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Deimos: Arcana - New Bounties & Isolation Vaults Megathread


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On 2020-11-28 at 10:21 AM, DrivaMain said:

Loid's speed should be doubled or even tripled. Deimos Underground terrain changes and slight loid speed increase changed nothing to the iso vault's pacing.  

Please DE, Do not force us to use WISP. 

Players complained Loid was too slow, so DE made Loid move a lot faster (he now zooms along), and we now have the current mess the update has provided with where Loid now has to travel 3 times the previous distance. How about players start using patience instead of triggering DE into making things harder and unnecessarily more complicated.

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5 hours ago, Twisted_Wisdom said:

Players complained Loid was too slow, so DE made Loid move a lot faster (he now zooms along), and we now have the current mess the update has provided with where Loid now has to travel 3 times the previous distance. How about players start using patience instead of triggering DE into making things harder and unnecessarily more complicated.

You're blaming the victims here. We hated the fact that the loid part took forever, DE looked at that and said "screw you guys, now we're going to make it even slower". How is that our fault?

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On 2020-12-04 at 12:59 PM, Twisted_Wisdom said:

Players complained Loid was too slow, so DE made Loid move a lot faster (he now zooms along), and we now have the current mess the update has provided with where Loid now has to travel 3 times the previous distance. How about players start using patience instead of triggering DE into making things harder and unnecessarily more complicated.

Patience does not work in a fast paced like Warframe. If I want patience in gameplay I'll play chess. 

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Im trying to play the Isolation Vaults and Arcana Bounties Solo.

Why solo? Because EVERYTIME I have played with others the team members messed up something, left after tier 1 or 2 or something got totally bugged and unplayable. <
That is my reason why I can ONLY play this content solo. Because it is almost unplayable with a random team right now. It is buggy it is terribly designed and it is no fun to play at all.

But ok, I give it a try solo.
I have some fancy builds that got me through every content of the game with ease. Steal path solo... no deal.

My latest try in doing the T3 Iso Vault ended in all 3 mechs instantly spawning right infront of me. To separate them of course is not possible... you have to fight them all at once.
I tried to cloak but of course that did not bother these mechs. Despite being cloaked these mechs fired at me with great precision. I have tried to disable their arms, but within a second they got their arms back. Hitting the weak spots of the mechs is a nightmare because of their totally bugged hitboxes.

If you dont instantly die when they throw their mines you will most definitely die once they slow you down because then you are trapped in a 15 seconds long falling animation which gives the mechs all the time they need to kill you for sure. And they do that non-stop. Respawn... slowdown... dead.  Respawn... slowdown... dead. Respawn... slowdown... dead. Until all 6 respawns are consumed and the mission fails.

You can not hide (cloak) you can not fight them 1 on 1 and as soon you engage them all you get slowed down and are doomed to die while this slowed down falling animation prevents you from doing anything.

@DE are you serious with this crap? Is that the player experience you intend to give us? When you release content that make at least sure that is is playable... and maybe (just a suggestion) that it is fun to play. Isolation Vaults are worse than the Railjack content you messed up so miserably.

Oh and maybe it is worth to mention that I had to complete the tier 2 isolation vault twice because even after so many weeks of their existence they still bug out and refuse to unlock the next tier or the bounties connected to them. Something like this should not happen... but it happens non-stop.

Edited by OP-R8R
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Fluid Sac Arcane Bounty missions are way to easy to force a fail. I had my first troll player during a mission just grab sacs and throw them at the wall instantly and not only lost the bonus but actively prevented the mission from progressing.

This mission is way too easy to break by a single bad actor. It needs to be removed and reworked until it's not a trollable mission that could block all progress.

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New Arcanes is really frustrated to farm . Even at T3 bounties , there are so many other stuff to pollute the pool .

It may be fine when we only need like 1or2 of the stuff , but in the case of Arcanes , the farm is ridiculous . I feel like I'm force to stay and farm those , and I still not getting enough reward .

 

I suggest a reorganization of the rewards :

Move all the necramechs mod to tier 1 

Move all the weapon and endo to tier 2 

Move all the arcane to tier 3 .

Without any pool pollution , player can choose the thing they want to farm , and actually got what they want . 

 

Also the Isolation pot part is still too slow , and even slower . The speed of Loid do get increase , but since the size of vaults are doubled , they end up taking more time than before .

