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Deimos: Arcana - New Bounties & Isolation Vaults Megathread


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For the arcana bounties, please either remove the matrices from the drop table or drastically reduce their drop rates. Or add a bunch more things to Loid's shop. You already have them as common drops from the first iso vaults and from are 100% drop from every enemy mech. My opinion is that lower MR players do not need that many of these before reaching their daily cap while higher MR players are probably swimming in these.

These are the rewards from a single trip out. 3 iso vaults (only did the bonus on the third) and 3 arcana vaults. That's 80k standing in matrices to turn into Loid.

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I did a bunch of T3 iso bounties yesterday.

The Collect Sample one. When it spawned by the sarlac pit it was easy to get all 15 (I was solo) from 2 power cells as loads of flowers spawn around the pit. But when it spawned elsewhere the flowers are in corridors and most of the time I could only get 2-3 flowers per power cell as you have to backtrack a lot. The corridor version needs more flowers closer in.

Destroy tumors. All the times I got this one was by the sarlac pit and most times I could only find two tumors, the orange wisp would stop somewhere and there was just nothing there, when the yellow area shrunk down I would scour that area and still couldn't find anything. No idea if this is a bug and it spawned inside terrain or if it's really cleverly hidden, but it should be looked at since this ends the bounty instead of just making you loose the bonus.

Close Fissure. Some fissures could be pretty far so I think the timers should be upped a little.

Having to do 3 vaults before being able to do my bounty meant I felt like I had to a lot of bounties before leaving and that made me resent the process. Really once you have done any part once ever you should be able to just straight to it, like the Profit Taker missions, possibly tied to Entrati rank 5 as there is currently little incentive to go beyond rank 4. There should also be separate matchmaking for each vault/bounty as it's ludicrous to except four arbitrary people to want do same path of what is basically a branching mission.

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Isolation Vaults

Generally speaking vaults pacing hasn't been impoved. Loid & Otak now go faster, but they have a longer path to cover, which defeats the purpose of the change.

Furthermore, in order to access the underground bounties one has to sit through the isolation vault bounties: in the case of a T3 bounty, this means spending at least 15 to 20 minutes to simply access it and start farming. That is, not considering the actual vault opening, which is something most players

Deimos Delicacies

The Juggernaut is still pretty slow and stops very often to attack. The pathing could use some work.

Infested Research

This bounty is fine-ish in an organized group, but really terrible on public recruit when people don't know what to do.
Simply put, players that have been instructed to kill anything that moves do not behave well when they're asked not to (or are not aware they need not to).

Cracks in Deimos

Overall fine, could use a fixed waypoint instead of an area of interest since it's often misleading on some vault rooms.

 

In conclusion, as of now vaults feel like a lot of time spent for a mediocre reward, and there is also no incentive on going back to it once a player has all the exclusive rewards.

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finally i found MM party who wants do all 3 vaults! we finish them and when we try start  T3 bounty it ask us do T3 vault!?!?!? WE JUST DID IT! ok we finish T3 vault AGAIN and finnaly start "new content" bounty (woohoo!). and what u think happens? literally on 1st mission of bounty juggernaut bugged and dont wanna move at all. and thats all "new content" we got. we cant cancel mission, we cant star new mission (1h+ wasted on nothing). the only way its go back to city and start do ALL 3 VAULTS AGAIN and then PRAY that bounty wont glitch AGAIN.  
devs plz....

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Alright, the new vaults are not worth it at all.

  • The Juggernaut bugs out of nowhere it might be the last bounty in the chain. There is no fix, mobs stop spawning, the Juggernaut stops walking (we used Nova teleport to unstuck, the AI is stopped still). This is a game breaking bug and very frustrating.
  • The drops are just not worth the trouble. Remove the Blueprints and Endo drops from the Phase 2 onwards, please.
  • They take forever to do. If you wanna do the Tier 3 Arcana bounty, you have to do the normal Iso bounties up to tier 3, resulting in 1 hour+ runs. Tier 2 Arcana is almost as bad, for the other reasons above.

