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Traditional education and steel path


C4Mingus

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When i was a kid i studied on a traditional religious school (I'm old). There was a lot of old people working there as teachers or disciplinary staff and etc. I remember well what was their solution for everything they disagree with: ending it. If there is a problem with students playing ball games on the intervals: end it. The children broke the TV control from the media lab: close it. Someone played the piano during other time than music lessons: forbid the use of it. And this goes on .... the incapacity of understanding, the anxiety when dealing with difficult situations, the wrong decisions leading to others and others leaving the poor souls without resources to find a good solution, a middle term (balanced) one, culminating in the standard traditional one of destroying the fact or thing and leaving nothing or something very bad behind.

Well I think it's what is happening at DE right now. Balance is nice the majority of the players like it. Exploiting situations in game is bad need to be solved. Would a reduction on steel essence drop be enough? Or at least do it in a way were we can stay playing endurance like before? There are a lot of ways to do that. But the question is: there are A LOT of ways do to that. The amount of ideas and information you can find in this forum or in the Webb is enormous. But well ..... what we got?

The solution of doing this steel essence alerts were people stay put after the end of the mission waiting for a acolyte to appear one time and dies instantaneously is beyond ridiculous. And you wanna leave and people want to stay and wait ..... or the opposite ... and you wait and he doesn't appears.

I was happy to finally have the endurance missions to play. And i know a lot of people will miss it too. We don't care about the rewards. If the umbra forma will need to cost 5.000 steel essence so be it. Too much kuva? Rise the cost. Let people play what they want: you need people playing this. If its so important to balance the reward table change the reward table and not the game play.

I hope you people at DE fix this and find a middle term for the question. Its not possible that the only resource that you people have to solve things like this one is ending it. Its to mediocre ....

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19 minutes ago, C4Mingus said:

The solution of doing this steel essence alerts were people stay put after the end of the mission waiting for a acolyte to appear one time and dies instantaneously is beyond ridiculous. And you wanna leave and people want to stay and wait ..... or the opposite ... and you wait and he doesn't appears.

I was happy to finally have the endurance missions to play. And i know a lot of people will miss it too. We don't care about the rewards. If the umbra forma will need to cost 5.000 steel essence so be it. Too much kuva? Rise the cost. Let people play what they want: you need people playing this. If its so important to balance the reward table change the reward table and not the game play.

I hope you people at DE fix this and find a middle term for the question. Its not possible that the only resource that you people have to solve things like this one is ending it. Its to mediocre ....

I'm calling ABSOLUTE BS on this. The exact same gameplay exists right now ie long survival missions with Steel Path enemies and yet people are losing their minds. Why? Because of the rewards being taken away that you say they don't care about. There are god knows how many other frames capable of hours and hours of endurance in Steel Path, some that take a little more skill and some that take even less. But that's not what this is about, don't kid yourself.

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47 minutes ago, C4Mingus said:

game play.

 

You are lucky because the gameplay didn't change , before the changes you had to wait for eximus units to spawn which were as reffered to on multiple occasions by forum & reddit users  as being "inconsistent " .

Let's review :

Before the changes according to players spawns were inconsistent .

After the changes also according to players spawns are inconsistent .

Literally nothing changed in that regard .

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1 hour ago, C4Mingus said:

I was happy to finally have the endurance missions to play. And i know a lot of people will miss it too. We don't care about the rewards.

Sorry, but what are you complaining then? Endurance runs still exist in the same way if you "don't care about rewards"

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You say you dont care about the rewards, so there really is no issue or change with the patch.

What changed is that long endurance is no longer a must in order to be rewarded. Those that stayed 60-90 minutes will see a large boost or end up at about the same. Currently a 70 minute survival run that is completely unboosted without smeeta etc. is as rewarding as a 60-70 minute boosted+smeeta run pre-patch. And you dont need Khora or Baruuk to get to that point, you can play any frame and get the result aslong as you kill enough to have the acolyte spawn each rotation, which doesnt require much.

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and here we see the benefits of that "traditional education"... oh boy.

8 hours ago, C4Mingus said:

. Would a reduction on steel essence drop be enough?

to have reduced it any further would only incite even more anger. the carrot and stick approach only works if the Donkey thinks it can reach the carrot, know what I mean?

and yes, we're the Donkeys in that metaphor.

8 hours ago, C4Mingus said:

I was happy to finally have the endurance missions to play. And i know a lot of people will miss it too. We don't care about the rewards.

you can only speak for yourself in this regard. the endurance crowd is a small crowd, and the number of people willing to do long runs without rewards is smaller still. DE have made it no secret that they don't want people to play like this: refusal to add scaling rewards, ridiculous temporary trade bans if you leave with "abnormal" resource numbers, no additional endless modes (barring Disruption) and now the Steel Essence farm has been given the axe too. DE don't want you running the same single mission instance for hours on end, but they also don't have the guts to admit it.