Just shift all the generators into the closest section and keep the speed .

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Can we talk about the orokin matrix that pollute the loot tables of thz arcanas bounties ? i mean, if you want to do a t3 arcana, you'll beat 6 necras, you'll get plenty of those cause of course weapons parts drop is terrible and you need 6, so you'll end up doin quite a few (irony here) to get them. you 'll get so many matrices you wont know what to do with them.

Just remove them from the rewards (plus they also drop from vaults ....)

Having a few arcanes in the drop table is fine. it's a grind game. but all of them ? you need 10 to max one, with many of them in the same rotations, plus useless loot in the table, just make the bounties not enjoyable...

i wanted to talk about the bounties themsleves, but everything i should say i've been said a zillion times previously,

and losing necramech XP when there is a host migration ...; that is still not good .

I love this game. i played since a few month after open beta released. i still love it. It's a grind game, i'm ok with that, i signed up for this. but dont make the grind a chores. Make it enjoyable, something we want to do,

i dont know if i'm the only one, but i dont mind not having new content for a few time, if that time is allocated to fix bugs and stuff.

Having new things to do and discover is cool, but lately, there had been soi many new things, so buggy, and too few were adressed. Take your time to fix them and make them fun to play, mayeb, before releasing new bugs. PLZ

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On 2020-12-06 at 3:29 PM, Wandrecanada said:

Fluid Sac Arcane Bounty missions are way to easy to force a fail. I had my first troll player during a mission just grab sacs and throw them at the wall instantly and not only lost the bonus but actively prevented the mission from progressing.

This mission is way too easy to break by a single bad actor. It needs to be removed and reworked until it's not a trollable mission that could block all progress.

Is why i only do it with friends or solo.

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On 2020-12-05 at 11:55 PM, DrivaMain said:

Patience does not work in a fast paced like Warframe. If I want patience in gameplay I'll play chess. 

Patience > waiting for warframes to build, takes  12hrs + 3 days.
Farming Railjack and building the parts > patience.
Failing MR test and having to wait a day for it to reset > patience.
Waiting for DE to provide more content > patience.
Waiting for Bug Fixes > patience.
Waiting for missions to progress > Loid in iso vaults > patience.
Waiting for RNG to provide whatever is being farmed > patience, persistance.
Login milestones > patience.
Waiting for anything to build in foundry = patience.
Some things cant be rushed with platinum, nor should they be.
etc..

Edited by Twisted_Wisdom
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Two things:

1. Cracks in Deimos (seal mist fissures): This seems completely luck based?  Either really easy because the fissures are close, or an impossible lesson in frustration when one or two fissure is too far away and/or too many enemies spawn right next to the cauldron.  My suggestion is to either put a limit on how far fissures can spawn, and/or remove that damn annoying slowdown when you get too far from the cauldron.  Now before someone says "bullet jump", yes I do bullet jump to mitigate the tether-like effect, but there are still instances where I simply could not reach a fissure.

2. Polyp Juggernaut Hogs: The truffle hogs are cute!  Nasty, but cute!  When will we get one as a companion?

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2 hours ago, Zennophati said:

Can anybody help me on finding bonus vault after defeating enemy necramech?
I'm having trouble finding them, its just like a maze, I only found dead end or running in circle, is there any clue on at all on finding them?

While this is probably not the best forum for your question, I'll share a few tips I found:

1. Study the minimap and learn to recognize likely connections into another block.  See a section that looks like an elephant trunk or a tree stump-like protrusion?  Mighty suspicious.
2. Many holes/drops that seemingly cause an out-of-bounds actually land you on a lower level.  Try jumping into any abyss you see.  The worse that will happen is you respawn from the point you jumped.
3. If you really cannot find the bonus vault, give up and take the Arcana bounty that takes you back into the same vault.  While you cannot enter the bonus vault this time, the Arcana bounty missions will probably lead you through the entire vault, letting you see patterns that you did not notice before.

Good luck!

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Please reconsider Isolation bounties. More than once now, the bounties are not offered by any of the mothers after completing the 3rd vault phase (3 mech kill). I just lost my chance on a solo run and had to extract because of this. This is a an extreme amount of time to put in to have it fail.

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PS4....

Wow iso vaults is way more brutal.