Also, what are the large maws for? We did it and nothing appeared.

Thanks.

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In that Isolation vault bounty section that requires infested to group up so we throw some jam on them I found it very useful to use the "Potent Pherliac Pod." The regular "Pherliac Pod" seemed less effective or not effective at all.

I want to be able to craft more "Potent Pherliac Pods." The wiki says "The Blueprint is only obtainable during The Jordas Precept quest."

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Didn't read the other posts since I just got here

I think all Iso Vaults, T1, T2, & T3, should be available at all times. T3 shouldn't be locked behind the other two, it takes way too much time to get there & only have small chance of getting the rewards we want

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ISO vaults and bounties being locked behind each other makes the game mode unappealing and too time consuming. I've already mentioned how the way you move from T1 vault to T2 and T3 is nonsense given no one in the game explains it to you. The main issue I have now is that having the vaults dependent on each other just makes farming such a pain. Say I want to get one of the damaged weapon parts. That is in a T3 vault. Ok, so I need to do the same mission three times for 30 to 45 minutes to get a 5% chance of what I am looking for. That is an absurdly steep grind (similar issue with eidolons but that is a different topic entirely. At least with eidolons you can optimize your strategy to do them really fast. Vaults are time gated so if it doesn't matter how good you are.)

Also, let's not forget there is another layer of grind you unlock after running all three vaults. I think the bounties would be fine if they were either independently accessible or the vaults were independently accessible.

Some suggestions:

1. Make T1, T2, and T3 vaults independently accessible provided that the previous Tier has been completed. (i.e. you unlock the option to run T2 whenever you want once you've done a T1). There is no logical in-game reason why this could not be done. The only reason why is to increase grind time, which is not a good way to approach things.

2. Make T1, T2, and T3 vaults triggerable from all Mother locations. (Why do I find the mother that has the correct vault trigger when the mission is going to tell me where to go anyways?) This is a Quality of Life change that again has no logical barrier.

3. Make a tri-vault run bounty (like the eidolon tri-cap). This should help matchmaking.

4. Make underground bounties independent from the vault bounties. This would not make much sense with how things are set up right now, but would be neat.

5. Make T1, T2, and T3 bounties triggerable from all Mother locations (I don't understand how this isn't already a thing). Another QOL thing.

6. Keep the bounties locked behind the vaults, but have the vaults independently accessible. This I think would be the best option since it would incentivize running all three Tiers of vaults while still making the bounties relatively quick to access from start.

Most of the game is moving towards shorter mission play time sessions (which is a good thing in my opinion) so why are vaults the exception?

ALSO, one last thing. I think the vault/bounty concept is really cool, and it would be neat to see similar things implemented in Orb Vallis in lesser explored areas of the map (Spaceport, Reflector, Temple, etc.). There is so much awesome stuff to see in the OV, but there is no reason to do it right now. 

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unknown.pngthis bounty type needs a fix too on both regular cambion drift bounties and new ones. at the last stage of this bounty after you get the parts from mobs you are waiting for enemies to come in to the the ring and you need to kill certain amount of them to finish the second stage but either enemies are spawning far away and try to shoot you or they are spawning very slowly. Solution for this second part of the bounty is spawning enemies inside of the cauldron ring with cacoons like they spawning near the obelisks. 


Secondly there shound't be any armored infested other than the bosses like lephantis or phoroid . Whole point of giving more damage to infested on warframe revisited update is giving them a balance cause most of them are melee enemies and they don't have second layer of defense but half of the enemies in demios have armor . So basicly devs are contradict with their words on this desing . Besides armored infested and corpus units are removing the uniqeness of enemy factions and making meaningless to seting up gear for mission type's faction. Isn't this why you as developers nerfed the corrosive and changed the many damage types in the game. 

