Deimos: Arcana - Bonewidow Necramech Megathread

[Bailywolf]

Bonewidow (1 forma & modded for survival, energy, and endurance) and Ironbride (2 forma, modded for crit and max damage) is an absolute hoot in vaults where there are dense enemies to go kill crazy on.  

But...

She can't handle an enemy mek with her sword.  The only time she got killed out from under me was when I went for the enemy mek with the blade.   This compares poorly to gunmek, where running his 2 and 4 wrecks house on enemy Meks very fast.  

 

Still, it's an absolute pleasure to power slide down a corridor filled with heavy infested and splatter them on the walls like a runaway train.  

 

Bonewidow is close.  Another round of tweaks and fixes will make her excellent.   

 

*Better meathook accuracy. 

*Better drain vs armored units 

*More consistent shield defense (still seems not to block a lot of attacks) 

*Ditch energy cost on shield bash (she's so energy hungry this is too much)

*Mek melee mods applying to sword 

*Ironbride as energy free default melee w/ 4 as big enhancement to damage, speed, AOE.  

*Improved combo as Ironbride ranks up

[Alpha_Tango]

After the recent patch

I put in a 6th forma just because.  With a booster on, two back to back T1-T3 w/ repeated T3 Arcana vaults (>3hours) and some bounties with randoms, it was all back to 40. The Iron Bride is at 4 forma. 

• Meathook works but it still hits way pass a target directly in front of the crosshair, most of the time
• although the life steal was good, because it missed a lot and costs too, I'd rather spend time killing than actually trying to recover HP
• NM Intensity and Stretch is suppose to improve #1 but my bad experience tell me otherwise 
• my operator heal plus the dog is more than enough BW healing for the vaults
• Shield maiden functions the same. I didn't even notice reflect because I kill fast anyway
• the two kinds of shield bash, I barely used because they too cost energy and is rarely necessary apart from the fact that it has a weird bug, involving switching from gun to sword or vice versa. It locked me up 2x inside the mech, unable to activate any ability or transfer out as operator and just had to let it die to reset
• Iron Bride and Bone Maiden was up all the time, with enough energy to sustain them because the mech kills fast enough for energy orbs to drop
• I can hold aggro vs. enemy NM and killed best with the new improved third strike
• I only got killed once when all three enemy mechs were in the same room ganging up on the whole group

Steel Path

• Iron bride and Bone maiden is very hard to sustain because of the slower kill count with sometimes no energy orbs in sight
• #1 is even less effective when you are missing and cannot heal fast enough to overcome enemies continuously damaging you

for Steel path viability

• Iron bride needs to be affected by other melee based NM abilities beside NM Intensity to improve damage
• I suggest Meathook to have Wisp like #1 ability where a player can choose to either do lifesteal, energy drain or a third energy-free activated hook to any enemy that can be used as temporary shield using its HP
• IMPROVE #1's accuracy because in SP, a miss means death
• a reasonable balance must be reached if improvements for SP is made, because it is so easy to make this mech too OP for normal play as a result of it

[Bailywolf]

Not specifically Bonewidow, but a punch/punch/stomp melee combo for all Meks would be very fun.  The stomp would be a slam attack with aoe and float maybe.  

[(NSW)Gamer-Steve]

7 hours ago, Bailywolf said:

Not specifically Bonewidow, but a punch/punch/stomp melee combo for all Meks would be very fun.  The stomp would be a slam attack with aoe and float maybe.  

That sort of combo sounds like it could be a Hulkbuster Necramech :)

(That'd be a great 3rd or 4th mech)

[Tienxia]

Bonewidow after the adjustments, feels... ok, but why does shield bash cost energy, and why give shieldmaiden damage reflect with it's paltry hp? Shieldmaiden already costs energy to use, and replacing the default punch with an energy consuming bash only ramps up energy consumption. Additionally, reflect on Shieldmaiden doesn't work well in higher levels since it gets melted so fast.

Also, why buff meathook if we still can't use it while shieldmaiden is out (as it should always be, to help soak damage)?

The core issues have still not been addressed, which are:

•  Abilities lock each other out (Meathook v.s. Shieldmaiden).
•  Viable default melee for a melee mech (Ironbride needs to be default melee).
•  Limited Ironbride moveset (heavy attacks, chainable normals/heavies with jump/dash attacks, etc.)
•  Firing Line (as it currently is) should not be a primary ability. Maybe let it be part of another ability, but it does not stand well on it's own.

