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Deimos: Arcana - New Arcanes Megathread


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Welcome Tenno!

With the release of Deimos: Arcana, we have included New Arcanes!

Residual Arcanes and Therorem Arcanes are geared towards synergising with each other to provide a different method of imposing elemental damage. Discover these new synergized Kitgun and Warframe Arcanes as rewards from the new Isolation Vault Bounties.

Kitgun Arcanes (max rank)
Residual Viremia
20% chance to create a pool of toxic blood for 12s, dealing 40 Toxin Damage/s and applies the Toxin Damage to Theorem Arcanes.

Residual Malodor - On Kitgun Kill:
20% chance to create a frigid mist for 12s, dealing 40 Cold Damage/s and applies the Cold Damage to Theorem Arcanes.

Residual Boils - On Kitgun Kill:
20% chance to grow cysts on the corpse for 12s that explode for 80 Heat Damage in 10m and apply Heat Damage type to Theorem Arcanes.

Residual Shock - On Kitgun Kill:
20% chance to electrify the corpse for 12s, dealing 200 Electricity Damage to enemies within 10m and applies Electricity Damage to Theorem Arcanes.

Warframe Arcanes (max Rank)
Theorem Contagion
Standing in a zone created by a Residual Arcane creates a globe that orbits the player every 2s. The globes will strike the nearest enemy within 15m dealing *150 damage *increasing their vulnerability to the globe’s damage type by 200% for 6s. Globes will persist for *30s upon leaving the zone.
+1 Arcane Revive.

Theorem Demulcent
Standing in a zone created by a Residual Arcane increases weapon damage by *6%/s stacking up to 15x. Effect persists for 5s upon leaving the zone.
+1 Arcane Revive.

Theorem Infection
Standing in a zone created by a Residual Arcane increases damage of Companions and summoned Allies within *90m by *24%/s stacking up to 15x. Effect persists for 5s upon leaving the zone.
+1 Arcane Revive.

If you have feedback to leave on the subject of New Arcanes, then please do so in this thread. Please remember that you should keep your feedback constructive and civil.

  • If you like an aspect of the new content, tell us what you like.
  • If you do not like an aspect, then tell us why, and what you would change to make it better!

Please bear in mind this is not a place to leave bugs you discover while playing. If you do need to report a bug, please use the dedicated Deimos: Arcana Bug-Hunting Megathread!

Thank you!
 

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A 20% chance to proc is too unreliable, hell, i'd prefer a "every 5 enemy killed" (even if that's still low) some would say that's the same thing, but if you ever touched a dice, you know it's not.

also, theorems should have a use on their own, you can't talk about synergy if one part completely depends on the other.

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its garbage arcanes, you have to stay at the same spot and hope some corpse spawn the area for 20%? really?
plus you have to use a slot on warframe which is outrages. you waste a good arcanes like strike,grace,guardaian, etc.
 

Edited by crossdark211
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The last warframe arcane is very interesting to me, as someone who tried to make companions do as much damage as possible. Naturally a Kubrow as it's the only one that does meaningful damage if and when it hits, right now
Is that 24% companion damage increase stacking every second up to 15 stacks, while YOU stand in the circle and NOT the companion?
Additionally, how do the kitgun arcanes work in relation to this specific arcane? It does no damage by itself, so does it add that elemental damage to every hit of your companions/summons? Is it added as base damage and therefore applicable to modding, or otherwise effected by %damage buffs on the companion/summon?

Is the damage of these arcanes modified by Ability Strength, or other %damage increasing effects?

Edited by Santvarg
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The warframe arcanes give alot of damage when paired with the others
90% increased wep damage? with the already high weapon damage people have NOW, this is a nice boost to what they have ,or gives people with slower, tankier playstyles a way to cover their lesser damage output
360% increased Companion/Summon Damage? Pretty big buff to beast companions, both regular hits and ability uses. I'm sure the summon boost is significant as well
Hard to say about the orb one without knowing how it's calculated, but the other increases are pretty high even with the least favorable calculation of their damage

They're not MEANT to do anything on their own, I don't see why they should need to, if they were literally created to work in a pair
 

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I am kinda glad these Arcanes seem like garbage. Farming full sets of 21, against the RNG, sounds like a boring PITA. Espiecially considering waframe counterparts don't even do anything on their own

Keep up the good work.