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9 hours ago, MSEP1 said:

ISO vaults and bounties being locked behind each other makes the game mode unappealing and too time consuming. I've already mentioned how the way you move from T1 vault to T2 and T3 is nonsense given no one in the game explains it to you. The main issue I have now is that having the vaults dependent on each other just makes farming such a pain. Say I want to get one of the damaged weapon parts. That is in a T3 vault. Ok, so I need to do the same mission three times for 30 to 45 minutes to get a 5% chance of what I am looking for. That is an absurdly steep grind (similar issue with eidolons but that is a different topic entirely. At least with eidolons you can optimize your strategy to do them really fast. Vaults are time gated so if it doesn't matter how good you are.)

Also, let's not forget there is another layer of grind you unlock after running all three vaults. I think the bounties would be fine if they were either independently accessible or the vaults were independently accessible.

Some suggestions:

1. Make T1, T2, and T3 vaults independently accessible provided that the previous Tier has been completed. (i.e. you unlock the option to run T2 whenever you want once you've done a T1). There is no logical in-game reason why this could not be done. The only reason why is to increase grind time, which is not a good way to approach things.

2. Make T1, T2, and T3 vaults triggerable from all Mother locations. (Why do I find the mother that has the correct vault trigger when the mission is going to tell me where to go anyways?) This is a Quality of Life change that again has no logical barrier.

3. Make a tri-vault run bounty (like the eidolon tri-cap). This should help matchmaking.

4. Make underground bounties independent from the vault bounties. This would not make much sense with how things are set up right now, but would be neat.

5. Make T1, T2, and T3 bounties triggerable from all Mother locations (I don't understand how this isn't already a thing). Another QOL thing.

6. Keep the bounties locked behind the vaults, but have the vaults independently accessible. This I think would be the best option since it would incentivize running all three Tiers of vaults while still making the bounties relatively quick to access from start.

Most of the game is moving towards shorter mission play time sessions (which is a good thing in my opinion) so why are vaults the exception?

ALSO, one last thing. I think the vault/bounty concept is really cool, and it would be neat to see similar things implemented in Orb Vallis in lesser explored areas of the map (Spaceport, Reflector, Temple, etc.). There is so much awesome stuff to see in the OV, but there is no reason to do it right now. 

just do all this...it shouldn't need to be said IMO

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How about Isolation vaults go back to what they were like before Arcana update, where it wasn't hard to find our way around the tunnels/vaults.
I saw no problem with Loid's speed then. He wasn't fast but was glad it wasn't slower, and if we lost track of him he wasn't hard to find again.

Thanks to change to enemy necramechs with us not being one-shot from reflected damage, i can once again solo T1, T2, T3 isolation vaults.
Before the Arcana update, this used to take 50-60min.
Now it takes 1hr 40min, largely because the enemy necramechs are always facing the player except for a split second when they turn around, which doesn't happen often.
Its hard to find anything because the underground network has gone from being small village size to metropolis size.

At MR30, not much left for me to do in game any more except for (I could grind Arbitration for arcanes) or the new content, but in its current state I don't want to do it.
Given the choice between farming endless sortie level Defection missions, or trying to farm the last piece i need (damaged necramech weapon receiver) for the Morgha, Defection is looking like a winner.

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Allow me to honestly ask, do any of the devs even play the Deimos vaults before they decide to roll out this abhorrently boring and painful travesty you deign to justify as content?

Forget the absolutely horrible drop rates and bugs that cause you to claw your hair out, do any of you think of this content as fun? Sure, slap a squiggly red layer over everything and its infested now. I have been trying to enjoy this content for the past week and your deimos farm which ties into the fortuna farm which also ties into the cetus farm is driving us crazy. I encountered a guy in my squad yesterday who said he'd rather have a screwdriver through his eye rather than reset a bounty. and i dont really thnk he was kidding.

As a person who has loved all your content through high and low, please fix your game. We've not stuck with this game for 7 years for nothing. Best wishes.

