(SPOILERS) Latest lore is killing the game for me...

[Loza03]

19 minutes ago, OmegaVoid said:

Although the Orokin used cephalisation (if that's the word) as a punishment, not all Cephalons were criminals.

In What Remains, an Archimedian voluntarily has herself made into a Cephalon to preserve her knowledge.

I also don't see the Orokin hesitating to make Cephalons out of anybody whose knowledge/expertise they had a use for, willing or not.

Also, when your rulers are "evil", acts of rebellion and sedition are not (necessarily) "immoral", but they are still legally criminal.

That's fair. Sometime after I wrote that I read the lore for the Necraloid sentinel skin, and that does seem to imply that they were Servants prior to cephalisation.

Granted, they were also servants to Orokin, so 'evil' is still on the table. The Entrati only recently seemed to have developed a distaste for casual cruelty.

[OmegaVoid]

On 2020-11-25 at 12:13 AM, UnderRevision said:

Ordis got glassed for a reason that pretty much no Tenno would object to, after all.

?

Ordan Karris got glassed for murdering Orokin. Tenno would be potkettling pretty hard to tut at that!

Speaking of which...

On 2020-11-23 at 10:16 AM, chaotea said:

when the warframes rebelled and hunted down the orokin and other important individual who had 'wronged' them, they didnt go after the Entrati.

No, but the existance of the Entrati's Void research facilities would have been a secret of secrets to the Orokin, let alone its location.

As far as I can see, the only way the Tenno would know of the Necralisk is if Ballas told them. When and how Ballas had planned to deal with the Entrati is sort of a moot point -- whatever his plans were after the massacre at the Terminus, it's pretty clear things didn't pan out as he'd intended.

Anyhow, it seems most likely to me that the Tenno never went after the Entrati (if they'd even heard of them) because they didn't know where to find them.

[UnderRevision]

59 minutes ago, OmegaVoid said:

?

Ordan Karris got glassed for murdering Orokin. Tenno would be potkettling pretty hard to tut at that!

Ah, yes, I worded that poorly on second reading.  I meant that the Tenno wouldn't have objected to the murdering that got Ordis glassed, so there's no garuntee that the Tenno would object to whatever Loid and Otak did either.  Again, poor phrasing on my part.  I do like "potkettling" as a term though, I might have to borrow that.

[Prexades]

As nice and quirky as everyone of them seems to be, they are still bodysnatchers who take over the minds and bodies of their victims for immortality.

Grineer and Corpus are still oppressing the remaining free citizens, the Corpus. So as Tenno we are terrorizing them and I don't feel bad about it.

[Desdemona-XI]

this thread has been a treat for various viewpoints Much like the OP I do try to leave the system a better place. however the system is realistically complicated and awkward and morally grey

I think the most accurate is that Tenno are "abused child soldiers" we got flung off into the void, then had our lives erased, 'consigned to lua' aka "they're too weird to live among us stick em on the labs on the moon for study" and then after that had our adoptive caretaker executed for 'caretaking' and we were systematically pressed into elite military service. against our wishes, and against an enemy we probably never felt that opposed to. and let's be honest with ourselves, after the war was won the orokin council werent going to give us a hero's retirement. they called us abominations, demons and monsters more than anything else, best case we'd be bottled up on lua again, or worst launched to the tau system to exterminate the sentients. with no way home. or just killed outright for being too dangerous, or afflicted with the same control systems as the Dax, stripping our free will, though i suspect they probably tried that and void hookum got in the way. in response to which we dealt out some long overdue retribution. but we did wait till the war was done, we still saved the civilians. and we refused to supplant the Orokin as leaders, opting instead to withdraw from the system.

