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Summoner frame ideas


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On 2020-12-02 at 5:30 PM, (PSN)CoolTRG said:

using a system of killing an enemy with a weapon to summon minions isnt really an efficient way of doing it but i get what your saying, exalted summon slots is sommething summoners dream about since it would help with the constant problem of not doing enough damage

yeah, tbh summoners don't work too well as just summoners in warframe. Only real option seems to go full pokemon.

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On 2020-12-04 at 3:37 PM, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

yeah, tbh summoners don't work too well as just summoners in warframe. Only real option seems to go full pokemon.

 

summoners do work well its just that DE hasnt made a true summoner frame yet. pokemon style frames are a bad idea unless its like the one concepth for the armor/beast frame previously mentioned.

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On 2020-12-07 at 10:53 AM, (PSN)CoolTRG said:

 

summoners do work well its just that DE hasnt made a true summoner frame yet. pokemon style frames are a bad idea unless its like the one concepth for the armor/beast frame previously mentioned.

Ehh, I mean just with how the game plays a summoners just doesn't seem like a fun way to play.

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7 hours ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

Ehh, I mean just with how the game plays a summoners just doesn't seem like a fun way to play.

no the way the game works is fine its just that de is dumb and can barely make good frames.  a summoner frame would be good it just needs a kit for summoning, not a trashy single ability. we cant say a summoner frame wouldnt be good since there arent any in the game yet.

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3 hours ago, (PSN)CoolTRG said:

no the way the game works is fine its just that de is dumb and can barely make good frames.  a summoner frame would be good it just needs a kit for summoning, not a trashy single ability. we cant say a summoner frame wouldnt be good since there arent any in the game yet.

Nekros is a summoner, inaros is one, octavia, the cat lady, nyx has mind control and so on. Honestly the games ai just makes allied NPCs feel clunky and even though we've never had a true summoner I can't see it being engaging or fun.

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47 minutes ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

Nekros is a summoner, inaros is one, octavia, the cat lady, nyx has mind control and so on. Honestly the games ai just makes allied NPCs feel clunky and even though we've never had a true summoner I can't see it being engaging or fun.

nekros has a summoning ABILITY, Inaros has an ABILITY, nyx is just trash lol, octo and cat lady are the same too, just because they have summoning abilities doesnt make them summoners, summoners are based around summoning, they dont just summon stuff, they also have abilities that deal with those summons and other than octo none of them have that. you could have said rev is a summoner which he is i just don't like his aesthetic.

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When it comes to summoner, my mind always goes to an old ps2 game, Chaos Legion. 
The way summoning work in the game is pretty simple, you are able to equip 2 or 3 legion before each mission, each legion is different varying in the type of damage, range and utility. After being summoned they´ll float around you and you can toggle bettwen two behaviours, aggresive and passive.
in agressive, they´ll float around you, but they will break formation to attack any aproching enemy.
in passive, they´ll float around you, even if the enemies are right in front of them and they will only attack if given the orders.
They could also get "broken" if they recived to much damage, and you couldn´t use them until you fix them using the "energy" of the game.

So my idea would be:
Summon: By pressing the button you will be able to toggle between the three different summons (attack, defense and support). By holding the button you will spawn the selecter summon. In case that the summon is "broken" by holding the button while while the "broken" summon is selected you will consume extra energy to repair it.

Stand by/ Attack on sight: in "stand by" the summon will remain close to the summoner reciving an defense boost and blocking enemies atack, they will also slowly heal themselves. in "attack on sight" summons will attack enemies on sight, they will recieve an damage boost.

Order: order your summon to attack and use their abilities.
attack summon: a flurry of attack that cause high damage.
defense summon: create a shield that cover the summoner, protecting him from all type of damage.
support summon: grant buff to allies and debuff to enemies.

For the fourth ability it could simply be an exalted version of the summon, or a 4th powerful summon that break all the other summon when used and constanly cosumme energy.

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32 minutes ago, L4osk said:

When it comes to summoner, my mind always goes to an old ps2 game, Chaos Legion. 
The way summoning work in the game is pretty simple, you are able to equip 2 or 3 legion before each mission, each legion is different varying in the type of damage, range and utility. After being summoned they´ll float around you and you can toggle bettwen two behaviours, aggresive and passive.
in agressive, they´ll float around you, but they will break formation to attack any aproching enemy.
in passive, they´ll float around you, even if the enemies are right in front of them and they will only attack if given the orders.
They could also get "broken" if they recived to much damage, and you couldn´t use them until you fix them using the "energy" of the game.

So my idea would be:
Summon: By pressing the button you will be able to toggle between the three different summons (attack, defense and support). By holding the button you will spawn the selecter summon. In case that the summon is "broken" by holding the button while while the "broken" summon is selected you will consume extra energy to repair it.

