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Tridolon Hunts Leechers


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I've been queueing up for Tridolon Hunts in public. I'm not currently there with my operator exp where I can run these solo. I ALMOST can, but I am missing a few key operator nodes. I am by no means a pro player, and I traditionally run a 2x3 or 3x3 pretty casually. I did however, take the time to research the meta, get the operator schools leveled to a decent level where I can consistently strip shields and one-shot parts with a Chroma / Rubico prime setup (I also take out volt).

 Recently, I've noticed a much larger percentage of players who are not prepared(this issue didn't used to be as bad last year). They either don't have an archwing to help gather lures, are on a frame that can't contribute, or have the starter amp. Other times they won't communicate with the group at all. Sometimes they even afk or just run around on the map elsewhere. Specifically, I see a lot of wukongs that contribute 0-2% of the damage in the Tridolon Hunts. I don't really want to enable this behavior, as they will just continue to queue up and possibly ruin someone else's game if there are enough of them. So how do we as a community address this issue without being toxic? Totally random, but does anyone know why wukong is so popular in Tridolon hunts (and to a lesser extent, the whole game)?

 So, how do we go about fixing this? I have mixed feelings: On one hand, I try to promote a non-toxic community by providing feedback and suggestions where I can. On the other hand, I feel like certain players aren't interested in getting better or improving, they are only interested in leeching the rewards. Part of the problem, is the chicken and egg scenario of getting operator exp and a better amp. You need Tridolons to get any meaningful operator exp aside from ESO. You also need the rep to build a decent amp. Long-term solution, operator exp needs an overhaul (buffed) so you can get a meaningful amount of exp elsewhere and lenses should be swappable. Short term suggestion is to lock public Tridolon Hunts to rank 14 and require an equipped archwing.

I'm sure some will suggestion to just do them solo, or find a group of friends. Honestly, that's why I like to jump into public games, to meet new people, make friends, ect. I also have a number of friends who do play, but we have different schedules and aren't always available. 

So I'd like to ask the community, do you have any suggestions to help alleviate this issue? What have your experiences been with public Tridolon Hunts?

 

Edited by Myth0ss
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Bro its puggging that's like that in every game. You shouldn't expect top tier hunters in it instead teach them. I found someone while pugging a tricap and taught them the systems and even brought them into my clan.

Tricap has no required setup and 1 person can pretty much carry the other 3 if needed. But if you show them how to do it, help them setup guess what you now have the start to your own perfect hunting team. :)

As to your Wukong bit, it's because he is seen as an easy frame to do the content with. Also people love the twin setup idea. 

Edited by (PSN)Mofojokers
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6 minutes ago, (PSN)Mofojokers said:

Bro its puggging that's like that in every game. You shouldn't expect top tier hunters in it instead teach them. I found someone while pugging a tricap and taught them the systems and even brought them into my clan.

I've done that several times, but I honestly don't have the time to be everyone's mentor. There is some expectation on the community to also learn the fights ahead of time or read a guide or something. At the very least they could ask "Why is my damage so low."

When I was new to the game I'd just bring out Rhino because I could stay alive and at least buff everyone else's damage (who might actually know what they are doing). Wukong provides absolutely nothing to the group. Even a Trinity or hell a Wisp would add something to the group.

Edited by Myth0ss
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4 minutes ago, Myth0ss said:

I've done that several times, but I honestly don't have the time to be everyone's mentor. There is some expectation on the community to also learn the fights ahead of time or read a guide or something. 

It really doesn't take that long bro i went from puggging to having 19 lads on mates list, most i taught myself or with clannies and now we do multiple tricap runs in a night.

Not sure how long you have been around but the job of us elders is to teach others as we go so they can teach others and so on and so on. Warframe is not a game given to easy understanding and alot of people leave easily.

