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Deimos: Arcana - New Bounties & Isolation Vaults Megathread


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4 hours ago, 60framespersecond said:

The rework of the enemy Necramechs is unbecoming in conjunction with the requirement to do all tiers of the Isolation Vault bounty to gain access to the new bounties. They are a major pain with annoying mechanics for incredibly weak rewards (low chance for weapon parts that you need three different of, after that everything in the table is pretty much worthless for the time requirement).

The Necramechs seem to be immune to any kind of punch through damage? And by that I mean, as soon as any part of the damage hits a non-weak-spot, it gets canceled. That's how it feels. Either that, or the hitboxes are very wonky. Stropha does mostly zero damage, Ignis often does zero damage, even though you're hitting the arms, Catchmoon etc., you name it. Tried the special effect of the Arca Titron, little to no effect (10 stacks should one-shot the Necramech easily).

The way the damage immunity/reflection works is bad. Make it a timer and give an indicator for it, some kind of UI countdown bar.

The torso of enemy Necramechs rotates way too fast and erratically. Give it inertia or make it slower in general.

ya know. honestly, given the choice between a necromech and the wolf of saturn six (at the end of his nightwave season) I think I would rather the wolf, at least then I know damage is registering and I don't get one shot on inaros, from a melee swing, because that storm shroud activates instantly and I have no clue when it reflects or not. finally got to 3 rank with the necroloid syndicate, and I never want to fight teir 2 or 3 necromechs ever again. at least I finally got that second necromech crafting, and I heard it's pretty bad and since they are only useable in open worlds, I really don't want to level them. in other news the new kitgun stuff is kinda cool and works so that's good.

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14 hours ago, DogsConkers said:

This is all very confusing and there's no guide about this I can find.

You can write that over many things here.

It is my policy to wait 1 week after an update for the patches and the content creators to put something - anything - out to watch so I can have a basic understanding of what my role is in order not to ruin my fellow gamers' experience.

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I would like to know who ran through the all three vaults and thought making them even longer than 40 minutes was great idea. Please tell me. I would love to hear them explain their reasons on this tremendously horrible idea. Especially when you try to do the vault #3 bounty, 1h 12m in mission, and the escape menu won't work so no one can accept/force the mission to start. 

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so fun when u do all 3 vaults and ready to click on new "bounty" and boom host leave. it bugged, ask to do t3 vault again and ofc ppl leave. 1 hour wasted and and I didn't even see "new content"...

at this point i think this new weapons will be rarest(most expensive) weapons in warframe history.  im not gonna do it again. no thx

p.s. MR.30

Edited by DXaoc
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I've decided to not do the new Arcana Isolation Vaults, in the hope that DE will remove having to do the forced triple "standard" Isolation Vaults first. That is simply because I've done those SO many times already, not on principle. It doesn't sit easy either, I really miss not having a go at the new content, but hey, you can't have it both ways. Also means I'm currently in a slightly disillusioned state, but that will likely change as checking out the other new stuff ramps up (building/researching now ongoing).

Had  a thought though, about Necramechs. The only time Necramechs become more formidable opponents is when they gang up you (since every Necramech tends to spam it's abilities). Which occasionally happens, during the tier 3 vault. So an alternative to stagger the new vault missions behind a triple of the old ones (which mostly just takes time, which in turn is quite irritating especially if you have no needed loot to look forward to), is to increase the number of Necramechs you have to defeat in the Arcana vaults and to let them "team up" against the intruding Tenno. Even with the Arcana changes (which makes destroying Necramechs a bit more cumbersome) I would prefer spending more time fighting more Necramechs in order to get the new drops than having to redo old, meaningless missions time and time again just to be able to start the actual mission. Actually, "prefer" is a bit weak, I would really, REALLY prefer to do it this way. Gimme 5, 10 and 20 for the tiers, a mix of different Necramechs and let them team up, all that would be just dandy. Drop chances per Necramechs can also be reduced to keep the overall drop rate consistent, no problem. And just to underline the actual problem, this would mean that you would be allowed to start the Arcana Vaults WITHOUT having to do the old triple first.

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I've tried this several times. After completing 3 isolation vault bounties in a row, I then try to click on the new bounty. I then get a message that says "You must first complete the isolation vault." 

Am I just extremely stupid?

