Deimos: Arcana - Glaive Changes Megathread

[Jaysus41]

I'd give the glaive overhaul a 9/10. It feels a lot like it did back in 2014 when it was my favorite weapon, but I need to dock a point for making me go out and farm a new mod (Volatile Quick Return) just to get back a functionality it had 6 years ago.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

2 hours ago, DD214Alum said:

I don't know that I'd agree with this.  When WF launched in 2013, 3 of the 4 systems the game released on were console.  They've had to support controllers since day one.

Well as someone who actually uses a controller (you're forum tag indicates you haven't had to firsthand); I'm telling you their 'support' has been poor.

the Default control layouts are terrible and don't conform to any of the standard patterns that a console gamer would expect. -normally FPS games follow tried and true logical layouts so a player can jump into any game and find things where they expected them.

and more importantly the controls should be laid out with ergonomics in mind - certain actions cannot be used simultaneously just because of finger reach issues. Warframe Defaults don't respect this, and many actions that should be smooth are not.

Part of the problem is an Excess of control actions; a keyboard has the luxury of plenty of buttons to assign while a controller does not. Your typical Console Exclusive game will tailor their UI and player experience around that limitation; but Warframe was designed for PC first and doesn't seem to have that mentality.

Note that there is No Public Test Cluster for Console; PC has always been prioritized.

[Grave.Knight]

I think the new Power Throw could use a combo window somewhere between .5 and 1 second instead of having to charge the throw before it reaches to your hand.

[Alpagaffeur]

I never talked on this forum but I feel like I have to do it now, lately I had so much fun playing the Glaive Prime with a secondary weapon, charging the throws was just so much better before this update, it was way faster, now even if I destroy my glaive mods by replacing everything with attack speed it's still slower than the old system. please give us back the speed we had in secondary dual mode at least. I feel like there were only a few people enjoying it and you just took it away from us.

[BesucherPrime]

I tried out the Falcor and it feels quite weaker than Xoris. So I don‘t plan potatoing it atm

For throwing, they have almost the same speed, so I was positively surprised by the Falcor at 120% wind-up speed.

However, the range on Xoris feels way more powerful. 12 meters are nice on Falcor but 16/18 meters on Xoris feel massive. Maybe instead of +100% radius something fixed like +6 meters?

 

I haven‘t researched much ob the Bio Lab, so Cerata will take another week. But thinking about the explosion radius, I suppose I‘ll just stay on Xoris for the moment

[Asrer]

Hi does Condition Overload work on Glaive heavy attack explosion? I have tried to test it, and it seemed like condition overload DOESNT work, I am not a experienced player, so maybe I may have made a mistake. Can anyone confirm this?

[Mu_Gera]

On 2020-11-18 at 1:23 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Orvius

• Quick Throws now perform the Hover Attack.

this nearly ruined it's unique hover attack, it should've stayed as the charged/heavy block attack cause the new way to do it is way too easily missed. and the hover attack was the main reason to use orvius too.

[xTysonx]

As much as I like most of the QoL, theres still iffy things that ruin the experience for me

• Manual Explosion still being linked to default melee key in Dual Wield Stance
• Staggering myself during a melee combo because of accidental "quick throws" with faster speed with the new explosion mods
• Losing all Melee Combo because of reason 1

There is just way too much going on the default "E" button, more so with the encouragement of chaining throws in such a short time window with Power Throw. We really need to just keep [Charge/Throw] and [Manual Explosion] as different hotkeys as the biggest problem that is turning me away from the good of these QoL changes is losing my Melee Combo Counter to accidentally setting off manual explosions by the game not having enough time to register my chain throwing with such a short time window while in Dual Wield Stance.

[ContiX]

On 2020-11-21 at 3:25 PM, Lakyus said:

However, I have one single problem with glaives, that use legacy mechanics: The throw itself.

1. Throwing a Glaive used to be considered a Heavy Attack before Melee Rework. For this reason, Heavy Attack Wind Up Speed (from Killing Blow and Amalgam Organ Shatter) affects throwing animation. Please change the throwing animation to be affected by Attack Speed mods instead!
2. Having too much Heavy Attack Wind Up Speed (+120%) glitches the input queue. If you throw it instantly and hold the melee input to queue, the Warframe does nothing.

 

Wait, is the throw not considered a heavy attack any more? I'm really confused now. If it's still considered a heavy attack, PLEASE DON'T CHANGE IT!

If it isn't a heavy attack now, what is considered a heavy attack? Just the explosion itself?

