Max Firerate

[PhiThagRaid]

I've been running Gauss with a large amount of duration combined with weapons that have high firerate. Zenith and Imperator Vandal are the weapons I've been using, with 10.83 and 25/40 fire rate respectively. Accounting for my Gauss buff these each become 30.65 and 70.75/113.2 respectively. The 113.2 is the highest firerate I can achieve with my current builds, but when including a Wisp's Haste Mote and focusing even more on Duration with my Gauss build this number can still be increased.

So my question has 2 parts:

A: Is the fastest firing weapon able to reach its expected firerate? Or is there a maximum firerate limit to a weapon, Something like a fire rate of 100 or something? 

B: Is there a maximum amount of bullets that can hit a target per second? Eg. There might be a 10ms invulnerability between each damage tick an enemy can take which would cap the effective fire rate at 100 rounds per second. Obviously there is a limit on damage numbers that show up per second to reduce lag, this might obscure or even make it more visible whether hits per second is capped.

Edit:

Doing a quick test in simulacrum comparing the 40 firerate damage numbers to the 113.2 firerate damage numbers they do not seem to combine, I believe that the combination of numbers to reduce lag might only apply to DoT effects.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

13 minutes ago, PhiThagRaid said:

Thinking about it now I might've set up something that is difficult to prove. To prove there is no cap a weapon with infinite fire rate would be needed... So I guess that part of the question would have to change to: Is the fastest firing weapon unrestricted? 

Thanks for the input, but comparing my Imperator Vandal build to your Pyrana Prime build the Vandal is the one that can reach the higher firerate and thus be more likely to hit a cap(if one exists). The math: As stated the Vandal can reach 113.2. Based on your video you deplete the magazine in roughly 1 second. Let's give you the benefit of making that 0.8 seconds. Your clip has 24 bullets, but again let's assume the passive converts that to 48 since you are firing with 2 guns.(correct me if I'm wrong, but the Pyrana's passive is that it becomes akimbo) Do that's 48 bullets in 0.8s which is a fire rate of 60. The vandal thus seems to be about 2x the speed, that is obviously including my Gauss buffing it.

For now I'll accept that there is no fire rate cap since it already doesn't affect many weapons, but I'll most likely only solidify that belief if either someone who has access to the code confirms it or if a test can show that the fastest firing weapon(which I believe is the Imperator Vandal at a base firingrate of 25, please correct me if I'm wrong) with the highest possible fire rate buff(riven+ fire rate bluffs+ any arcane if possible+ frame buffs) is able to fire at the expected rate.

This exploit has now been well and truly patched but it's the best example of infinite fire rate I know of, created by one of the guys in my clan. Also wouldn't the Phaedra fire faster than the Imperator Vandal if you're testing archguns?

 

[lukinu_u]

Not sure about a max effective fire rate cap (even if I highly doubt it exist) but what I'm sure is the damage number doesn't combine when you have too much, the old ones just disapear to leave room for the new ones. You can see that by spamming a bunch of dots and see the old numbers disapearing when new tick occure.
I don't know what is the max displayed number cap, but you can most likely take a screen shot when dot ticks appear and count them to find out.

As for the buff itself, are you modding purely for the fun seeing a bunch of bullet, or for effectiveness ?
If you're looking soloely looking for a hgih bullet number, there are a lot more stuff you can do to increase that number :

• With all strength mods + Pax Bolt, you get +449% power strength.
• You can add Nidus with Pax Bolt and Equinox, both with max strength to get an effective 2.32x strength multiplier with an additive +80% strength on top. This brings any warframe to 1339% power strength.
• Gauss Redline max fire rate buff is +1004.25% +229.5%.
• Wisp haste Reservoir fire rate buff is +401.7% (replacing her with Harrow might be better if you manage to get more that 1948 shield, but I'm not doing the calculation for it).
• All primary fire rate mods are +325%.
• If you play Prisma Grakata which has the highest firerate of primaris and add Wild Frenzy, you get a base 21.67 fire rate with +400% from the mod.

If you add them up, it's a +2130.85% +1356.2% fire rate buff on a base 21.67, which is a final 483.44 293.88 fire rate.
You might be able to achieve even more use weapons with innate multishot (if you don't consider it as cheating), but I won't do the maths and compare all of the options. But well, that's a ton of bullets.

[Thural]

6 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

Not sure about a max effective fire rate cap (even if I highly doubt it exist) but what I'm sure is the damage number doesn't combine when you have too much, the old ones just disapear to leave room for the new ones. You can see that by spamming a bunch of dots and see the old numbers disapearing when new tick occure.
I don't know what is the max displayed number cap, but you can most likely take a screen shot when dot ticks appear and count them to find out.

As for the buff itself, are you modding purely for the fun seeing a bunch of bullet, or for effectiveness ?
If you're looking soloely looking for a hgih bullet number, there are a lot more stuff you can do to increase that number :

• With all strength mods + Pax Bolt, you get +449% power strength.
• You can add Nidus with Pax Bolt and Equinox, both with max strength to get an effective 2.32x strength multiplier with an additive +80% strength on top. This brings any warframe to 1339% power strength.
• Gauss Redline max fire rate buff is +1004.25%.
• Wisp haste Reservoir fire rate buff is +401.7% (replacing her with Harrow might be better if you manage to get more that 1948 shield, but I'm not doing the calculation for it).
• All primary fire rate mods are +325%.
• If you play Prisma Grakata which has the highest firerate of primaris and add Wild Frenzy, you get a base 21.67 fire rate with +400% from the mod.