- Saxums became super tanked and have a ton of DPS.  After u fixed Juggalas I almost never died to infested in Deimos.  Even wading through stuff in vaults.  After starting a new 4 pip difficult tier I ran into a Lv49 Saxum outdoors who just wrecked me.  I was gara w/ 80% DR.  Could barely scratch him with me co/weep/blood melee.

-inside Some saxum would be weak but others strong.

-Inside vault tho,  those infested that toss web grenades....  That crap was insta nuking my pet constantly.

Difficulty just feels completely wrecked to how old Iso vault 1-3 was.  

Also HATE hold to escape.   Nobody stands by those and 'accidently'  hits em  come on.    If you really want to improve them add 3 more so there is no stupid line to leave lol..

The WORST part of new vaults are that the 4 things Loid has to power up are spread over TWO tiles now.  This makes iso vaults hella more confusing.  The old vaults u would get to the ONE tile where u would fight mechs, then find vault off that room,  defend Loid in that room, leave via that room.  Now all that crap is spread between two rooms and takes twice as long to find vaults and figure out where the hell to go.  Thats just horrible.   

What would be nice is if u get to mech fight room, pop the vault,  THEN instead of leaving you would have mother pop up and ask if u want to go deeper.   At which point you would get to goto 2-3rd mech fight room/new objectives.

I was looking forward to these new iso vaults but between spike in difficulty and multiple tile/room vaults I dont plan on spending any time here after I get stuff. 

ps: So far I like the new mech fights.  Bone is hard to solo cuz he is constantly in ur face lol.  But I got through a 2 on 1 without dieing.

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PROBLEM: Extremely long endurance run combined with bugs and matchmaking issues make it nigh impossible to reach tier 3 cleanup.

EXPERIENCE: Out of ~10 or so runs, I've never reached t3 cleanup. Always people either have to leave or the vaults bug out. Every time, t3 cleanup has been my goal.

SOLUTION: Separate bounties for vault tiers. Ideally 6 missions:

  1. T1 vault
  2. T2 vault
  3. T3 vault
  4. T1 vault + cleanup
  5. T2 vault + cleanup
  6. T3 vault + cleanup

OPINION: Game rewards should not depend on RL issues. Currently these vault rewards aren't about being able to do them, but rather about if people stay in the game and it doesn't bug out. I can control my character, I can't control other people. The bounties need to be separated as above.

Make game rewards dependent on playing the game, not other people's RL issues.

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17 hours ago, Enialyx said:

PROBLEM: Extremely long endurance run combined with bugs and matchmaking issues make it nigh impossible to reach tier 3 cleanup.

EXPERIENCE: Out of ~10 or so runs, I've never reached t3 cleanup. Always people either have to leave or the vaults bug out. Every time, t3 cleanup has been my goal.

SOLUTION: Separate bounties for vault tiers. Ideally 6 missions:

  1. T1 vault
  2. T2 vault
  3. T3 vault
  4. T1 vault + cleanup
  5. T2 vault + cleanup
  6. T3 vault + cleanup

OPINION: Game rewards should not depend on RL issues. Currently these vault rewards aren't about being able to do them, but rather about if people stay in the game and it doesn't bug out. I can control my character, I can't control other people. The bounties need to be separated as above.

Make game rewards dependent on playing the game, not other people's RL issues.

I think a lot of this is moving in the right direction. Right now, in every other mission type in warframe you can expect to get to C-tier rewards after around 20 minutes of play. In order to get to C-tier rewards in isolation vaults, we are talking on the order of an hour, through content that is prone to bugs. The vaults as they stand now are equivalent to having to get to the 12th rotation of a survival or defense mission to have a chance at what should be a C-tier rotation reward, rather than having multiple missions at different level ranges that are can be selected whenever the player chooses.

 

tl;dr there's a reason that damaged necramech weapon receivers go for 70 plat on the market right now, the same cost of some prime warframes.

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Matchmaking for new bounties is really terrible, should a new member join half way the whole team has to repeat from scratch as the the advanced bounties get locked for the team.

Possible solution is to have the new new bounties intergrated into a seperate match making group, similar to the eldon setup. With the new bounties auto starting when a vault teir is completed, after the t3 vault bounties completed you can stay and repeat the new bounties that you had unlocked as you wish.