As I mentioned in my other posts, a proposed rework addressing these issues would be:

Spoiler

Non-Ability Changes

• Add Heavy Attack for Ironbride
  • Seamlessly chains into melee combo, substituting as a swing in the combo.
    • Examples 
      • Heavy attack -> 2nd Swing of melee -> 3rd swing melee 
      • 1st swing melee -> Heavy Attack -> 3rd swing melee 
      • 1st swing melee -> 2nd swing melee -> Heavy attack
      • 1st Swing melee -> 2nd swing melee -> 3rd swing melee -> Heavy Attack
  • Aerial Slam chains into heavy attack.
    • Cancels slam recovery.
      • Example
        • Jump -> melee slam enemy -> Heavy attack (immediately cancels recovery frames).
• Add Dash attack for Ironbride
  • Seamlessly chains into melee combo, same as heavy attack.
  • Has both heavy and normal variations.

Ability Changes

Fleshforged Sword replaces Meathook. Bonewidow skewers enemies onto the Ironbride. Increases damage and adds bonus effects to both passive and active modes.

• Add +400 impact damage to melee per enemy skewered (max 5)
• At 4+ skewered enemies, add knockdown effect to sword swings.
• Skewered enemies immune to damage from outside sources, but bleed out over [X*Ability Duration] seconds.
  • Bleedout applies Heal Over Time for Bonewidow equal to [Bleedout damage*Ability Strength].
• Enemies skewered can be hurled as projectiles with charged heavy attack [Damage based on Ironbride Heavy attack+15% per enemy skewered].
  • After throwing enemies, receive "Butcher's Iron" buff.
    • Provides [+350*Ability Strength] slash and pierce damage (350 to each).
    • Lasts for [X*Ability Duration] seconds.
    • Butcher's Iron canceled upon skewering another enemy.
• Can be activated during boost/dash.
  • Points sword out over shield.
  • Skewers any enemy run over.

Shieldmaiden adjusted to block damage from front, reduce damage from back.

• Increased base HP to 8000, scales with [Ability Strength*HP].
• Has damage reduction based 50%, scaled up with [Armor*Ability Strength].
• Recovers [3500*Ability Strength] Shield HP upon using Pounding Vortex.
• Provides energy field to reduce damage from sides and back (anything shield does not block).
• Upon having Shieldmaiden's HP fully depleted, releases a radial blind that lasts [4 seconds*Ability Duration].
• Alt-fire while blocking initiates shield-bash.
  • Knocks down enemies struck (max 5 in 1 bash).
  • Guarantees [50%*Ability Strength] Armor Strip.

Pounding Vortex replaces Firing Line. Bonewidow punches the ground, radially sucking in all enemies within 35 meters.

• Range is scaled by [35m*Ability Range].
• Inflicts knockdown to all enemies.
• If used while Shieldmaiden is active, additional effects.
  • Shield recovers [3500*Ability Strength] HP.
  • Blinds affected enemies for [3.5*Ability Duration] seconds.
• Chains immediately into Heavy Attack.
  • Heals for 25% total damage done by Heavy Attack.

Exalted Ironbride is separated into passive (default melee) and active (activated ability) portions.

• Passive mode (Ironbride) is default melee (unless Active mode is toggled).
  • Bonewidow default melee uses Ironbride instead of bare hands.
  • Can swap between Gun<-->Sword instantly.
  • Does 70% of Active mode's total damage.
• Active Mode (Exalted Ironbride) is toggled by using Exalted Ironbride. Enhances passive Ironbride mode with more features.
  • Firing line auto-activates after 2nd swing in basic combo, lining up enemies for vertical slash.
  • Increased base damage to [10000*Ability Strength].
  • Increased swing speed by [35%*Ability Strength].
  • Increased base Critical Chance to [75%*Ability Strength]
  • Enhances Heavy Attack.
    • Does AOE explosion on strike.
    • AOE damage scales with ability strength.
    • AOE Range scales with ability range.
    • Deals finisher damage.
  • Is still swappable between gun/melee.
    • Energy Drain only in effect when sword is out.

Failing that, at least:

•  Make Ironbride default melee option, with Exalted Ironbride amping up damage, speed, and functionality (more combos, added effects, etc.)
•  Switch meathook to the right hand, allowing it to be used even with shieldmaiden up.
•  Replace/change firing line to synergize better, like giving it a heal, hard AoE suppression, etc.
•  Give Ironbride more combo options, like heavy attacks, slide attacks, follow-up attacks to jump/slide attacks.

Also, we really need some remappable keybinds, and maybe a mod to allow sideways boosting.

Finally, can we get holster positions for that shield? I'm probably not the only one who wants that shield off the chest, and on the shoulder. I'd pay for that option

[TheKurtiStryke]

we are one step closer to make bonewidow very good and fun to play.