It's us as a community that plays a part in stopping that. We used to have the guides of the Lotus now that role falls to us all to keep it going. :)

Edited by (PSN)Mofojokers
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11 minutes ago, Myth0ss said:

I've been queueing up for Tridolon Hunts in public. I'm not currently there with my operator exp where I can run these solo. I ALMOST can, but I am missing a few key operator nodes. I am by no means a pro player, and I traditionally run a 2x3 or 3x3 pretty casually. I did however, take the time to research the meta, get the operator schools leveled to a decent level where I can consistently strip shields and one-shot parts with a Chroma / Rubico prime setup (I also take out volt).

Taking away the rest of the convo for a minute. You say you researched the meta and then start mentioning Chroma. Chroma hasn't been meta for quite a while now. So perhaps just like you, many other people are just a bit confused? You will of course get many leeches bringing stupid things, MR 1s without operators etc and that's part of playing public mate. Either use recruiting chat or join a clan/discord and create groups there to avoid this.

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The only solutions are to teach everyone you come across yourself or direct them towards where they can aquire the knowledge elsewhere in order to learn how to do them properly. Alternatively you can use the solutions pretty much every other game uses to avoid pub randomness: recruit people to specifically run with, join a clan with people that are experienced, or make friends that can run it.

Edited by trst
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13 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Taking away the rest of the convo for a minute. You say you researched the meta and then start mentioning Chroma. Chroma hasn't been meta for quite a while now. So perhaps just like you, many other people are just a bit confused? You will of course get many leeches bringing stupid things, MR 1s without operators etc and that's part of playing public mate. Either use recruiting chat or join a clan/discord and create groups there to avoid this.

I also run volt, I just perfer Chroma. Wu-kong provides absolutely nothing to the group. I'm not one of those "they have to be meta" guys. I'm totally open to other frames and combos, they just need to bring SOMETHING in either killer damage or some group buff.

Edited by Myth0ss
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14 minutes ago, Myth0ss said:

short term suggestion is to lock public Tridolon Hunts to rank 14 and require an equipped archwing.

that will not help. you simply gonna get mr30 who not gonna be even able to reach center of the lake without falling into water few times.

no restrict will do because that's only place warframe players face their actual skill level.

it's always used to be like that, so i would suggest breath out and start use reqruit/clan/friends etc. maybe one day you will go pub for carry, yet premades exist.

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4 minutes ago, Myth0ss said:

I also run volt, I just perfer Chroma. Wu-kong provides absolutely nothing to the group. I'm not one of those "they have to be meta" guys. I'm totally open to other frames and combos, they they'd need to bring SOMETHING in either killer damage or some group buff.

Ironically because you said "hell even a wisp", Wisp and Volt are the meta now for fast groups, which kind of makes my point, that others are confused just like you. And of course some are just plain leechers. The good news is that those leech types don't tend to stick with the game for long, at some point they'll hit a brick wall, whine, complain and move on to the next game they can leech in.

Edited by -CdG-Zilchy
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2 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Ironically because you said "hell even a wisp", Wisp and Volt are the meta now for fast groups, which kind of makes my point, that others are confused just like you. And of course some are just plain leechers.

There is a distinct difference between leeching (doing zero damage), and still contributing. I honestly don't care if players do 5-10% of the damage (or even zero) if they are buffing the rest of the party.

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1 minute ago, Myth0ss said:

There is a distinct difference between leeching (doing zero damage), and still contributing. I honestly don't care if players do 5-10% of the damage (or even zero) if they are buffing the rest of the party.

You need to understand that those players don't care, they just want their rewards. They will end up being terrible players most of which will leave when the MR 9 test shoves them out in the cold. You can't encourage those people and if you play public, you cannot avoid those people. I've already suggested playing in a premade group on clan/discord or using recruit chat so instead of repeating myself I am pointing out that the people bringing less than effective frames that are trying to still do damage and failing, are probably just confused the same as you are.

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29 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

You need to understand that those players don't care, they just want their rewards. They will end up being terrible players most of which will leave when the MR 9 test shoves them out in the cold. You can't encourage those people and if you play public, you cannot avoid those people. I've already suggested playing in a premade group on clan/discord or using recruit chat so instead of repeating myself I am pointing out that the people bringing less than effective frames that are trying to still do damage and failing, are probably just confused the same as you are.