8 hours ago, C4Mingus said:

Too much kuva? Rise the cost.

the Kuva for Essence thing is not so much because Kuva is cheap to buy with Essence, but because it's just FAR more efficient than the traditional farming methods of Kuva Survival and Siphon Missions. even if it cost 1000 Steel Essence for some, people would have Khora farmed like there's no tomorrow knowing they'd still get far more Kuva for far less time than if they'd tried to acquire the same amount of Kuva elsewhere. the fundamental problem is that Kuva is an infinitely relevant resource: it has a resource sink, and there's no reason for DE to be so stingy with it when RNG is all that dictates how much Kuva you need for a good or better result. they could have literally every misison in the game give you some kuva and it wouldn't affect the Riven market in the slightest: more people would be rolling, but that doesn't mean more people would get higher value riven mods, that's just down to luck.

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You can't necessarily discount the premise.

Rewards aside, OP can easily be right that steel path is dead now, because the rewards are gone... regardless if he wants them or not.

I guess my initial reaction is you have to reject the grind, so when they look over the precious metrics, they will have to entice the players instead of of them walking all over you as they please.

But then they just abandon that content too so I don't know, if it's on the community to shape up or we need the developers to get it together. Maybe I will blame both.

At the same time for people who have nothing else to play, I guess it's good that rivens are the bottomless time sink snakepit that they are.

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The point it's that they made a change too drastic in the game. They release a lot of updates and i don't see why they couldn't be more reasonable and change things on a slower rate. For example we have the kuva lich system that a lot of people rate and they did nothing. I think its obvious that this change on SP was because the kuva and the exploitation of game play. But you people are right pointing your view. It's just a game ... if it doesn't please you just go.

I'm probably angry by the delay of the punk one .....

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Well a little off topic, but I would like the acolytes to spawn faster the farther you run and receive buffs. It would be cool at 30 min and up if 2-3 would spawn in with abilities to remove your spells (not a complete removal though, but something), sentient adaptation, random elemental buffs. 

This would make it faster to run into end game level content and a reason to. Maybe at every hour the stalker spawns in with all 5 acolytes and you can’t harm them until stalker is killed.

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2 minutes ago, BDMblue said:

Well a little off topic, but I would like the acolytes to spawn faster the farther you run and receive buffs. It would be cool at 30 min and up if 2-3 would spawn in with abilities to remove your spells (not a complete removal though, but something), sentient adaptation, random elemental buffs. 

This would make it faster to run into end game level content and a reason to. Maybe at every hour the stalker spawns in with all 5 acolytes and you can’t harm them until stalker is killed.

This would be very nice. In my opinion enough to make the thing interesting .... Much better than the almost nothing we have now. I was happy with the challenge of getting more steel essence each run i did ... doesn't matter how much kuva it will give me. Anything that escalates with time in mission .....

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Acolytes spawn about every 5 min in endless so you can still do your endurance and you actually get much more in the fist hour - ~48 with a booster.

For more incentive DE could add some essence to droptables to make it feel like its rewarding to play endless. Now the only extra thing you  get is riven slivers, which really no one cares about - they quickly become useless cause of all the limits.

 

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Sounds like a lot of sophistry. There was a genuine problem with Steel Essence, brief players could get almost none, and endurance players were getting unhinged amounts. They didn't close the pool, or forbid the piano, they set up new rules for their use that benefit a vastly larger group of ppl.

DE isn't offering less to its players, it's offering more overall, and broadening their offering to make a niche feature accessible to the broader player base.

Beyond that, they offered an extremely compelling and unique reward which is exclusive to this method. And since you can only talk about what you want and have zero recognition for anything anyone else gained, I suggest you spend less time waxing long on metaphors and more time broadening your perspective. 5000 SE so you can feel good about grinding even harder for something that's impossibly unreachable for everyone doing the rationed content that would easily access it? ZERO perspective. 

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6 hours ago, C4Mingus said:

This would be very nice. In my opinion enough to make the thing interesting .... Much better than the almost nothing we have now. I was happy with the challenge of getting more steel essence each run i did ... doesn't matter how much kuva it will give me. Anything that escalates with time in mission .....

But you said in your OP that rewards didnt matter to you. Yet now you want escalating rewards? Huh? O.o

Soooo maybe it is time to find likeminded people to run those really long endless, which I assumed people ran solo for the "challenge" anyways. Maybe it would be wise to also run something besides the alerts, which seems to be the only place where people drop out after the objective is finished and the acolyte has spawned.

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15 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But you said in your OP that rewards didnt matter to you. Yet now you want escalating rewards? Huh? O.o

Soooo maybe it is time to find likeminded people to run those really long endless, which I assumed people ran solo for the "challenge" anyways. Maybe it would be wise to also run something besides the alerts, which seems to be the only place where people drop out after the objective is finished and the acolyte has spawned.

You think in absolute manners. But i understand you.

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18 hours ago, BahamutKaiser said:

Sounds like a lot of sophistry. There was a genuine problem with Steel Essence, brief players could get almost none, and endurance players were getting unhinged amounts. They didn't close the pool, or forbid the piano, they set up new rules for their use that benefit a vastly larger group of ppl.

DE isn't offering less to its players, it's offering more overall, and broadening their offering to make a niche feature accessible to the broader player base.

