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Public Test Weekend #3: Update Notes (Deimos: Arcana Preview).


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vor einer Stunde schrieb Orokin:

Please stop justifying this nerf by calling people running Odin "single strategy AFK-Macro-run". We get it, you don't want people getting that much Kuva. Don't insult player's intelligence by once again claiming people are doing something that they really aren't. 

 

Don't deflect blame on the players. If AFK farming was really an issue, you would ban them and not do a COMPLETE REDESIGN of the reward structure.

Yup, DE is just looking for a scape goat to justify nerfing the kuva gain. If they really wanted to make survival a less campy mission they could have done that years ago.

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6 minutes ago, --RV--arm4geddon-117 said:

AFK/Macro and Odin in the same sentence is the most stupid and poorest excuse dear DE, the way an organized group farms Odin and the way the mission itself is structured i can guarantee you that doesn't allow for that so called afk'ing/macroing thing.

You got pissed off that another good farm was found after the changes to Ophelia and the community outsmarted you end of story.

You want to just drop the hammer of the best way to farm kuva but you should ask yourself : why people are so obsessed with it ?

Because the way your dear riven RNG layers and rolling costs work mean it's hundred thousand kuvas into a gambling machine, whose original purpose was to give more revenue and boost less used guns...

All those layers of rng are surely helping, because when you roll negatives such NEGATIVE damage, ms etc it's surely gonna an improvement. yeah right.

How about you start addressing the kuva costs for rolling and remove some kind of bi_tch negatives like neg dmg/cc/cd/ms, and reduce the costs from 3500 to 1750?

Or perhaps when more people can afford more rolls you're afraid that rivens with godlike stats will be more common so prices may drop and less people will open their wallets to buy plat ?

Mhhhm

Ultimately, the problem is kuva and rivens in general are not really that fun.  There is no way to progress your weapons without a lucky riven roll, and thats after farming hundreds of thousands of kuva to do so.  If there wasnt that perverse incentive, people wouldnt be figuring a way to minimize the farming pain with Odin.

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Quote

Generally speaking, we felt Zephyr needed the most attention

You got that right, which sure makes me wonder why you are still trying to number-tweak her worthless 2 into something worth 50 energy. "Throw a fireball" will never be that no matter what you do to it. Also, unless you actually increase the pickup range of her tornados, that will also continue to be useless.

It's been SIX. YEARS. since Zephyr released, and in all that time she has never had more than a few low-effort, umambitious tweaks. Her 2 and 4 need to be completely scrapped and redone, and her 1 needs a heavy rework in functionality, in particular the hover which is good for absolutely nothing. Can you please, PLEASE put forth the time, thought, and effort to actually modernize her in a way that makes her competitive with modern frames? This isn't it.

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27 minutes ago, UnbiasedOne said:

Ultimately, the problem is kuva and rivens in general are not really that fun.  There is no way to progress your weapons without a lucky riven roll, and thats after farming hundreds of thousands of kuva to do so. 

No... What? Rivens are not necessary at all, they just are able to make the process of getting things efficiently more simple. You're making your statement based on the 1% who do only this, in the most efficient way possible. You're still perfectly capable of managing in nearly every case without one. Also, just because you don't see them as fun doesn't mean others don't. Without rivens, we wouldn't be able to have fun with negative flight speed on projectiles, turn certain weapons into interestingly useful hybrids, etc. While I do agree with the sentiment that they buff powerful weapons too much in relativity to weaker ones, why can't that be the focus instead of killing interest in a system that many players actually enjoy a fair bit.

Edited by iPathos
Autocorrect inserted the wrong word.
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44 minutes ago, --RV--arm4geddon-117 said:

AFK/Macro and Odin in the same sentence is the most stupid and poorest excuse dear DE, the way an organized group farms Odin and the way the mission itself is structured i can guarantee you that doesn't allow for that so called afk'ing/macroing thing.

They didnt even specify Odin though in the explaination. So likely they refer to both Odin in general and interception overall aswell as AFK farming survival with a certain specific frame. Since those two things line up more with 1% than Odin alone, which would be more like the top 0.5% given that there are 250 nodes on the map and they mention all missions since all venues are now buffed aside from those few 1%.

edit: Which also means legit survival farming is buffed.