[Zaburino]

I don't know if this is intentional or not but For glaive prime, the blast that we trigger was suppose to be a Guaranteed Slash proc, but instead with this mod it got changed to Impact, or sometimes doesn't trigger any status at all, is this for balancing or a bug ? *it works normally with slash triggered on simulacrum, but on missions it procs impact

[XaoGarrent]

2 hours ago, Zaburino said:

I don't know if this is intentional or not but For glaive prime, the blast that we trigger was suppose to be a Guaranteed Slash proc, but instead with this mod it got changed to Impact, or sometimes doesn't trigger any status at all, is this for balancing or a bug ? *it works normally with slash triggered on simulacrum, but on missions it procs impact

This happens when you hit the enemy directly and you get the bounce explosion. You want to manual detonate.

Also: When using with a secondary weapon, you have to detonate with E, whereas quick melee or melee you have to detonate with the heavy attack button. If you're mixing this up, it can feel like you're manually detonating when you're really not.

[BesucherPrime]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb XaoGarrent:

This happens when you hit the enemy directly and you get the bounce explosion. You want to manual detonate.

Also: When using with a secondary weapon, you have to detonate with E, whereas quick melee or melee you have to detonate with the heavy attack button. If you're mixing this up, it can feel like you're manually detonating when you're really not.

Quite:

 

Hold E and release before fully charged = Quick throw. No forced procs here.

Hold E and wait for charged throw = Forced procs on hit. Falcor is electricity proc, Glaive Prime is slash proc.

 

During flight triggered manual detonation = Detonation proc. For Glaive Prime that is blast, not slash.

 

With the volatile mods the behaviour is alike, however, the on-hit explosions don't have the forced proc from the manual "heavy attack" detonation. You get the bonus of hitting and an added explosion.

 

So there are now 4 different potential play/mod styles:

Power throw, volatile Quick Return, volatile Rebound with blood rush / weeping wounds, or a heavy attack build.

The volatile mods made non-heavy attack throwing a lot more interesting, as you can have the fully charged thrown proc and AoE on top. Should do nice on high status throwns, like Cerata, or Falcor.

For Glaive Prime I'd try out a Power Throw build, as the x3 damage can come in juicy on that forced slash. Put on Amalgam Organ Shatter for faster charging

 

I guess power throw and the volatile rebound can come in quite handy. I dont't have the rebound yet, but i'd try that on Falcor and Cerata. Going to farm vaults soon.

[Lakyus]

13 hours ago, ContiX said:

Wait, is the throw not considered a heavy attack any more? I'm really confused now. If it's still considered a heavy attack, PLEASE DON'T CHANGE IT!

If it isn't a heavy attack now, what is considered a heavy attack? Just the explosion itself?

Yes. There is the normal and quick throw still. Heavy Attack itself is the manual detonation.

[ContiX]

If the heavy attack is only the explosion, how do things like Organ Shatter, Power Throw, and Killing Blow affect it?

[XaoGarrent]

3 hours ago, BesucherPrime said:

Quite:

 

Hold E and release before fully charged = Quick throw. No forced procs here.

Hold E and wait for charged throw = Forced procs on hit. Falcor is electricity proc, Glaive Prime is slash proc.

 

During flight triggered manual detonation = Detonation proc. For Glaive Prime that is blast, not slash.

It seems to be doing slash procs on manual detonation when fully charged in my experience.

[Kainosh]

On 2020-11-18 at 9:23 PM, [DE]Bear said:

“Hold throw” mechanics now apply in Equipped Melee mode!

Can you revert this for Wolf Sledge?  I don't care much about glaives, but my hammer went all bad for no reason.

Im sorry to say this, but Held mechanics are very awkward in warframe.  Sometimes they trigger from taps.  Coz all of that is affected by attack speed and other stuff.

Its very,VERY inconsistent.  Messy.

 

I want to throw this Hammer with ALT FIRE.   I don't care if it uses normal attack stats and only air detonation is Heavy.    Control inputs for throws and hits must be separate. Clean.

[edit]

 Best control layout for Glaives and other thrown melee would be this :

Primary fire button:   Melee attacks, Recall.

Alt fire button:  Throw , Detonation.

Stats don't need to be bound to buttons.  As in, Throw can use normal attack stats, even though it is performed with Alt fire button.

All you need to do is add "Increases thrown Detonation damage" to all "heavy attack" mods.  So that people could tell that the only thing that benefits from "heavy attack mods" is explosion.

