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5 forma to rank 40 mech? Really?


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8 minutes ago, vegetosayajin said:

You forget that every hypothesis has to be proven by multiple angles to be accepted. Replication is required for every one of those steps to be sure it's not a "fluke".

 


So no even the scientific method is not doing the same thing over and over.

I know, that post you're quoting is a simplification of what was already an oversimplified statement I made earlier:

45 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Actually, the Scientific method is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting the same result, and then doing an ever-so-slightly different thing over and over again and then expecting a different set of same results.

 

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1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

I know, that post you're quoting is a simplification of what was already an oversimplified statement I made earlier:

Your explanation is not clear enough and in some cases wrong.
Testing an experimental drug on a computer simulation and on a human for example is not "ever-so-slightly different thing".
 

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9 minutes ago, vegetosayajin said:

Your explanation is not clear enough and in some cases wrong.
Testing an experimental drug on a computer simulation and on a human for example is not "ever-so-slightly different thing".
 

There are two types of people.

Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Edited by Loza03
got the quote wrong. oops.
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So at the moment we're suppling and using 8 forma and not enough space to fully mod a mech, plus we get No xp for doing so as DE is yet to add mech xp to profile affinity gain. Only the weapons are giving xp at present this may change!?

And after the update it should only take 5 forma and full build capability available, i do not see a beef with less forma needed and 3 less grinds to rank up the space capability

a simplified calculation here but 12x9 drain is 108 so 8 polarized slots needed to give enough capacity 8 x5 drain is 40 so last 4 slots have a 40 capacity 4x9 36 so we have 4 available points for the bigger mods at 11 (6) drain.

Hopefully they will all fit but until we get update we won't see. DE has to make money slots/ forma and player inpatients is the to source they have to do this, after all we can grind most of it with patients.  

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1 minute ago, (PSN)camwyn-xenos said:

So at the moment we're suppling and using 8 forma and not enough space to fully mod a mech, plus we get No xp for doing so as DE is yet to add mech xp to profile affinity gain. Only the weapons are giving xp at present this may change!?

And after the update it should only take 5 forma and full build capability available, i do not see a beef with less forma needed and 3 less grinds to rank up the space capability

a simplified calculation here but 12x9 drain is 108 so 8 polarized slots needed to give enough capacity 8 x5 drain is 40 so last 4 slots have a 40 capacity 4x9 36 so we have 4 available points for the bigger mods at 11 (6) drain.

Hopefully they will all fit but until we get update we won't see. DE has to make money slots/ forma and player inpatients is the to source they have to do this, after all we can grind most of it with patients.  

Agreed. I'm not sure if people were really able to fully test it out on the PTC though to confim, but I'm hoping this is the case.

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Last thought if capacity is still a bit tight DE can always reduce the few 14 (7) drain or even some 11 (6) drain down a size just like they did with exilus mods from there original drain sizes mainly the prime variety, but my point is its a option DE has used already. And if this was a case the player base would be justified to say 5 formas is reasonable but a 6th would be to much as it is at the 8 now.

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There is conceivably some benefit to applying five forma to a mech to fit all the mods.  There is no reason other than mastery rank to apply 5 forma to kuva weapons when builds don't require that many.  Seriously who thought this was good idea?  Waste of time and resources.

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11 minutes ago, Fairwing said:

There is conceivably some benefit to applying five forma to a mech to fit all the mods.  There is no reason other than mastery rank to apply 5 forma to kuva weapons when builds don't require that many.  Seriously who thought this was good idea?  Waste of time and resources.

Kuva weapons remain the strangest example.

For Paracesis it was an exciting and new gimmick, and it's generally a hyped-up weapon in the quest, and the lore since it (was) required to access later story beats. As you say for the mechs, it's for practical purposes.

Kuva Weapons it's just for, like, funsies?

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1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

Kuva weapons remain the strangest example.

For Paracesis it was an exciting and new gimmick, and it's generally a hyped-up weapon in the quest, and the lore since it (was) required to access later story beats. As you say for the mechs, it's for practical purposes.

