Deimos: Arcana - Bonewidow Necramech Megathread

[Bakaguya-sama]

K i take back everything I said about Bonewidow. It's this event's MVP.  

1 for healing yourself in endurance runs. 4 to 3 shot Orphixes. EZ.  Dont even bother raising the shield, it suuuck. Just have a mob impaled on meathook most of the time, and you're good.  Meathook is basically its best ability rn.  

[UUDDLRLRBA_START]

2 hours ago, Bakaguya-sama said:

K i take back everything I said about Bonewidow. It's this event's MVP.  

1 for healing yourself in endurance runs. 4 to 3 shot Orphixes. EZ.  Dont even bother raising the shield, it suuuck. Just have a mob impaled on meathook most of the time, and you're good.  Meathook is basically its best ability rn.  

I was using the Voidrig - I'll give the Bonewidow a try on my next run.

How many Orphixes did you 3-shot before you get scrapped?

[Paranoicon]

Yeah, I already had this suspicion in the past, but with the recent event is clearer than ever.

Meathook's healing is infinitely more useful than Shieldmaiden's anything. The fact that Shieldmaiden doesn't allow BW to use her 1 only makes this fact that much more obvious. Having your shield up is not worth loosing the ability to constantly heal, less so when you're getting barraged by enemies from all around you.

Let that sink in, though.

Bonewidow's 1, which was given HP regain after the feedback on this thread, provides her more survivability than the ability that was designed from the start to provide survivability.

I hope DE does not genuinely think they're done working on this mech, because there's a lot of her that still requires work. For starters, the cooldown on the shield.
As far as I've been running Orphix Venom Endurance, I've come to several points where Shieldmaiden's cooldown is longer than shieldmaiden lasts up. I really do feel like the cooldown on that ability should be in some way tied to the amount of time the shield stays up and out.

I'm still not too sure why exactly Shieldmaiden blocks out the usage of Bonewidow's 1. Doubly so considering how necessary it is for her survivability to constantly have an enemy you can siphon health out of. Sure, you can impale an enemy, shield up and when the enemy dies, shield down and impale another. That said, I don't think that very simple process should have that many steps. Not to mention that, if you're already not golden on health, the "shield down" animation can be very much the thing that kills you.

Beyond those two, I don't have anything else to say except for general propositions to improve Bonewidow. Many of which involve giving her abilities some way to interact with each other. All things that have been said before, but still. Stuff like allowing her Ironbride to benefit from the melee buff given when she's hooked someone. Adding a hooked enemy's armor/health/both to the shield when you have it pulled up. Allowing the angle that the shield can cover to increase baded on mods. Nothing I'd call urgent, but certainly stuff that would be appreciated.

[(NSW)Gamer-Steve]

Hey @[DE]Bear, sorry for the accidental format issue on the original thread.

 

I finished typing everything up, and I think I have something solid to work with if you @[DE]Rebecca & others think it could be a realistic thing for Necramechs:

 

 

Relating to Bonewidow, here is her section on that thread for everyone to see quicker:

Bonewidow:

• Passive: 
   
  • Enemies that're killed by Meathook (Succumbing to the health drain) may drop an energy orb to fuel her other abilities. Kills from Exalted Ironbride may / will drop a Health orb / larger energy orb (To keep it going longer!). If she has an enemy impaled on Meathook, she can (Once it's unlocked) activate Exalted Iornbride to toss up the enemy from the hook, and kebab them onto the sword.
     
  • Depending on the type of enemy skewered on Meathook, it may give her a temporary damage increase, shield damage increase, or attack speed buff (Could be based on the enemy's faction; Grineer / Corpus / Infested respectively). These buffs can stack if you skewer multiple enemies in quick succession, and they can scale with enemy level. The duration of the buff may or may not be affected by ability duration.
     
    • Orokin enemies could offer any or all three of those buffs. Sentients could lend Bonewidow their damage adaptability (A partial contrast to Voidrig's Heavy Artillery firepower!)!
       
      • Although the Sentient's Adaptability may need to be made so that it won't entirely negate a damage type against you. Maybe it could be similar to the Adaptation mod?
         
• Meathook:   Small notes;
   
  • There should be a way to have it interact with Shield Maiden / Maiden's Kiss, perhaps while holding block you can hold your skewered enemy next to it to provide further cover? Unless that'l mess up how you can use weaponry (Holding an Archgun and an enemy at the same time, etc.).
    
    Other than that, Meathook is good as is (So long as you're able to stab a target accurately), in and of itself.
     
• Shield Maiden would benefit nicely from the above option, as far as I know.
   
