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Upgrade Rest of the Game content to "Steel Path" Level for pros.


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1 hour ago, DrivaMain said:

Enforcing Steel Path everywhere and/or making it rewarding enough to make normal mode irrelevant is just a hopeless wish. Warframe's majority are casual players. DE will not scare them away.

I honestly do not know where and how you people adopted the term "casual" as being easy here in the warframe community, because apparently if it's casual it has to be ridiculously baby mode. I do get what you are trying to imply here, it's easy so everyone can get into it, but really it's not the case.

Casual means it's highly accessible, so anyone and everyone can enjoy it. Casual doesn't mean it's always is easy, for example take Tf2's MvM. It's accessible to everyone that mean anyone can play it. Is it hard? No, but it still gives you some form of challenge. But does hard mode exists in that game? Yes, take wave 666 for example. Wouldn't the hard mode scare away casuals? No, most people i see playing wave 666 are die hard casuals who would rather dance after pressing the start wave button or see ragdolls take flight. (unless we are talking about mann up mode and that would be a different story)

I myself highly doubt that steel path for the entire game wouldn't scare away casual players, if they want to play casually and are not looking for some challenges then go play the normal route, the option's still there and it's not like its going to be deleted like ever and warframe isn't forcing you to go steel path.

 

"What? Feeling like your weapons hit as hard as barbie dolls? Then just play normal mode, it's not like its going away any time soon."

 

 

TL;DR : No, Hardmode or SP won't scare people away from playing the game since people aren't forced to specifically play on that mode.

Edited by GenericAngerSniper
typo
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45 minutes ago, Genitive said:

I believe this example highlights the issue – either bring the wrong tools and you won't be able to do anything, or bring the right tools and trivialize everything. There is no in-between.

I saw people in this thread talk about modding right, which isn't exactly accurate. You have to bring the specific tools to a mission first. That begs the question – is the gamemode that removes the choice from players and pushes them into using a fraction of what is available to us really something that the game needs?

That is only true to an extent, when you think about it you can bring whatever weapons and simply mod them differently or apply them to the mission differently. I did most of Steel Path with a Nova, not because she's ideal but because she's fun to us for me. I could've used something better and made certain missions easier or faster but I chose not to for the sake of fun. What it does require when you go off the beaten track with your choices, more than anything else, is experience. And let's not forget that Steel Path was not introduced for the newer players so this is a reasonable expectation. My problem with Steel Path is that it's simply too easy and lumping more HP onto an enemy and calling it difficulty scaling is a very lazy, poor and unsuccessful way of implementing challenge.

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54 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

My problem with Steel Path is that it's simply too easy and lumping more HP onto an enemy and calling it difficulty scaling is a very lazy, poor and unsuccessful way of implementing challenge.

Oh yes, with that I can completely agree. Difficulty aside, the steel path is either boring or frustratingly boring. Like Lephantis.

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3 hours ago, GenericAngerSniper said:

I honestly do not know where and how you people adopted the term "casual" as being easy here in the warframe community

It’s a common knowledge among avid forum users. We use the term casual for people who do not like being challenged.

It’s common knowledge that every time DE locks away power items behind challenging content the community whines to DE being “too hard” and “tedious” and then DE listened and take action. I can list some examples.

  1. Fortuna’s launch. There was a special subforum for Fortuna. A lot of post demands Orb Vallis enemies to be “easier” to deal with. Then DE listened and nerfed Orb Vallis Mobs. 
  2. Railjack. It’s easy pretty to solo at launch. Yet players whine to DE to make it easier and less CO-OP focused and then Railjack Revised came along that make Railjack’s difficulty inline with the rest of the game.
  3. Arbitrations. It used to be “You die, You’re out”. Players complained of host migration problems and challenge and so the special revive system came along.
  4. The most recent example... Nihil Boss Fight. People complained that they can’t one shot or cheese it like your average Warframe boss.
3 hours ago, GenericAngerSniper said:

Hardmode or SP won't scare people away from playing the game since people aren't forced to specifically play on that mode.

Yes, I want it to stay that way. But I am seeing people demanding Steel Path to be rewarding. I can’t stop them, but know this. 
 

If Steel Path is rewarding that it makes Normal Mode irrelevant it will make players feel forced to do Steel Path if they want to be more efficient. With that, the “Make it Easier” crowd rises and complain to DE and we all know DE always listens to them. So, expect your bullet sponge and max spawn rate luxury to be taken away.