If you add them up, it's a +2130.85% fire rate buff on a base 21.67, which is a final 483.44 fire rate.
You might be able to achieve even more use weapons with innate multishot (if you don't consider it as cheating), but I won't do the maths and compare all of the options. But well, that's a ton of bullets.

redline's buffs aren't affected by power strength, they're affected by duration

[lukinu_u]

il y a 11 minutes, Thural a dit :

redline's buffs aren't affected by power strength, they're affected by duration

Ew right, gonna edit that.

[PhiThagRaid]

59 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

Not sure about a max effective fire rate cap (even if I highly doubt it exist) but what I'm sure is the damage number doesn't combine when you have too much, the old ones just disapear to leave room for the new ones. You can see that by spamming a bunch of dots and see the old numbers disapearing when new tick occure.
I don't know what is the max displayed number cap, but you can most likely take a screen shot when dot ticks appear and count them to find out.

As for the buff itself, are you modding purely for the fun seeing a bunch of bullet, or for effectiveness ?
If you're looking soloely looking for a hgih bullet number, there are a lot more stuff you can do to increase that number :

• With all strength mods + Pax Bolt, you get +449% power strength.
• You can add Nidus with Pax Bolt and Equinox, both with max strength to get an effective 2.32x strength multiplier with an additive +80% strength on top. This brings any warframe to 1339% power strength.
• Gauss Redline max fire rate buff is +1004.25%.
• Wisp haste Reservoir fire rate buff is +401.7% (replacing her with Harrow might be better if you manage to get more that 1948 shield, but I'm not doing the calculation for it).
• All primary fire rate mods are +325%.
• If you play Prisma Grakata which has the highest firerate of primaris and add Wild Frenzy, you get a base 21.67 fire rate with +400% from the mod.

If you add them up, it's a +2130.85% fire rate buff on a base 21.67, which is a final 483.44 fire rate.
You might be able to achieve even more use weapons with innate multishot (if you don't consider it as cheating), but I won't do the maths and compare all of the options. But well, that's a ton of bullets.

I appreciate the maths and a max fire rate meme build can be funny, but that's sadly not my intention. My builds guns' builds were made before Gauss's release, but he became my favourite frame mainly due to his base sprint speed. 

Now these two builds are interacting and I am concerned that Redline might be wasting ammo. I was running a kuva survival the other day and was using my Imperator vandal (the 25 fire rate build) and when using redline in conjunction I emptied a 300 round magazine within 6 seconds. The thing I thought was a problem was that I sprayed about 30 bullets into an enemy, but only had 3 or 4 damage numbers pop up. (~3-4k damage each) 

So, either I was producing damage so fast that the enemies could not absorb every single bullet (thus wasting damage), or they just died within the first 10th of a second but the game was just taking long to update.

In the end do I need to lower the fire rate to increase damage?

[-CdG-Zilchy]

There's no max firerate on weapons, with some of the high recoil weapons if you make them fast enough your mouse goes crazy. Take my ridiculous Pyrana with fire rate riven fore example, I had to pull the mouse down so hard just to keep it on target with the mouse trying to point me at the sky. Sorry for bad recording, it's an old vid
 

 

[PhiThagRaid]

5 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

There's no max firerate on weapons, with some of the high recoil weapons if you make them fast enough your mouse goes crazy. Take my ridiculous Pyrana with fire rate riven fore example, I had to pull the mouse down so hard just to keep it on target with the mouse trying to point me at the sky. Sorry for bad recording, it's an old vid
 

 

Thinking about it now I might've set up something that is difficult to prove. To prove there is no cap a weapon with infinite fire rate would be needed... So I guess that part of the question would have to change to: Is the fastest firing weapon unrestricted? 

Thanks for the input, but comparing my Imperator Vandal build to your Pyrana Prime build the Vandal is the one that can reach the higher firerate and thus be more likely to hit a cap(if one exists). The math: As stated the Vandal can reach 113.2. Based on your video you deplete the magazine in roughly 1 second. Let's give you the benefit of making that 0.8 seconds. Your clip has 24 bullets, but again let's assume the passive converts that to 48 since you are firing with 2 guns.(correct me if I'm wrong, but the Pyrana's passive is that it becomes akimbo) Do that's 48 bullets in 0.8s which is a fire rate of 60. The vandal thus seems to be about 2x the speed, that is obviously including my Gauss buffing it.

For now I'll accept that there is no fire rate cap since it already doesn't affect many weapons, but I'll most likely only solidify that belief if either someone who has access to the code confirms it or if a test can show that the fastest firing weapon(which I believe is the Imperator Vandal at a base firingrate of 25, please correct me if I'm wrong) with the highest possible fire rate buff(riven+ fire rate bluffs+ any arcane if possible+ frame buffs) is able to fire at the expected rate.

[PhiThagRaid]

13 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

This exploit has now been well and truly patched but it's the best example of infinite fire rate I know of, created by one of the guys in my clan. Also wouldn't the Phaedra fire faster than the Imperator Vandal if you're testing archguns?

 

Nice, I believe that answers Question A. (Unless they added a cap since, but let's assume otherwise or we'll be here each time there's an update)

I'm really not sure about the Phaedra. The wiki has the following line: "Though the Arsenal lists a fire rate of 12.5, this is the fire rate before spool-up. Once fully spooled, the Phaedra has a maximum fire rate of 25 rounds per second, 100% above its Arsenal value." This would make the Vandal and the Phaedra the same fire rate.