400 cryotic is required you will need to EXPECT everyone one in your group to do a DIG themselves and it is more engaging don't you agree?.

~

I'm calling "DE-Scott" coz slashing enemies like butter is bad, relic not open. hehe

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, gbjbaanb said:

Actually that's demonstrably not true. The intended mode of play in fissures is to wait for the enemies to turn.

That's ignoring the fact that "fissure missions" are not a separate game mode, but a modification on existing game modes. Fissures are not all that different from Lich missions or Nightmare missions, in that you're still running the underlying game mode. It is this underlying game mode that the Fissure modification clashes with - and that's a problem when multiple existing game modes are otherwise decently well-designed. I cited Excavation and Interception because they're one of the few things in Warframe with a capacity for division of labour under normal circumstances. However, this division of labour makes completion TOO efficient to collect Reactant, meaning that players end up having to disregard this otherwise good design, and engage in a far more reductive gameplay loop.

Yes, technically a mission can't go against its own design because whatever gameplay it has is definitionally its intended gameplay, but that's a play of semantics. In practice, Fissures require players to deliberately play poorly and slowly in order to account for a system which is - I assert - not well-designed from the perspective of compelling gameplay. However, I also recognise that Fissure missions are not designed to be fun. They're aimed at Warframe's secondary market, where the only consideration is limiting supply so as to drive demand and pump up trade prices.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Fissure missions are not designed to be fun. They're aimed at Warframe's secondary market, where the only consideration is limiting supply so as to drive demand and pump up trade prices.

Good point there but on the quoted part, RNG is already a thing. Relic mission is designed for free players to grind for the stuff which in terms IMO is FUN. Frustration really comes from reactant. Old tower days we only pray for RNGesus; Now you would pray that your teammate is NOT a Volt nuking the entire room in mach speed "before you even load in OR before the enemy turns corrupted". 

Link to post
Share on other sites

As a host on exterminate sometimes I afk just for the fourth man to load in. Only to get in to NO enemies left because the 2nd and 3rd man already cleared the map.

The 4th man decides to flame the host. :nerd:

~

  • In terms of the WAY of the relic
    • Why not make all enemy corrupted even before the mission start, instead of having it require that void hole fissure thing to make them corrupted? Similar to invasions.
    • Removed it completely and adjust mission objective to be harder as some players wants to be challenged. (see.. 3rd major bullet below.. NM effects) 
  • In terms of afk relics will only open if you are at the extraction point. (We don't care about leech, Sometimes I even compete to get the most KILLS with my butter slicing skills)
    • Flag players not moving for 2-5 mins and be extracted. edit Does not flag if group is invite only...
    • Requires players to perform an objective of some sort (depends on the mission:: do a bullet jump 50 times.)
  • Make fissure per whole planet, includes assassination probably. (Not related to topic)
    • Taxi is allowed 
    • Enemy level subject to change
    • Added nightmare effects and others.
      • Nullifying planet please. (not for the faint-hearted)
      • Most enemies are Prosecutors (if you like melee.. well.. !@# hehe)

I will bury the hatchet on Sabotage reward amount nerf adjustment, if DE decides to implement the things above.

If you are thinking this will ruin market you maybe right but RNG is there. (Flash back of 20 rad straight forma/common run.)

This is way way fun. 

Edited by UdsUds
edit
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

However, I also recognise that Fissure missions are not designed to be fun

That's a poor view of the situation. Shooting things is fun (ask all the players running around with guns), nuking them with a handwave is ... well, I guess its your idea fo fun, but its more that you're focussed on speedrunning the results and bypassing the game as much as possible. If you shot them as a MR1 player would, you'd have the reactant. You can play excavation missions just the same, defend each excavcator normally and as the enemies drop reactant you just have to run around to collect the few drops at each site. That's not hard to do.

Yes, its a modification of existing game modes. Like Nightwave, where you have no shields, or Sorties where you have bow only restrictions. Here, the restriction is "wait a moment for golden enemies".