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On 2020-11-28 at 3:08 PM, Twisted_Wisdom said:

How about Isolation vaults go back to what they were like before Arcana update, where it wasn't hard to find our way around the tunnels/vaults.
I saw no problem with Loid's speed then. He wasn't fast but was glad it wasn't slower, and if we lost track of him he wasn't hard to find again.

Thanks to change to enemy necramechs with us not being one-shot from reflected damage, i can once again solo T1, T2, T3 isolation vaults.
Before the Arcana update, this used to take 50-60min.
Now it takes 1hr 40min, largely because the enemy necramechs are always facing the player except for a split second when they turn around, which doesn't happen often.
Its hard to find anything because the underground network has gone from being small village size to metropolis size.

At MR30, not much left for me to do in game any more except for (I could grind Arbitration for arcanes) or the new content, but in its current state I don't want to do it.
Given the choice between farming endless sortie level Defection missions, or trying to farm the last piece i need (damaged necramech weapon receiver) for the Morgha, Defection is looking like a winner.

Update: Not sure what i did when i did^ those iso vault runs, but today i couldn't solo T3 iso vault.
Would be nice if it was made obvious which vault mission was in progress (to avoid confusing if mistakes are made).

Its not acceptable to be provided with content i can do, then update it and take it away again. Doing that isnt an improvement.
Kinda like saying not going to nerf the good stuff, but bring less appealing gear up to a better standard, then the Bramma gets nerfed.
If the iso vaults weren't meant to be soloed in the first place then it shouldn't have been made soloable at all.

So much for the new content. Guess its play something else until there is content i can do (MR30)

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So I'm loving these iso vaults but here are some issues I'm encountering:  Stability and crashes out of the mission.  I've lost quite a bit of loot over this holiday weekend due to this.  I like that these missions go so long and deep but that may be part of the problem.  If one plays all three tiers and does all the arcana missions there are plenty of ways and times to crash out and lose you're stuff.  This also makes it near impossible to reach T3, and it becomes quite a gamble.  Please work on stability on these vaults.  

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Scrap that awful missions structure of Isolation Vaults completely (both regular and Arcana) and move it all to missions list in the hub (or maybe even starchart). Having to read wiki or patchnotes to find out how this mess works is dumb even by Wiki: The Game's standards of convoluted mess. And let's not forget about "play a mission to play a mission" crap. It's "waste you time until rotation C" slog all over again but worse.

I wanted more iso vaults content but this idiotic overcomplication of everything that plagues every single aspect of Deimos (economy, bounties) completely kills my desire to interact with Deimos content in any way. It's bloat for the sake of bloat. This update (both initial Deimos release and Arcana) had lots of potential to be a massive improvements over previous open worlds but instead DE just doubles down on all that makes Warframe's open worlds suck.

Deimos was a mistake. Open worlds were a mistake. Just make proper missions and tilesets.

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Polyp-Hog Jugg need some pathing adjustment. There are still instances where he can get stuck until any enemy comes.

Also please PLEASE look into Sporothrix and Damaged Necramech Weapon Receivers drop chances, I'm doing this since release and managed to get sporothrix receiver yesterday, while having 5 blueprints, 4 barrels and 5 stocks. Necramech Receiver is also not dropping at all.

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- Make T1, T2 & T3 independently accessible. It was not the best of ideas when there wasn't anything gated behind them, but now it you are truly asking to commit a very large bloc of time in a place where we can not even pause the game. Even if there weren't any stability issues or bugs threatening to reset our progress at random intervals this would make this part of Deimos unattractive, but with those added to the mix it's also exceedingly frustrating.

- Make the different tiers of the Isolation Vaults accessible from every Mother. There really is no good reason not to do so. Adds nothing but annoyance.

- The dropchances on the loot-tables gated behind so many required successful missions simply do not work. These aren't 5 minute rotations you can cycle through. If you aren't going to unlink the T1-3 Vaults, increase the % bigtime and throw out the useless entries on those tables.