Then we wake up, memories lost and the first thing we see is grineer lead by a toilet-seat-faced jackass called Vor slapping an anklet on us and trying to enslave us. so we fight and flee, we run across the corpus, we are forced to steal resources because no memory and a millenia of cryo leaves one rather underfunded, but we also find out they seem equally eager to use us against our will, so we fight. we save colonists and push back grineer chemical warfare on earth's forests, we find a peaceful town called cetus, under semi consistent siege by grineer, we find the fortuna, find out how oppressive the corpus system is in its own way, we fight. and at this point we dont remember other skills than fighting so we fight for trade. we mercenary because thats what we know how to do. Konzu calls us Killer, and while some take offense to it, I dont, we are killers, we were made to be killers and not given much by way of alternative. I severely doubt the orokin were offering tenno apprenticeships in genetic manipulation or advanced prosthetic tech design anyway. And as was remarked, we don't encounter too many pure civilians in our attacks, almost like the missions we take are specifically targetted on areas with a low civilian populace, and by civilian I mean unaffiliated, peaceful people. Alad V is technically a corporate scientist, a civilian. but he is far from peaceful. and in a conflict especially the guerilla style tactics the tenno have to use in the 'current' era, it becomes important to strike  supply depos, cut off mining operations, and occassionally suppress scientific breakthroughs. (like tyl regor's tubemen) the grineer workers we find may not be attacking us but they are Building and maintaining grineer warships. as they only are seen on the shipyard tileset.

and then the Entrati, the orokin were without a doubt monsterous, and the Entrati dont pretend otherwise, not really. on top of which their strain of infestation has torn up their memories as thoroughly as ours were, however in terms of word over action, the Entrati family are Working to help. trying to hold back the infested tide, keep the decidedly vital heart from collapsing. (grandmother's ploy there may have been a brash action bordering on suicidal, but at the same time, inaction was even more so, the family was falling apart, feuding, and failing to protect the heart, certain inevitable doom vs a gamble at a new chance on an outworlder who's been shaking the system up from in a big way. Now its made clear to us we need the heart. (when the heart collapses your warframe gets crippled, not just transferrence #*!%ery, you take constant damage till you're almost dead, and you lose several mobility functions. Its possible the tenno might be anchored into the void enough on their own to survive and even power warframes, but powering an entire ship? Given that the heart on deimos is likely connected to grandpa Entrati's experiments, and those same experiments featured "severed fingers inching along the ground" an awful lot like our Railjack reliquary drives, it could be very much that the heart maintains those connections, and if destroyed the void anchors would fade away gradually. so we might be fine, our warframes might be okay, but theres no guarantee our reliquaries wouldnt wither and furthermore it is declared to run the solar rails, which our orbiter uses, as well as every ciivilian ship. isolating the system like that would be devastating.

Also to touch on the Voidrig commentary, I believe the above information is correct, the necramechs while capable of fighting the sentients, were undoubtedly expensive, and sabotagable. also, the necramechs use archguns, which are all fine and dandy but offer no solution to sentient shields other than "just keep hitting it" not to mention its well established that the war was being lost before we got drafted, the necramechs probably werent up to more than holding back the sentients with the numbers involved. 

While it isnt outright stated if Margulis was an orokin, if we consider Lotus's form being inspired by hers, she lacks the skintone and super arm of an orokin, but Her relationship with ballas would imply that she was on the way to becoming one. To cite the Naberus story, the three orokin involved in that werent depicted as leaders or chancellors,  or anything aside douchey prankster nobles. Likely the orokin themselves had a fairly convoluted caste system within their own ranks and I dont know if i see one of the council of seven marrying beneath his station, perhaps that is why their relationship never got that far, because she turned to protect us before she had garnered enough respect to warrant induction, she might have been very close to it too.

I find it easier to help the entrati, because they need the help, and without it everything goes to hell. so much so that Garm and Latrox Une are not considered to be deserters, but they all prioritize deimos over their factions' squabbles with the tenno, while their.. oddities certainly dont cause me to wonder if we killed unjustly by exterminating the orokin leadership system like a public execution, they also are working to be better people, and they dont seem to hold contempt to us for what we did, even alad V cant stop calling us betrayers. they're a messed up bunch, but they're helping, not always very well. but old hates of lost memories are pale in compare to the good they do for the system just by not exploding