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I'll say it time and time again. If you want to properly buff Chroma, start by making his second ability recastable. + Other Ideas


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Just start with this:

- Make his second ability recastable just like Vex Armor. 

- Put the element change mechanic from his 1 to his elemental ward. It makes absolute sense, even by the name that this mechanic should be on his second ability. The subsumed ability should obviously be less powerful on other warframes. Switch element by pressing the button, activate elemental ward by holding the ability down. 

  • Here are some ideas for Effigy:

- A slight increase to the radius.

- Based on the number of enemies around the Effigy, it will deal more damage

- OR make it scale with the enemy level up to a certain level. Strength should still effect the damage it deals.

- OR Make the Effigy use random elements every time it attacks. Toxin / Heat / Electricity / Cold. If this is not enough, it could also use elements such as Viral, Magnetic and whatever.

- OR make the Effigy change element type depending on enemy. Corrosive for Grineer, Magnetic for Corpus with shields then switches to Toxin after shields are gone. 

 The idea to switch element depending on enemy health and type is really neat IMO as you don't have to do it manually which is really nice since it requires some micro-management and some really don't like it, not mentioning you can screw up the elemental type you want your elemental ward to be effected by. Also the idea to just switch to random elements is also nice

  • Here's a few ideas for Vex Armor:

- You need to take damage to gain Vex Armor stacks which is honestly not the best idea... If you no shields at all or your shields are down 24/7 you have no chance of getting stacks from shields. When it comes to taking HP damage you can easily die in high level missions if you're not careful because you might've underestimated the damage enemies deal. You never know when a nukor grineer comes around the corner and decides to cut your career short... Now you're dead on the ground and need a revive or if you're in a solo mission you lose all vex armor stacks, elemental ward and energy...

- Have you ever tried using Chroma in normal missions with other people but can't because everyone is killing every enemy you see so you can't gain any stacks whatsoever? I'm getting Harrow vibes. I don't know about you but it's super fun just standing there for 1 min for 1 grineer to max out your vex armor just to lose it in some dumb way. 

- Why not change it from "damage received" to "damage dealt". Or even better.. Have them BOTH, you gain vex armor stacks from both, so you just don't sit there like a statue waiting for enemies to cap your vex armor. Vex Armor stacks geined from damage dealt should be reduced compared to when you're being hit just to balance it out a little. Meanwhile Mirage presses a button.

Note: I was gonna include "enemies killed" together with "damage dealt" but, in some situations you'll have trouble finding any and some bosses don't spawn any. I should also say that Vex armor should be KEPT when in Archwing, however it should not effect the archgun. Why? Mirage can press a button, Chroma has to farm for it.. Meanwhile you have your teammates killing everything or can't find any at all.

When it comes to Elemental ward:

- Some stats should be increased honestly and some alternative effects should be added.

  • Ugh, Spectral Scream...

- if u hold the ability it will imbue the weapon you have selected with the current elemental damage selected

- Increase the radius and cone 

- Straight out buff the damage, it's pathetic. In the devstream where they tried to showcase Spectral Scream, Rebecca struggled to kill a lvl 20 enemy with a maxed out Prime Chroma... Not mentioning it was also an infected enemy... one of the weakest ones...

- OR have it simillar to the effigy buff. it will switch element depending on enemy type and health + other buffs. 

  • Passive:

- Triple jump is nice but really niche, I don't have anything for his passive but i'm open to ideas. Something with elements. 

 

 

 

Note; I also came with an augment idea. You can have two elemental types on you but with 15-35% reduced effectiveness. 

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3 minutes ago, Quimoth said:

wait, does chroma need a buff?

Doesn't he?

-When was the last time you saw a Chroma in a normal match outside of Profit Taker ? And back in the day, Eidolons?

Why use Chroma when you can use Mirage? Why wait for stacks when you can press a button, and also have 4 copies of yourself shooting as well...

He has the same problem as Harrow, as he needs to fight with his teammates to get value of Vex Armor

His first ability is useless

Effigy is rarely used and god knows when I've seen someone use an Effigy build or a Chroma to begin with. Check youtube and look at the dates for Effigy builds for Chroma. 

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At first glance I didn't thought it was that big of a deal, until I watched Ashisogi's video on the new Chroma like half an hour ago, oh boy did they mess him up big time, also I apreciate that we can actually see his wings outside effigy but the new passive is kind of useless not gonna lie.