Edited by SneakyErvin
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Did someone say something about Blood Rush being usable on Garuda's Claws? No?

 

Because that would be just as nice a buff/gift for Garuda as the new Augment, really.

 

 

 

Also, with the review of Steel Path and Teshin's offerings, can we get another look at the Bishamo armour for Operators? The female set looks a hundred times better than the male set, and I would honestly just, kinda like the ability to mix and match the components. Yes, that is explicitly me saying that I'd like to be able to equip a couple of the female set components on a male Operator, they really do look that much better.

 

Thank you very much for the update as a whole, though, looking forward to it. The infested K-drive sounds wild, tbh.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

In our view, it’s better to reward broader diverse play than hyper reward idle strategies

So why i don't see any committment in new gameplay design toward this view? It's 7 years that you are recycling over and over the same "kill enemies around this point while waiting for a timer to expire", for each gamemode or bounty that you deceptively claim as 'new'. Do you seriously think that Steel Path won't remain a soup of idle strategies with the current missions design?. Just be honest and limit your exhortation to say that it was to prevent kuva inflation.

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3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

In our view, it’s better to reward broader diverse play than hyper reward idle strategies, and the stats confirm this to be the case. On paper the absolute Top 1% of missions will see less Steel Essence per hour (i.e the single strategy AFK-Macro-run), every other mission strategy will see more.

Well said! Fun gameplay is preferable to efficient gameplay. Steel Path, here I come again!

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@[DE]Rebecca

There is still more to be done;

The chroma and Zephyr changes are ok but their still need more, I will say the the 1st ability visuals in linking to enemies looks stupid it just looks like the kuva nukor the best thing to do is to just increase it`s base range and put the elemental switching on the 2nd ability coz the press/hold on his 1st will be clunky for controllers.

Here is more info on what these frames need.

 

As for Ash he needs a lot more work and the changes does nothing coz of the marking mechanic makes bs have slow activation speed and other players can take his kills. 

Here are two post about Ash, on is why he needs a revisit based on his issues, stats and thing you can try to see his issues and one giving him solutions to all his issues.

 

Steel path need a lot more than this their need to be an incentive for ppl to play this and their needs to be more rewards. Here is a post on how it can be improved.

 

As for necromechs can we in the future get skins for them? and not colour skins I mean skins that completely changes the way it looks also...

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Necramechs (Bonewidow and Voidrig) now have a built in vacuum!

If you can add this to necramechs, you can add this to warframes. Also for console players, revert the cursor changes back the way it was it`s not necessary and it`s still a pain to use. 

PLEASE TAKE THESE SUGGESTIONS INTO CONSSIDERATION.

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So whats the interval on acolytes spawn now? Why does everything had to be time-walled, only 5 essence missions per day? Its like you dont want people to play Warframe. You should know better that most players rather play few hrs on a weekend, not 20 min every day.

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First:
Thanks for the information.

Second:
I can't speak to the weapons usability, because no PTS access.

Third:

2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • Residual Arcanes will now leave their AoE at the position of the enemy at the time of death. You will see a ring on the ground (with upgraded FX) that you can enter to begin your Residual/Theorem buffing process. This means you will not need to search for corpses that may have been blown off in the distance -- instead, you should have an easier and faster means of finding these AOE rings.
  • Significantly increased the active Duration of your stacks after leaving the AoE (from 5 to 20 seconds). 

Better.
Still wouldn't call the fundamental concept good (for all the reasons I listed in the last thread), but these changes certainly make them less restrictive.

 

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Chroma:

  • In addition to Chroma being able to select elements in mission real-time (the biggest change), Chroma’s selectable element HUD now uses colour coding in addition to icon coding.

[color=red]This has been a requested change. That said, it'll honestly likely have more impact on the Helminted ability than for Chroma - as most of the elements don't have too much of an impact. imo, at least.
The color-coding is excellent, and good job to the person who caught this.[/color]

  • Increased Spectral Scream damage from 200 to 400 Damage Per Second at Max Rank. This, combined with 100% Status Chance and Chaining should lead to some more deadly or useful scenarios, especially since you can use all 4 elements now!