  • Perhaps Void energy could expand to cover a bit around the shield, or taunt enemies into focusing fire into that. When / if the Shield breaks, movement speed should go up a bit similar to how Chroma benefits to losing his Armor during Effigy.
     
  • The main issue to keep in mind with this, s depending on your energy color it may make it a little harder to see in front of you, unless the energy can be dimmed for you and allies while you / they are aiming with a weapon.
     
• Firing Line sounds useful as is, but perhaps it should be useable while swinging with Ironbride, to create some potential combos with that weapon (The beginnings of an Archmelee stance!).
   
• Exalted Ironbride may still need a slight base damage increase, but incorporating Bonewidow's hypothetical passive above will be useful too regardless.
   
  • Along with that (I need to test this), if the combo counter doesn't increase damage, etc. for it then that should be rectified. It would be consistent with standard melee in that case.
     
    • Exalted Ironbride may be affected by Voidrig's Necraweb (Just to reference it here) with increased attack speed. This attack speed buff can stack at least somewhat with the Meathook buff.
       
    • If a Sentient is kebabed onto Ironbride, perhaps that could improve it's effectiveness against the adapted damage of other Sentient enemies? It should perform well enough against every other faction, as they don't adapt to damage like Sentients do.

 

I'm still working on crafting her, so I hope it helps! For those wondering about the hypothetical Bonewidow interactions with Voidrig, check the linked thread :)

[(XBOX)DelverTheDragon]

Don’t wanna sound rude but I attempted the vault run twice now, heading to the second vault and the two nercamechs. Both times I faced a two bonewidows. I feel like they’re a little over powered. Multiple times I was slammed against and then hit with the warblade at full health (925) as an Oberon and just one tapped. I’m playino solo so I did instantly and it’s aggravating. I can’t due multiple vaults if the Bonewidow keeps one tapping me nonstop. Maybe it’s me but it’s just infuriating to lose an hour worth of items just because the bonewidow knocks me down and before I can even get out of the way I’m killed. If it’s just me maybe I’ll try to figure a way around. Just want to ask if anyone else finds them a bit too strong, especially for solos 

[(XBOX)DelverTheDragon]

 

•  

Don’t wanna sound rude but I attempted the vault run twice now, heading to the second vault and the two nercamechs. Both times I faced a two bonewidows. I feel like they’re a little over powered. Multiple times I was slammed against and then hit with the warblade at full health (925) as an Oberon and just one tapped. I’m playino solo so I did instantly and it’s aggravating. I can’t due multiple vaults if the Bonewidow keeps one tapping me nonstop. Maybe it’s me but it’s just infuriating to lose an hour worth of items just because the bonewidow knocks me down and before I can even get out of the way I’m killed. If it’s just me maybe I’ll try to figure a way around. Just want to ask if anyone else finds them a bit too strong, especially for solos 

[Dragazer]

The healing on Meathook seems to have been bugged since the last patch, the tick rate to heal you seems to have been greatly reduced.
You can see a comparison here from Aweblade at 0;13 in this video. Also it'll not heal at all with an enemy hooked sometimes.

 

[Gelkor]

On 2020-12-18 at 6:16 PM, Bakaguya-sama said:

K i take back everything I said about Bonewidow. It's this event's MVP.  

1 for healing yourself in endurance runs. 4 to 3 shot Orphixes. EZ.  Dont even bother raising the shield, it suuuck. Just have a mob impaled on meathook most of the time, and you're good.  Meathook is basically its best ability rn.  

Use 2 when hunting Resonators. Sliding through them one-shots them (along with ground pound through walls/ceilings). And when your shield is up your animation reset from the slide move is sped up, you get hella mobility and can take out resonators instantly without a bullet.

[Almxce]

Random thought: Could Ironbride be improved by changing it to an archgunblade? It's not something you can change overnight as the stance itself would need changes along with the actual look of the weapon, but it might make the weapon more fun to use particularly if the shots at the end of combos mean it's worth using as a 4th ability. If there's concern about it's heavy attack/alt fire being used as another gun you could change it so rather than a shot being fired it emits a pulse that stuns enemies? Considering that this wouldn't have the fluidity that Warframe gunblades have, maybe consider this more of a cannonblade (cannon/heavy blade combo) than a gunblade with shots having a blast effect, certain combos even using that to maneuver bonewidow around?