Stand by/ Attack on sight: in "stand by" the summon will remain close to the summoner reciving an defense boost and blocking enemies atack, they will also slowly heal themselves. in "attack on sight" summons will attack enemies on sight, they will recieve an damage boost.

Order: order your summon to attack and use their abilities.
attack summon: a flurry of attack that cause high damage.
defense summon: create a shield that cover the summoner, protecting him from all type of damage.
support summon: grant buff to allies and debuff to enemies.

For the fourth ability it could simply be an exalted version of the summon, or a 4th powerful summon that break all the other summon when used and constanly cosumme energy.

The first and fourth abilities are actually pretty similar to my own Summoner frame "Hades". His second ability is the "order" ability, though, and due to the way his Hounds work active within stationary areas of effect, which can be relocated by hold-casting his first or second abilities) his third ability simply calls that summon to his side to follow him for a short time and offer a temporary buff correlating to which type of Hound it was.

Currently though only his fourth, free-roaming Exalted summon can be "broken"; the rest currently cannot be destroyed to make up for their limited range (i.e. can't simply be killed by enemies outside their effective range) but the Gates they come from will be dismissed if Hades moves too far from them, so you will need to learn to relocate them as needed with your abilities to maximize effectiveness.

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Suppose I can toss my Dheghom suit into the observable ring, albeit, I’m not exactly that certain what constitutes a “summoner frame” definitionwise beyond “a unit that brings in other units”. 
 

is there something more to it then that? Does a summoner need  abilities that can further command, enhance, and/or exploit the summoned? Or, is bringing in units enough?

 

(Just saw your description above, think only the Crone half of Dheghom fits that bill, given her ability to off her servants and convert them into pools of rotting chemical entropy.) 

Edited by Unus
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Okay so how about a summoner that's also a shaman in a sense. So I was imagining a sort of 4 beast summoner that has like tattoos or something and each of the tattoos will spawn a different animal that brings a different buff while also aiding in combat. When the beasts are out you can cast the ability again to use abilities centered at the summon. Idk I want a summoner, but I don't think it suits warframe still.

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On 2020-11-12 at 2:00 PM, (PSN)CoolTRG said:

As summoner being my favorite class i was quite disappointed that there are no good summoner frames. nyx is decent but not really summoning, atlas's rumblers don't do enough damage, Nekroses summons are good but are dumb as rocks and to make a successful summoning build you need to make all his other abilities bad or use helmlith, and revenant is just like nyx but more frustrating.  we need a summoner frame that actually has the aspects of a summoner, multiple summons, a way to command them, and damage scaling. 

So please show your concepts! i'd love to see them and I hope if we get enough, we might get a summoner frame!

So youre basically asking for a damage summoner. Like mesa but with summoned creatures as her 4th ability 

 

I can get behind that, but DE has this problem with players being afk and getting tons of kills. Ill come bck to your idea when im off work 

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On 2020-12-16 at 12:42 AM, L4osk said:

When it comes to summoner, my mind always goes to an old ps2 game, Chaos Legion. 

I use to play that game, and I loved it.

For OP: I'll take a crack at your prompt. I'm thinking something more along the lines of a Final Fantasy style of summoner. With a few set summons and abilities to interact with or synergize with them.

Edited by xZeromusx
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Spoiler

 

Umbriel, the void summoner. Call upon the spirits of the void to wreak havoc on your enemies.

 

Concept

Umbriel is a summoner style Warframe that summons and controls three void creatures via her void key. Her creatures include Vulcan, a void and fire kubrow like creature, Borea, a void and cold kavat like creature, and Astrape a void and electricity sentinel like creature.

 

Base Stats

Armor: 125

Health: 100

Shield: 100

Energy: 100

Speed: 1.1

 

Stat progression: Typical, +200% Health, +200% Shield, +50% Energy at rank 30

 

 

Passive: Umbriel’s key

Umbriel carries a void key fused to her frame which she uses to summon her void creatures. The key acts as an exalted companion and replaces her ability to equip normal companions. The void key equips and uses normal companion mods to affect Umbriel’s summons. Mods like Animal Instinct and Fetch are always on, but damage and stat mods are only in effect as long as Umbriel has a summon out.

 

 

Ability 1: Void Summon (25 energy)

Tap to cycle through Umbriel’s summons. Hold to summon the selected void creature at the targeted area. Each creature has its own basic attacks, which are augmented by mods equipped on Umbriel’s Key.

 

The currently selected summon is indicated by a UI mechanic above Umbriel’s ability bar. Unlike most summoned creatures, Umbriel’s summons act as a companion, and are unaffected by ability nullifying fields. Further, the companion's base elemental damage can be combined with Companion damage mods to create combined damage types as well. Though, these combinations will be overridden by Void Essence, which applies its damage to the base damage type, before mods.