Edited by (PSN)xBellikx
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il y a 18 minutes, HamletEagle a dit :

-When was the last time you saw a Chroma in a normal match outside of Profit Taker ? And back in the day, Eidolons?. 

I think that's because most of Chroma users outside of the few missions you mentionned are solo players.
 

il y a 18 minutes, HamletEagle a dit :

Why use Chroma when you can use Mirage? Why wait for stacks when you can press a button, and also have 4 copies of yourself shooting as well...

Because the Vex Armor buff apply differently which allow for different stacking method, doesn't switch between damage and DR depending on light and have a much higher value, maybe ? Also, the Mirage clones don't get damage buff applied to Mirage, so it's useful for status but not that much for damage.
I'm not here to say Chroma is better than Mirage because it's not true, but if you're looking for a damage buff, he definitely is.
 

il y a 57 minutes, HamletEagle a dit :

Passive:
- Triple jump is nice but really niche, I don't have anything for his passive but i'm open to ideas. Something with elements. 

I'm the person who suggested this in Design Council and I'm happy it got in for a simple reason :
Chroma is already extremly powerful so, utility is the only thing he can get without being straight power creep, so having more in air control sounds like a great way to skilled reward players without directly increasing his damage output or survivability.

Overall, I agree Chroma need more than the few tweaks he got from the last update but he definitely don't need a buff, especially not an easier way to stack Vex Armor or a 2nd damage buff.

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1 hour ago, HamletEagle said:

Doesn't he?

-When was the last time you saw a Chroma in a normal match outside of Profit Taker ? And back in the day, Eidolons?

Why use Chroma when you can use Mirage? Why wait for stacks when you can press a button, and also have 4 copies of yourself shooting as well...

He has the same problem as Harrow, as he needs to fight with his teammates to get value of Vex Armor

His first ability is useless

Effigy is rarely used and god knows when I've seen someone use an Effigy build or a Chroma to begin with. Check youtube and look at the dates for Effigy builds for Chroma. 

Problem is not Chroma, problem are the players (like you) that think he is only good when he has his Vex Armor on and that keep complaining they cant charge it completely in normal missions where its not even that necessary and try using Profit Taker/Eidolons as a dumb excuse for him being in a bad state.

His first ability got buffed, if you want to apply status of a specific type to a group of mobs in front of you, his 1st is great for that, if you are expecting to bad breath down a whole room with it, problem is you again.

His Effigy is more of a Buffing skill than a Damage dealer, i see people use it often and i also see a lot of people use it on Profit Taker to get the additional credits from it, specially when the 2x Credit booster week/end is up. Again, you expecting it to bad breath a room to death?

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Spectral Scream would become much better if DE gave it a "rate of fire" stat scaling with power strength, along with status scaling. If you could get 300% status applicator that applies 30 heat procs in AoE per second, there'd be SOME reasons to use it. Right now though - its a free helminth slot and even a SENTINEL can do what it does better. Press S to spit on its "buffs".

Edited by Lone_Dude
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If only spectral scream was IMMENSELY faster for status application as they seem to be taking the direction towards, only then would be remotely feasible to use on actual play outside of vape memes. It is especially currently pointless since we have things akin to the kuva nukor being able to inflict status way better than spectral scream ever could.

Giving the breath an alternative role to be able to "clear rooms" beyond level 40 would actually give an incentive of moving beyond the standardized fat stack strength vex armour builds to more range and efficiency oriented builds, resulting in diversifying Chromas gameplay outside of being a damaging tanky lad. Are you people truly adverse to this?

Also why is the element swap not on elemental ward? 

Edited by ConsumerJTC
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@BiancaRoughfin

So where would you play Chroma then? He is not easy to play, you have to micro-manage, it's not easy to build, not many understand him or his abilities, you need powerful mods to get proper value, you need to test a lot in simulacrum, not paying attention to vex armor and letting it run out can cost you, your life and now you need to regain stacks again, You need good knowledge of the game and mechanics, many consider him a boring frame and the list goes on... Meanwhile Mesa and Saryn press 4 and Mirage presses 3 and 1.

Personally I think one of the biggest turn-offs about him is his ability to eat entire chunks of energy when he casts his abilities so mods like Primed Flow are mandatory on him (also arcane Energize) since you need to micro-manage and keep your abilities up 24/7, especially Vex armor since it also effects Effigy and Spectral Scream. You also need high STR

You clearly missed the part when I said that using him in pubs is quite bad.