 

[(NSW)Gamer-Steve]

Sorry for this late response, I just updated the general Necramech Feedback thread for the Voidrig, so I'd like to do the same for Bonewidow on here. I've spent the last several days updating things for Voidrig and Bonewidow (With a bit of help) in case there's enough time to improve them before Operation Orphix Venom ends, and now everything is more streamlined. Bonewidow has her own passive, and the Voidrig is far more versatile than before.

 

 

Some of the feedback (Not much) may be similar, but part of that is because I feel that way about a particular aspect of an ability of the Mech. I think that these changes will be very helpful for her (Considering everyone's feedback as well). But I hope you don't mind seeing similar feedback for Bonewidow as before, as far as that goes.

 

Original posts' updated text:

Bonewidow:

• Passive:  (Hidden in the quote due to the in-depth explanation)
   

Spoiler

 

The Entrati Endure: Whenever Bonewidow kills an enemy, she gains one “Life Charge''. Once the Life gauge is full, Bonewidow can survive the next fatal source of damage that hits her, quickly restoring her HP fully & granting a brief invulnerability period, among other things.

• New charges might not be gained during the invulnerability period (Up to DE).
   
  • (Also up to DE) During the cooldown, Bonewidow’s Engine recovers +25% faster (Adding onto relevant mods), and drains +15% slower (Stacking with mods as well).
     
    • This would be to help extend the use of Bonewidow’s Engines while in the heat of the battle, or when she needs to put some distance between herself and the enemy.
       
• The invulnerability period is not affected by mods (Since it comes from the passive), and the cooldown lasts for 20 seconds (During which time the Life gauge will empty gradually for in-mission reference).
   
  • The Life gauge incorporates the Entrati mechanic of using 5 enemy kills to activate some sort of effect. It doesn’t matter which enemies are killed, as long as Bonewidow deals the final blow.
     
  • Using Transference will not affect the amount of charges Bonewidow has built up. Additionally, the cooldown period will keep going in the event Bonewidow is not being piloted.
     
    • Once Bonewidow gains a Life Charge, it stays with her until she’s destroyed; Re-summoning her somewhere will not affect her charges.
       
  • The invulnerability period lasts for 7 seconds, which after some thought felt like a good compromise between an unmoddable short 5 seconds (Might’ve been hard to notice it happening), and a lengthy 10 seconds (Which might be longer than necessary).
     
• The gauge may resemble the designs on Bonewidow’s shield, or other Entrati artistry, gradually filling up as enemies are killed. It may appear just above the Engine gauge to reduce screen clutter.
   
  • Perhaps there’s a way to design it to flow over the top / sides of her Engine gauge? That’d be an interesting thing to see :)
     
• In addition to restoring her Health, if Shield Maiden has taken any major damage, it's HP & shields (Not including overshields) will be fully recovered to help with staying alive.
   
  • This only happens if Shield Maiden is in use when the passive activates.
     
  • If it's in use, Shield Maiden will also gain an invulnerability period for the same duration as Bonewidow's.
     
    • It would be up to DE on whether Shield Maiden can gain even more HP during the passive's activation or not (As this would stack on top of any HP already accrued).

 

All things considered, I think this might be a more fitting passive for Bonewidow, partly because it's more relevant to her and the Entrati (As much as I love the thought of an Operator + Mech passive).

Using the Entrati-based mechanic makes a lot of sense, when it comes down to it; Considering where Bonewidow was thought of and what her purpose is. The way this passive works and what it does is also an interesting contrast to how Voidrig’s passive works. In a team, the two could complement each other well.
 

That said, 5 kills is also a decent balance in the short & long term, since at lower levels it can be a quick safety measure to make sure if a stray bullet hits you, it'll be ok. At the same time in higher levels (Perhaps other than Steel Path levels), the general pace of enemy kills vs when they might kill you can ensure you may rack up kills again by the time the gauge empties, keeping the survivability going!

 

 

• Meathook:  (Hidden in the quote due to the in-depth explanation)
   

Spoiler

 

New implementation with Meathook:

For Meathook, I mainly wanted to incorporate the functions from the original idea for Bonewidow's passive (Recorded down in this thread!) into the base ability, so this might be pretty straightforward here.

• Enemies that succumb to the health drain of Meathook (Or are killed by enemy fire) may drop a health / energy orb (To heal her / allies and keep abilities running).
   
  • (Not sure if it should be both or not, that could be up to DE)
     
  • I'm not 100% informed on if Meathook not interacting with Shield Maiden created controller issues, but if possible it could be useful to hold block to increase your area of cover (In case enemies go around your shield) while holding an enemy.
     
    • I'm not sure how / if that'll work with shooting an Archgun, as far as that goes.

