question, why cant health orbs, zenurik, enemy/loot radar, and vacuum affect necramechs?

[(XBOX)MattGamer869]

3 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

You do know what the Old War was, right? Warframes and Necramechs were only a couple years apart, if that.

Because of the lore of the Entrati we have now, they are void "scientists" and Margulis created Transferrence for the warframes. The necramechs had basically been the "first warframe" (Not literally) because of their abillity to be controled via void connection. Warframes are the exact thing. Using this information, we can pice to gether a conclusion that the warframes and the necramechs were invented in the same year minimum. Maximum of 2 years difference.

[DraekoSilver]

GOOD QUESTION.

WHY DON'T THEY? MUHHHHHH?

DE?

[Hayrack]

...and yet Railjack can hoover junk from hundreds of meters away no problemo...

[Timothy_Mark]

On 2020-11-13 at 5:07 PM, (XBOX)DShinShoryuken said:

Someone did not pay attention when Mechs were explained-

Warframes = New Age Tech

Necromechs = Old War tech

The items that drop are for the new age weapons. Old War has their own way of doing stuff.

It is quite simple....you dont have dial up tech running on your cell phone? 

BRUH necramechs came out the near time as warframes for goodness sakes, to make things even more interesting is the fact that the orokin have supernatural technology and anything can fricking work, most especially kdrives dont vacuum and they are "present day tech" and look at how realjacks "old war non full orokin tech designed" yet they have some sort of vacuum, come on that wont make a different no matter what year span are they are made in.

[TWolfJaeger]

This is just going to make warframes irrelevant when necramechs get added to the standard tileset maps.  When you have a rank 40 necramech with the equivalent of iron skin, knockdown immunity, plus radar, vacuum, and a grid square removal tool as its 4, you have little reason to use anything else.

Also we have no idea how long the Old War lasted.  Saying necramechs and warframes came out within a couple years of each other implies a specific timeline that DE has explicitly not divulged.

Warframes and Archwings, and Archwings and Railjacks, were obviously designed to interface with each other.  Necramechs obviously were not.  K-Drives are made from spare parts by (literal) children.  It should come as no surprise that they're governed by different mechanics than the other.

[BDMblue]

A mod... god damn DE just make us always have it. Make vacuum do something else.

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, TWolfJaeger said:

Also we have no idea how long the Old War lasted.  Saying necramechs and warframes came out within a couple years of each other implies a specific timeline that DE has explicitly not divulged.

Warframes and Archwings, and Archwings and Railjacks, were obviously designed to interface with each other.  Necramechs obviously were not.  K-Drives are made from spare parts by (literal) children.  It should come as no surprise that they're governed by different mechanics than the other.

We actually DO know that both Necramechs and "Helminth bio-drones" (Umbras) were created at almost the same time. Father explicitly says that Necramechs were created to fight Sentients, using Void shields. Just like the Umbras as described in the Sacrifice.

Thus, it's not a surprise that frames and mechs not only both use mods, but use almost identical mods (Continuity, Fury, Steel Fiber, etc.)

[TWolfJaeger]

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

We actually DO know that both Necramechs and "Helminth bio-drones" (Umbras) were created at almost the same time. Father explicitly says that Necramechs were created to fight Sentients, using Void shields. Just like the Umbras as described in the Sacrifice.

Thus, it's not a surprise that frames and mechs not only both use mods, but use almost identical mods (Continuity, Fury, Steel Fiber, etc.)

No, we do not.

We're told that necramechs predate warframes.  That's it.  Anything more is baseless assertion.

The architects behind this technology are immortal, and we do not know how long the Old War lasted.  It may have been a few years, or it may have been centuries.  We only know that necramechs were very old and were eventually replaced by warframes, also in-game they happen use a version of the old stamina system that was removed from Warframe in 2015.

DE has pointedly not divulged dates or times for any of the major events that transpired in Warframe's lore, in fact the only definitive span of time I know was mentioned was in Saya's Vigil where she waited five years.

But I digress.  If you give necramechs the same quality of life additions as warframes without nerfing them into the dirt, you make warframes irrelevant.  Don't nerf necramechs.  Don't make warframes irrelevant.