 

[Dragazer]

The explosions in general seem to be unaffected by Condition Overload. The AoE that comes from Volatile Quick Return/Rebound don't seem to proc slash at all on Glaive Prime (however they do proc on the manual detonation)

Wondering if these are bugs 

[Dragonofdarkness13]

I don't like that Heavy Attack is not throw... because I'm having the same problem with Melee when the Heavy attack was holding light attack.
If my attack speed is faster than 1.0 on the glavie than rapidly pressing light attack if I lag on a click for even a split second I throw the thing ... I don't want that at all !!!
I wanna be able to press Heavy to throw and then again to explode it... OR if you are dead set on the Throw stacking than Heavy attack to throw and Light attack to Explode it while in flight ... Just Please don't have Throw be Holding Light attack so Combos can actually be used

 

[ContiX]

8 minutes ago, Dragonofdarkness13 said:

I don't like that Heavy Attack is not throw... because I'm having the same problem with Melee when the Heavy attack was holding light attack.
If my attack speed is faster than 1.0 on the glavie than rapidly pressing light attack if I lag on a click for even a split second I throw the thing ... I don't want that at all !!!
I wanna be able to press Heavy to throw and then again to explode it... OR if you are dead set on the Throw stacking than Heavy attack to throw and Light attack to Explode it while in flight ... Just Please don't have Throw be Holding Light attack so Combos can actually be used

 

I'd also say conversely that it also feels like the throw is slower, even with 120%+ heavy attack wind-up speed. It may not be, but I feel like my dude is just leisurely tossing the thing - unless I don't actually want to toss it. Then he's tossing it all the time.

Based on how it's working now, I'd personally prefer the throw to be the heavy attack (or at least triggered by the heavy attack button), but to not use the combo unless you blow the thing up. Less complicated.

I do have to say that I'm loving the "catch-and-re-throw" mechanic, except when my dude randomly decides to not throw it, or (as mentioned somewhere above with Power Throw), it doesn't come back for like 30 seconds because it decided to fly in a circle around you for a while. I feel like that could be an exploit, except that I can't hit anything with it.

Another idea that popped in my head that's probably not necessary, but would be nice: A toggleable indicator for the glaive when it's been thrown - a marker that follows the thing around, making it easier to tell where it is. As soon as it leaves your hand, it's essentially a flat line. I've been coloring my Glaives really bright colors with long sugatra, so it's easier to see, but it's still kind of a pain.

I'd also like it if you could explode the glaive at any point, not just when it's still moving away from you.

[Issun135]

could glaives get a special mod slot that only accepts thrown melee mods. as well as wolf sledge being able to benefit from thrown melee mods. also with large melee range on glaives the throw has a tendency to not track well or clip the environment enough to have it bounce somewhere else. some more delay before the throw charge starts up to help prevent unintentional throws will also help the flow of glaives a bit more. 

[ContiX]

40 minutes ago, Issun135 said:

could glaives get a special mod slot that only accepts thrown melee mods

Or just make all thrown melee mods into "melee exilus" mods. Not that melee needs an exilus slot, but it would be stupid handy.

[psflip]

I have 2 inputs for the Orvius.

First, the explosion does self damage which I found out the hard way. Good thing shield gating is a thing or I would be dead when I found out about this. 

Second, can this be the only glaive to allow the unique hover for both half charged and full charge throws? The timing to get the half charge is fairly difficult especially when trying to perform the hover while jumping. The hover trick is the reason why I use this over other glaives. 

[psflip]

19 hours ago, ContiX said:

Wait, is the throw not considered a heavy attack any more? I'm really confused now. If it's still considered a heavy attack, PLEASE DON'T CHANGE IT!

If it isn't a heavy attack now, what is considered a heavy attack? Just the explosion itself?

The throw adds to your combo count while the explosion uses it. 

[60framespersecond]

I honestly don't understand the given reasoning for the Volatile Quick Return nerf.

Quote

• Multiplicative radius increase was increasing Glaives with a high base radius to higher than intended ranges.

But the change from +100% to +3 was a net reduction for all glaives, even the ones with the lowest range (4*2=8 before, now 4+3=7).

[Traumtulpe]

29 minutes ago, 60framespersecond said:

I honestly don't understand the given reasoning for the Volatile Quick Return nerf.

Everyone with a Glaive Prime is using it now (not even because it is better than other melee weapons, just because it's a breath of fresh air to use a glaive again).

After every update DE monitors usage statistics, they don't seem to understand them though - they just see "number go up big time" and ready the nerfhammer. At least that's the impression they give off without fail.

You don't accidentally reduce something from ~4-7 down to 3 to "even things out". You do it because you want to nerf and are too cowardly to say it how it is. Next thing they say is "it was always intended to be 3m, we just fixed a bug".