 

Similar to how Voidrig's Necraweb has a possible Augment, I thought it would be good to have an Augment for Meathook as well. That said, the following possible Augment could be added to the base function of Meathook if DE wants to do so.

 

New Meathook Augment:     Mother's Remorse

Polarity:     Zenurik     (Same as frame augments!)

Total Rank / drain:     Goes up to rank 5, adding up to 9 capacity drain (Might need some help from staff and players to tweak these numbers!).
 

• In addition to the base functions above, this augment adds Faction-based buffs for Bonewidow, listed below. The buffs can stack with Voidrig's Necraweb effects as well.
   
  • The effects of these buffs can be increased by ability strength and duration. Since one might want to throw an enemy just to get them out of their way (One way of using Meathook), the buffs start as soon as they're stabbed, and last until some time after they're let go / thrown.
     
  • The base strength and duration of the buff work similar to Necraweb's augment:
     
    • Rank 1 provides +10% of the effect, lasting for 3-5 seconds after dropping the skewered enemy. Rank 5 provides +50%, lasting for 12-15 seconds after losing the enemy (These numbers aren't set in stone either).
       
      • Sentient enemies offer a buff at half strength (To balance it out with all other possible factors, unless DE would like to change their buff).
         
• Depending on the Faction of enemy skewered on Meathook, these effects occur:
   
  • Grineer enemies give a temporary damage increase to Bonewidow's melee and ranged damage.
     
    • (Originally this mentioned "projectile damage", although ranged damage is a bit more specific now. This includes Meathook's throws and Ironbride's ranged attacks!)
       
  • Corpus Enemies give a temporary increase in damage to enemy shields.
     
  • Infested enemies give her a temporary melee and ranged attack speed increase.
     
    • Edit (12-22-2020 @12:16am): To be fair for all weapon types, ranged attack speed was included!)
       
  • Orokin enemies can offer any or all three of the above buffs simultaneously.
     
    • Enemies from other factions who get corrupted during Relic Fissure missions may or may not count as Orokin for this augment's purposes (Up to DE on that!).
       
    • If you happen to get a buff for a particular faction from an Orokin enemy, and you Meathook an enemy from that Faction, it will only refresh the buff's duration (To cover all those bases!).
       
  • Sentient enemies lend Bonewidow some of their damage adaptability (Which still stacks with other defensive mods, etc.)
     
    • (This type of buff from Sentient enemies is optional, considering how strong it'd be with other damage reduction or Armor increases; I'd be ok with it if their buff got changed!)
       
    • That said, the adaptability provided from Sentients may need to be made so that it can't entirely negate a damage type against you. It could be done similar to the Adaptation mod, in theory!
       
  • Various Creatures such as wild animals and the animals summoned by Grineer or other factions give her a temporary increase to critical chance and critical damage.
     
    • For this Augment's purposes, these creatures will not give you a buff from the faction that summoned them.
       
  • These buffs can stack if you skewer & get rid of multiple enemies in quick succession, and each has their own duration, which can be refreshed by Meathooking another enemy of said faction.
     
    • (Optional for DE) Non-Necramech allies (Including NPCs) who are within the impact zone of an enemy tossed by Meathook may gain the Faction's buff temporarily (Based on Bonewidow's ability duration and / or the Augment's Rank). This could be a fair way for Bonewidow users to choose between keeping the Health aspect, or tossing the enemy to benefit their allies!
      
      (Though, that enemy could perhaps be Meathooked again)

 

If she has an enemy impaled on Meathook, she can (Once it's unlocked) activate Exalted Ironbride to toss up the enemy from the hook, and kebab them onto the sword.

With Meathook updated here, below we'll dive into how things could work with Ironbride.

 

 

• Shield Maiden could benefit nicely from the above options, if implemented!
   
  • Since the main realistic things I thought of for Shield Maiden are incorporated into her passive (The Entrati Endure), I wanted to minimize scrolling somewhat for anyone reading this. So the original suggestions I thought of for this ability are now in the hidden thing here :)

Spoiler

 

(Below are some original thoughts I've had on Shield Maiden, which were (At least somewhat) put into the original passive idea I had for her, which was "Transfer of Power" (A combined effort of the Operator + Bonewidow).

After some feedback though, and personal thought on Bonewidow / that passive (It'd be a lot to work on!), I opted for what her new potential passive is. It doesn't quite involve the use of Void energy of course, so any Void energy going around Shield Maiden could just be an ability augment, etc. in the future.

 

At the moment, I'm not sure what the name / exact effects of said augment would be. But this isn't relevant to the effects from Bonewidow's actual passive that I listed above.