Standing in zones? Sounds like encouraging more meta afk macro farming.

 

Edited by Thelamaking
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my first suggestion would be: Increase the percent chance of the residual arcane creating a zone to 100% on max, but make each new zone created overwrite the last one

my second suggestion would be to change it completely into "on kitgun kill, x% chance to trigger all theorem arcanes once " and have x be somewhere between 50% and100% in max rank

I assure you, neither of the above changes would make these arcanes too good or even plain good. but they're a good start.

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13 hours ago, Santvarg said:

They're not MEANT to do anything on their own, I don't see why they should need to, if they were literally created to work in a pair

There's multiple reasons, but, generally...

Taking up two slot for one effect means the effect must be far more impactful than original effects. Guardian, Energise and Avenger already make that a tall order.

Interdependency is not synergy. Synergy is when two effects combine to produce something greater than the sum of its parts. Since the Theorems do not have -any- innate effect, it's not synergy.

Interdependence in this format is not supported by current loadout set-ups. You'd need to swap warframe arcanes every time you swap onto or off your kitgun, which makes for a far greater hassle than permissible for a sub-standard arcane that takes two slots.

Both the Residuals and the Theorem should be acceptable on their own and very strong in conjunction. Anything less than that fails to meet the design goal and will likely be binned by the community.

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You've got a point there with the definition of synergy

I just dont think they're weak when combined, 90% weapon damage at max stacks is not huge compared to mods but its still pretty decent assuming it's additive like everything else. If it's not additive then a straight up 90% increase to whatever you're already doing is really strong. You dont necessarily have to stand still, it's 20% chance on kill with the gun so you can easily create a path of circles you can gain stacks on by darting between them before 5 sec are up, considering the amount of enemies that are thrown at you

About the kitgun arcanes, thats why I ask how they work, because depending on what they are affected by, they might do noticeable enough on their own, they might do nothing
Seeing numbers like that when it's not exactly hard to do 100k+ damage on a charged weapon once the current story quests are complete, is a little underwhelming.

the companion one is basically A 2nd maxed out Maul at max stacks
I am still curious what the kitgun arcane damage added to the Companion theorem is affected by, I have yet to get my hands on a pair. I've made a 2nd account to reprogress with a focus on companion and it's not yet capable of soloing the proper content due to no endo. If the kitgun arcane damage is added to every companion hit and is affected by modding, it's crazy damage, even if it does nothing and just gives them the %-based damage increase, it's still pretty huge

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I really like the concept of "Set Arcanes", and I honestly do like these effects (temporarily adding single elements can be a really interesting mechanic, and having varied ways to direct that single element is interesting, too), but the investment on these is far too high. Right now they'll be a potentially fun niche, and I'll probably still at least try one pair of them, but they require a far too specific set of circumstances to even see their effect activate, and that kind of gameplay can be really frustratingly centralising and cumbersome, to a point that the effect just isn't worth even actively thinking about.

I'm already personally pretty skeptical when it comes to On Kill effects (since if you can kill one enemy there's a good chance you can kill them all anyway, so the effect has to be notably strong or tied to other utility to even matter), and that 20% chance really isn't offering any encouragement, especially when you consider that you'll have to go and stand in that 10m area before the effect even applies in the first place, and you have to use a specific weapon to even activate them, never mind the issue of scaling them to their max potential before the fight is over.

The whole thing just reeks of inconsistency, and for the cost of two arcane slots and potentially a primary/secondary weapon slot (for the kitgun, if you don't already prefer using a kitgun or maybe don't want to use a Kitgun that already has a useful Arcane on it Pax Bolt), that's not something you ever want to hear, even if I think the peaks of gaining up to 90% of a specific element on a weapon and also making the enemy up to 200% vulnerable to it could be genuinely great depending on how those values are applied.