 

Rank 0: Vulcan: A kubrow like void creature that inflicts both void and fire damage to enemies it attacks

Rank 1: Borea: A kavat like void creature that inflicts both void and cold damage to enemies it attacks.

Rank 2: Astrape: A sentinel like flying void creature that inflicts both void and lightning damage to enemies it attacks.

Rank 3: Doubles health, armor, shields, and damage of all summons

 

 

Ability 2: Astral Barrier (50 energy)

Umbriel creates a barrier of energy around herself which reduces all physical damage and prevents their status effects. The barrier is improved when Umbriel has a summon present.

 

Damage reduction is 40, 50, 60, 70%, capped at 90% and lasts 15, 20, 25, 30 seconds. When Umbriel has a summon present, the barrier also surrounds her summon, and gains Fire, Cold, or Electric damage reduction depending on the summon, or Radiation, Magnetic, or Blast damage reduction if the void summon is under the effects of Void Essence as well as gaining damage reduction to the base elements used to make those combinations. When the shield gains elemental damage reduction, it also nullifies status effects from those elemental damage types.

 

Example: If Umbriel has Vulcan out, and is under the effect of Void Essence from Astrape, the barrier will reduce physical damage, fire, electric, and radiation damage, as well as nullify status effects from those damage types.

 

Umbriel’s subsumed ability, with damage reduction reduced to 30, 35, 40, 45%, and no additional elemental damage reduction.

 

 

Ability 3: Void Essence (25 energy)

Umbriel infuses her weapons with elemental damage from the void creature currently selected by Void Summon. Umbriel’s currently summoned creature also gains elemental damage.

 

Umbriel infuses her weapons with 10, 15, 20, 25% additional fire, ice or electric damage for 10, 15, 20, 30 seconds depending on the currently selected summon on the void summon UI. (Not based on the currently summoned void creature)

 

If Umbriel has a summoned creature out, they gain 100% additional elemental damage of the selected element added to their BASE elemental damage, before mods. This means that the ability is multiplicative with equipped companion mods. This also means that Umbriel can combine base elements together to give her summon combined elemental damage types like Radiation, Magnetic, and Blast damage.

 

 

Ability 4: Astral Storm (0 Energy)

Requires a Void Summon. Umbriel sacrifices their Void Summon, returning them to the void to create a massive elemental storm at her location depending on the summon’s current elemental damage types.

 

Umbriel’s current void summon is sacrificed and returned to the void to power Astral Storm. At Umbriel’s location she creates a storm of elemental damage in a 10, 12, 15, 20 meter area depending on the summon’s current elemental damage types. This includes elemental damage mods equipped to Umbriel’s Key. The storm inflicts 100/200/300/400 damage per second of each damage type to enemies in the area for 10/12/15/18 seconds with a 100% status chance for all elemental damage types the storm creates.

 

This means that if Umbriel’s Key has Venom Teeth and Shock Collar equipped, the storm will have 100/200/300/ 400 additional Corrosive damage. If Umbriel’s pet is buffed by Void Essence to create a combined elemental damage type, like Blast, it will also have 100/200/300/400 additional Blast damage. So, the storm can have a total of 3 elemental damage types, including combined damage types.

 

I eagerly await feedback.

Edited by xZeromusx
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On 2020-12-20 at 12:12 AM, xZeromusx said:
  Reveal hidden contents

 

Umbriel, the void summoner. Call upon the spirits of the void to wreak havoc on your enemies.

 

Concept

Umbriel is a summoner style Warframe that summons and controls three void creatures via her void key. Her creatures include Vulcan, a void and fire kubrow like creature, Borea, a void and cold kavat like creature, and Astrape a void and electricity sentinel like creature.

 

Base Stats

Armor: 125

Health: 100

Shield: 100

Energy: 100

Speed: 1.1

 

Stat progression: Typical, +200% Health, +200% Shield, +50% Energy at rank 30

 

 

Passive: Umbriel’s key

Umbriel carries a void key fused to her frame which she uses to summon her void creatures. The key acts as an exalted companion and replaces her ability to equip normal companions. The void key equips and uses normal companion mods to affect Umbriel’s summons. Mods like Animal Instinct and Fetch are always on, but damage and stat mods are only in effect as long as Umbriel has a summon out.

 

 

Ability 1: Void Summon (25 energy)

Tap to cycle through Umbriel’s summons. Hold to summon the selected void creature at the targeted area. Each creature has its own basic attacks, which are augmented by mods equipped on Umbriel’s Key.

 

The currently selected summon is indicated by a UI mechanic above Umbriel’s ability bar. Unlike most summoned creatures, Umbriel’s summons act as a companion, and are unaffected by ability nullifying fields. Further, the companion's base elemental damage can be combined with Companion damage mods to create combined damage types as well. Though, these combinations will be overridden by Void Essence, which applies its damage to the base damage type, before mods.