If not, I suggest: Either do away with "Complete activity A to unlock activity B to get a chance at reward C" or at least provide proper descriptions for the correct sequence of vaults needed to unlock the new bounties. It's not that fun to try random combinations of bounties to find the one that unlocks the bounty with the rewards I want.

 

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So I've run these quite a bit now, and here's what I've learned (I'm very new to Cambion Drift - went there the 1st time day before this Arcana update, so no real prior experience with Iso Vaults before the update - also, I'm MR 16 and generally run Wisp/Ignis Wraith/Lesion - if that matters at all).  All of this running of the vaults since the update has been in pubs, and I've only been Host twice.

The bonus vault is only worth doing on Tier 3.

Arcane Tier 1 isn't worth doing.

State what you're interested in early (skip Loid/which arcanes/order - T1-T2-A2-T3-T3L-A3 vs T1-T2-T3-Arcanes).

Some of the arcane stages are extremely fast.  A couple are horribly slow.  I've only had the rift one bug out (I heard later it may have been due to Nekros and Shadows of the Dead, but I honestly have no idea).  The one where you have to spray mobs and kill 30ish is probably the worst one to do, as it can take forever (my last group had a non-english speaker who'd summoned a wisp specter that kept dropping shock motes and killing mobs, so we took 7 or 8 items to get the 30 - it wasn't me, as I'd learned on my prior run).

I don't see how the arcanes are worth the hassle.  I can't see using them ever.  And luckily I got all the new weapon parts.

I assume I'll still run these as the factions from the Necralisk are new to me (I can see needing Loid faction), but I have enough parts to build both Mechs.  Only 1 receiver for Mech weapons, though.  But I'm not really interested in MR 30, and I hear the weapons aren't good, so I'm not sure I care about them.  I know I don't care about the arcanes.

My last run was 1 hour 9 minutes (with the specter Wisp probably wasting nearly 10 minutes), so I'll call it an hour.  We did T1, 2, 3, T3 bonus, and T2 and 3 arcanes.  I don't think that's really good going forward.  The community will get to a point where they only want/need things from 1 or 2 of the 7 (or 9 if you count all bonus) different events and fragment/argue in pubs/become even more frustrated than some people are already.  As it stands now, I only personally care about doing them for Necraloid faction and the damaged weapon parts.  I can easily see myself joining a pub, doing T1-2-3 and 3 bonus and then leaving.  And I'm only really interested in T3 and T3 bonus.

I think they should be split into 3 bounties that start at either T1, T2 or T3.  Once the starter T is done, all other bounties should be available, so a group could do all 9 events in one run if they want.  I think you should probably have to complete T1 once to unlock T2 (and T2 for T3), but I'm not sure how new players in the future would get T1 done.  So maybe that's a terrible idea.

But the implementation as it stands is also kind of a terrible idea.

Not having done these pre-Arcane update so not knowing what it was like before, the worst part about doing all of the events are the Loid sections - apart from a couple of buggy/overly long Arcane stages.

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The vault mission structure is terrible. I have had so many host migrations because everyone is looking for different bounties. Some people want to only do the new missions while others want to do the 3 vaults for the rare rewards.

Please isolate the new bounties without having to do the mission to open it. Let it unlock in Mother's selection if the player has completed all vaults before.

I tried to solo the 3 tier vaults for the damaged archgun parts and feel like quiting for the next couple weeks now. You've hard nerfed octavia and stropha against necramechs without addressing the rage-inducing nullifying and damage reflecting spam that voidrigs use. The "cooldown" is way to short and I spend several minutes trying to spin in circles trying to shoot the necramechs back when they always face towards me no matter what. Even slowing them with zenurik does nothing because they can still spin their head around in a instant to prevent you from hitting the back. Explosives and weapons with punch through are unreliable and I've run out of ideas for dealing with these tiny hitboxes on enemies that barely leave breathing space.

I can barely do mechs solo without loosing all my lives and I can't find groups for T3 bounties since everyone is trying to do the new ones in the same mission...

 

And once again these bounties offer no replay value after obtaining the weapon parts and mods once unless you really enjoy trying to sell to players. After I get the Morgha, the sniper, and the war fans, I'll never play vaults on Deimos again.

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i'm pretty content with the overall structure of the Iso Vaults + the new Infested Bounties.

i treat this like an Endurance Mission, playing the Infested Bounties as many times as i care to at the current time. which is great! i can play for a short time, a while, or hunker down for a long run. that flexibility is grand.