You can even still nuke them, you just have to wait a whole minute before doing so.

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, UdsUds said:

~

I'm angry but...

You should be asking to bring back RAID if you really wanna OVER perform. In your example, excavation you can just increase the amount of excavation to 400 cryotic to open the relic. You baby sit the players, but if the 400 cryotic is required you will need to EXPECT everyone one in your group to do a DIG themselves and it is more engaging don't you agree?.

~

I'm calling "DE-Scott" coz slashing enemies like butter is bad, relic not open. hehe

This is what's called a Red Herring. Nobody is advocating for additional difficulty. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

There seems to be two main points everyone defending the reactant system are making:

1. "Stop speedrunning/nuking" - First of all this only works solo or with friends, on random squads theres always someone who doesn't listen or understand. Secondly you dont even have to "speedrun" to fail, just play eg. Disruption normally and you dont get enough. This is simply flawed system no way around it. 

2. Its to prevent AFK - it does next to nothing to prevent that, the reactant stays on ground nearly forever so you can just afk as much as you can (before other afk measures kick in) and collect all 10 at the end of the round. 

Im not trying to make fissured faster by demanding change, I just want them to work every time regardless of teammates actions (not counting losing objective). Heck, make it 3 excavators and 5 conduits and 6 minutes survival, I dont care as long as the 10th reactant is guaranteed... 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, gbjbaanb said:

That's a poor view of the situation. Shooting things is fun (ask all the players running around with guns), nuking them with a handwave is ... well, I guess its your idea fo fun, but its more that you're focussed on speedrunning the results and bypassing the game as much as possible. If you shot them as a MR1 player would, you'd have the reactant. You can play excavation missions just the same, defend each excavcator normally and as the enemies drop reactant you just have to run around to collect the few drops at each site. That's not hard to do.

You're projecting a bit too much, friend. It's funny that I have to point this out so often, but no - I'm not "nuking" or "speedrunning." I'm the sort of player who opens all the lockers, breaks all the containers and visits all the dead end rooms. I don't have much of anything left to earn in Warframe (that I actually care about) and enough Plat to buy my Primed stuff if I actually want it. Attacking my character doesn't address the issue as presented.

The issue I've highlighted here is that Fissure missions work against Warframe's team component and serve to turn what few complex game modes the game actually has reductive. Having additional pubbies on the team makes collecting Reactant harder since pubbies typically kill enemies before they turn. Plenty of mission modes require killing enemies quickly - so often before they turn - as leaving them alive causes them to destroy defence objectives. Multiple mission types can - on the occasion of a coordinated team - be tackled via multitasking. This is counter-productive to attaining Reactant, meaning a potential for interesting coordinated gameplay is actually detrimental to success.

Yes, shooting things can be fun. If all Warframe were came down to sitting in one spot holding down M1, however, that wouldn't be enough to make for compelling gameplay. It's why Defence and Survival can be so aggressively boring long-term. Without additional complexity, Warframe boiled down to just its core mechanics isn't particularly entertaining. I still manage to forget this every so often, but a return to Payday 2 recently (yeah, that's still going) reminded me of just how much fun even basic gunplay can be when the game actually gives me a variety of objectives to tackle while doing it. Warframe has the capacity to do the same, but DE consistently undermine what objectives their game is actually capable of with repeated attempts to combat leeching and AFK.

 

10 hours ago, UdsUds said:

Relic mission is designed for free players to grind for the stuff which in terms IMO is FUN. Frustration really comes from reactant.