Personally, I'm honestly really hyped for the idea of buffing a companion to throw a ton of one type of elemental damage, since I'm already a big fan of the Mecha set (which is already tied to companions and elemental procs - a natural synergy), but I can already feel myself getting extremely tilted by the idea of dropping stacks due to things that are just completely out of my control, such as On Kill RNG or enemy spawns simply not giving me enough to stack to a reasonable buff.

Running between zones, picking up buff stacks, and activating more zones quick succession with the elemental damage of your choice stacking out of the wazoo sounds really fun as a gameplay loop... -in theory. But the nature of spawning zones and duration numbers both really don't give me hope for this set ever being consistently more rewarding than it is trouble to activate. --and again, I think the peaks of this set have a lot of potential and could be really rewarding to execute, so it's a shame that I can see myself doing this exactly once and then just discarding the set as too frustrating.

It really does just come down to that activation being painful to even think about, though. If it was more consistent, I might even give the low duration a pass since you could plan ahead and create much less restrictive zones (though I'm sure that getting knocked down even once would still make the duration frustratingly bad to deal with), but as it stands I really don't like it being an On Kill effect (tied to a specific weapon, no less), and I really don't like the chance of it being so low.

It's a cool idea for a gameplay loop, and the buff sounds like it really does have potential, but the execution worries me a lot. I'll have to see if my worries are warranted or not once I get my hands on them, but I'm really not particularly hopeful.

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I really like the idea of theorem infection in particular and the flavor of residuals as a whole but triggering, upkeep, and similar factors found in actual gameplay are somewhere between frustrating and counterintuitive. Especially as the theorem triggers are tied exclusively to kitguns which I may or may not want to use. It seems more like exclusivity versus synergy.

I don't really follow the thinking behind making them 15s stacking gains acquired from 12s zones with flat duration thereafter instead of the same grace period + gradual decay, either, unless I'm misunderstanding that interaction.

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11 hours ago, Redfeather75 said:

You continue to think flat damage numbers on stuff is good in a game with ridiculous enemy health scaling.

Have these effects been tested, though? If the Residual arcane effects are enhanced by weapon mods/stats, they'd be fine. 

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2 hours ago, Colyeses said:

Have these effects been tested, though? If the Residual arcane effects are enhanced by weapon mods/stats, they'd be fine.

On the test server these Arcanes did very low flat damage without status effects. In other words they were utterly useless.

It'll take some time to farm these, so I can only guess for now, but apparently the only change is that the AoE on kill (20% chance) no longer flies away with the corpse (instead dropping to the ground).

So it is still utterly useless, but slightly less infuriating.

There are still major problems with these sets:

  • You have to kill with a Kitgun. No thank you. You screwed with the Kitguns I built one too many times, I'm done with them. There are much better weapons anyway.
  • 20% chance on kill. <100% chance on kill always sucks. We always tell you this. You never learn.
  • The Kitgun Arcanes literally do nothing. 40 damage per second is exactly nothing. How about you make them do something, anything? Groundbreaking concept I guess.
  • You want us to stand still? For 15 seconds? How about no? I'll just use a real Arcane and keep moving, thank you very much.
  • Contagion debuffs one random enemy every 2 seconds. I don't need an Arcane to kill very slowly, thanks.
  • Infection buffs pets. But you need to kill lots of enemies with your Kitgun to keep the effect going. Round hole meets square block.
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Standing still for 15 seconds is too much: to improve pacing, could be made into something like a Focus Orb, where every Residual has a chance to spawn a gatherable orb, which counts for the Theorem arcanes effects.

The Residual area damage are too low: they could have 100% status chance without doing damage, or make the damage scale with mods.

Contagion debuffs one random enemy every 2 seconds: it could affect an area rather than a single enemy, and a visual effect would be really nice.

