Whipclaw line of sight checks report false negatives in level geometry

[Berzerkules]

It took me less than 2 minutes in a random mission to figure out that whatever you did to Khora in the latest update completely broke her. I can aim directly at an enemy stuck in Strangledome and do zero damage until Strangledome's duration expires. 

 

Khora

• There is now a minimal Line of Sight check on Whipclaw’s radial damage. 

 

 

 

[Hobie-wan]

So the dome is on the other side of the wall. Seems the game is considering that enemies position as being over there on the other side since that's where the dome wants to pull them. If you want to get right down to it, that makes no sense that the dome grabs people through walls.

[MrSigy]

A simple LoS check they said.

[jesusdh]

"It's all mostly focused on buffing stuff, it's not nerfing stuff." - [DE]Scott, Home Devstream #8.

[Berzerkules]

Here is another example. 

[MrSigy]

I believe this is already reported in 

Yes, it completely ruins khora.

[PublikDomain]

22 minutes ago, MrSigy said:

I believe this is already reported in 

I believe this is actually a separate issue. I think this one specifically is that ragdolled enemies aren't reporting LoS correctly. It could be confirmed by maybe doing a ground slam to ragdoll and then trying to use Whipclaw.

[Berzerkules]

4 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

I believe this is actually a separate issue. I think this one specifically is that ragdolled enemies aren't reporting LoS correctly. It could be confirmed by maybe doing a ground slam to ragdoll and then trying to use Whipclaw.

You're correct, they are different examples of situations where whipclaws LOS detection is failing. I can consistently cast Strangledome on one side of a wall and any enemies pulled up against the wall from the other side are unhittable with whipclaw until dome duration expires. I've pretty much just been getting footage of examples of that because it is a situation that is easy to recreate. 

Like this. I cast dome in a small room and enemies on the other side of the wall in the hallway can't be hit by whip until dome duration expires. I recast dome in the hallway and I can hit those enemies but not the enemy in the small room on the other side of the wall. 

 

[Berzerkules]

Deimos: Arcana: Hotfix 29.5.3 Dropped and Khora is still broke

 

[PublikDomain]

See: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1236913-whipclaw-line-of-sight-checks-report-false-negatives-in-level-geometry/?do=findComment&comment=11942544

[Berzerkules]

 Deimos: Arcana: Hotfix 29.5.4 Dropped and Khora is still broke. 

 

[Sickle_Slayer]

Maybe if they gave the AOE a 0.2m Punchthrough it would fix a TON of the issues with small clutter getting in the way?

But yeah... as it stands right now, the ability has to be cast so much more to ensure that enemies right in front of your face actually die.

[PublikDomain]

See: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1236913-whipclaw-line-of-sight-checks-report-false-negatives-in-level-geometry/?do=findComment&comment=11942544

 

[Gendalph]

I don't have the time to make gifs and add more explanations, but this should work well enough: https://imgur.com/a/UfOb89a

It doesn't include Corpus Ship tileset, which is also extremely annoying in this regard.

[Squeegee79]

Assuming this will take 4 months to fix?

[BulletmanSRB]

Same happens to Marked for Death the LoS is a joke and its been like that since the original Helminth nerf, Highly doubt they will even look into this.

[KamishirasawaKeine]

I'm genuinely disappointed by the fact that DE is still trying to solve problems with this broken system. Remember the time when they added LoS check for Trinity's EV? It was so ridiculous that you can cast EV on something - which requires you to see them to begin with, and not receiving the energy because the LoS check somehow failed. Turns out little has changed over the years.

[iStarTAC]

Better yet, they had a beta weekend to test this change ... and nothing ...

[gordianknot]

Its not just enough to nerf Augment and  and to decrease efficiency of Whip with something as "line of sight" .
 To work "as intended" seems that mechanic (which was working AS it should) need to be BROKEN to the point where logic is disposed.
Players, specially long -time active aren't that stupid NOT to see that something is wrongly implemented.
Is Khora best DPS frame- NO.
Is Khora gamebreaking frame- NO.
Is playing Khora complicated to play- NO
Is playing Khora fun-YES.

Then why nerfing her when so many people like/enjoy playing her?

I'm not a fanboy of ANY particular frame, I enjoy playing of 95% of all frames and i'm trying to play all of them , but depending of a mission I pick best frame or, closest to best for the  type of a mission i'll be playing.
 But Khora is type of frame great for most of missions-from Excavation, Mobile defense, Extermination, Interception, Defense and even Survival. Its because her toolkit/abilities  -which Developers /Frame creators made her way she is- is best suited for most of mission types. 
So  people who like to play her are "guilty" for picking her in order to finish mission in most efficient way? 