Eh. I'd argue that's a naive view of the situation. From my observations, Relic missions aren't designed for "free" players at all. They CAN be used for this, but what they're actually designed for is for market resellers. Yes, frustration does come from Reactant (and I'd argue the presence of auto-alerted Corrupted enemies making stealth missions annoying), but that's kind of the point. Reactant exists to slow down gameplay and ensure a minimum time investment in acquiring Primed components, specifically as a means of limiting their supply on the secondary market. That's why repeated criticism of Reactant and repeated proposals for improvements to Fissures have fallen on deaf ears for years. DE never address those, not even in passing on a Dev Stream. They'll talk about Railjack and Liches and Arcanes, they'll look at underused game modes or Warframes, but nary a word on Fissures. This tells me that Fissures aren't seen as deficient. They're working exactly as intended. We, the people who might want to get parts from them for our own use, might find them unfun, but we aren't their target audience.

It's obviously possible I'm reading far too much into this and I'm just flatout wrong. I'd love to admit this if we ever get changes to Fisures that actually improve the experience for the user, rather than the secondary marker reseller.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't mind the core reactant system, upgrading relics to achieve higher rarities isn't a punishing system and allows for some control over how fast the market gets flooded.

One of my main issues is echoed in OP's statement that reactant itself is a task to obtain; you accrue relics at a rate that far overshadows that of gathering reactant. 

I have seen it posted in various other threads, so I know I am not alone in this idea:

There needs to be a transmutation system, similar to the one we have for spare mods, that allows us to "dissolve" spare relics into reactant.

There is such an abundance of relics laying around that typically get cracked just to farm reactant, but that it part of the problem with the market being oversaturated.

While the rate of relic-to-reactant is obviously the next question, it wouldn't even have to be an absurdly large rate to make this system viable; 1 Lith Relic = 1 reactant would still be a good (and dare I say, much needed) change to the game.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, UdsUds said:

Why not make all enemy corrupted even before the mission start, instead of having it require that void hole fissure thing to make them corrupted? Similar to invasions.

Completely agree with this statement. Fully support. 

At the very least, have the void corruption spawn at a much higher rate than it currently does. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TehGrief said:

Completely agree with this statement. Fully support. 

At the very least, have the void corruption spawn at a much higher rate than it currently does. 

In another thread I suggested adding a short timer at the end of the round if players dont have 10 reactant, which would prevent the relic screen from popping up. 

For example, say its Disruption and all conduits are done but all players have only 8/10. The game would then pause but let enemies still continue spawning and corrupting like normal. After one or two players have 10/10 a timer of 30-60 seconds would appear to allow rest of the team get 10 and would then proceed to next round IMMENDIATELY after everyone is full OR the timer has ran out. 

This wouldnt fix all problems I guess but it would at least give everyone a good chance of success. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-11-08 at 11:06 AM, (PSN)lydon123 said:

After many many relic runs on various mission types, I have come to hate the reactant collection we need to open our relics. Especially on survival missions.

I have seen players get close to having 10/10 only for the last 1 or 2 reactant needed to never drop. It's happened to myself and i'm sure many other players. Now, short missions like captures, sabotage, exterminate etc drop reactant like hot cakes but endless missions, not so much. I've been in defences where the whole team have failed to hit 10/10 reactant because I guess someone killed the waves too quickly. I only run short mission types now as at least i'm garanteed to open my relic and it's usually much quicker to run them back to back and open 2 relics in the space of 4 minutes or less rather than waste 5 minutes on survival or defence and get nothing because reactant failed to drop. 

The reactant collection system is outdated, unreliable, unecessary and punishes players on endless missions for either killing too fast or spreading out across the map too far. I would rather my relic open automatically every rotation like when we had void keys.

The reactant system truely is unnecessary but that's just my take on it.

BRING BACK VOID KEYS!!!!!!

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe ditch reactants, make the relics crack at extraction and finally punish afkers manually after checking on n+1 edit: ingame reports on any mode like it supposed to work? Fissures aren't the only mode where people afk, and currently reporting afk players is much more effort than ignoring them. Reactants try to somewhat "fight" afkers, while making the missions way worse for everyone else as well, and still make far enough room for afk.

Edited by sitfesz
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...