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"Gay" is against Warframe rules


Riavid

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I said "try being gay" (what I actually said verbatim is below) to someone in region chat and got a chat ban that is lasting until November 21st. I said "try being gay" meaning "try living my experience" as the topic of region chat was about relationships and other stuff, feels pretty irrelevant now.  To be clear, I have had 2 responses from support, and after the last condescending and unhelpful reply, just now, I sent a long string of pretty harsh eff yous. I expect to be perma-banned or something when THAT message is seen...so I am here to talk about what pushed me to this point. And ask why this is happening and for an apology from Digital Extremes.

Here is our exchange:

"Hey there Riavid,

<Riavid> dont need to beat women off w a stick, tell em you're gay an dinto someone and they'll just go for them HAH

We remind you that the chat channels are provided by Digital Extremes as a courtesy to players, to give them a place where they can discuss all things Warframe. There should be no need to use the words you mention in discussing aspects of a video game. If your posts are respectful and on-topic, you won't need to worry about words that might get you kicked from the chat.

Riavid

Nov 14, 2020, 3:18 EST

This is the second time this has happened, and again the only reason I can think of...is that I mentioned being gay. You know I don't actively think to censor myself if for some reason region chat is having an off-topic conversation and saying something to do with being gay is relevant. I would love to know what the problem is SO I CAN FOLLOW YOUR DANG RULES PLEASE! Thank you.

[DE]SCA (WARFRAME Support)

Nov 18, 2020, 10:01 EST

Sorry for any confusion, I can try to clarify our position. The chat, as mentioned is to discuss all things WARFRAME. It isn't too tell people they should act gay.

This term has been removed as acceptable in our chat, due to the sheer volume of users purposely using it as insults or to discriminate against our LGTB community.

The suspension on the account will remain until 21 November.

Now....where did I tell people to "act gay"?!?!
Support doesn't care at all what the context was and is tone-deaf. I lost my patience. I will not be gas-lit by a video game company or lose sleep over people who can't separate gay people from trolls. I can't even edit the rude and impatient message I followed THAT last reply up with, or close the case myself to avoid more trouble. But do know I have worked in customer service and I feel gross for getting so mad. Not for using the word "gay".  I am sick to my stomach with this response and with this insanely silly and indiscriminate policy and way of handling things. I assume most people here...don't care? But I am gay. I feel discriminated against and bullied. This policy is not well-explained to me at all. I understand words like **g being censored and calling for bans. I do not understand censoring the word gay just because sometimes people use it to be insulting. I would be upset if you called me fat and ugly, but those words are allowed. So is the word stupid. You can say "don't be stupid", but not "try being gay".

DE can make their own rules. I am here to say this rule is offensive, inappropriate, and not well managed. But who cares what I have to say. This super gay tenno wants to go play Destiny 2 or something, but I am really gonna miss Warframe. Whether or not I end up getting banned for the actually harsh message I left after the above exchange, my relationship with this game has been deeply affected and probably won't ever be the same. All the while AGGP is a warframe partner?! XDDDDDDD LMAO THAT GUY CURSES AT PPL IN GAME CONSTANTLY AND HAS BEEN REPORTED MANY TIMES. So this leaves me feeling confused, stomach sick, and singled out unfairly. Sincerely, a GAY TENNO. But don't catch me saying that in region chat. If you care so much about LGBT peopole don't SILENCE THE MAIN WORD WE HAVE TO IDENTIFY OURSELVES FFS! K?!!!! THANKS!!!

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A: gay is auto censored out by the bot because bots cannot understand context. sure, it would be nice to be able to use it in the proper context but that would mean having chat moderated by actual human beings which is a lot more difficult not to mention expensive. It's a bit of a heavy handed fix, but it's what they chose to go with since they believed it to be the better option.
B: pretty sure that when they redid the partner system and its requirements that AGGP and certain other partners no longer fit the requirements, so he's not a partner anymore. (though someone could correct me if I'm wrong.
C: Sexuality, gender identity, religion, politics, etc don't really need to be said in a game. there are places for them already, it would be nice to have a place where we don't need to be bombarded with such controversial and unstable topics.

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11 minutes ago, Riavid said:

Sorry for any confusion, I can try to clarify our position. The chat, as mentioned is to discuss all things WARFRAME. It isn't too tell people they should act gay.

This term has been removed as acceptable in our chat, due to the sheer volume of users purposely using it as insults or to discriminate against our LGTB community.

This two sentences summarize everything regarding this issue. If you can't understand something as simple as this, I don't really know what to tell you.

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I'm curious why you think your sexual preferences must be made public in the first place. DE has disallowed the word as it has been abused to death to troll, offend, and disrespect others. I'm ok with it, I don't want to have, or see discussions about sexual preferences in a chat. Talk about warframe, you wouldn't have an issue.

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2 minutes ago, General-Pacman said:

This two sentences summarize everything regarding this issue. If you can't understand something as simple as this, I don't really know what to tell you.