 That kind of things just make players feel cheated and to loose even more interest in game overall. 

Also- when  Banshee was nefed- it  supposed to just change her augment for 4th ability - not to nerf her AGAIN- just day after changing augment - to change base function of Banshee- to make her ENERGY hungry/demanding. It's not enough even if she had 300 efficiency -to use her 4th a little more often.

I remember when her Augment was supposed  only to be changed, but after change even with  Natural Talent and  Zenurik giving me energy in background  I needed 20- seconds of constant pressing 4 to spend energy. Seems that devs didn't even test her at all or not enough.. just to see other day REAL nerf with only a few times of using her 4th ability even with high efficiency I'm out of energy in a few seconds. 
I understand that people hated when player in Hydron defense started to use her 4 with an augment - no one could do a thing- which was same with "old" Saryn.
But nerfing something to the point where frame work almost as broken- without compensating with something other in order to keep BALANCE- players playing her feel "weak", not needed and neglected (compared to other frames)
Now she is only good only with augment for her second ability and only in survival missions with higher lvl enemy ( do I need to mention that she is one of squishiest frame) and her survivability  depends on other players to revive her constantly.

Thats why I rarely see that ANYONE play her, because nerfing frame to the point  where she is just EXP tool for increasing mastery rank-without compensating nerf with some other thing which would make her more engaging and fun to play. 

Btw i suggest that all nerfing is reversed- just keep her augment nerfed, and remove LoS thing.

Its double nerf- like with a Banshee -thats why I mentioned Banshee as example how to kill a frame. 

 

 

[PublikDomain]

This remains unfixed in U29.5.7, after 7 hotfixes over nearly 3 weeks.

[Orakan]

hope they will fix the khora after they broke it completely

[Sickle_Slayer]

On 2020-11-26 at 1:12 PM, BulletmanSRB said:

Same happens to Marked for Death the LoS is a joke and its been like that since the original Helminth nerf, Highly doubt they will even look into this.

Last I checked, Garuda's 1 also has a really weird LoS too. You have to have more than half of your body visible to the target in order for it to actually let you cast it.

 

Probably because the LoS is measuring from the middle of the warframe. But it just makes for such awkward scenerios where you can clearly see your target, but nothing happens when you cast the ability.

 

A little hill will block you from charging targets just because your feet are a tad covered

[BulletmanSRB]

It just stops making you play those frames, since they added a generic wonky LoS to things now like khora's whip, garuda's first ability etc etc I cant even touch or play those frames, its very irritating to just spam an ability just for it to glitch out ever so often, like hit the person infront of you. 

ever since the wonky LoS that dropped in mid of 2019 continuing on from now into 2021+ for me anyways i am just ignoring the frames that use it, it just makes the game not fun at all with the little time to play games while at home.  Cant wait to see Lavos and his 4th ability having LoS oh boy! 9/10 hits 

 

Not like the game has much fun anymore, all we get these days are content drops with brave envisioned ideas poorly executed 

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, BulletmanSRB said:

It just stops making you play those frames, since they added a generic wonky LoS to things now like khora's whip, garuda's first ability etc etc I cant even touch or play those frames, its very irritating to just spam an ability just for it to glitch out ever so often, like hit the person infront of you.

There's not much that can keep me away from Khora, but the LoS is sure trying its damnedest. She's no less powerful than before, just a lot less enjoyable. It's frustrating.

[PublikDomain]

I'm finally able to confirm this bug, though I wasn't recording at the time. I was on an Arbitration Defense on the Ceres defense tileset, and a Grineer was below the center level being pulled upwards into a strangledome placed above it. Direct hits to the enemy (crosshair covering the enemy's body) resulted in no damage because of blocked LoS, despite the enemy being completely visible to me. I feel like it has to do with the target of the LoS check (probably the center of the target's body/capsule/whatever) being inaccurate when a target is ragdolled. Being pulled into a wall or ceiling probably causes that point to be pulled into the wall, making it always blocked and unable to be hit by Whipclaw.

This is the second of the two bugs related to Whipclaw's new LoS that show just why the LoS is such a poorly thought-out change. It is broken and only harms legitimate users of the frame. The people using her to sewer camp in Steel Path A) no longer have a reason to sewer camp in Steel Path and B) would have just gone to a different frame like Baruuk. Or, started using other things like a Limbo to plant an invincible Khora out in the open where there's no worry about LoS blocking things. It does nothing but make the frame buggy and frustrating to play.

The LoS continues to be a giant thorn in Khora's side and needs to be reverted or replaced.