Kuva Weapons it's just for, like, funsies?

Play engagement hoops to make players jump through, and burn a few dozen Forma, basically. That's all it is. It's becoming an annoying gimmick.

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1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Play engagement hoops to make players jump through, and burn a few dozen Forma, basically. That's all it is. It's becoming an annoying gimmick.

In fairness, it was always a gimmick. When it was just Paracesis, though, it was a fun gimmick that made the weapon feel special and unique. Not to mention it actually had value, since it gave it that Sentient damage boost.

The value of a gimmick is based entirely on how its used.

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7 hours ago, Roble_Viejo said:

Ranking up Necramechs is a nightmare because you can't recover Energy or Health reliably. 

That isnt even remotely true.

Orb Vallis + Space Port + Wukong+Wuclone = Profit

Just run up and place Wukong with his clone near the right hand low wall that follow the road as you enter from the Fortuna direction. Place him on the "bunker side" of that wall. Pop out clone, pop Necramech and let the alert rise. You can also bring a max duration Protea frame and pop in and out to refresh the reservoir for energy and nothing else.

Optional approach is bringing any old frame and a Protea specter, same deal here, place her near the wall at the same spot as you would Wukong+Clone or Protea and you'll have energy mostly on demand. 

Best solution, combine the two options. If you have a booster you are done in about 15 minutes or so aslong as the alert level doesnt decide to run out. Without one you look at maybe 30 minutes per forma. Then it will be even quicker when we get the option to use them in normal missions.

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On 2020-11-15 at 5:14 PM, JackHargreav said:

I kinda already answered this.

It's an extra warframe with high damage out put and infinite ammo. The better question is why shouldn't you use it?

Enemy radar, item radar, item vacuum, mobility, free usage of abilities (zenurik, energy siphon), melee, non LoS damage (eg. spores), crowd control (bastille, vortex, chaos, speed or slow nova, etc.).

The latter 2 might not be so important in open world maps, melee is a matter of preference, the others definitely are. The damage output is nothing special - my ordinary kitgun firing through an odonata shield destroys tusk bolkors faster than the mausolon. The #4 is very powerful indeed, but utterly destroys your energy pool, has a limited range with noticeable travel time and projectile arc and you can't move while active.

Edited by DoomFruit
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13 hours ago, Loza03 said:

You said that people should stop quoting the 'definition of insantiy' because it was the scientific method. When it isn't.

What?
No I inferred that doing the same thing over and over expecting a different (or the same) result is PART of the scientific method (not that it IS the scientific method), I'm speaking in general terms, not indicating the specificity of testing, I know you don't know this but I'm actually a geneticist, so when you basically put in a paragraph the most basic version of what I had to make sure I understood in the 1st semester of study, as if something I said was wrong, a confused "yes?" is all I really have to say about it.

Edited by Carnage2K4
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9 minutes ago, Carnage2K4 said:

What?
No I inferred that doing the same thing over and over expecting a different (or the same) result is PART of the scientific method (not that it IS the scientific method), I know you don't know this but I'm actually a geneticist, so when you basically put in a paragraph the most basic version of what I had to make sure I understood in the 1st semester of study, as if something I said was wrong, a confused "yes?" is all I really have to say about it.

Oh, ok. Sorry for being an A-hole.

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10 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Oh, ok. Sorry for being an A-hole.

My point was that there is a lot of repetition in science, and what you get will often be the same result, which a lot of the time you expect it to be, it's not always the same, but confirmation requires an exception of similarity in repetition, while exploration requires new and null hypothesis. Both outcomes of repetition are a part of science, this convo you've gotten into with Corvid above is just two parts of experimentation that are interlinked, being argued as if they are opposing is... Well I don't know what it is... Strange... I guess.
Ultimately repetition does not result in, or is the definition of insanity, because it's an important part of science.
And the quote inferring as such is detrimental IMHO to understanding a key part of undertaking science, which is why I roll my eyes whenever I see it.