I can't make my point any simpler either. I didn't tell anyone "they should be gay". The bot caught the word gay and I am banned for a week. They tell me this is to protect gay people. I am gay. I don't feel protected. I feel told to shut up. I genuinely feel frustrated and exhausted with this polite reply from some players "Sexuality, gender identity, religion, politics, etc don't really need to be said in a game" Then why is it important that we know Equinox is female? That Xaku is a them? Huh? Why wasn't the word Trump added to the word filters any time during the last 4 years? Why isn't the word sex on the filter? Why can people talk at length about all kinds of opinions that it would be an abuse of the reporting system to report but the word "gay" is unacceptable?
 

7 minutes ago, General-Pacman said:

This two sentences summarize everything regarding this issue. If you can't understand something as simple as this, I don't really know what to tell you.

 Lol dang, if you're genuinely not being sarcastic do let us know what topic you are referring to and where it ought to be discussed! :D

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6 minutes ago, (PSN)Dorian-Hawkmoon said:

I'm curious why you think your sexual preferences must be made public in the first place. DE has disallowed the word as it has been abused to death to troll, offend, and disrespect others. I'm ok with it, I don't want to have, or see discussions about sexual preferences in a chat. Talk about warframe, you wouldn't have an issue.

I don't understand how you can construe that as me "wanting people to know my sexuality". I understand your explanation for why DE has disallowed it and I think it is overzealous, chilling, and I don't agree with your or the other reasoning presented here. I feel like I am being gas-lit by ysome commenters here, and I expected that. Region chat isn't a place for political discussion? Then why is it a common discussion that comes up there? BEcause we expect people can be adult about it? Yeah, and if they're not there is a reporting feature. It is fantasy to say that only discussions about warframe happen in region chat.  Are the bans not coming down heavily enough? It is obviously a problem that I am being caught by the filter for saying the word gay, but reporting someone for saying "wisp has such a thick booty" is obviously draconian policing and abuse of the reporting system? And not against the rules....and not something I care to talk about or see either. It doesn't bother me either. I obviously don't care what is discussed in region chat. I care about what is action is actually taken against certain words and subjects, and the inconsistency. I do care when I am being singled out for joining the conversation, and I care that the focus is put soheavily on "talking about your sexuality" and not USING THE WORD GAY!

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6 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

That term can be used as an insult, thus the bot flags it and deleted it. 

Don't discuss this in chat and you won't have to worry about it. After this though I'm sure you'll have lots of time to think about it.

🖑

That term is the main term to describe LGBT people. It is the G in LGBT. I guess I should have said "try being LGBT". I am glad you are here to think about it with me. Because it is not consistent and it has a negative side-effect on actual LGBT people, which I believe is counter-productive to DE's intentions. Does that not make sense to you? The word stupid is used as an insult constantly in region chat, it has yet to be banned.

Thanks for your reply!

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Just now, Miser_able said:

you sure? or is that just you? I don't feel negatively effected.

Have you been banned for saying the word gay...? I am an actual LGBT person and I feel negatively affected. So yes! I haven't made any attempt to say I am speaking on behalf of anybody but myself. I am a real person, thanks. My point is if the policy is to protect gay people it doesn't make sense to me, given my circumstances I feel genuinely attacked and punished for talking about being gay. How do you not understand that?

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Just now, Riavid said:

Have you been banned for saying the word gay...? I am an actual LGBT person and I feel negatively affected. So yes! I haven't made any attempt to say I am speaking on behalf of anybody but myself. I am a real person, thanks. My point is if the policy is to protect gay people it doesn't make sense to me, given my circumstances I feel genuinely attacked and punished for talking about being gay. How do you not understand that?

I have not, because I know it is something the bot doesn't like, so instead I phrase my sentences different to avoid using terms I know trigger the bot. For example when I talk about my bf with some people I know in varies chats. nothing I say is part of the bot's list, so Im in the clear.

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7 minutes ago, (XBOX)sinamanthediva said:

ryan newman no GIF by Alexander IRL

For God's sake, why are you whining about a rule that has been in place for YEARS? I'm Gay and I know better than to use the word "Gay"in Chat.  You broke the rules and now you must pay the price for your crime! On a positive note, now you have more time for Grinder, so enjoy!

Lol thank you, this is the most sensible response here. I don't think the word gay should be auto-banned, but I know it's not up to me. I am here to whine for that reason. It feels like crap to say the word gay and be banned for a week. At night when I am caught up in the chat, sometimes I forget that the g-word is bad! I obviously don't say it enough to remember! It's ridiculous! I won't forget anymore, but it doesn't change the first impression it gave me. "Saying gay isn't allowed here. Point blank." I was really tilted they phrased what I did as "telling someone to act gay" too.  Anyway, you have succeeded in injecting sense back into my head. There wasn't much there to begin with clearly but thanks.

This should be in their Terms, it isn't, it's "general knowledge"? But I don't think it'd hurt to say what is obvious to some.