Edited by DrivaMain
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So would this 'challenge' be restricting conditional mods from usage for this Steel Path? Or what warframes you are allowed to use, and what mods or weapons ala some of the Tac alerts and the Grendel beacon missions? I don't feel there is any purpose for such deals unless they offer a clear and available upon completion reward for doing so, as honestly playing them proves almost nothing.

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1 hour ago, DrivaMain said:

If Steel Path is rewarding that it makes Normal Mode irrelevant it will make players feel forced to do Steel Path if they want to be more efficient. With that, the “Make it Easier” crowd rises and complain to DE and we all know DE always listens to them. So, expect your bullet sponge and max spawn rate luxury to be taken away.

'luxury' uhmm kay . 

To be fair , its on them whether or not they feel forced , if its not technically forced , the only thing they could worry about is getting better at modding for getting said better rewards for riskier content. 

I suppose watching 5 minute copy paste build videos shouldn't be that hard for a person to feel like a god in a video game ? 
Though i know getting better  and becoming self-dependant at modding in general require  lots of wiki reading and some tests in simulacrum but hey , power should be earned and i see no problem with that . What needs fixing is their mindset .

Edited by killerJoke66
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It's okay tho , i understand there are a group of players that want this game to stay as or become even more of a softcore/chill no brainer farming simulator , and inherently theres no problem with that , the problem is that their demands on everything to be available to them and not allowing even a single content island stand for exclusively for players that want some resemblence of hardness . 
We don't ask to DE to all the content to be hardcore or mechanics/knowledge heavy , just maybe 1-2 areas of little islands is enough but the second it comes out the outspoken ones on the casual community screech for nerfs that they cant do it so it must be nerfed/watered down .. (also funny how a year ago they were calling us long time players a mob mentality but in reality theyre the ones that resemble of an action of a real mob , forcing whatever they feel like on everyones throats  just for their taste.) 

Edited by killerJoke66
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1 hour ago, killerJoke66 said:

It's okay tho , i understand there are a group of players that want this game to stay as or become even more of a softcore/chill no brainer farming simulator , and inherently theres no problem with that , the problem is that their demands on everything to be available to them and not allowing even a single content island stand for exclusively for players that want some resemblence of hardness . 
We don't ask to DE to all the content to be hardcore or mechanics/knowledge heavy , just maybe 1-2 areas of little islands is enough but the second it comes out the outspoken ones on the casual community screech for nerfs that they cant do it so it must be nerfed/watered down .. (also funny how a year ago they were calling us long time players a mob mentality but in reality theyre the ones that resemble of an action of a real mob , forcing whatever they feel like on everyones throats  just for their taste.) 

I cannot agree more strongly with this. I've lost count of how many times I've had conversations over this and each time I've asked "is it ok to have just 1% of the game be a challenge for me while you enjoy the other 99% of casual play?" I've gotten no response.

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8 hours ago, Kimimoto said:

Why?

Because they're working on other things, maybe they have to get clearance or permission to make the change, maybe they want to talk it over with the team and discuss things first....etc etc. Who knows....

Are you thinking there's literally one button they press? And if so, why?

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8 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

False. One of the reason why "Bullet Sponge Haters" dislike Steel Path is because it's a strict gear check. Not as strict as Eidolons, but it does make your average off meta weapon or setup to be near unusable. I tried taking my 6 forma Hunter Munitions Battacor and Umbral Chroma to a Solo Steel Path interception. The weapon cannot keep up with the forced max spawn rate and the increased tankiness of enemies and the lack of AoE isn't helping it either.

Meanwhile... I can just whip out Limbo and banish everyone into the rift leaving them into indefinite stasis. Making it a walk in the park.

Enforcing Steel Path everywhere and/or making it rewarding enough to make normal mode irrelevant is just a hopeless wish. Warframe's majority are casual players. DE will not scare them away.

That's silly to even expect to take 1 single target rifle to a massive mob spawn interception. The battacors AoE alt fire is only like 4 meters as well, but still useful.

Some people keep using these terrible examples, and I see it all over the forums: "I took my sniper rifle to Steel path and I cant wipe a room with it...."

Well duh, maybe try using more than 1 weapon. Maybe try using your entire arsenal altogether.

And as its already been pointed out: interception is for locking nodes down. 

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7 hours ago, Genitive said:

I believe this example highlights the issue – either bring the wrong tools and you won't be able to do anything, or bring the right tools and trivialize everything. There is no in-between.