• Perhaps Void energy could expand to cover a bit around the shield, or taunt enemies into focusing fire into that. When / if the Shield breaks, movement speed should go up a bit similar to how Chroma benefits to losing his Armor during Effigy.
   
• The main issue to keep in mind with this, is depending on your energy color it may make it a little harder to see in front of you, unless the energy can be dimmed for you and allies while you / they are aiming with a weapon.

 

 

• Firing Line sounds useful as is, but perhaps it should be useable while swinging with Ironbride, to create some potential combos with that weapon (The beginnings of an Archmelee stance!).
   
  • Edit 12-26-2020: Other than the above suggestion, the main additions I really thought of for Firing Line were included in Bonewidow's first passive, which is no longer what I'll be going with for her. As a result, there's nothing much new I can think of that would be realistic for Firing Line.
     
    • Unless DE would like to use that theoretical "Firing Hole" Augment, which is listed within the description for her first possible passive. That would involve the use of Void Energy, and may need more technical work (Unless they made it so you can hold the Firing Line button instead of tapping it, to choose which version you want to use) to get it made properly.

 

• Exalted Ironbride:  (Hidden in the quote due to the brief in-depth explanation)
  

Spoiler

 

New implementation with Exalted Ironbride:

I still partially think that the Archweapon could need a slight base damage increase (Up to DE), but as long as the combo counter works normally with it (My BW was still crafting as of this writing), that should help somewhat. That said, there are a couple of things I wanted to note here, now that everything else is updated for Bonewidow.

• Once you have Exalted Ironbride unlocked on your Mech, you can activate Ironbride while having an enemy stabbed with Meathook. If you have Mother's Remorse slotted on Bonewidow, this allows the buffs you have to transfer onto Ironbride until you decide to throw the enemy; Who will also be taking damage from the projectile & resulting explosion!
   
  • The charged enemy's explosion increases the effective area for the Mother's Remorse Augment (But the buff strength / duration will not be affected via Ironbride).
     
  • The Health drain per second will not be increased by Ironbride. But, Ironbride gains +10% base damage (At minumim ability Rank, can be affected by Ability Strength) against enemy Factions allied with whoever is kebabed (Grineer vs Grineer, etc.).
     
  • Aside from all the above, Exalted Ironbride can also be affected by the fiery conflaguration of Necraweb's fluids, which stacks with mods on the weapon itself as well as Bonewidow's mods!

 

 

It will take a decent amount of work to implement changes like these for Bonewidow, but considering that she is missing a Passive, I think The Entrati Endure would be a welcome choice for it. But if it turns out that the Mechs cannot be updated on a scale like this until after Orphix Venom ends, then I suppose it can't be helped. That's one of the main reasons why I started working on this lately. All in all, I hope this still helps.

[TheLordOmega2]

Ironbride is ridiculously bad because it takes a good 5 seconds to activate with some ridiculous hobbling forward that has no purpose before you can hit anything, while the Arquebex is ready to shoot in about a second.

[VocaSeiza]

Could the Casting speed / unsheathing time of Bonewidow's 4 - Ironbride be improved? It takes a significant amount of time longer to cast and be ready to go compared to Voidrig's arquebex which just casts for a split second and then you can start shooting, whilst Ironbride seems to take a full second, and then another have second for its first swing, so its pretty cumbersome to switch back and forth from your archgun to her exalted archmelee, and this problem is even worse as a client as the delay makes it even longer than it already is.

[(PSN)Luke_Zakalwe]

My two cents:

• I would love for Meathook to "override" the Shieldmaiden so you could impale enemies without lowering the shield first.

• It would be nice, if the Necramech melee mods would affect the Ironbride; I mean, isn't it ridiculous to have several mods affect the stubby hand, when you have a giant blade to wield?

• A rework suggestion to the 4th ability: let the current 3-strike be on the melee quick button (instead of the stubby hand) and add a stance to an actual ability. This way you could bash with melee and fire your archgun almost simultaniously, and then enter the propper exalted melee mode with combos (and as previously suggested this could use all the available buttons to maybe fire a gunblade (and this could work like Mausolon/ Morgha/ Battacor in the sense that after several melee kills, it could release a radial/conical energy burst on an altfire tap)/or extend the blade to a meanigful length, or atetnate betweeen fast and heavy strikes or have a dash/tumble or anything, to make it worth while and more interesting).

• Please remove a stumble stunlock! The mech stuns itself several times going down a seemingly smooth downspire to the "monster door". It's laughable and incredibly annoying!