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So for some reason I decided to try this T3+Bounties thing again, I dunno I must be a masochist or something. In the beginning of the game, we all agreed we are doing ALL three vaults and then the bounties.

First two vaults went fine, dispite some confusion as to where to start the second vault from. Then, when it was time to do the third vault, someone started one of the related bounties instead confusing it as the T3 one, and nobody else noticed it but me so it was auto-started and then the usual people leaving and host migration stuff happened and I ended up leaving too.

This whole T3 Vault thing was confusing enough BEFORE this update, now its even worse with these "sidequest" bounties.

Can we PLEASE get a more streamlined, CLEAR way of playing these vaults to avoid all this confusion and issues with people leaving mid-game. Someone suggested making it like Sorties, where the progress is saved beetween each Vault so even if something goes wrong you can still continue from T2 or T3. Also, make it so that once youve completed all three vaults the new bounties are PERMANENTLY unlocked so you dont have to do vaults every time you wanna do these bounties ><

PS. Saw a mastery level 3 excalibur join the vault mission, I know mastery doesnt always tell the level of skill but if youve JUST started the game theres no way you have good enough gear for this type of content no matter how good of a player you are. Shouldnt stuff like this have a mastery level requirement or at least some other requirement before you can just hop in and wing it letting everyone else carry you? Not to mention theyll most likely just leave as soon as they realize they cant handle it, which is fun if they happen to be the host.

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Please fix the new bounties. They are very, very long as is.
I want to hope this isn't a new direction for WF (hour plus missions being the norm).


The capacitor stage (kill the nodes to then throw the goo) is extremely difficult to get the bonus as is.

Also, the esophages don't seem to work from the surface back once you take them to activate the 2nd round/stage of iso vaults (Deimos Delicacies, Infested Research, and Cracks in Deimos).

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After testing it myself a few times, I share the general consensus. As a lot are saying, the new vault bounties are rather tedious to unlock, inflexible, and the still persisting glitches, particularly the one that disables the ESC menu can thwart efforts and force a restart back into the grind to get them unlocked again. As it is, the tedium levels exceed enjoyment, and requiring to do the cycle again each time makes this a time gate. The only thing in its benefit is the ability to repeat it in a session where it was unlocked, but being it has to be in a single session does have the cost of queuing issues in the event that players leave. Overall, the dynamic needs to change.

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2 hours ago, taiiat said:

i'm pretty content with the overall structure of the Iso Vaults + the new Infested Bounties.

i treat this like an Endurance Mission, playing the Infested Bounties as many times as i care to at the current time. which is great! i can play for a short time, a while, or hunker down for a long run. that flexibility is grand.

This doesn't make any sense. You can't stop short if you want rewards from the last tier, that's kind of everyone's point. If the bounties were individual and repeatable you could, and without wasting most of your time on missions with rewards you don't need. Linking them in their current state has no purpose other than wasting the players time and dragging the content out. 

 

Edit:Just to further clarify here...

Arbitrations are relatively flexible. You can get higher tier rewards early on and stay as long as you want/are able without much punishment to the players rewards.

Disruptions are also flexible. You can even manually alter your rewards by preventing or allowing demos to reach their objective at each stage.

The arcana bounties are the definition of not flexible. You have to do it all in a very specific way to even get to where you want to be after a large amount of time invested. The only thing the player can do to speed it up is avoid the vault in the isolation vaults. Which is absurd design. I have a hard time even attempting to  comprehend why its designed this way. You skip the vault in the vault to get to the Bounties? Who made this? 

Edited by Arbalest2
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So just tried to try the new content.

Yesterday I did 3 old vault run, started new mission and it bugged out (enemies not spawning at all) - wasted one hour of time

Today I did 3 old vault run, started new mission , progressed a bit only for Rex that I had to kill to be yeeted into ground and forever dissapearing, not even leaving objective marker behind, and mission itself uncompletable. Another one hour of wasted time.

 

I do not even have an idea what is supposed to be in these new missions or what are the new rewards because this system is completely #*!%ed up

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+1 to the general feedback that having to chain all three vaults, plus the bounties, with the amount of mission-ruining occurrences that can happen (host disconnect, menu bug, other showstoppers), is too much.

Let us select the Tier of vault mission we wish to run, and if we want to chain them without returning to the Necralisk, great.