I saw people in this thread talk about modding right, which isn't exactly accurate. You have to bring the specific tools to a mission first. That begs the question – is the gamemode that removes the choice from players and pushes them into using a fraction of what is available to us really something that the game needs?

Yes, it is what the game needs. 

Spy missions are easier with stealth frames....even before Steel path. 

Defense missions are easier with defense frames or things that can heal objectives, even before steel path. 

Farming a specific resource is easier with farm frames...nuts huh? 

 

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5 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Some people keep using these terrible examples, and I see it all over the forums: "I took my sniper rifle to Steel path and I cant wipe a room with it...."

Lol I actually did that cos Rubico is my favourite weapon to use but I used a frame that complimented it not a Chroma :D

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I'm all for that, but with a twist. SE is harder, obviously, so it also should reward us a bit more.

I'm not saying "TRIPLE MAH RELIC/KUVA/WHATEVER REWARDS!11"

But if all DE does is "here you go, now you get 250 kuva instead of 200 from SP kuva survival, aren't we generous?!" then I will laugh at their attitude.

---

Make Sortie SP content

Make Arbitrations SP content

Make Fissures show in SP (same planets/missions, but increased levels)

Make Kuva liches as SP content (or make us pick between normal and SP for more murmurs, whatever)

Make kuva farming an actual thing. The current BULLSH*T kuva farm, be it siphons, flood or survival is a goddamn mockery, threating players as some china WoW gold farmers.

Same applies to cryiotic

 

Finally Make sortie rewards based to Steel Essence, Vitus Essence and even Kuva. Let it be interchangeable with varying ratios. It is possible, figure it out.

 

The greatest issue I have with this game right now is that all the different content in this game is separated. When you farm kuva, you cant farm anything else. Liches? the same (no, getting 300 kuva from lich slapping is a joke), arbitrations? All separated. And those contents arent worth grinding on their own in all honesty.

People avoid farming kuva, cause DE made sure it has most idiotic and unrewarding amounts to the point you either commit your whole day with boosters or you get nothing. People prefer to farm SP for kuva. Arbiters? has nothing beyond archgun rivens. Love the concept, but I detest the gameplay of "here's your RNG slot machine while you play endless mission" one time you get loads of VE, other times you get squat. Also it'd be DAMN nice if arbitrations used full 4-squad spawns in survival/defense as baseline, even if you play solo. Cause otherwise you can't solo them without looter frame

 

Rant_end.

 

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On 2020-11-12 at 2:56 PM, Xylena_Lazarow said:

Have you even played Steel Path? The build and gear checks can be met mid-game. There's a wide margin of error and a wide array of viable jank.

a) Yes, I've seen it. b) No, I don't partake in it because I don't run parties, go by "meta", or aim to be a min-maxer. I play for fun and the way I want to play. No party-ing up, no trying to min-max for "viable builds", no trying to show off via massive damage overloads, and not trying to grab everything within a few months instead taking my oh so sweet time on it hence why I'm still working on getting maxed with the various open world factions and haven't grabbed certain frames that I'll eventually get around to. Hell I can on bad days get wiped in Fortuna, cause I don't run with maxed out & forma'd stuff instead I run with whatever isn't maxed in my codex. 

On 2020-11-12 at 7:50 PM, GenericAngerSniper said:

Look mate, i've seen people complain about the difficulty issue that warframe has in many different platforms, youtube, reddit, you name it. It is quite a problem for the last 4 years, maybe more. It's a vicious cycle, DE simply can't make difficult or easy content without angering one side or another. OP is just trying to give a solution by adding a hard mode option to the game, that way easy and hard content can co-exist but then you just have to come here bashing this idea, as if you've been playing hydron for the past 6 hours.

 

I do acknowledge the group of "whining tryhards" that want more difficulty but at least the majority of them have a good reason, the lack of an actual endgame, warframe has been in this vegetative state for too long that people begin to confuse veterans with whiny tryhards. The complaints regarding ospreys and bursas being too powerful is to make the game feel fair, because then again to fight bursas and ospreys like that in level 100+ levels and you're going to die swiftly and repeatedly. But the problem that stands now is that when given a slight glimer of difficulty and the 'casuals' start to circlejerk reddit to complain about "how hard the new content was" while sending people off warframe that want a tiny bit of depth at some actual difficulty with different versions of this statement,

regarding them to no more than just toxic soulsbourne players, because apparently everyone who plays something harder than cookie clicker are sweaty MLG 420 noscopers.

 

 

 

Now this is epic, drive this conversation into talking about my snarky comment, more proof you're steaming than ever. Take this for your future endeavors.