 

Rank 0: Vulcan: A kubrow like void creature that inflicts both void and fire damage to enemies it attacks

Rank 1: Borea: A kavat like void creature that inflicts both void and cold damage to enemies it attacks.

Rank 2: Astrape: A sentinel like flying void creature that inflicts both void and lightning damage to enemies it attacks.

Rank 3: Doubles health, armor, shields, and damage of all summons

 

 

Ability 2: Astral Barrier (50 energy)

Umbriel creates a barrier of energy around herself which reduces all physical damage and prevents their status effects. The barrier is improved when Umbriel has a summon present.

 

Damage reduction is 40, 50, 60, 70%, capped at 90% and lasts 15, 20, 25, 30 seconds. When Umbriel has a summon present, the barrier also surrounds her summon, and gains Fire, Cold, or Electric damage reduction depending on the summon, or Radiation, Magnetic, or Blast damage reduction if the void summon is under the effects of Void Essence as well as gaining damage reduction to the base elements used to make those combinations. When the shield gains elemental damage reduction, it also nullifies status effects from those elemental damage types.

 

Example: If Umbriel has Vulcan out, and is under the effect of Void Essence from Astrape, the barrier will reduce physical damage, fire, electric, and radiation damage, as well as nullify status effects from those damage types.

 

Umbriel’s subsumed ability, with damage reduction reduced to 30, 35, 40, 45%, and no additional elemental damage reduction.

 

 

Ability 3: Void Essence (25 energy)

Umbriel infuses her weapons with elemental damage from the void creature currently selected by Void Summon. Umbriel’s currently summoned creature also gains elemental damage.

 

Umbriel infuses her weapons with 10, 15, 20, 25% additional fire, ice or electric damage for 10, 15, 20, 30 seconds depending on the currently selected summon on the void summon UI. (Not based on the currently summoned void creature)

 

If Umbriel has a summoned creature out, they gain 100% additional elemental damage of the selected element added to their BASE elemental damage, before mods. This means that the ability is multiplicative with equipped companion mods. This also means that Umbriel can combine base elements together to give her summon combined elemental damage types like Radiation, Magnetic, and Blast damage.

 

 

Ability 4: Astral Storm (0 Energy)

Requires a Void Summon. Umbriel sacrifices their Void Summon, returning them to the void to create a massive elemental storm at her location depending on the summon’s current elemental damage types.

 

Umbriel’s current void summon is sacrificed and returned to the void to power Astral Storm. At Umbriel’s location she creates a storm of elemental damage in a 10, 12, 15, 20 meter area depending on the summon’s current elemental damage types. This includes elemental damage mods equipped to Umbriel’s Key. The storm inflicts 100/200/300/400 damage per second of each damage type to enemies in the area for 10/12/15/18 seconds with a 100% status chance for all elemental damage types the storm creates.

 

This means that if Umbriel’s Key has Venom Teeth and Shock Collar equipped, the storm will have 100/200/300/ 400 additional Corrosive damage. If Umbriel’s pet is buffed by Void Essence to create a combined elemental damage type, like Blast, it will also have 100/200/300/400 additional Blast damage. So, the storm can have a total of 3 elemental damage types, including combined damage types.

 

I eagerly await feedback.

I like it, but you can get rid of the restrictions the passive gives tbh.

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Okay so I had an idea for an ice summoner since I realized we have literally one frame that uses cold. 

How about this 

Place holder name

Health: 1

Shield: 1

Energy: 500

Armor: 150

Stat progression: energy the whole way.

Passive: if you would take fatal damage you take 1/4 the amount as energy lost. 

Shares a health and energy shield pool with summons. 

It's late so I'm not thinking about summon stats, but I'd like them to be able to be modded. 

Ability 1: some snow rabbit thing that creates vortexes by running around in circles. When cast it will run to where you aim and run in a circle sending all enemies to the center and applying cold procs.

Ability 2: a snow fox that while active will passively create snow golems that will stay around the player soaking up hits, recasting while aiming at the enemy will have it curse them causing them to take increased damage and all damage will be able to apply cold procs.

Ability 3: a bird made of snow it flies around attacking enemies dealing puncture, cold, and blind. When recast it will land on the players shoulder for a duration causing damage to puncture, chill, and blind.

Ability 4: something like a beat I'll add it later.

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14 hours ago, (PSN)EmilsTekcor said:

I like it, but you can get rid of the restrictions the passive gives tbh.

I would keep the restrictions simply because of Astrape. While the game has instances of having 2 animal companions, I am not sure if the camera clutter will be better or worse with 2 sentinels out at once.

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Tree Summoner:

I think I've already mentioned that, but it is striking how much trees or growths have a presence in Warframe.

-Decoration for the dojo.

-in the Sacrifice Mission.

-You can see these blue / white plants again and again.

-the earth is partly overgrown by oversized trees.