Drop rates are too high for such underwhelming effects of Residual and Theorem.

Edited by UltDragon
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This is probably my first post on these forums, so please bear with me as I vent my frustration. For those of you who cant be bothered to farm for these things (and I dont blame you) Ill also include brief descriptions for how the arcanes appeared to function.

EXPERIENCES AND OBSERVATIONS

After grinding for the arcanes for a solid 10 or so hours and barely making any headway from a combination of game breaking bugs (the mist bounty specifically) to diluted drop tables, I decided to just buy the arcanes with plat to save me the suffering (and thank god trade chat thinks they're useless too so they ended up dirt cheap). Bought me an R3 Residual Boils, an R3 Residual Shock, an R5 Theorem Demulcent, and an R3 Theorem Contagion. I've tried to make these arcanes work; I've even invested 10 forma into a new primary kitgun and a new secondary kitgun just so I can run two sets of the Residual arcanes at once. But my god, all this janky "synergy" cannot compare to the basic usefulness of a simple Arcane Avenger or Guardian. I hope they rework these arcanes because this plat investment is currently a massive loss.

For those of you who are curious, R3 Residual Boils makes a zone around ~4 or so meters in radius (didnt measure; ballparking), and spawns mines in the zone. Allegedly the mines explode when enemies come near, but they do flat damage and don't proc status. They barely tickle anything over level 30. In comparison, R3 Residual Shock generates a much larger zone of radius 10m or so, but instead of doing negligible AoE like Boils, Shock summons a lightning tentacle and does negligible single target damage. My kitguns were modded and maxed, and the lightning tentacle did 83 damage to a single level 30 heavy gunner. Basically, the damage aspect of the Residual Boils and Shock is completely meaningless. I don't know about the other two Residual arcanes, but I won't be going for them if Shock and Boils is anything like them. 

Residual Shock visually has much larger zones than boils, despite both arcane's descriptions saying "10m". I suspect the Boils' "10m" refers to the blast radius of the boils and not the zone itself, while Shock's "10m" is the zone itself which is also the source of its damage. Could also be a bug; who knows. Since the damage that these zones do is pointless, the only things left to consider is the size of the zones and value of the element types. The R3 Boils zones are absolutely puny in comparison to the R3 Shock zones.

As for the Theorem arcanes, they dont function without a Residual arcane, which is kinda wacky. I like the idea of set arcanes that interact with each other, but these arcanes reminds me of the old melee combo system (especially Theorem Demulcent) with additional levels of RNG and arbitrary restrictions on positioning to maximize the lackluster effects of the arcanes.

Theorem Demulcent gives a pretty nice weapon damage bonus for 20 seconds when its maxed out. The problem is getting the stacks to max and maintaining it. I've been trying out Residual Shock and Theorem Demulcent in ESO as I level through those 10 forma, and sometimes I swear Im standing inside the zones and I dont get the Demulcent buff, and other times, I go to town on the infested stage and get zero zones for 30 seconds as I watch the stacks go poof. Like that other guy said, it's just extremely inconsistent and a massive hassle. Other arcanes will take you just as far with far less effort.

I briefly tried the R3 Theorem Contagion. It essentially gives you Nova's null stars (with matching damage), but the orbs proc status. Pretty much does exactly what it says on the tin. Orb flies off and hits an enemy in its range. Pretty sure there's no AoE, but I can be wrong. If there is, then AoE is negligible. I also cant confirm the damage vulnerability aspect. Even if I did, I doubt primary element damage vulnerability would much of a game changer, even if you can fit a warframe ability that dealt that specific damage in the debuff window, on that particular enemy that got debuffed. The orbs have a duration, but chances are, there's going to be something in that 15m range and the orb will immediately be consumed, making duration neglectable. Aside from the primary element damage vulnerability, there's no reason to upgrade Contagion past R3 since all of its "meaningful" stats remain the same. But then again this arcane is pointless anyways so idk

Theorem Infection... exists. The damage buff is significant, but its not significant enough to be worth a warframe arcane slot. And besides, companions are more for utility than actual damage. Unless the damage is enough to one shot a level 150 heavy gunner every 3 seconds, I dont think its worth a warframe arcane slot. Honestly, if the arcane increased vacuum radius by 4.6x instead, I might actually consider using it. Just imagine the 60m radius vacuum.