[BDMblue]

A mod... god damn DE just make us always have it. Make vacuum do something else.

[Nailclipper]

13 hours ago, nslay said:

Diablo 3's pickup radius is only for gold and health orbs. The pet picks up gold too (and only gold).

Materials and gems (which don't occupy stash or inventory space anymore) all require you to click on them. I don't remember a pickup radius in Diablo 2, I remember having to click on everything there too.

Thanks for reminding me, it was several years ago! What about health orbs? Maybe DE thinks that Necramechs needing to bump into energy orbs to pick them up is a gameplay element. 

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

Vacuum and such are tied to warframes and not to operator, since the nech are not technically warframe and you already have a warframe on the field, companions mods are only still affecting the idle warframe.

I agree that companions and their mods should affect the player whatever they are controlling, aura mods as well since they affect eveyone in the team.

[nslay]

2 hours ago, Nailclipper said:

Thanks for reminding me, it was several years ago! What about health orbs? Maybe DE thinks that Necramechs needing to bump into energy orbs to pick them up is a gameplay element. 

You reminded me that Diablo items are clicked on. I've grown so accustomed to walking over/near items in Warframe.

I think Blizzard rationalized requiring picking up materials like Deaths Breaths as some kind of psychological, "Oh cool, I got this thing!" feeling/effect. I'll have to see if I can find that post (it's a response to vacuum requests in that community). Anyway, this memory of such a statement has spurred me to wonder if looters imposed this kind of torture on their players for some kind of nebulous game design reason (probably the same reason?).

[Nailclipper]

13 minutes ago, nslay said:

I think Blizzard rationalized requiring picking up materials like Deaths Breaths as some kind of psychological, "Oh cool, I got this thing!" feeling/effect. I'll have to see if I can find that post (it's a response to vacuum requests in that community). Anyway, this memory of such a statement has spurred me to wonder if looters imposed this kind of torture on their players for some kind of nebulous game design reason (probably the same reason?).

Maybe you're referring to what Jay Wilson said (and it's something like what you mentioned).

[TARINunit9]

8 hours ago, TWolfJaeger said:

 Anything more is baseless assertion.

Hardly baseless

While you are technically correct that the Old War does not have an official timeline, what we do know is more than enough to split it into four sub-eras: First contact, experimental desperation, the Tenno counteroffensive, and the war in Tau.

Mechs -- or at least Void shielded, combat mechs -- and Frames both come from the second era

[(PSN)GingyGreen]

On 2020-11-13 at 9:11 PM, DrivaMain said:

Oh you should have seen the twitter responses after that... people calling scott stubborn and selfish. It hurts them because it feels like Scott doesn’t want to listen to their criticism.

To be fair, it's also a bizarre hill for the players to die on too.

I honestly can not give any less of a fack about universal vacuum. Everything I grab is more or less in my way anyways so it never made any difference.

 

Of all the things they could spam, atleast go for something useful and productive like nerfing OP stuff, balancing weapons, revisiting older forgotten content and weapon types, etc

[BahamutKaiser]

I'd be okay with it if the frame still picked up loot, and the Necramech had more independent recovery.

Why are our Necramechs so much weaker than the vault ones, in the vault they just pick their parts back up and recover, not to mention that they have no resource management. Is there some special reason why our Necramechs don't self repair? I wouldn't even mind picking it's arms back up. 

[TARINunit9]

7 hours ago, BahamutKaiser said:

I'd be okay with it if the frame still picked up loot, and the Necramech had more independent recovery.

Why are our Necramechs so much weaker than the vault ones, in the vault they just pick their parts back up and recover, not to mention that they have no resource management. Is there some special reason why our Necramechs don't self repair? I wouldn't even mind picking it's arms back up. 

Ours have unlimited lives on a cooldown. Besides, do you REALLY want to take the Dhrak Master's disarming mechanic, and give it to every single enemy on an Infested map?

[BahamutKaiser]

27 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Ours have unlimited lives on a cooldown. Besides, do you REALLY want to take the Dhrak Master's disarming mechanic, and give it to every single enemy on an Infested map?