You have to fight your teammates in pubs for vex armor. If you want to rely on vex armor in pubs for max damage you also need to get rid of mods like Serration that increase damage and put elemental mods. One problem tho, you can't get stack because that one Saryn / Mesa already killed the entitre room so what you got in the end is less damage for your weapons because you can't even get stacks to increase your damage over Serration or Hornet Strike percentages.

Vex armor is EXTREMELY important and needs to build up trought the mission but you can't in groups. It's essential if you want your effigy to deal more damage and the same goes for Spectral Scream. You obviously don't know much about Chroma. 

Elemetal Ward is decent at BEST. It's not the best, not the worst ability, however Wisp exists and her reservoirs make elemental ward obsolete. Did i mention you can have multiple reservoirs on you instead of one and you're allowed to refresh the duration? Meanwhile Chroma is stuck wiith a 50 second Heat Elemental Ward... The augment Everlasting Ward is ok when it comes to teamplay as you don't need range just duration and strength. Not mentioning when you're dealing with enemies, say level 30-40, the AOE damage from elemental ward like toxin, electricity, cold and heat will BARELY damage the target even with high strength. This ability feels kinda lackluster and could use another effect per element, at least to me.

Spectral Scream is good at applying status... that's it, ONE status.... Unless your teammate killed the enemy already and trying to use that ability to apply ONE status around high levels will get you killed cause you're stuck in playing the animation then trying to cancel it out. 

If it had the same damage as the effigy when that thing breaths fire or any other element then we'd be talking. However personally I'd want him be imbue his weapons depending on the elemental type selected. If you hold down the ability button he will keep breathing that element until your tap it again. 

Effigy is more like a Dummy than anything else IMO. It has some decent damage, CC and knockback and can defend a point or AFK farming. If you want damage you need high STR, if you want more damage then you need to keep your Vex armor up which also drains your energy, not mentioning elemental ward. I find mods like Equilibrium quite nice on Chroma.

DE needs to start fixing frames that are hurt by their teammates sole existence. Chroma has no trouble in SOLO play

 

 

Edited by HamletEagle
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4 hours ago, lukinu_u said:

but he definitely don't need a buff, especially not an easier way to stack Vex Armor or a 2nd damage buff.

Aren’t tweaks technically a buff? 

Out of the 6 Warframe changes Chroma got the crap end of the stick. Come on, just +200 damage increase? Enemies can go to thousands of health and armor easily. Weapon usage are restricted so if you want to use the ability you are losing a lot of DPS when this ability is active. 
 

I have 343% STR Umbral Chroma build. With maxed out Vex Armor, spectral scream still can’t kill level 100 grineer grunt in a reasonable time frame.
 

 

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il y a 27 minutes, DrivaMain a dit :

Aren’t tweaks technically a buff? 

Out of the 6 Warframe changes Chroma got the crap end of the stick. Come on, just +200 damage increase? Enemies can go to thousands of health and armor easily. Weapon usage are restricted so if you want to use the ability you are losing a lot of DPS when this ability is active. 
 

I have 343% STR Umbral Chroma build. With maxed out Vex Armor, spectral scream still can’t kill level 100 grineer grunt in a reasonable time frame.
 

Tweaks don't necessarily end up being a buff.
In most of case the goal of a character rework is to make it make more enjoyable to play and/or balance it with other content aviable.

If we take Chroma, he has 2 super strong passive abilities and 2 almost useless ones and he overall stronger than average. So the idea outcome would be a more balanced less passive kit, with an overall nerf to his Vex Armor.

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9 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

If we take Chroma, he has 2 super strong passive abilities and 2 almost useless ones and he overall stronger than average. So the idea outcome would be a more balanced less passive kit, with an overall nerf to his Vex Armor.

I don’t think touching Vex Armor is a good idea, knowing the massive backlash this will ensue, remember it already got “nerfed” before when Shrine of The Eidolon update arrived. They can easily rebalance spectral scream by increase the tick rate and let it’s damage scale or they could just replace this ability from a breath attack to a single burst of cone area elemental damage. Give us a reason to even cast the ability.

Effigy can just copy the spectral scream changes to be somewhat viable and let it roam freely like a specter.