I'm not gonna mess with these new missions too much, it's simply not a rewarding grind, especially with a higher than average risk of catastrophic mission failure beyond player control. The actual new bounties are more or less pretty fun, but the means to fully access them is too freakin' tedious and fraught with frustrations.

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11 hours ago, Natali89 said:

Any idea why i keep getting only one reward at the end of iso vault Tier 3? i do bonus objective with loid. Sometimes i got 2 rewards but usually its 1. It is bug or im doing something wrong?

If the reward is duplicated it only appears on the screen once. IE If you get animus matrixes 2x then it will just show the total you receive instead of popping up the display 2x

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9 hours ago, Arbalest2 said:

This doesn't make any sense. You can't stop short if you want rewards from the last tier, that's kind of everyone's point.

it's quite flexible since you can choose to play at a particular Reward Tier for as long as you want. hours, days, even. you don't have to worry about Reward Rotations, you're always on the Reward Pool you're looking for.
that's great.

i made it pretty clear in exact words that i treat these Bounties like Endurance Missions, which is pretty cool to have. it's... essentially nonexistent in the game for many years, and i'm glad to have it. especially since there's no Timegating or other restrictions, i can just play whenever i choose to play.

yeah, i'm happy with that structure.

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On 2020-11-22 at 10:59 PM, taiiat said:

it's quite flexible since you can choose to play at a particular Reward Tier for as long as you want. hours, days, even. you don't have to worry about Reward Rotations, you're always on the Reward Pool you're looking for.
that's great.

i made it pretty clear in exact words that i treat these Bounties like Endurance Missions, which is pretty cool to have. it's... essentially nonexistent in the game for many years, and i'm glad to have it. especially since there's no Timegating or other restrictions, i can just play whenever i choose to play.

yeah, i'm happy with that 

 

Edit: I do see what you are saying (thats one reason I like arbitrations), but you are already starting your playtime at over an hour, and more importantly, removing the vault requirement still provides what you are saying you like about it. That doesn't have anything to do with it. It just blocks out others who can't play that long, and they have 0 chance of getting anything from the last tier (not flexible at all).

Edit2 after a 3ish hour solo session. To think of these as endurance runs still makes no sense. The bounties take only 6-7 minutes to complete before returning to the surface to repeat and dont increase in difficulty in any way. 

Edited by Arbalest2
Typo and edit for understanding
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It was probably mentioned already but i would love to see Mother offering all 3 bounties from the get go because currently to beat the second half of the third bounty takes 60-90 minutes depending on your squad or the lack of it which isn't really in line with your vision of avoiding the need for players to run really long missions.

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On 2020-11-20 at 11:12 PM, ecc29 said:

Where is new mod "Necramech Flow"?  It doesn't exist on PC drop table.

That one, mercifully, is available directly from Loid's shop.

On 2020-11-21 at 5:07 AM, MobyTheDuck said:

What was the point of increasing Otak's speed (and reducing his health for """balance"""), but tripling the distance he has to travel?

Is this some kind of monkey's paw joke?

DE have been routinely monkey pawing things for a very long time now. At this point, it's basically my default reaction to any changes they make: "right, what are they going to ruin this time".

 

As regards to the OP - hold to confirm on the esophages? Really? That's one of the most annoying things about Railjack. It was bad enough standing by the esophage and hammering the use key because the damn thing won't actually let me in and the infested are busy trying to claw my face off. Now you go an explicitly add another delay? Never once did I activate it by mistake and I've no idea how you even would. There aren't any other interactable objects nearby (so there's no chance of hitting it by mistake when trying to use a console). Neither have I ever seen anyone trying to stun and then use a finisher on the infested. While it's true that someone might do that, they must be in a tiny minority. You've gone and made gameplay more inconvenient for the vast majority of vault players in favour of a tiny little minority.

Also, I've not once even attempted the new vaults. The original ones were bad enough already what with the multiple stacked layers of "hurry up and wait" for 30 minutes through 3 mission chains (which could easily break) for a whopping 5% chance at one single piece. Having to do all that and then chain another 3 bounties on to the end of that results in a very literal exponentially increasing chance of failure through no fault of our own (due to mission breakage) - and all for mission rewards which you never actually put into the drop tables.

I've seen this stated in other threads before, but all of the devstreams really REALLY ought to be the staff actually farming up a full set of the new gear. Under actual, real-world network conditions. And until that's done and finished, there will be no streaming or showing anything else.

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