-Talent Tree Naramon.

 

The only problem is that Oberon, Wisp and Xaku look like they have more or less this topic.

Oberon even has an incantation that he spreads on the floor.

Since Lavos is a kind of elementalist who owns all elements, we now need a Warframe that is less elementary.

The best topic for the summoner would be * targeting * with less poison, fire, ice, lightning element.

 

Ability 1:

Small self-seeking projectiles, so conjured birds, rats, bats.

 

Ability 2:

Something to survive, just throwing armor would be too boring.

 

Ability 3:

Something to support, enemies will be blinded, slowed down, firmly rooted.

 

Ability 4:

An evocation that has it all shouldn't be too reminiscent of Nyx or necro's ability.

 

I think I already mentioned the side parts, but they are not enough for a Warframe.

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My own central priority for a summoner 'Frame is starting with devising an ability to fill in the gaps to make existing options into sensible damage, that is contingent on an active element. More specifically, owing to Revenant, Nekros, Nyx, Inaros, the Synoid Heliocore, the Ballistica Prime, and how Specters at large operate, the buff in question should make up for the EHP/damage differential of enemies, as most targets will be operating under that paradigm of inefficacy.

The point where health, armor, and shield scaling turn linear is at level 80, at which point health has an almost exactly 100x multiplier, shields have roughly a 47x multiplier, armor has a roughly 13x multiplier, and damage has roughly a 14x multiplier. This means needing an overall damage multiplier of about 7x to reset the damage/health ratio, but most enemies have terrible damage to health ratios, initially. A Prod Crewman takes seven hits after the regenerating shields to kill another Prod Crewman at level 1. But it gets considerably worse: Level 80 Ancients deal 1041 damage on a successful drag, and 635 on the melee attack that shares the animation, while having 40k health. Assuming the same 7x "leveling" multiplier, that means needing six hits with the drag to be lethal, which is glacial in terms of weapon kills.

To use Venari as an example for Companions, as I'm rather obviously thinking of the necessary damage for , she can readily have a 115.5% Critical Chance and 5.2x Critical Multiplier with 512 damage, assuming one 60% Elemental mod, a rank 9 Maul, a rank 8 Bite, and a maxed Hunter Synergy while using a Dread or Kuva Chakkhurr with Point Strike. This means that in actuality it's 2,662 damage per hit, increased to 18,634 if we keep with the 7x starting point of the buff. The Kuva Chakkhurr itself is dealing 62,730 damage on the guaranteed regular crits for bodyshots, of which slightly over 25,000 is a 2.9m AoE that falls to 70% at its edges, so this remains rather decidedly a poor total, but then my Venari is incomplete; a fully kitted out Venari will make up most of the deficit over the AoE, and the Kuva Chakkhurr is going to be predominantly for cracking the extreme heavies.

---

In beginning to specify the nature of the damage bonus, my most immediate consideration is Companion diversity. Therefor, Viral procs are a mandetory component, so as to reduce prevalence of Panzer Vulpaphyla by covering its primary particular benefits. Viral procs offer 100% increased damage, and 25% more per stack, with a maximum of ten stacks for 325% increased damage. Let us assume the ballpark to be five procs for 200% increased damage, leaving us with a 3.5x multiplier, or 250% increase, to meet our "leveling out" function. And now I must decide on a small piece of the concept in question so as to figure the precise nature of the last leg of the bonus.

I'll go with creatures that produce a 5m cloud, attaching to a target for their attack to apply a second, different, helping to what they are attached to, selecting behavior based on the target of the ability; tapping with no target has them roam and swipe for mild damage. As Viral procs last six seconds by default, we need a proc every 0.8 seconds to meet our five stack benchmark. For accessibility, let us assume a mere 160% Ability Strength for the benchmark exercise, giving us a 50% baseline Status Chance per second. To make it truly a Summoner's ability, let's have the assumption be overlapping two on a given target, so nix the base Status Chance to 25%. For the primary target, the additional effect can be a 2:1 split of Slash and Toxin damage with a separate 75% Status Chance, giving us reasonable counteraction of both Grineer and Corpus defenses with Viral-boosted Bleed and Poison procs.

For the damage bonus, 250% is rather large as such things go. For stacking purposes, the baseline area property shall be a 30% bonus to attack speed and a 40% bonus to movement speed, making the direct attachment bonus need to source 69% additional damage, which shall be boosted to a baseline 50% bonus for aesthetic reasons to get an 80% bonus. This shall be in the form of Gas damage to thoroughly offset this rounding-up, reducing the effective bonus to 40% against Grineer and 60% against Corpus. Remember, this benchmark is for 160% Ability Strength to be sure reasonably easy to acquire builds can clear the star chart not-completely-torturously, and you're boosting Fire Rate alongside for an exponential improvement, so crazypants Blind Rage/Overextended Umbral builds will be capable of pushing forward to reach being sensible for Steel Path, if only for enabling slightly more diversity of builds.