Beyond that, they offered an extremely compelling and unique reward which is exclusive to this method. And since you can only talk about what you want and have zero recognition for anything anyone else gained, I suggest you spend less time waxing long on metaphors and more time broadening your perspective. 5000 SE so you can feel good about grinding even harder for something that's impossibly unreachable for everyone doing the rationed content that would easily access it? ZERO perspective. 

I understand your perspective. And understand mine too. One thing could exist with the other ... instead they ended a way to play and started another. It could be more reasonable ... but anyway its over.

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2020/11/23 PM4点14分 , BahamutKaiser 说:

DE isn't offering less to its players, it's offering more overall

It's 400 SE 2hr Before patch and 48 SE 1hr After patch the difference is night and day. Dev letting player play 4 times more to get the same and people have no problem with this? If anything DE should a least refund the money for player's booster and reverse Khora nerf. Why should all players be punish because macro players and macro player get to keep all the reward?  How community give this a go and not the mod booster is baffling to me.

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On 2020-11-21 at 8:08 AM, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I'm calling ABSOLUTE BS on this. The exact same gameplay exists right now ie long survival missions with Steel Path enemies and yet people are losing their minds. Why? Because of the rewards being taken away that you say they don't care about. There are god knows how many other frames capable of hours and hours of endurance in Steel Path, some that take a little more skill and some that take even less. But that's not what this is about, don't kid yourself.

dont you think it is about time we get some meaningful rewards before the game dies ? i could go on about human psychoglogy that the way people experience things and/or see things is greatly linked with the reward system but i dont wanna sound like a person that wants only rewards from warframe or something im definately not that guy(if that guy exist) .

In my humble opinion endgame is not just reward scaling , it is a balance between great core gameplay with a little or some reward scaling sprinkles on it . 

I played and liked warframe for what it is the core gameplay , and if we were to go on that route , they hardly ever touch the core gameplay either(fixing/polishing,etc.)  .. like ever to be quite honest .

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13 minutes ago, killerJoke66 said:

dont you think it is about time we get some meaningful rewards before the game dies ? i could go on about human psychoglogy that the way people experience things and/or see things is greatly linked with the reward system but i dont wanna sound like a person that wants only rewards from warframe or something im definately not that guy(if that guy exist) .

In my humble opinion endgame is not just reward scaling , it is a balance between great core gameplay with a little or some reward scaling sprinkles on it . 

I played and liked warframe for what it is the core gameplay , and if we were to go on that route , they hardly ever touch the core gameplay either .. like ever to be quite honest .

Yeh I'd love it but that's the complaint I was replying to, I was simply calling BS on the fact the OP was just shying away from the fact that people are mad about losing their kuva farm for greedy riven trading and nothing else. For me personally the game lacks challenge, I'm well past caring at this point, I simply keep up with the latest updates, discover whatever interesting new combos I can from them and then go back to playing a better more enjoyable game. And this is from someone who used to play LONG missions, LONG farming sessions, competed in all every event, min maxed everything etc. DE just care about money these days.

However all that being said, unlike the majority of people complaining about losing an extremely lazy, almost afk kuva farm, I'd like to actually EARN those better rewards through better gameplay and HARD content.

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4 hours ago, BRZZAFK said:

It's 400 SE 2hr Before patch and 48 SE 1hr After patch the difference is night and day. Dev letting player play 4 times more to get the same and people have no problem with this? If anything DE should a least refund the money for player's booster and reverse Khora nerf. Why should all players be punish because macro players and macro player get to keep all the reward?  How community give this a go and not the mod booster is baffling to me.

Your math is broken, it doesn't factor in amount of players engaging the content and the amount of rewards claimed by the player base overall, not just maximum values for the select few participating in SE farm. 

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4 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

the game lacks challenge

People say this, but what do you expect? I don't remeber many games where challenge was anything but more health and/or damage for the enemies, and yes, steel path is the perfect example.  We all know it isn't challenging at all though. When was the last time DE did anything original? It will just be more of the same. In fact, the entirety of the video game industy mostly just recycles old BS cause it keeps being successful for some reason. Like most things, it is what it is.

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12 minutes ago, (PSN)Yggranya said:

People say this, but what do you expect? I don't remeber many games where challenge was anything but more health and/or damage for the enemies, and yes, steel path is the perfect example.  We all know it isn't challenging at all though. When was the last time DE did anything original? It will just be more of the same. In fact, the entirety of the video game industy mostly just recycles old BS cause it keeps being successful for some reason. Like most things, it is what it is.

And here you are on that spectrum as well expecting the game meet your personal desires instead of the general populace.   And here you are ignoring what this game is at its core.   Expecting a flower to be a pumpkin and complain when it isn't...is not exactly useful.    The "original" argument is trite.  I could argue that your argument isn't original either.

As with any game...once you see behind the curtain and understand how the mechanics work does the baseline joy of it wear off.   At that point it is up to the player to either acknowledge and accept that or move on.  With the advent of the internet there is a 3rd option of complain incessantly.  

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