Also the new passive seems a bit lackluster. Can we just make the second bullet jump to launch Chroma slightly farther to give the feeling he spreads his wings to do so.

Edited by DrivaMain
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Alright so here is why people might think chroma needs a buff:

  1. His 1 is (near) useless, honestly we can all name a dozen frames that fit this category, so not a strong argument.
  2. His 4 is (near) useless, this has mostly become an issue since the addition of the Index and other credit farming methods that do not rely on you killing a big number of enemies.
  3. There are frames which out dps/perform chroma, well guess what... he still out performs 90% of the frames out there just with a good vex armor build

PS. please do not use primed flow unless you are actually trying to make effigy do something. Rage will give you all the energy you need.

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2 hours ago, Quimoth said:

Alright so here is why people might think chroma needs a buff:

  1. His 1 is (near) useless, honestly we can all name a dozen frames that fit this category, so not a strong argument.
  2. His 4 is (near) useless, this has mostly become an issue since the addition of the Index and other credit farming methods that do not rely on you killing a big number of enemies.
  3. There are frames which out dps/perform chroma, well guess what... he still out performs 90% of the frames out there just with a good vex armor build

PS. please do not use primed flow unless you are actually trying to make effigy do something. Rage will give you all the energy you need.

Having 2 useless abilities does not warrant him a buff? His first ability is now only good for switching elements and it punishes you if you have duration as you can't refresh the duration or element. There's no point in casting Spectral Scream,

Elemental ward is decent at best and feels lackluster. I forgot the last time I used Electricity. Toxin is only good for reloading. Heat exists to give bonus hp while cold allows you tank more. As I said, lackluster. The AOE damage from electricity, heat, toxin and cold barely do anything. It's good for lvl 10 enemies.

Vex armor is the most important ability of his kit. Play Chroma in 10 pubs and see how it goes for you. See how it goes with people that know what they're doing. 

Also, please mention the frames Chroma outperforms, the 90% roster you mentioned. And mention what exactly he outperforms and in what scenarios, Cause personally I don't see Chroma outperforming much in a pub, not with today's frames.

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make each Elemental Ability be able to separately choose their Element on the fly *crosses arms*
it's less button presses in the longrun than having a single thing to choose with. since generally the Player is going to use different Elements for each of the 3 Abilities.

and yes, Elemental Ward may as well be recastable. there isn't a reason for it to not be.

17 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

His first ability got buffed, if you want to apply status of a specific type to a group of mobs in front of you, his 1st is great for that, if you are expecting to bad breath down a whole room with it, problem is you again.

and still objectively useless because it is in direct competition with your Weapons.

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Yeah, his 2 not being recastable is really annoying.. same with mirage's first ability.. ugh.  

And it's getting worse since it's a simple tweak that could even be hotfixed but noooo.. let the community wait for actual years to pass.. ugh!

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On 2020-11-23 at 11:27 AM, (PSN)mahoshonenfox said:

Remember when Vex Armor wasn't recastable? DE made it recastable. Why wouldn't they make E Ward be recastable? They just didn't think about it (or tested our Chroma) as much when they gave Chroma the elemental gear wheel.

I find it quite hard to believe, that DE didn't think of making his second ability recastable. I find it even more shocking they didn't make it yet. Perhaps they have a reason for it? Who knows, they don't communicate with us that much.

Having elements being switched by his 1st ability is so uncomfortable .... Feels like they haven't tested it all. It feels so much better having him switch elements from his second ability, it feels so comfortable since you're gonna be recasting elemental ward and vex armor constantly. I also find myself accidently activating spectral scream by mistake quite often, My muscle memory can't get used to it. I'd have no problems accidently recasting elemental ward since it's an actually useful ability, unlike spectral scream.

Forgot to mention in my previous comments that Elemental Ward, has a tendency... to go off at the worst times, hence the need to recast it. 

- You're fighting profit taker? You can't recast it ? Profit Taker is about to do a massive amount of damage and you know it's coming but can't rescast to save your life? Truly a shame... dodge it or die. 

I also thought of a passive for Chroma. Ontop of his triple jump, he's immune to knockback and stuns while in mid air, I would also make him bullet jump further. Although, these seem like the buffs Zephyr needs. Just to make him feel more like a dragon. This or something with elements, but can't think of anything to also effects his 4 elements. 

Edited by HamletEagle
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