Summarizing this and filling in the gaps, the baseline level 3 statistics of the ability will be 200 health, 5m radius gas clouds with 25% Status Chance and 70 Viral damage, 30% bonus to attack speed, 40% bonus to movement speed, inflict 100 Slash and 50 Toxin damage per second with 75% Status chance to an attached enemy, add 50% Gas damage to an attached ally, dealing 100 Impact damage if it's out on its own, lasting 15 seconds, costing 50 energy per cast, and allowing a maximum of four of them at once. To continue on to further abilities, we must complete defining the kind of summoner. Given that we are using some variety of parasitic creature and two different Toxin combinations, let us go with a predominantly insectile plague, as opposed to Saryn's theoretically fungal variety. Let's set the previously-explained ability offering the damage bonuses needed to meet the most basic level of viability in enabling sensibly-timed mirror-matches as the 2.

For the 1, I'll go with varying upon the typical minor damage ability for 25 energy, using a launched parasite that inflicts 200 Puncture damage on impact, then Slash and Corrosive over time at a rate of 75 each per second, remaining on the outside of the enemy as it leeches away health, getting 10% of the damage dealt as health, up to 300. Shoot it to have it pop for Corrosive damage equal to five times the health in 5 meters, leave it for three seconds to have it hatch as a small minion that lasts for five seconds with that health and dealing twice its health as Slash damage on hit, kill the enemy to feed 20% of its maximum health to both functions.

With the 3, I'll move on to focusing the other end of the Companion problem: Things are basically made of glass. So for the third ability, I'll go with a nice and blunt 150 health and 300 armor for 10 seconds to all allies in 10m. Also does 25% extra for allies a 2 minion is attached to and gives bonus Puncture damage to the 1. For actual Companions, this double-dips thanks to the Link mods, which makes for actually quite good durability from all the Armor going on.

Then the 4 is the basically-mandetory Exalted companion, in the form of a bug-queen thing with properties from each of the abilities, getting 5% of its sizable-by-baseline health as Corrosive damage, spent on variants of the abilities when close to full. "Vents" above 80% by rapidly spawning 200-health half-duration examples of the 1 minions for 5% of heath each, spends 10% of the "storage" on executing a drawn-out single-target attack to attach a minion from the 2 while passively having the benefits offered by it, and will spend 15% if it falls below 60% health or ends up above 90% to immediately cast a half-radius version of the 3 centered on itself if it doesn't already have the armor. Definitely cooldowns to avoid a waterfall of chaff when you bring Pack Leader.

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14 hours ago, Banelingline said:

My own central priority for a summoner 'Frame is starting with devising an ability to fill in the gaps to make existing options into sensible damage, that is contingent on an active element. More specifically, owing to Revenant, Nekros, Nyx, Inaros, the Synoid Heliocore, the Ballistica Prime, and how Specters at large operate, the buff in question should make up for the EHP/damage differential of enemies, as most targets will be operating under that paradigm of inefficacy.

The point where health, armor, and shield scaling turn linear is at level 80, at which point health has an almost exactly 100x multiplier, shields have roughly a 47x multiplier, armor has a roughly 13x multiplier, and damage has roughly a 14x multiplier. This means needing an overall damage multiplier of about 7x to reset the damage/health ratio, but most enemies have terrible damage to health ratios, initially. A Prod Crewman takes seven hits after the regenerating shields to kill another Prod Crewman at level 1. But it gets considerably worse: Level 80 Ancients deal 1041 damage on a successful drag, and 635 on the melee attack that shares the animation, while having 40k health. Assuming the same 7x "leveling" multiplier, that means needing six hits with the drag to be lethal, which is glacial in terms of weapon kills.

To use Venari as an example for Companions, as I'm rather obviously thinking of the necessary damage for , she can readily have a 115.5% Critical Chance and 5.2x Critical Multiplier with 512 damage, assuming one 60% Elemental mod, a rank 9 Maul, a rank 8 Bite, and a maxed Hunter Synergy while using a Dread or Kuva Chakkhurr with Point Strike. This means that in actuality it's 2,662 damage per hit, increased to 18,634 if we keep with the 7x starting point of the buff. The Kuva Chakkhurr itself is dealing 62,730 damage on the guaranteed regular crits for bodyshots, of which slightly over 25,000 is a 2.9m AoE that falls to 70% at its edges, so this remains rather decidedly a poor total, but then my Venari is incomplete; a fully kitted out Venari will make up most of the deficit over the AoE, and the Kuva Chakkhurr is going to be predominantly for cracking the extreme heavies.