1) meathook surely needs a fix/change for the animation because, yes, now it's a little better than before, but still a bit "dull" when it comes to grab enemies, also, there should be more fixes when enemies are grabbed, because sometimes the get free, and after throwing them, you deal no damage, nor aoe damage

2) i still believe that the shield needs a buff for the health and overall, increase the side of the shield model

3)

On 2020-12-04 at 5:24 AM, Bailywolf said:

*Mek melee mods applying to sword 

this 100%

4) firing line, i like the changes, but it still needs some fixes for the range, because it stillò miss or not drag enemies quite a lot, maybe increase the height and a bit more the range.

5) ironbride , please, just make a stance for it, and increase just a tiny bit the attack speed.

[Bailywolf]

I keep trying to make Firing Line do something useful.  Conceptually I like it - gather up enemies and set them up for hacking.  But it works indifferently, many enemies seem to sort of judder and then are fine, and in the end with her best melee being energy dependent, I'm always better off saving the energy and just turning around and chopping behind me.  Bonewidow is hungry and her energy economy doesn't allow for much interesting-but-not-efdective.   

What would be more useful than a radial gathering effect which puts enemies behind BW in front of her (when she can simply turn around and swing) would be a wider vacuum effect that yanks enemies from outside her easy reach into the line.   

 

 

[Bailywolf]

Meathook vs Shield Maiden. 

Shield bash should be free.  

Meathook heals Bonewidow. 

Using Meathook with shield up could cause a aoe shield bash that heals the shield. 

[32768]

1. There is a lot of stunning/staggering when running in necramech inside vaults. Basically every step i make on a slightly steep surface results in a necramech stagger. This reproduces when survival stage is done (regular vault) and i need to run to actual vault to kill enemy necramech. Jumping is also not very fluid.

2. Fish flying in the air blocks necramech movement.

[Somnia]

Y'know, Bonewidow probably would've been fine if it just had Voidrig's kit with an exalted sword & shield combo in lieu of Voidrig's 4. (The shield augmenting the charging movement is also nice) To justify marching into the fray, the sword also needs to do filthy good damage. Maybe give it a radiant wave that both extends its reach and dazzles with more flashy particles.

If y'all don't want to give Bonewidow omnidirectional protection, then we're going to need to have a talk about how you have your defenses backwards, in terms of design philosophy.

• The melee attacker that goes into the fray to get surrounded should have omnidirectional protection.
• The ranged attacker can afford to block only from one direction by positioning and distance.
• Same deal with Garuda and Mesa.
• Considering the damage on Voidrig's 4, Bonewidow having to march into the enemy's face just to hit them with a sword (with a sheet of paper for defense, because you're likely surrounded) pretty much needs to be a guaranteed kill.

[BahamutKaiser]

So, the shared Affinity loss on host migration seems to be the worst part of Bonewidow at this point. It was painstaking to reformat her. She still needs work, but you already have all the feedback you need to polish Necramechs, the stability of open world content is a much bigger problem at the moment. 

Also, when switching into the mech, I get a totally separate loot and Affinity table... its jarring to check your progress and find it empty. 

I got trapped in my mech a few times, no weapons or abilities were available. Cliffs fixed it, but I have to crawl all the way out of the vault and to the edge of Deimos to access them. 

And then there's the imprisonment tiles. Doors that can't be passed, even when open. 

I hope y'all can get all of this stuff working correctly, because there's nothing worse than struggling for nothing. 

[Zeliphar]

the "rework" she look like the same.

Meathook regen ? ok can't use shield with meathook ? ah.

the 3... meh

the woodbride ? not default melee

you "necramche bonewidow 2.0" is called in my country "un pansement sur une jambe de bois"  

you have a test cluster no ? actually look like you don't.

[sunderthefirmament]

On 2020-12-04 at 4:55 PM, (NSW)Gamer-Steve said:

That sort of combo sounds like it could be a Hulkbuster Necramech :)

(That'd be a great 3rd or 4th mech)

Don't give them any ideas, please.  I'd rather have a reason to use the mechs before they add more.  And even more than that, I'd rather have more content for Warframes.  More frames, more weapons, more tilesets, more mission types, more quests, etc.  More of these clunky, awkward vehicles and all of the glitches that continue to plague them aren't really something I'm looking for in this game.

[(NSW)Gamer-Steve]

8 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Don't give them any ideas, please.  I'd rather have a reason to use the mechs before they add more.  And even more than that, I'd rather have more content for Warframes.  More frames, more weapons, more tilesets, more mission types, more quests, etc.  More of these clunky, awkward vehicles and all of the glitches that continue to plague them aren't really something I'm looking for in this game.