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On 2020-12-05 at 1:55 PM, DrivaMain said:

Patience does not work in a fast paced like Warframe. If I want patience in gameplay I'll play chess. 

I actually want more patience and thought incorporated in Warframe. If I wanted to rush everything everywhere I would become a hamster (instead of a Tenno) and get a hamster-wheel to run in. 😉

hamster GIF

Edited by Graavarg
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20 hours ago, Graavarg said:

I actually want more patience and thought incorporated in Warframe. If I wanted to rush everything everywhere I would become a hamster (instead of a Tenno) and get a hamster-wheel to run in. 😉

hamster GIF

Patience doesn't work if you're dealing with a 5% chance of getting one item after a 30-45 minute chain of missions which by its very nature causes an exponentially increasing chance of complete failure.

Also, I decided to attempt a vault bounty purely because I got a mod drop booster on login and wanted to see what the new glaive mods were like (the tunnel toxin stage is a good way to guarantee a lot of carniseseses which are all in desecration range).

The bait object thing in the first stage seems extremely fragile compared to how it used to be. I have a neutral view on this.

The loid section takes just as long as it used to do because although it now travels faster, the distance has gotten proportionally larger. Don't monkey paw us, DE. It was hardly ambiguous when we said "it takes too long" - pretending to only hear "loid is too slow" and then sabotaging things by making the distance longer is petulance, plain and simple.

And the esophages. It already took too long to get out before because we had to wait ages for the damn things to reset. Now we have to sit there and sloooooooowwwwllllyyy hooooollllddd doooowwwnnn ttthheee ussseee buuutttoonn while infested are clawing at us before the damn thing will let us out. Nobody liked the whole "hold down the button" thing in railjack. Why are you actively adding it to more things? Whoever it is that dreamed this up and thinks that it should be stuck on everything new needs to be smacked hard. There's enough frustration in the game already without the game actively and explicitly getting in our way.

Also, it turns out that the whole "vaults don't reset with the wyrm cycle" thing is a complete lie, because my second attempt at a vault bounty run had two successive vaults with a single mech and then one with two mechs.

I didn't even try the later stage bounties - the groups that I was in went straight for the exit. One was where the host just left (thus breaking everything) and the second is where the whole squad gave up because of the reset which should not have happened. Seeing all the issues with the arcana missions flat out breaking (either through sabotage or not being told anything), I don't care to make another attempt. It's just as unfun as before.

I guess that I'll never have an exploding glaive, but honestly that's not much of a loss seeing as how utterly abominable their attack animations are.

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15 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

Patience doesn't work if you're dealing with a 5% chance of getting one item after a 30-45 minute chain of missions which by its very nature causes an exponentially increasing chance of complete failure.

Also, I decided to attempt a vault bounty purely because I got a mod drop booster on login and wanted to see what the new glaive mods were like (the tunnel toxin stage is a good way to guarantee a lot of carniseseses which are all in desecration range).

The bait object thing in the first stage seems extremely fragile compared to how it used to be. I have a neutral view on this.

The loid section takes just as long as it used to do because although it now travels faster, the distance has gotten proportionally larger. Don't monkey paw us, DE. It was hardly ambiguous when we said "it takes too long" - pretending to only hear "loid is too slow" and then sabotaging things by making the distance longer is petulance, plain and simple.

And the esophages. It already took too long to get out before because we had to wait ages for the damn things to reset. Now we have to sit there and sloooooooowwwwllllyyy hooooollllddd doooowwwnnn ttthheee ussseee buuutttoonn while infested are clawing at us before the damn thing will let us out. Nobody liked the whole "hold down the button" thing in railjack. Why are you actively adding it to more things? Whoever it is that dreamed this up and thinks that it should be stuck on everything new needs to be smacked hard. There's enough frustration in the game already without the game actively and explicitly getting in our way.

Also, it turns out that the whole "vaults don't reset with the wyrm cycle" thing is a complete lie, because my second attempt at a vault bounty run had two successive vaults with a single mech and then one with two mechs.

I didn't even try the later stage bounties - the groups that I was in went straight for the exit. One was where the host just left (thus breaking everything) and the second is where the whole squad gave up because of the reset which should not have happened. Seeing all the issues with the arcana missions flat out breaking (either through sabotage or not being told anything), I don't care to make another attempt. It's just as unfun as before.

