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Don't kill Aegis Storm.


FulfillMyWill

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After the update 29.5...

  

16 часов назад, [DE]Megan сказал:
  • Fixed being able to cast Subsumed Abilities during Hildryn’s Aegis Storm.

    • This fixes a host of issues that were caused by many Subsumed ability combinations with Hildryn. Each ability presented a new individual issue. 

... which kills all the synergies between Hildryn's 4 and some subsumed abilities. For example Harrow's condemn could fuel shields when there are a lot of enemies nearby, while Revenant's reave could allow you to have that very much needed speed during "heli-mode".

As Hildryn main, it pains me to see such approach to the "fixing a host of issues", especially after devs themselves showed, that Aegis storm is among of the most discarded Hildryn's abilities when used by the helminth system. None of the synegies were game-breaking (unlike energy siphon for example) and brought a few new fun ways to play Hildryn.

 

Please, DE, if you read this, consider reverting this unnessesary change.

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I used fire blast while on her 4, and sure, it was convenient and cool to strip the armor of my enemies and cc them, but it used up alot of my shields, which are being drained by my 4, so i think it was a fair trade, and therefore, balanced. In my opinion at least.

Rebuilding shields WHILE using 4 on the other hand (Covenant or rebuild shields), well, that IS OP i think, unless you cast your 2 before using your 4, in which case it's fair game.

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48 minutes ago, Kaggelos said:

Rebuilding shields WHILE using 4 on the other hand (Covenant or rebuild shields), well, that IS OP i think, unless you cast your 2 before using your 4, in which case it's fair game.

Reading the reasons behind the change, probably they started with this and ended up changing everything seeing how things were going

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4 hours ago, FulfillMyWill said:

After the update 29.5...

  

... which kills all the synergies between Hildryn's 4 and some subsumed abilities. For example Harrow's condemn could fuel shields when there are a lot of enemies nearby, while Revenant's reave could allow you to have that very much needed speed during "heli-mode".

As Hildryn main, it pains me to see such approach to the "fixing a host of issues", especially after devs themselves showed, that Aegis storm is among of the most discarded Hildryn's abilities when used by the helminth system. None of the synegies were game-breaking (unlike energy siphon for example) and brought a few new fun ways to play Hildryn.

 

Please, DE, if you read this, consider reverting this unnessesary change.

The bolded parts are a contradiction. 

DE doesn't want you using Rebuild Shields and Condemn during Aegis Storm because with proper gameplay you can keep it up pretty much forever doing that. So, at least as far as DE intends the game to be played, Condemn and Rebuild Shields are gamebreaking. 

Whether you agree with them on that isn't important. What does matter here is that they clearly are very against people staying in Aegis Storm long term/indefinitely. 

Does that mean the ability needs to be redesigned or retouched? Maybe. 

Should they have used a scalpel instead of throwing out the baby with the bathwater? Absolutely. 

But let's not act like there weren't any problematic synergies here... we aren't going to get anywhere with DE here if we are denying the actual issue, which is that they don't want anything that allows us to essentially "perma-channel" her 4th ability. 

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I believe the biggest thing about Aegis Storm is the possible exploit. Just thinking about it right now.

DE has seen too much macro AFK players that break everything DE has been trying to avoid. "Any Mechanic" that can help with this AFK macro spamming is not healthy for the any game... Khora and Nova macro camping Steel Essence for entire nights and possibly till the user comes back onto their PC. Looting with exploits breaks the entirety of the looting system.

So how does this apply to those two abilities you mentioned? Active Aegis Storm too CC enemies, on top of just CC, gererates infinite energy orbs camping in a corner where there is only one hall to attack from. Since Hildryn does need to move to collect energy orbs, this doesn't break it till you allow Condemn to infinitely regen Hildryn's own energy while tying down enemies, which can be macro'ed spammed. She doesn't break the farm, but what she does is allow other frames that can spam scaling high damage with macro's going AFK like Khora, Buruuk, Excal, Mesa, Atlas and Khora.

Trinity doesn't work in this manner because her cast is line of sight on a single target at a time. If someone was to macro it they would run out of energy if it doesn't land on any enemies.

I've never seen this before but just thinking about is game breaking. While Energy Siphon is not great also, it does nothing to the loot drop exploits. DE already has bots that trigger no rewards for AFKer's. So too bad for them who do that kind of game play.

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Hildryn will probably get a revisit at some point in the future, I'm hoping for a buff to Balefire (sure it's OK damage wise, but there's little reason to use it over any other Secondary) and a rework to Aegis Storm... I basically never use Aegis Storm, because I can't think of a place where it's actually useful. her 2 and 3 are fine though.

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How is removing unintentional interactions with an ability and subsumed abilities going to "kill" an ability?

Aegis Storm worked just fine before Helminth was added and it'll work just fine without a handful of broken synergies.

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35 minutes ago, trst said:

How is removing unintentional interactions with an ability and subsumed abilities going to "kill" an ability?

Aegis Storm worked just fine before Helminth was added and it'll work just fine without a handful of broken synergies.

define unintentional  and define whats broken with the each specific broken synergy , also define broken in warframe because its really vague conidering we are playing the game called warframe .

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14 часов назад, Tesseract7777 сказал:

The bolded parts are a contradiction. 

DE doesn't want you using Rebuild Shields and Condemn during Aegis Storm because with proper gameplay you can keep it up pretty much forever doing that. So, at least as far as DE intends the game to be played, Condemn and Rebuild Shields are gamebreaking. 