[color=red]I'd have to go over the math for Spectral Scream & Vex Armor again, but iirc the only plausible use-case for the damage aspect of it was as Toxin against unarmored Corpus.
As to status:
Chaining is nice (more coverage), 100% status is potentially great (particularly if, as I recall, it works with elemental damage buffs (on-demand Rad Corr or Mag procs independent of gear!)). 

That said, can you switch SS element while it's active? Might see use for spitting rainbows, otherwise will most likely do a Vex Armor: 95% of the time it's 1 of 2 elements - particularly since you can't leave it running for passive damage/status while using your weapons.
(Though thank goodness (and y'all that) it no longer locks out your mobility.)[/color]

Feedback inline in red.

 

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Nekros’ Soul Punch now has a new mechanic: Marked for Harvest. Enemies that are hit by Soul Punch but don’t die have a Duration wherein they’ll be eligible to become a Shadow if killed while Marked! 

Now this is excellent.
As a sidenote: The kitgun arcanes could really use such a mechanic (i.e. 'duration wherein effect applies if target dies'), if you mean them to be used in combination with anything - otherwise they're entirely self-referrential/self-reinforcing past mid-star chart.

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is in addition to the 25% lethality change and Shadow healing.

Shadow healing is good.
25% lethality is, honestly, mostly useless for Nekros, because he has no shenanigans to pull, and can only do brute-force damage.
It's very similar to the issue with Parazon mercies.

Either
you have the damage to take a target down to 25%, in which case killing it with damage isn't much of an issue (and you'll've likely killed it with your damage before getting to activate Soul Punch), or
you don't have the damage, in which case 25% lethality does nothing.

 

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Airbust now has a 50% chance of dealing a Physical status effect hit by this slice of air or it’s explosion radius, heavily skewing towards Slash. 

I get it.
But please, address the fundamental problem with Damage 2.0 rather than giving every damage source slash procs.

 

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

increased the range up to 9 meters for this Augment! 

FWIW, that's enough base range that I would actually consider using it, now.

 

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Steel Path + Acolyte Changes 

...
In our view, it’s better to reward broader diverse play than hyper reward <specific> strategies,

Not sure what the 'idle' comment is about (but haven't looked into the state of Warframe macro-farming in upwards of 2 years).

So, with my tweak to the sentence?
Amen. More of this, please.

That said, I would probably have left Eximus units dropping Steel Essence (and possibly nerfed the amount slightly, or removed its elligibility for additional drops) so people who want to do it that way would have the option.

 

The bounty changes mean nothing to me, but

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:
  • Necramechs (Bonewidow and Voidrig) now have a built in vacuum!
  • Enemy Necramechs now have the ‘Lich’ treatment with vulnerability to Status Effects!
  • Increased Shared Affinity Range in Landscape missions to 250 meters from 50 to assist with all things levelling on Landscapes

These are all excellent.

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3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Steel Path + Acolyte Changes 

In addition to written feedback and the poll results, we did a full statistical review of the amount of Steel Essence earned this weekend on both Test and Live, and we are moving forward with the values provided on the Test Cluster: 3 per Steel Essence Incursion Alert, and 2 per Acolyte (eligible for Resource Amount Boosting). 

We settled on these values because of what happens when they're broken down by different acquisition methods: people gain Steel Essence at better rates when playing normally (i.e no AFK Macro detected)! In practice, the actual dependency on RNG and Eximus spawning is gone. You will have a stable, matchmaking friendly way to reliably earn Steel Essence in shorter intervals across more content. 

In our view, it’s better to reward broader diverse play than hyper reward idle strategies, and the stats confirm this to be the case. On paper the absolute Top 1% of missions will see less Steel Essence per hour (i.e the single strategy AFK-Macro-run), every other mission strategy will see more.

From my humble point of view, this is a weak argument.

Apparently, you are able to detect "AFK-Macro" users, so why not have those trade banned (if I remember correctly, it is against TOS) while the legit players can go about their business? If you want Steel Essence to be more accessible, you could just max the Eximus spawn rate from minute 0. You told us that one intention of Steel Path was for players to have less waiting time before it becomes interesting, but the Eximus ramp up is the same as in the normal star chart.