SUGGESTIONS (SORT OF)

As for how to improve the Residual arcanes, perhaps reference Exodia Contagion. For all the Residual arcanes, the damage should scale with mods, be able to crit and scales with crit mods, be able to proc status and scales with status chance mods, remove the RNG proc and bind activation to something player-controlled (such as alt-fire with a cool-down, headshot kills, or quite fittingly the entrati kill-charge mechanic for their weapons), and decrease the difference in zone radii between the Residual arcanes. If players are meant to be inside these zones, then Shock's zones are a comfortable size. The Boils' baby zones cannot be compared to the Shock's chad zones. I dont think small differences in zone size is bad, but this is absurd. Also, Im pretty sure Residual Viremia casts Blinding Cloud whenever it procs, so ideally have it not do that. In comparison Residual Malodor's cloud is nearly invisible.

From these changes, Viremia becomes a AoE DoT zone that ignores shields and whose effect persists when enemies leave the zone, Malodor becomes a AoE speed debuff zone, Boils becomes a high AoE burst damage zone with armor reduction, and Shock becomes wide area single target turret with CC capabilities. The zones' stats (dmg, cc, cd, sc) should be independent of the kitgun's stats but should still scale off the mods. An AoE cloud probably shouldnt be able to crit so often on a cluster of enemies, while the explosives and lightning arcs probably should.

As for the Theorem arcanes, having players standing inside the damage dealing zones meant for enemies seems like a bad idea. Not only are players' movements arbitrarily restricted to maximize the effects of these arcanes, but theyre also exposed to enemies as well. Now, assuming the Residual arcanes ARE NOT reworked, instead have the arcanes trigger based on enemies killed inside zones, or something else idk. Makes much more sense. You could... oh idk... have a chance for maggots to burst out of enemies that die inside zones, and maybe the maggots incapacitate and inflict elemental damage vulnerability upon enemies they latch to (Theorem Contagion 2.0). Kills in zones have a chance to drop energy orbs? Increase weapon damage scales based on max number of unique enemies present inside the zone? Somehow revives your helios that has been dead since one and a half minutes into the mission? The zone has a 100% chance to become a vacuum and picks up all the loot that drops within 60m of it?

That said, allowing the players to decide where zones are created would solve quite a few fundamental problems and allow for zones to be used more strategically and/or defensively as opposed to randomly popping up from a corpse. In this situation would the current scheme of how the Theorem arcanes proc would make sense. Except Infection. Remove Infection. Replace it with Theorem Vacuum instead. Or something equally useful; I can compromise.

TLDR 

funny arcanes bad.
but then again most of the existing arcanes are already bad so I suppose this isnt anything new

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Thought about it and in the end;

IDK about sentinels, but you can get Kubrows to hit fairly hard already without even using the hunter set effect. The Infection arcane will increase that even more
I'm looking forward to seeing the damage I can bring out of them with Infection... but that's pretty much the only arcane out of these I'd want to use
The kitgun ones don't do meaningful damage, and the other Theorems don't do anything I want or need. Don't need more gun damage, mine already do all I've ever needed, one shotting Sortie and Veil Proxima enemies, or otherwise killing several with a couple hits in the same amount of time, in the case of melee w/o combo points. (or being used for mecha set to instantly kill anything in range of target, but only in solo play cause the set is impossible to use while fighting with someone else)

Meanwhile, in the same cases there have been a few times my Kubrow wasn't quite capable of one-shotting them so im totally down for more damage for them

But the effects make them only ever good for endless mission types as all others have combat end too quickly. You need to constantly kill with the kitgun and even then with 20% on kill, like others have said, makes it hard to keep the zones up. Forget about non-solo play too, you'll never keep your stacks. Even if you create a 'path' of zones to go across, it makes your movement very inflexible, you'll likely never keep up with a random squad not running this Arcane pair.