Maybe, being Hidryn main makes me more biased, but isn't Vauban's Bastile/Vortex with Protea's dispensary/zenuruk's Energizing dash also infinite? Still it isn't viewed as "gamebreaking". So, why Aegis storm+condemn is a no-no?

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19 hours ago, FulfillMyWill said:

After the update 29.5...

  

... which kills all the synergies between Hildryn's 4 and some subsumed abilities. For example Harrow's condemn could fuel shields when there are a lot of enemies nearby, while Revenant's reave could allow you to have that very much needed speed during "heli-mode".

As Hildryn main, it pains me to see such approach to the "fixing a host of issues", especially after devs themselves showed, that Aegis storm is among of the most discarded Hildryn's abilities when used by the helminth system. None of the synegies were game-breaking (unlike energy siphon for example) and brought a few new fun ways to play Hildryn.

 

Please, DE, if you read this, consider reverting this unnessesary change.

Welp, there goes my Infinite Aegis Storm Hildryn. Being able to instantly charge shields while it's active, making it essentially infinite, was the most fun I had in years.

 

Once again, DE's fun police mercilessly mows down any reason I had to return to the game.

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5 hours ago, FulfillMyWill said:

Maybe, being Hidryn main makes me more biased, but isn't Vauban's Bastile/Vortex with Protea's dispensary/zenuruk's Energizing dash also infinite? Still it isn't viewed as "gamebreaking". So, why Aegis storm+condemn is a no-no?

Well, those aren't channeled abilities. DE has a history of making it hard to stay perma in any channeled ability, even though their own modding system makes it almost impossible to stop people entirely. 

But by gamebreaking, I mean against the way DE wants you to play, not that it is more powerful than all the other crazy powerful things in the game. 

It's gamebreaking because they don't want you to be in Aegis Storm all mission, and it lets you do that. 

I'm not saying I entirely agree with their reasoning over the years, or totally understand it, but this is a very consistent position for them to take -- messing with your ability to stay channeled for long periods. 

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On 2020-11-20 at 6:44 PM, killerJoke66 said:

define unintentional  and define whats broken with the each specific broken synergy , also define broken in warframe because its really vague conidering we are playing the game called warframe .

I think what DE is trying to do is prevent macro AFK spamming. As some have stated dispensary is close to this mechanic but just doesn't provide sufficient spamming since the drops are not always what the player needs.

Because Condemn is Line of Sight but AOE with no target needed, it can exploit infinite self shields but more importantly spamming nuke frames can leverage the infinite energy produced by Aegis Storm when camping in corridors.

 

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2 hours ago, kwlingo said:

I think what DE is trying to do is prevent macro AFK spamming. As some have stated dispensary is close to this mechanic but just doesn't provide sufficient spamming since the drops are not always what the player needs.

Because Condemn is Line of Sight but AOE with no target needed, it can exploit infinite self shields but more importantly spamming nuke frames can leverage the infinite energy produced by Aegis Storm when camping in corridors.

 

sorry but doesnt sound convincing enough to me , also DE havent even fixed the energy siphon hildryn still so .. idk what youre talking about with the afk playstyle thingy , i cant realte because , even when you use melee , even with a secondary primer for CO , is so darn boring that i tend to go sleepy before 20 minute mark ... 

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18 hours ago, killerJoke66 said:

sorry but doesnt sound convincing enough to me , also DE havent even fixed the energy siphon hildryn still so .. idk what youre talking about with the afk playstyle thingy , i cant realte because , even when you use melee , even with a secondary primer for CO , is so darn boring that i tend to go sleepy before 20 minute mark ... 

And this is what I just stacked.

18 hours ago, killerJoke66 said:

I think what DE is trying to do is prevent macro AFK spamming.

Other frame will use Hildryn to camp in corners for infinite energy from Aegis Storm and set macros to constantly spam high scaling abilities that can keep killing enemies as they are coming from one direction. AFK macro meaning setting programs to run the key strokes so one can walk away from game and still complete the task of tapping the same buttons over and over killing everything coming in that directions. Therefore you dont need to play the game for as long as you want and when you do return just go collect the loot. and extract.

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Aegis Storm was designed to lock out other abilities from use, who actually thought an ability unrelated to the frame acted intendedly when it could be cast during Aegis Storm? Everyone and their grandmother knew it was an unintended interaction from the start, even those complaining now.

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2 часа назад, SneakyErvin сказал:

Aegis Storm was designed to lock out other abilities from use, who actually thought an ability unrelated to the frame acted intendedly when it could be cast during Aegis Storm? Everyone and their grandmother knew it was an unintended interaction from the start, even those complaining now.

All of her abilities, except pillage, worked with aegis storm before.

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6 hours ago, FulfillMyWill said:

All of her abilities, except pillage, worked with aegis storm before.

Yes and no one said it locked out all other abilities, just that it is designed to lock out abilites. Balefire was unequippable at start too while using Aegis. And the thing is, Condemn, Pillage and Replenish Shields all share a common thing, they rebuild shields, something DE likely doesnt want as an interaction with Aegis when it is active.

Why other helminth abilities cannot be used is questionable, but they are in the end not her own.

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And what exactly is so cumbersome about having to land? This has always been what you had to do before Helminth? It certainly isn't something that kills Aegis Storm. The proning that is built into Aegis Storm actually allows you plenty of time to cast Pillage (or Rebuild Shields, or whatever else) and reactivating Aegis Storm. 

So, perhaps I am missing something, but I am not seeing any downsides to occasionally touch ground to replenish shields while doing extra damage, on the contrary. What about this kills the ability?

(Disclaimer: I personally feel Aegis Storm to be a niche ability, only truly useful in rare situations, especially for solo play.)

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