I have to say as my 2 posts above should cover it. But i have never met a leecher in six years of playing. Normally people confuse leechers with confused people. 

I still think the best way as a community is to always take the time to teach them. Never met someone who turned down my help personally. Gathering the right stuff and teaching them really doesn't take long and you end up making some good mates in the end to do content with.

I still prefer to do my stuff solo but it can be nice to have lads around ya that you enjoy convo with.

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6 minutes ago, (PSN)Mofojokers said:

I have to say as my 2 posts above should cover it. But i have never met a leecher in six years of playing. Normally people confuse leechers with confused people. 

I still think the best way as a community is to always take the time to teach them. Never met someone who turned down my help personally. Gathering the right stuff and teaching them really doesn't take long and you end up making some good mates in the end to do content with.

I still prefer to do my stuff solo but it can be nice to have lads around ya that you enjoy convo with.

I honestly don't play public very often, when I did I noticed a lot of leechers. In new content that I've done a casual pub in I've often found players either being counter-productive for their gains eg not guarding their tower on interception to go grab every bit of loot instead or just being afk while others do the work, particularly in things like Gift of the Lotus alerts where my sole reason for even using public is in the hopes of finding maybe a speedva on defense for example so I can end it faster. I generally play with my clan mates or solo any way but I have definitely noticed it. Personally I'm the same mate, I enjoy doing the new content while talking rubbish with my clan on vc. And I have tried giving tips to some in the public games, some are receptive or even asking questions already, others are rude back and then I teach them a lesson if I'm carrying say, I will go afk until they're worried they're going to fail and start begging me to carry again. 

Edited by -CdG-Zilchy
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I suggest that you form groups using recruit. Public is the wild wild west. Keepv working your amp up and you will eventually run 3x3 solo with volt like I used you. Wukong is mainly used because newbs like a strong tanky frame with his 1 helping alleviate aggro. Plus you can build up from clan dojo alone so many newbies use it and go into tridolon hunts thinking it's similar to rest of boss encounters which it's not. I don't think tying it to mr will do anything since there are high mr leeches and ppl at mr 10 who had already ran dozens of tridolons like I used to before I retired.

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Just now, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I honestly don't play public very often, when I did I noticed a lot of leechers. In new content that I've done a casual pub in I've often found players either being counter-productive for their gains eg not guarding their tower on interception to go grab every bit of loot instead or just being afk while others do the work, particularly in things like Gift of the Lotus alerts where my sole reason for even using public is in the hopes of finding maybe a speedva on defense for example so I can end it faster. I generally play with my clan mates or solo any way but I have definitely noticed it. Personally I'm the same mate, I enjoy doing the new content while talking rubbish with my clan on vc.

O see that might explain it though i do rarely these days pub alot. Once the clan filled up and mates list got to a certain point i never really have the room. Esp as outside of Tricap and Relics i honestly can't think of a reason to group up unless having some laughs with mates or clannies.

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1 minute ago, (PSN)Mofojokers said:

O see that might explain it though i do rarely these days pub alot. Once the clan filled up and mates list got to a certain point i never really have the room. Esp as outside of Tricap and Relics i honestly can't think of a reason to group up unless having some laughs with mates or clannies.

Yeh I'm pretty much the same as you with my approach, it's a rare foray into pub. As I said, if I find willing students I'll happily answer any questions they have, help them out etc and I'm happy to ensure we don't fail. But if I find ones that tell me to mind my own business etc while they get their rewards or actively disrupt the mission without knowing it, I must confess I can be quite the troll lol in order to teach them a lesson which hopefully they'll take onboard.

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Just now, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Yeh I'm pretty much the same as you with my approach, it's a rare foray into pub. As I said, if I find willing students I'll happily answer any questions they have, help them out etc and I'm happy to ensure we don't fail. But if I find ones that tell me to mind my own business etc while they get their rewards or actively disrupt the mission without knowing it, I must confess I can be quite the troll lol in order to teach them a lesson which hopefully they'll take onboard.