-  Introduce a Tri-Vault bounty because why not. Also give it a reward which makes it worth running after you got the regular one-time-needed drops.

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Isolation Vaults are an amazing mess since Arcana update.
- Loid now travels faster but has 3 times the distance to travel.
(I had no problem with the slower speed Loid used to move at. The tunnel system then wasn't confusing, had no problems finding the vault(s) - the update isnt an improvement IMO)
- It takes a LOT longer to find the iso vault now because of the now immense and confusing tunnel network.
- There is no marker in the mission on which vault is being done as mission progresses.
- Went looking for T3 iso vault, & could only find one vault i had already opened (no idea which one because it wasn't marked). No way to reach the second half of the tunnels i could see on the map (I dont know why i couldnt reach them) unless i used an esophagus, which would have ended the mission.
In the end i had to use an esophage because i couldnt find T3 vault (110min to do 50-60min mission, so its not like i didnt try).
- having to press and hold X to use the esophage = risk of dying. Can we at least be made invulnerable while holding X?!
- not a fan or doing 50-60min (T1 - T3) missions (when they work right) to end up getting relics as reward. If i wanted to farm relics i wouldn't be doing iso vault missions.
- I only need 1x Damaged Necramech Weapon Receiver, which means doing 50-60min (on a good day) for one 5% chance at it.
- Making it possible to re-run whichever tier we need to instead of having to start again at T1 would be appreciated.
- Every mother should be able to offer all bounties.

With damaged necramech parts are 5% drop chance. Iso vault missions aren't worth it.
More often than not can't complete an iso vault run because something breaks.
I really love playing warframe a lot but not this.
Wanted to get last necramech part before doing the arcana vaults as maybe by the time i do Arcana there would be less issues to deal with. Guess am out of luck for now.

Update:
I go to Mother in Necralisk for T1 iso bounty. I successfully complete T1 iso bounty. I return to Mother in Necralisk and I can't get access to Arcana Bounty unless i do iso vault bounty or the Arcana bounty isnt listed. I go into Cambion Drift to Mother at Undulatum and can't get Arcana Bounty unless i do Iso Bounty (which i have already done, many times).

Since Arcana Bounties have been available, have farmed the following damaged necramech parts:
- 30 casing, 9 engines, 7 pods, 42 weapon pods, 1 weapon barrel, 3 weapon stocks.
I farmed everything i needed for Voidrig and Bonewidow before the arcana update except for Damaged Necramech Weapon Receiver, so have done many, many more isolation vault bounties than those mentioned above.

Tired of doing isolation vault missions trying to get one Damaged Necramech Weapon Receiver, so decided to do Arcana iso vault mission to find I HAVE TO KEEP DOING ISO VAULT MISSIONS TO ENTER ARCANA VAULT MISSIONS.
Stupidly, I was thinking i could take a break from iso vault bounties and try the new stuff out.
Apparently not.

Its really disappointing to find after the grind so far that I still can't gain access to Arcana Bounties unless i grind even more iso vaults.
And here was me thinking 5% drop chance on Damaged Necramech Receiver was bad for 50-60min mission, but it makes the Arcana Vault missions so much, much less inviting when consider the time involved to get these Arcana T3, stage 4 rewards: Residual Shock 6%, Residual Viremia 6%, Theorem Contagion 6%, Theorem Infection 6% is on top of doing the iso vault bounties.

I don't envy those that weren't able to do isolation vault bounties before Arcana update. Now we need Voidrig to take care of the enemy necramechs but can't do that until farm damaged necramech parts from enemy necramechs.

I don't want to do the Arcana isolation vaults while they are locked behind iso vault bounties.
Its a punishment, not a reward.
Am MR30 so its not like i am not used to the grind.