This would be much more transparent and believable, if you told us upfront the amount of --let's look at the actual metric-- Riven rolls per hour of playing/farming you want us to get. Some kind of target value. Ten rolls for an hour of Kuva farming? 20? More? Less?

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3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Generally speaking, we felt Zephyr needed the most attention

Then I wish you guys focused on just Zephyr, to be honest. 

Tailwind is still a mess. I'd MUCH rather use Gauss's Mach Rush for fast Traversal. Tailwind just feels clunky and outdated. I don't have the amount of control over it that I'd like, resulting in me hitting so much geometry or flying too far that I'm better off just not using it. And let's not forget about how bad Hover still is. Zephyr is forced to be vulnerable, on the ground, to charge it up, then sit still in the air and have limited options of escaping the Hover.

Air Burst...I'll wait and see how it goes. I always saw it as a CC skill rather than a damage skill honestly. The CC needed to be in line with gauss's Mach Crash augment's effect, but I'll wait and see just how much damage Air Burst can put out to see if it can be useful that way.

I'm surprised to not see any further Tornado changes. Static Tornadoes are great, but from what I see, they still randomly spawn on top of enemies. This means that they can become a nuisance if they don't spawn where you want them to. This especially can slow down defense missions a ton. Just let us spawn Tornadoes where we want them to spawn, whether it'd be one Tornado at a time, or all Tornadoes in one single spot. This would allow some natural synergy with Air Burst as well.

 

I really hope what we got isn't the end of Zephyr tweaks. I had been waiting for more since she was tweaked with the Plains of Eidolon introduction. She just needs a few more things to be in the right spot

Edited by EchoesOfRain
typo
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3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

In our view, it’s better to reward broader diverse play than hyper reward idle strategies, and the stats confirm this to be the case. On paper the absolute Top 1% of missions will see less Steel Essence per hour (i.e the single strategy AFK-Macro-run), every other mission strategy will see more.

Exuse me? Did you just say, most effective way of playing WF is AFK and Solo? =)

And what about you calculations... I get 100 essence for 1h, and 250 for 2h. I have no idea why you can't double end of mission resourses (while credits are doubled with boosters), but that's doesn't really matter. Does 5min spawnrate is correct? 4 (booster) x 12 (60mins/5)=48. Let's just add 5x3 mission reward... Maybe we should apply limitation to a playing only daily missions? Well 24+15=36 vs 50 still...

I mean, don't get me wrong, this is not a tragedy anymore, and now it's sounds like a fair trade... But 99%? What is there, every single SP mission?

P.S. Without boosters? 12+15=27 vs 25. Well, for newbies it's now much for friendly. Maybe we should also lower the lvl? Just to not force new players finishing regular starchart first.

 

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1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

The new system is a major buff to the intended method of acquiring essence but is a nerf to the meta-exploiting. I really don't see this as a bad thing (I do see it as unfortunate because who doesn't like stockpiling millions of kuva?).

No, no, no, if you would have followed the forum over the last week or so you would know that most SE farmers simply do it for the challenge. They have spent hundreds of hours doing long runs because of the challenge. Getting thousands of SE they never really intended to use, you see. And now they are sad because the challenge won't feel the same without that big pile of SE at the end of mission (even though the challenge is exactly the same). The logic is simply awesome.

[sarcasm off]

Man, I agree with you 100%. Even though part of me wishes I had exploited it more than I did, I am still convinced I got more fun out of Warframe doing other stuff. And I am pretty sure all (normal-between-the-ears) players knew all along that they were getting a lot more SE than intended by gaming the system, so it is a bit hard to understand all the surprised hurt now that it is finally getting fixed.

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Amazed at some of the responses to the Steel Path change but I get it's not about the change itself , rather how they are framing it on "AFK macro farming", which is total nonsense. The change itself is pretty positive since efficient Kuva Farming will be a little more accessible and the amounts will actually make sense (compared to insane amounts you could farm the past few months on Ophelia then Odin). Maybe vets will feel robbed but a majority of the player base that just plays the game and doesn't treat it as a job will likely benefit from this.

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Use of the test cluster is always welcome. You guys seem to be reassessing your "caliber" of production in the latter half of this year and that's very promising as overambition has actively hurt the game in the past. Excellent patch so far, keep it up!

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