Yes

[TARINunit9]

38 minutes ago, BahamutKaiser said:

Yes

I mean think about what you're asking for here. Instead of losing your attacks when you run out of your 5,000 hp pool, you're losing your attacks every couple of times you take damage. It's not like picking your Archgun back up is going to heal you, and the enemies are continuing to shoot you as you constantly run over to where your Archgun fell, so you're just losing even more health while shooting your guns less often

[BahamutKaiser]

21 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

I mean think about what you're asking for here. Instead of losing your attacks when you run out of your 5,000 hp pool, you're losing your attacks every couple of times you take damage. It's not like picking your Archgun back up is going to heal you, and the enemies are continuing to shoot you as you constantly run over to where your Archgun fell, so you're just losing even more health while shooting your guns less often

You end up doing essentially the same thing the BS isovault mechs do, shield up and kill foes with their own damage, one shot entire groups with cluster mines, and pick up your weapon no worse than a basic disarm. 

I'm not being serious, it won't work because the game is so asymmetric. We aren't going to have hundreds of thousands of EHP like those Necramechs, and weak points which NPCs will struggle to identify or target, or unlimited energy, or instagib reflective or mine damage. But if we had similar advantages to the actual Necramechs, we wouldn't need the conventional methods. 

As far as I know, Isovault Necramechs take no damage til you disarm them, unless you can reach around and shot them in the back, and they seem to be able to recover completely when they recover their arms. On the flip side, they don't switch to artillery mode and TPK us.

I enjoy the function of actually changing fundamental mechanics like health pick ups and so on in vehicles to make the game more immersive, there just needs to be an alternative. 

[TARINunit9]

9 hours ago, BahamutKaiser said:

and they seem to be able to recover completely when they recover their arms. 

They don't. You can chip them to death by just repeatedly shooting their arms off

[ThorienKELL]

Here's the thing, it's curious how everyone forgets this simple fact;

NM are new toy. They are still unrefined and DE doesn't know what exactly they wanna do with them. In future, we will get more mechs, ability to use them in more missions, more mech weapons, tech and mods. And I'm sure well get vacuum at some point sooner or later. 

I even think they came out well for what they are. They feel pretty mighty, they are not cumbersome to use and their power seem reasonably balanced. 
Ofc fact still remains that they are less mobile, less flexible, less usable and often less powerful then frames but it had to be this way. It would be silly to make warframes suddenly obsolete. 

[ValinorAtani]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb ThorienKELL:

And I'm sure well get vacuum at some point sooner or later. 

You mean like the players ignored their Kavats & Kubros and used Carrier (which was introduced with Vacuum 09/2013) for 99,9999999% of the time and which DE took 5 years to realize that its Vacuum before we got Fetch for Pets (introduced 11/2018). Yeah, sure. Scott is just a hindrance with his "hills" and one of the reason that Warframe cant evolve gameplaywise because "my Vision is right and anyone else is wrong" bulls**t attitude.

[BahamutKaiser]

13 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

They don't. You can chip them to death by just repeatedly shooting their arms off

That's good to know, still wouldn't mind picking up arms, it's more interactive and consistent. 

[GNDZer0]

I've seen a couple of people bashing for what I would call the wrong reasons. 

Scott has many positions I wholeheartedly disagree with but people need to take a step back and think as well. 

No, Scott should not "just shut up". We want the DEVs to talk to us. Even if we think they are wrong we can at least exchange feedback. 

I agree the hill is dumb, but it clearly looks like a joke. You can argue that it's a bit tone deaf, but if they explain they are looking into ways to improve we should at least concede that much is a good thing and argue on the fronts that need be argued. 

I think universal vacuum should be a thing and I dislike how much some people on DE seem to lean on the nerf hammer, but I honestly hope both sides of these discussions can respect each other and try to at least talk about it. 

That said, DE really needs to start listening a bit better. I can at least recognize that that some jokes do hit on people's frustration from recurring issues which really subtracts to the punchline, the problem here really isn't the joke. (I really like the word really)