I guess that I'll never have an exploding glaive, but honestly that's not much of a loss seeing as how utterly abominable their attack animations are.

Well, I mostly agree with you. I am also pretty sure the tier progression still resets with the Wyrm cycles, since that has happened to me too. Or maybe the Mothers run around and switch places (which would be just as stupid...):

But maybe we misunderstand each other. The solution to treacly missions isn't allowing more "speed", and increasing the potential drop rate of whatever one currently needs shouldn't be speeding up the hamster-wheel speed (for the whole game, more or less). Such a hamster-approach only leads to game design putting brakes on the hamster wheel, so you end up with "rush around like crazy" in combination with "forced/time-based brakes".

Instead of "speed & rushing", progress should also be dependent on insight, preparation, knowledge = "thinking" (= "patience"). There is a lot of that in Warframe, a good example is a dedicated "farming squad". Everyone will get "more" if they bunch together and design a coherent squad and a plan for the mission. There is also "speed", when farming Lith relics nothing beats the effectiveness of speed-running Hepit. But there is huge difference between these two kind of missions, one is always faster and better to do solo, the other one is always better with a pre-def team and a plan.

With enemies becoming only a nuisance later on, part of Tenno community treats most missions like a Hepit run: load in - rush to the objective/extraction - extract. This is pure "hamster-wheel", while it might go quickly and while this might increase your drop rate by a percentage (per time spent), for the most part it is also an incredibly boring gaming experience which gives you nothing (excepts slightly more drops). And boring is the anti-thesis of "fun", and having fun is why we play (and stay in) a game, right? The only time I enjoy doing such "rush" missions with other players is when cracking relics with new content. They also have a forced functionality when gathering lich murmurs, since that (boring) part is sort of based on the "rushing" concept (the opposite of "patience and thinking"). 

I did enjoy the Cambion Drift a lot, including the vaults. The missions as such are ok, but testing and finding the right setup to do them was a lot of fun. That incidentally is also why the current "Mother - open this here to do that there" sucks, it was a forced and totally unnecessary and "un-fun" hindrance to actually playing the game. Having done "a lot" of Isolation Vaults I hated the idea of having to do even more just to get at the new content, but I've now changed my mind. Killing the six Necramechs is actually a price I am willing to pay to be allowed to cycle all the tiers of the new content as many times as I like, without any extractions, loading screens etc. etc. Sure, even the new vaults get repetitive after a time , but the possibility of chill-playing them for hours without anything interfering with my actual gaming was a real win, for me anyway. Since I mostly solo them, it was a nice challenge figuring out what setup to use to get the most out if it. For me, that was interesting and fun "patience gaming", the opposite of the hamster-wheel. 🙂

Edited by Graavarg
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This is not directly an arcana/ISO feedback, but thanks for fixing the Une bounty allowing shields to actually regenerate and not just act as blue health. 

I liked the way the old cache bounty worked where you could snipe the tumors, since it felt different from the fortuna and plains cache missions where you had to get to each cache to open them, but I understand why allowing sniping might remove from the mission. (Just please increase the hitbox of the tumors as I find a glance a lot of the time unable to damage even when colliding with the tumor and thus the glaive explosion has to be used)

Could mission objective scaling based on player count be addressed. I like that the missions do have a bit of scaling, but in certain bounties this makes no sense and having the scaling occur while the mission is active sucks. The main culprit for bad scaling is the sac mission, since having more players does not allow the players to splash more enemies. (I would hope for a different bonus or just a removal of the scaling) I also think the scaling should only be applied at the start of the stage, as having players join mid-stage is just a negative. The bonus becomes more difficult(if not impossible sometimes) to complete while the new player is still loading in and is thus on the other side of the map not contributing to the mission yet.

One general problem that a few other threads have brought up is the horrible drops from the endless. Having a 50, 40 or 30% chance to get an amber star is way too high, once running 9 stages 7 of them dropped amber stars 77% of rewards being amber stars is not enjoyable.

Speaking of rewards, there are no good rewards in the tier 5 bounty once you have the blueprints. Eidolon had eidolon lenses, fortuna had unique set mods, deimos has nothing unique. I hope with the Lavos release that a unique non frame/weapon reward would be added to these missions. 

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