Edited by Carnage2K4
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Already had to forma it that many times or more just to utilize it's mod slots, the extra levels give extra slots to gain more out of formaing it so much. I personally think this system should be in place for all weapons, just limit the mastery past 30 to Lich/variants/unique weapons and I don't see what the problem is. Having to forma something 5 times is common place for many weapons and warframes. All this does is allow you to get more out of it.

Maybe they just need to give us more forma, rather than ditch this mechanic. Allowing people to still utilize the extra modslots from the extra levels, while not punishing anyone for not formaing 5x for everything. I can understand not wanting to forma something that many times, but if there's no MR gain from it then there's not really any problem. Formaing 5 times seems like a fair trade for making a weapon stronger, especially since we're already formaing for polarities.

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They should have kept Mechs rank 30 and reduced mod drain appropriately. They created the mechs, the mods, the polarities... everything.
They can fix any of it and any possible "limitation" is nothing but an excuse.

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I haven't even finished the grind to 30 on the first mech, I'm not even going to bother until they make them playable on regular tile sets just to make the task a little more pleasant.

Until that happens Bonewidow can stay in pieces.

Where I come from the word bone is used to describe something trash, and from what people are saying the term suits it.

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On 2020-11-17 at 5:41 PM, BornWithTeeth said:

I do hope it applies retroactively though. I put a couple of Forma into my mech right at the start, so it would rightly piss me off if DE effectively said "Sorry not sorry, that was wasted time on your part. Suck it, loser."

And, yes. I am rightly pissed off. If this was always the plan, then punishing people who liked the Voidrig enough to Forma it before the update is a real jerk move by DE.

 

Seriously, this update sounds like it's come with some absolutely dreadful ideas and poor implementation. Quite literally the only thing I like in the update is the improvement to Garuda's Talons, that's it. Otherwise, not good at all.

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Well most things require 5+ forma, except some primes/vandals w already a few polarity slots.  And Kuva capacity is kind of essentia, and nice to have for a quality weapon that you'd want to max out.  Let's take the Supra Vandal for example: One loadout is amalgam serration, riven, primed cryo rounds, primed shred, primed faction, point strike, vital sense, HM, and stabilizer/primed ammo mutation/vig supplies on exilus.  Everything is polarized and I have 0 capacity free.  If I wanted to put in split chamber(my riven has MS)/heavy caliber for HM I'd have to forego my exilus slot.  And if the mech gets primed mods one day, there will be more issues.  It's just weird to have the melee mods thrown in to the same place as abilities, and there's not really a fast place you can forma like you can with frames/weapons.

If the mech gets primed one day, it will probably have a few polarities, but this is just how the game is.  Most things eat forma, and while you can build one daily, thats certainly not enough for me.   I have bought many of the forma bundles.  Plague is the only option really to stockpile forma, but it's not an enjoyable event imo.

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4 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

And, yes. I am rightly pissed off. If this was always the plan, then punishing people who liked the Voidrig enough to Forma it before the update is a real jerk move by DE.

 

Seriously, this update sounds like it's come with some absolutely dreadful ideas and poor implementation. Quite literally the only thing I like in the update is the improvement to Garuda's Talons, that's it. Otherwise, not good at all.

Wait, if you already put some formas, you don't have the level by now?

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8 hours ago, vanaukas said:

Wait, if you already put some formas, you don't have the level by now?

I put in one forma before the update, and without any levelling done since my Voidrig is at level 32, so I'm not sure what their issue is.

Edited by Corvid
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11 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Seriously, this update sounds like it's come with some absolutely dreadful ideas and poor implementation. Quite literally the only thing I like in the update is the improvement to Garuda's Talons, that's it. Otherwise, not good at all.

Isn't it just the game that is like this?

An game that is nothing but absolutely dreadful ideas and poor implementation?

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7 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Isn't it just the game that is like this?

An game that is nothing but absolutely dreadful ideas and poor implementation?

You're oddly vocal for someone who has apparently dropped the game.

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