🤡🤷‍♂️

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I'm a gay tenno. The rule is there for good reason. I feel protected by it. This is a video game, and while they cannot stop it entirely from going off topic, region, which shouldn't exist imo, is for strictly Warframe topics. That is it's intended purpose. You are being treated the same as everyone when it comes to this rule, which is the opposite of being discriminated against. I don't think you understand how toxic region would be if the word was allowed, and they simply don't have the time to police for context. And so you understand, because they don't have time to police for context, they don't as a policy reverse chat bans as they are only temporary anyways. No offense, but as a fellow gay tenno, I think you are overreacting. I understand why you are overreacting, I understand why you are upset, but I think you are missing a lot of context and will regret this later. If you were rude it's not too late to update your support ticket with an apology, even if you can't edit. Support is just trying to do their job as they are trained I see no insult implied or otherwise reading those messages.

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Just now, Tesseract7777 said:

I'm a gay tenno. The rule is there for good reason. I feel protected by it. This is a video game, and while they cannot stop it entirely from going off topic, region, which shouldn't exist imo, is for strictly Warframe topics. That is it's intended purpose. You are being treated the same as everyone when it comes to this rule, which is the opposite of being discriminated against. I don't think you understand how toxic region would be if the word was allowed, and they simply don't have the time to police for context. And so you understand, because they don't have time to police for context, they don't as a policy reverse chat bans as they are only temporary anyways. No offense, but as a fellow gay tenno, I think you are overreacting. I understand why you are overreacting, I understand why you are upset, but I think you are missing a lot of context and will regret this later. If you were rude it's not too late to update your support ticket with an apology, even if you can't edit. Support is just trying to do their job as they are trained I see no insult implied or otherwise reading those messages.

Thank you for your reply Tesseract. Some empathy, which I didn't expect, was what I wanted. I did overreact and feel guilty and upset. I don't have good social skills when it comes to misunderstanding the reasons for people doing or saying certain things. I find the person in this thread who has left a "<3" in their replies for example to seem to be an example of someone hoping to provoke me. I understand I am over-sensitive and it leads to me self-righteously wondering wtf is going on and being aggressively defensive. Thank you for explaining to me in good faith that you actually DO feel protected and safer with this rule. It is easy for me to understand you and not get my back up when you approach the topic like that. No offense taken. Thank you for your perspective and advice. It is really appreciated.

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Like any word. The meaning can change based context alone.

There are times i use the word to essentially say something sucks or is bad. But that has nothing to do with romance or snu snu.

Why does your private love life need to be discussed in the first place? Thats not really our bussiness.

I see no logic in caring about or persueing romance personally.

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2 minutes ago, Riavid said:

Lol thank you, this is the most sensible response here. I don't think the word gay should be auto-banned, but I know it's not up to me. I am here to whine for that reason. It feels like S#&amp;&#036; to say the word gay and be banned for a week. At night when I am caught up in the chat, sometimes I forget that the g-word is bad! I obviously don't say it enough to remember! It's ridiculous! I won't forget anymore, but it doesn't change the first impression it gave me. "Saying gay isn't allowed here. Point blank." I was really tilted they phrased what I did as "telling someone to act gay" too.  Anyway, you have succeeded in injecting sense back into my head. There wasn't much there to begin with clearly but thanks.

This should be in their Terms, it isn't, it's "general knowledge"? But I don't think it'd hurt to say what is obvious to some.

For the record, it is a ridiculous rule but I think DE had the right idea in banning it since it was just easier than having to have an AI determine if its use is appropriate or not.  I personally hate it when people use the term Gay to mean something bad. Example: I can't believe I got banned, that's so Gay! It's a bad habit of many people, even if the person using it as such, isn't homophobic, it's still demeaning.  I am sorry you got banned but now you know its not allowed, period! It is nice to know there are fellow queer Tenno in Warframe, so thanks for at least being honest and upfront about it!

Have a pleasant tomorrow

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6 minutes ago, Riavid said:

Thank you for your reply Tesseract. Some empathy, which I didn't expect, was what I wanted. I did overreact and feel guilty and upset. I don't have good social skills when it comes to misunderstanding the reasons for people doing or saying certain things. I find the person in this thread who has left a "<3" in their replies for example to seem to be an example of someone hoping to provoke me. I understand I am over-sensitive and it leads to me self-righteously wondering wtf is going on and being aggressively defensive. Thank you for explaining to me in good faith that you actually DO feel protected and safer with this rule. It is easy for me to understand you and not get my back up when you approach the topic like that. No offense taken. Thank you for your perspective and advice. It is really appreciated.

Thank you for your level headed dialogue since the start of the thread. I understand why you reacted the way you did. 

I didn't find out the word was banned through a chat ban, as I rarely talk in chat, I tend to use the forums more. But when I first read a thread here years ago about the issue, and found out the word was banned, it was a weird feeling. I wasn't sure how I felt about it at first. I'm not sure how I would have felt if I had found out with the gut punch of a random chat ban. I get the reasons why it was banned though and iff a chat does go off topic English has plenty of synonyms, and the word is banned to avoid toxic misuse, not because DE is against gay people. So I accepted it after some thought. 

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