---

In beginning to specify the nature of the damage bonus, my most immediate consideration is Companion diversity. Therefor, Viral procs are a mandetory component, so as to reduce prevalence of Panzer Vulpaphyla by covering its primary particular benefits. Viral procs offer 100% increased damage, and 25% more per stack, with a maximum of ten stacks for 325% increased damage. Let us assume the ballpark to be five procs for 200% increased damage, leaving us with a 3.5x multiplier, or 250% increase, to meet our "leveling out" function. And now I must decide on a small piece of the concept in question so as to figure the precise nature of the last leg of the bonus.

I'll go with creatures that produce a 5m cloud, attaching to a target for their attack to apply a second, different, helping to what they are attached to, selecting behavior based on the target of the ability; tapping with no target has them roam and swipe for mild damage. As Viral procs last six seconds by default, we need a proc every 0.8 seconds to meet our five stack benchmark. For accessibility, let us assume a mere 160% Ability Strength for the benchmark exercise, giving us a 50% baseline Status Chance per second. To make it truly a Summoner's ability, let's have the assumption be overlapping two on a given target, so nix the base Status Chance to 25%. For the primary target, the additional effect can be a 2:1 split of Slash and Toxin damage with a separate 75% Status Chance, giving us reasonable counteraction of both Grineer and Corpus defenses with Viral-boosted Bleed and Poison procs.

For the damage bonus, 250% is rather large as such things go. For stacking purposes, the baseline area property shall be a 30% bonus to attack speed and a 40% bonus to movement speed, making the direct attachment bonus need to source 69% additional damage, which shall be boosted to a baseline 50% bonus for aesthetic reasons to get an 80% bonus. This shall be in the form of Gas damage to thoroughly offset this rounding-up, reducing the effective bonus to 40% against Grineer and 60% against Corpus. Remember, this benchmark is for 160% Ability Strength to be sure reasonably easy to acquire builds can clear the star chart not-completely-torturously, and you're boosting Fire Rate alongside for an exponential improvement, so crazypants Blind Rage/Overextended Umbral builds will be capable of pushing forward to reach being sensible for Steel Path, if only for enabling slightly more diversity of builds.

Summarizing this and filling in the gaps, the baseline level 3 statistics of the ability will be 200 health, 5m radius gas clouds with 25% Status Chance and 70 Viral damage, 30% bonus to attack speed, 40% bonus to movement speed, inflict 100 Slash and 50 Toxin damage per second with 75% Status chance to an attached enemy, add 50% Gas damage to an attached ally, dealing 100 Impact damage if it's out on its own, lasting 15 seconds, costing 50 energy per cast, and allowing a maximum of four of them at once. To continue on to further abilities, we must complete defining the kind of summoner. Given that we are using some variety of parasitic creature and two different Toxin combinations, let us go with a predominantly insectile plague, as opposed to Saryn's theoretically fungal variety. Let's set the previously-explained ability offering the damage bonuses needed to meet the most basic level of viability in enabling sensibly-timed mirror-matches as the 2.

For the 1, I'll go with varying upon the typical minor damage ability for 25 energy, using a launched parasite that inflicts 200 Puncture damage on impact, then Slash and Corrosive over time at a rate of 75 each per second, remaining on the outside of the enemy as it leeches away health, getting 10% of the damage dealt as health, up to 300. Shoot it to have it pop for Corrosive damage equal to five times the health in 5 meters, leave it for three seconds to have it hatch as a small minion that lasts for five seconds with that health and dealing twice its health as Slash damage on hit, kill the enemy to feed 20% of its maximum health to both functions.

With the 3, I'll move on to focusing the other end of the Companion problem: Things are basically made of glass. So for the third ability, I'll go with a nice and blunt 150 health and 300 armor for 10 seconds to all allies in 10m. Also does 25% extra for allies a 2 minion is attached to and gives bonus Puncture damage to the 1. For actual Companions, this double-dips thanks to the Link mods, which makes for actually quite good durability from all the Armor going on.

Then the 4 is the basically-mandetory Exalted companion, in the form of a bug-queen thing with properties from each of the abilities, getting 5% of its sizable-by-baseline health as Corrosive damage, spent on variants of the abilities when close to full. "Vents" above 80% by rapidly spawning 200-health half-duration examples of the 1 minions for 5% of heath each, spends 10% of the "storage" on executing a drawn-out single-target attack to attach a minion from the 2 while passively having the benefits offered by it, and will spend 15% if it falls below 60% health or ends up above 90% to immediately cast a half-radius version of the 3 centered on itself if it doesn't already have the armor. Definitely cooldowns to avoid a waterfall of chaff when you bring Pack Leader.

I like it

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  • 4 weeks later...

hey guys i would like to discuss a topic on how you think a summoner frame should be built and how their relationship between their abilities and their stats should be structured along with their strengths and weaknesses.

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12 hours ago, (PSN)CoolTRG said:

hey guys i would like to discuss a topic on how you think a summoner frame should be built and how their relationship between their abilities and their stats should be structured along with their strengths and weaknesses.