Flame_Repellent.ea1ecc4cf2065e160fa39486

How exactly did I do that when I specifically presented 2 ways to interpret what OP said with only 1 of them having me being against it, while the other I literally said I was fine with? 

As for "endgame", that's a fantastical dream instead of a reality. If anything that's what caused the recent pre-Deimos string of stumbles with the devs trying to find something in the vein of it. We flow through different veins cause the only/main ones I've run across have been the ones complaining wanting more difficulty, talking down about anyone not blasting through 100+ enemies like they're nothing. Acting like everything in the game is easy cause they have all maxed out mods, maxed out gear, etc; these types would actually make a post wanting future content to be in-line with Steel Path.

Its funny how I already stated how one of my particular fav games is Horizon Zero Dawn, which is far from "cookie clicker". You min-max and whine about wanting something that'll pound you into the dirt instead of enjoying the game? The congrats you're a tryhard and I'll call you it.

rofl, riiiiiiiiight. I stub my toe and it'd generate more "anger" than anything here has. Don't project your nonsense onto me.

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I don't quite like the boring modifiers in Steel Path, the mode isn't hard, it's just boring when you have to do Grineer missions and most weapons don't work without specific compositions. Big part of why steel Path is the Boring Path is because it's just old content with modifiers that make some modes take longer for no good reason (because rewards are non existent there), the modifiers don't enhance anything.

 

I wouldn't mind however a proper hard mode that included Kuva and Fissures that made fundamental changes to missions to make them harder, uses content that we unlocked through the game and includes proper/good mini bosses (not Acolytes, that's just lazy recycling which will get boring very fast due to no variety) rather than making trash mods tanky for no good reason.

 

Higher level content is long overdue, but adding lazy and bad content such as Steel Path modifiers to old content won't make it hard nor better, it will just make the game boring.

 

Edited by God_is_a_Cat_Girl
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12 hours ago, CrimsonXX said:

I play for fun and the way I want to play. No party-ing up.

Same here, on Steel Path. I'm no pro or content creator. I'm not sure what point in the game you're at, but playing WF casually long enough will eventually get you going on Steel Path. In the meantime, instead of trying to dump on late game players on the forums, maybe appreciate that normal mode is still engaging for you, because sometimes I miss those days, and other longtime players even start new accounts just to progress through normal mode again.

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On 2020-11-09 at 4:08 AM, Aldain said:

Amen.

I'm tired of eHP being considered the only metric of "hard" in Warframe, when you can copy/paste a loadout and have the same success (assuming said copy/paster has more than one active brain cell) you don't have an action game, you have a puzzle game.

That said I would like to avoid a few other cliche's of "hard" content, like the antiquated "Stand here or die" mechanics often seen in MMOs and DPS checks (related to gear checks, but not entirely the same thing imo).

Also Agreed. I actually don't mind a gear check if I'm actually challenged in other ways. It gives players a long, but clear, path to progression of power. But the problem with Steel Path and all of the other attempts Warframe has had at anything hard (let alone endgame) is that the challenge ends there. We need skill checks in addition to gear checks.

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  • 4 months later...
Posted (edited)

OK, I get it - Add +100% Credit Bonus to all that in the first post of this thread. in addition to it being there on completion not just completion alone.
 

 because i saw a few people say the rewards arent good enough in steel path. it has 100% resource drop chance and 100% mod drop chance. THEY NEED TO ADD +100% CREDIT BONUS in Steel Path along with steel path Void Fissure, kuva, Syndicate, Arbitration, Invasions, + all those other modes up there in the 'events' section that i didnt list.

GG thanks for the constructive feedback thus far!

Edited by XJR15
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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

The necro these days...

nope, its constructrive, please constructive comments only - dont troll this thread its perfectly valid for DE to enhance like the addition of steel path itself as a whole

 

thank you.

Edited by XJR15
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il y a 3 minutes, XJR15 a dit :

nope, its constructrive, please constructive comments only - dont troll this thread its perfectly valid for DE to enhance like the addition of steel path itself as a whole

 

thank you.

Sure

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10 minutes ago, XJR15 said:

nope, its constructrive, please constructive comments only - dont troll this thread its perfectly valid for DE to enhance like the addition of steel path itself as a whole

 

thank you.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR8HoaEd1NnDpyV9X9tTPv

If you want me to elaborate, after reading a bit this discussion isn't going nowhere. 

I mean if you want to keep reviving it then someone is going to lock it eventually

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