Edited by Twisted_Wisdom
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Before trying the new Arcana update, just by reading at comments on this feedback section, i was quite unhappy at the structure that you gave to the ""new"" bounties that requires completion of the old isolation vaults:

  • It seems to me just a cheap artificial gimmick to excessively lengthen mission time without providing new original content;
  • Isolation vaults were already poorly-(or i would say non-)explained before, with no clue on how to access the second and third tier without resorting to the wiki. Now Arcana just adds some more unneccesary complexity, especially for random public games. Now a pre-made group with commitment for a long playing session is mandatory; 
  • drop tables are polluted by unneccesary orokin matrices and this makes the farm for 21 pieces of those new (frankly useless) arcanes pretty discouraging.

Nevertheless, i decided to give a first try to Arcana Bounties for the first time under update 29.5.5, here's my experience:

  • i start the first isolation vault from Mother inside the Necralisk. I complete the isolation bounty and return to the surface to start the first arcana. Mission prompt says that to play the first arcana (which is shown as locked) i need to complete the first isolation before...which i just did.
  • I say 'patience' and proceed to complete the first isolation again, thankfully skipping the bait stage. I complete the bounty and return to the surface to start the first arcana, which now is finally accessible. It's the poly-something Juggernaut bounty.
  • I complete the first three stages of the arcana. Nothing new, they are just the same stages of the old surface bounties. How original. Boring remains boring.
  • Last stage is about following the Juggernaut to three points while defending it from enemies. How original. Such a compelling objective for something that you called "new". By the way, after two waypoint completed the Juggernaut get stuck and nothing works to complete the mission. After several minutes i just let it fail.
  • With my last straw of patience I return to the surface and start tier 1 arcana again, run through all of the stages and this time it works. Finally.

Considerations?

  • i can undertand bugs regarding mission access and completion. What i really cannot understand is choosing to design a bounty around AI pathing that you already knew was not working from years of never-fixed kavor defectors!
  • i will not play any of these Arcana bounties if they are not untied from the completion of isolation vaults;
  • the new arcanes seem so pointless that there is no incentive to farm them, once the farm for the weapons compontens is done Arcana bounties will probably be deserted:
    • they are not synergic but inter-depentent, with theorems being literally useless if used alone. 
    • the puddle mechanic promotes once again a stationary gameplay, only suitable in defense-like missions. Which is something frankly overexploited in all of your "new" mission designs, and this gives little to no hope for the evolution of the game toward a more active approach. 
  • i know that i tried only one bounty, but what i saw was definitely not "new", as you promoted. Nothing new, nothing original, nothing compelling. I have little to no hope for the other two bouties.
Edited by DebrisFlow
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Seems like everything I wanted to say about the "updates" to Deimos bounties has already been said loud and clear. Most notably on the Isolation vault side of things.

First the improvements. Cutting down the poison gas part of the bounty was a good move. So was lowering the difficulty of the necramech fights by lessening the amount of time they could become invincible - although the hallmarks of frustrating encounters still exists with extreme damage resistance and one-shot damage output.

Onto the frustrations. By increasing the size of the saves below ground, all that serves to do is make Loid take absolutely forever in his already tedious task. Even with the supposed speed increase, that part of the vault bounty is unforgivably slow. Seems like all that was done was to connect all the caves down below ground into one big super cave, without actually adding any new distinguishable areas. Wouldn't be such a bad thing by itself, but all it does is slow down the progress of an already impatient grind.

These Arcana bounties or whatever are a huge offense. The last thing I want to do, after being bored and impatient for the rewards, the meat of this content, is to go off and do a side quest for meager rewards. Please either attach the rewards to the existing bounties, or remove the entry gate entirely and let people do them at their own leisure.

All in all, despite the promise of added "content" the only thing I feel is the unbearable weight of more grinding. We need ease of access and shorter forced marches to really enjoy the game.

As of right now I'm completely not interested in any of the new Cambion Drifts stuff. The incentive to grind is far outweighed by the frustrations I feel during the missions.

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