When it comes to Warframe, I think the primary thing one should try to avoid is what they did to Grendel. Essentially, you don't want to create a frame that is SOLELY linked to certain criteria. In Grendel's case, it's having to always have an enemy consumed in order to cast any of his other abilities. Even in the case of Nidus, who requires stacks in order to use two of his abilities is more acceptable, but still perhaps not ideal. However, at least in Nidus' case, he's able to generate stacks and keep them without having to consume energy to keep them. Meanwhile, Grendel not only requires an enemy consumed to cast his three other abilities, but also has to spend energy to maintain the consumption as well as foot the cost of casting his 2 or 4 (3 is free, but still). 

So, that's the first thing I would avoid at all cost when developing a summoner frame. Avoid hinging his abilities on a previous condition being met. IMO, it makes the frame very disjointed and clunky. It's an easy pitfall too when speaking about a summoner frame, to create a cool, bad ass summon, only to feel like you have to centralize everything around that summon, and forget to make the frame's abilities work without the summon present.

On the other hand, you also don't want to make the summon(s) entirely meaningless when it comes to the frame's other abilities. The goal is to create synergy without creating subservience to the summon, but also without making the summon valueless.

That's why the suggestion I made (and ended up creating a separate post for with some changes) allowed for two of the abilities to have functions without the need for a summon, but become far better when the summon was present, and even more so when other conditions were met.

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13 hours ago, (PSN)CoolTRG said:

hey guys i would like to discuss a topic on how you think a summoner frame should be built and how their relationship between their abilities and their stats should be structured along with their strengths and weaknesses.

Really, a summoner wf can be built for anything...

My reqs tho

1.) No small summons. Nidus maggot summon is not exciting by much, another warframe doing it would just be depressing...

2.) Variety. Dont summon just 1 type, do multiple. And preferably make 1 of the summons rather large

3.)  Some summons should deal Damage. I would go for a dps based off the player type of mechanic. Most other summons in warframe are cc and agro, not dmg.

4.) I think the warframe should recieve the most benefit from not being alone. Else why be a summoner wf if your summons cant actually help you well enough

All i got for rn, i just realized i need sleep, gn

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On 2021-01-25 at 5:43 AM, xZeromusx said:

When it comes to Warframe, I think the primary thing one should try to avoid is what they did to Grendel. Essentially, you don't want to create a frame that is SOLELY linked to certain criteria. In Grendel's case, it's having to always have an enemy consumed in order to cast any of his other abilities. Even in the case of Nidus, who requires stacks in order to use two of his abilities is more acceptable, but still perhaps not ideal. However, at least in Nidus' case, he's able to generate stacks and keep them without having to consume energy to keep them. Meanwhile, Grendel not only requires an enemy consumed to cast his three other abilities, but also has to spend energy to maintain the consumption as well as foot the cost of casting his 2 or 4 (3 is free, but still). 

So, that's the first thing I would avoid at all cost when developing a summoner frame. Avoid hinging his abilities on a previous condition being met. IMO, it makes the frame very disjointed and clunky. It's an easy pitfall too when speaking about a summoner frame, to create a cool, bad ass summon, only to feel like you have to centralize everything around that summon, and forget to make the frame's abilities work without the summon present.

On the other hand, you also don't want to make the summon(s) entirely meaningless when it comes to the frame's other abilities. The goal is to create synergy without creating subservience to the summon, but also without making the summon valueless.

That's why the suggestion I made (and ended up creating a separate post for with some changes) allowed for two of the abilities to have functions without the need for a summon, but become far better when the summon was present, and even more so when other conditions were met.

id like to say that's not the only reason for stacks on nidus, it increases his abilities strength by a massive amount depending on the amount of stacks he has and isn't only a resource, along with Grendel using eaten enemies as ammo he also gains a massive armor buff by having enemies consumed, i think the problem with him stems from his abilities not being very useful in general, since 2 of them do the same thing pretty much. but also, discussing how you said a summoner shouldn't revolve around his summons  i don't agree with, a summoner has summons to rely on, that's why they are so strong is because they have to be to protect them, in my concept i even added a passive to where the lower your maximum health is, the stronger your summons become. because when you think about a frame you need to think of weaknesses to balance out the frame. of course i do understand what you mean when you said "It's an easy pitfall too when speaking about a summoner frame, to create a cool, bad ass summon, only to feel like you have to centralize everything around that summon, and forget to make the frame's abilities work without the summon present." but also i think that a certain reliance to your summons is necessary to making good synergy. the best way to do what you are explaining is a support ability that would affect your summons and your teammates but i don't think that it is a good idea to just simply add radial buffs like rhinos roar since then people will forget that he is indeed a summoning frame, that's why i would suggest that the ability is weak but multiplies by the amount of summons are out or something like that. if that makes since.

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