What's the point of increasing your companion/summon damage if you need to very specifically ONLY get kills with the kitgun to maintain the buff?

Think the arcanes should not use on kill triggers with zones, both are not good for solo and especially group play. You should be able to keep your movements fluid, and not have to worry about not getting enough kills to keep your stacks. Currently, these also only seem useful to people who are already one shotting everything, if someone had to work at their kills for even a second more, they're boned. I think the stacks should fall off one by one every 3 sec or so instead of all at once

The damage of these, as described by users, is too low and need to have some way of scaling, perhaps as a % of triggering hit's damage or increasing (alot) per stack of theorem you have, dealt as the Arcane's damage type

The concept of these isn't inherently bad, but they should be largely reworked, no more chance on kill, no more zones, no more tiny flat damage seemingly not increased by anything at all. Best of luck with them

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Now that I've had a little time to experiment with Infection and Contagion, the feedback I'd provide would be - normalise the out of ring timer to 30sec minimum to allow more mobility, or else increase the % chance of spawning a ring on the residuals, the game often has downtime between skirmishes room-to-room or wave-to-wave and if we are already expending 2 arcane slots it feels better not to feel pressured for time to upkeep them with rng kill chances.

For Infection, other than increasing the timer to 30sec, if a change were to be made make it so companions/summons who are buffed by Infection have the same 20% chance of triggering the Residual you are using, since any kills allies make reduce the number of kills players can make with the kitgun - less kills, less chance of triggering the Residual to build the stacks and maintain the timers. The infection must spread.

With Contagion, perhaps rather than striking the nearest enemy in 15m make it a pulse that targets all enemies in the radius, perhaps extending it out to 25m, and refreshes the duration on already targeted enemies. Part of the problem I see is Warframe is what I'd affectionately refer to as a target rich environment and quite often the target nearest you isn't the one you are aiming to kill at any specific moment. Sometimes the nearest target is behind you, or beside you, or standing behind a barricade when your shooting the one down the line. Since your actively using a ranged kitgun since you need to be trying to proc the 20% chance at refreshing your arcanes, often you are engaging multiple targets, quite often outside the 15m range Contagion works at. Bringing it out to 25m would allow it to cover the effective combat range I'm normally fighting at, painting all targets in that range means that its useful at any specific moment rather than proc'ing on the Lancer 8m behind me, and you can bring some better synergy since it'll be debuffing enemies that will be taking extra damage from Theorem Infection or Demulcent - its sometimes hard to justify using a specific kitgun as your main weapon, using a specific Residual on top of it, and using a Warframe arcane slot as well. Why not make it a viable option to bring the Kitgun, residual, Contagion *and* Demulcent (most Warframes) or Infection (Nekros/companion heavy theme) if they have proper solid synergies together. More of an investment but things are working together to be greater than the sum of its individual parts.

Edited by Alymbic
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Having both Residual and Theorem arcanes is like paying for 1 effect for the price of 2 since Residual arcanes does next to nothing. So here's some improvement suggestions for them:

  • Up their damage and have them scale with mods, similar to Pax Seeker. It doesn't need to deal as much damage as Pax Seeker but just something to make their damage worthwhile.
  • Have them proc their statuses, make it 25% for status proc at r0 and 100% at r3.
  • Give it a guaranteed proc on headshot kills, similar to Pax arcanes, or at least up the proc % on headshot kills.

Theorem arcanes effect are good enough to be in their own slot, the main gripe is that you have to use them over a Warframe slot, so here's one suggestion:

  • Give kitgun a second arcane slot specifically for bonus effects like Theorem Arcanes. I think this is great potential for future kitgun builds to be able to mix and match main arcane effects (Pax/Residual) and bonus effects (Theorem) without having to feel wasteful about a Warframe slot.

 

Edited by tummeito
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