A lesson learnt harshly is still a lesson learned. ;)

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Just my anecdotal experience:

I used to run quite a few Tridolons when they first arrived(Only after the arrival of the Hydrolyst and Gauntulyst), at that time no one was experienced at it, so it was common to find even a focused group not reaching a 2x3. As time went on the META was discovered and the focus switched away from 2x3 and toward 6x3. All this happened while there was no Pubic option, going into the plains at night was effectively the only way to pub queue for an eidolon hunt. I believe this lack of a public option really forced players into recruiting chat and planned builds, thus when the public option appeared that was the standard everyone was used to. Now those who join through the public option are most likely to be players who are new to eidolon hunting as the older players would be used to using recruitment chat, thus the expected experience would definitely be lower. 

Since Scarlet Spear happened, I was able to max out all my arcanes and had no more need to run Tridolons other than perhaps plat farming(again value lowered a bit due to SS). Recently the NW mission appeared, though. Since this only required killing 1 tridolon, I didn't want to waste time joining a 5x3 or something like that, so I just joined Public with the lowered expectation of taking the whole night to kill a tridolon in the worst case scenario. To my surprise I actually got a perfect squad from the older META: A Trinity, Volt and Chroma, Going as Harrow + infused Roar. Shields would take about 10-20s to deplete, but Synovia were 1 shot.

So there are still well prepared players, as yourself, that run public, but that should not be expected. Doing anything more than a 1x3 in public would be similar to expecting your whole squad to stick with you for an endurance run on public or multiple void fissure runs.

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Leeching is absolutely fine imho. The barrier to entry for eidolon hunts is quite high - you need quills rep to build an appropriate amp and you need a lot of focus school progression so your operator isn't useless. Then you need to learn a whole bunch of obscure boss mechanics, timings and breakpoints if you don't want the hunt to turn into a mess. 

There is an implicit understanding among veteran eidolon hunters that the fastest way to get into hunting is to get carried through your first dozen or so tricaps. Take the free sentient cores and focus shards so you can spend them on the tools you need to contribute effectively. Is this good game design? Probably not but it is what it is. Experienced players can make the difference by helping newbies get the tools to hunt well and embedding good techniques early on.

Complete newbies do not frustrate a solo carry by descending on teralyst with a billion lures making it difficult to charge 1. They do not accidentally teleport or kill an eidolon because there are not enough charged lures present, thus forcing a restart. They don't handle lures and get them killed. I don't see any negatives. It is much harder to solo carry intermediate players who will take lures and shoot without thinking but even then, these are mistakes you have to make so you can learn from them. 

If you are not practiced enough to solo carry/teach, do not join a konzu bounty pug. If you are not willing to tolerate mistakes and treat them as learning opportunities for your teammates, stick to recruitment pugs where you can pick a team that goes as fast as you can manage and where everyone has similar expectations of how structured the hunt should be.

If you find yourself konzu pugging and you are the most experienced player, use it as an opportunity to improve your own game. Solo carrying is sort of like a test of all the techniques you have learned by playing all roles in groups. If you can't do it, that means there is some aspect of some role that you need to improve and time manage better.

 

Edited by Lolacrayola
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11 hours ago, Myth0ss said:

I'm sure some will suggestion to just do them solo, or find a group of friends. Honestly, that's why I like to jump into public games, to meet new people, make friends, ect. I also have a number of friends who do play, but we have different schedules and aren't always available. 

Pubs are a double edged Sword; sure, you can meet people and make new friends (can't say as I've ever had those intentions but good for you), but you also run the risk of finding leechers, trolls, newbs and the downright incompetent, or people who are a mixture of these traits. this is the reality, the question is whether or not you are willing to accept it. if the answer is no, then friends or recruiting is your best bet, but if you feel you can put up with the bad apples, then keep pugging if that's what you want to do.

just don't be one of those silly people who expects to change human behavior to their desires, we have more than enough of those floating around already.

 

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