That's a fair point. If they ever did add more vehicles, I don't believe that should be the priority in all actuality.

[TorchFlame6]

В 09.12.2020 в 16:02, sunderthefirmament сказал:

Don't give them any ideas, please.  I'd rather have a reason to use the mechs before they add more.  And even more than that, I'd rather have more content for Warframes.  More frames, more weapons, more tilesets, more mission types, more quests, etc.  More of these clunky, awkward vehicles and all of the glitches that continue to plague them aren't really something I'm looking for in this game.

Defently disagree!

I love that DE listen to us, and try to make mech are so much better.

Bonewidow become a more cooler now(She needs a work on her, but anyway now she is a lot better, than she was).

Mech too need some love, they only two in the game and have some problem with gameplay/skills. If they get improvment now, it be awesome!

Warframe content it's good, but besides that, Necromech need to not be forgotten!

Maybe you dont like them, but there a many people who actually like them.

[B4HEK]

2 часа назад, TorchFlame6 сказал:

DE listen to us

Lol

DE only start making some changes to game when majority of playerbase starts yeeting at them...

Should i remind you about "test cluster"?

[DrivaMain]

2 hours ago, B4HEK said:

Should i remind you about "test cluster"?

The test cluster is just a bug testing program with a new coat of paint. 1000 people selected randomly is a not good sample for feedback. The 1000 people may agree on one thing but what about the playerbase as a whole?

Anyways onto my my feedback.

Alright you guys don't want Ironbride to match Arquebex but can you guys still increase it's damage? 1500 is still too low, maybe increase it to 6000? Ironbride has half the energy cost and drain of the arquebex which makes sense for half the damage in my opinion.

[B4HEK]

19 минут назад, DrivaMain сказал:

The test cluster is just a bug testing program with a new coat of paint.

Well, you have your point, but that doesn`t excuse DE for making absolutely trashy tin... Sometimes i got that feeling that the only one who REALLY plays Warframe in DE is Pablo...

[Duality52]

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Firing your gun while Hovering as a Necramech is now considered to be in an “Aiming” state, meaning Mods like Critical Focus and Marked Target will apply again. 

Please allow us to rebind the keys for hovering. Currently at the moment, that drastically slows the hovering's horizontal speed to a crawl.

[Monolake]

Meathook (1st abilty) doesn't work on the new Deimos infesed at all, only on the 'classic' units. Can't use shield with Meathook.

Iv tried to use Bone melee to fight other mechs and its just futile, it barely ever hits their shoulders no matter how much you try to aim and it *looks* like its hitting the spot but does no damage. 

Meanwhile Valk ...  https://streamable.com/q9q171

[nelu_Y3K]

Her shield is a lot weaker after the patch, goes down in 1 or 2 hits eaven tits 10k hp. It used to take a lot more hits before.

I think the armor isn't applying anymore. 

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

Ironbride total damage does not seem to be accurate in the Upgrade screen. Base damage on Upgrade screen should be 1950 according to the Abilities tab with innate Blast and Heat damage, yet has neither with only 624 base damage.

 

[Monolake]

On 2020-12-04 at 8:59 AM, Alpha_Tango said:

  With a booster on, two back to back T1-T3 w/ repeated T3 Arcana vaults (>3hours) and some bounties with randoms, it was all back to 40. The Iron Bride is at 4 forma. 

so 0-40 with a booster took over 3 hrs? was it solo or pub?

prolly need to so Steelpath premade and leach of Saryn/Khora to rank it up in a reasonable time 😐

[Duality52]

3 hours ago, Monolake said:

Meathook (1st abilty) doesn't work on the new Deimos infesed at all, only on the 'classic' units.

Unfortunately, Carnis and Saxums are immune due to:

On 2020-11-25 at 2:09 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Bonewidow's Meathook ability will no longer skewer Deimos Carnis and Deimos Saxum due to breaking throwing functionality and overall wonkiness.

 

[Alpha_Tango]

2 hours ago, Monolake said:

so 0-40 with a booster took over 3 hrs? was it solo or pub?

prolly need to so Steelpath premade and leach of Saryn/Khora to rank it up in a reasonable time 😐

Time flies if you're having fun as the saying goes. It was reasonable for me and those pugs I am with because we all got drops we wanted from T3 and T3 Arcana bounties. No Loid vaults until T3. After 5-6 rounds of Arcana, we just got bored and took breaks. So BW got levelled and we also got drops to sell and keep. 

Good Luck getting premades, SP might be faster for a solid team. It is quite tough recruiting as it is so I always went blind and negotiate with the group I am with to get what we all want.