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Octavia's mallet vs Necramech


AdriXL

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Hi guys, I write this in here because I got no answers in bug section lol

As many of you may know, Octavia's mallet makes 0 damage to Necramech but sometimes, according to some conditions, mallet can damage it.

Conditions are, as far as I know, both arms broken and granades launched by necramech are absorbed by mallet therefore, damage is actually reflected.

Question is... Update notes don't mention anything of this about octavia... Is it a bug or is this intended??

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Yeah but there are other frames with abilities that make damage the mech... Such as protea for instance with her cannons, right? Octavia does not have direct damage skills... the way I see it is... If octavia's mallet does not make any damage to mech, no other frame's skill should.

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"Enemy Voidrig & Bonewidow Necramechs now have the ‘Lich’ treatment with vulnerability to Status Effects, meaning you can now apply Status Effects to Necramechs! Additionally, certain damage immunities and diminishing returns for Warframe abilities have been added to balance this out. "

I think this is "it" in the patch notes. For Mallet this seems to translate into Necramech Mausolon damage not being reflected anymore, but the damage from the mines still is. At least, that is how it seemed to me (after 29.5.1) when I tried to figure out how to get the new vault missions started. Though I think only one Necramech managed to kill itself by reflecting damage from Mallet, had to kill all the other Necramechs "manually".

Mallet was still useful as a decoy, since when the Necramech attacks it it turns towards it, allowing you to shoot it in the back.

Haven't tried after the 29.5.2 patch, I gave up on vault bounties before that one dropped.   

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2 hours ago, AdriXL said:

Yeah but there are other frames with abilities that make damage the mech... Such as protea for instance with her cannons, right? Octavia does not have direct damage skills... the way I see it is... If octavia's mallet does not make any damage to mech, no other frame's skill should.

From what I've heard, enemy necramechs do in fact get damaged from the mallet.

Its actually the enemy mouselon not adding damage to the mallet itself, so it never dealt damage to begin with.

Perhaps try to get a stray infested hit the mallet, then press 4 to get the mallet into necramech range?

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20 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

For Mallet this seems to translate into Necramech Mausolon damage not being reflected anymore, but the damage from the mines still is.

Wait, the Mausolon added significant damage? When I was running with Octavia a while back my focus was to get it to spray its mines onto it. Many frames would get 1-shot by these mines so they definitely had massive damage potential. 

The missions would run as follows: Use 3 to go invisible. Chuck down 1 and 4. Nechramech fires at 1 reflecting some of the damage. Nechramech uses its mines. Nechramech is now dead.

I've yet to try Octavia since the update, but if what you have written is true the  Octavia should be unaffected. 

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Sounds like a reasonable change since it is still a great ability because it keep the mech occupied so it doesnt turn around constantly, so leaves you with good options to shoot the arms off.

It is good that DE starts to balance all the mindless skills that effectively trivialize something.

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16 minutes ago, kwlingo said:

Why do so many players favor the AFK macro tactics? No wonder why Khora got the nerf.

It's more a case of using the best tool for the job.

Would you hammer nails into a piece of wood with a pair of scissors simply because it's more of a challenge?

People use Octavia, Khora, Wukong, Mesa, Saryn (or any other frame you care to mention) because it's the most efficient use of time. Why spend 15 minutes doing something when you can get it done in 5 in a game whose reward system seems to be based around completing missions as quickly as possible?

Macro users should be punished, I agree with that, but this isn't the way to do it because it punishes innocent players.

Not that Digital Extremes has ever cared the slightest about that before.

 

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12 minutes ago, Fl_3 said:

People use Octavia, Khora, Wukong, Mesa, Saryn (or any other frame you care to mention) because it's the most efficient use of time.

And this is why DE is probably going to be balancing these frames in the near future because of their broken play styles. Nothing wrong with efficiency but its how its done. If there is no care for strategy or just random spamming or mouse twirling or enemies dying without sight or interaction, any game would call this broken mechanic. But for some odd reason Warframe players justify this with efficiency over balanced mechanic.

And yes Macro users "Need" to be punished.

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2 часа назад, PhiThagRaid сказал:

Wait, the Mausolon added significant damage? When I was running with Octavia a while back my focus was to get it to spray its mines onto it. Many frames would get 1-shot by these mines so they definitely had massive damage potential. 

The missions would run as follows: Use 3 to go invisible. Chuck down 1 and 4. Nechramech fires at 1 reflecting some of the damage. Nechramech uses its mines. Nechramech is now dead.

I've yet to try Octavia since the update, but if what you have written is true the  Octavia should be unaffected. 

Let's put it this way - it was non-trivial damage. Considering absolutely braindead AI of mechs, they often killed themselves purely with mausalon, without ever launching grenades.

Doesn't boned widow appear in vaults too now? Does she even have reflectable damage in her kit?

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I think the most broken thing about all this are players who are asking, "what do I do now?"

The simple answer is, "You need to play the game now."

And most are angered because they are not able to Macro or AFK or spam without actual enemy engagement, are finding this not acceptable in playing Warframe. They don't want to play the game without these brain dead mechanics. 

One of the biggest reason is because DE has allowed this to go on for way too long for it to be an acceptable behavior of gaming.

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3 minutes ago, Serafim_94 said:

Doesn't boned widow appear in vaults too now? Does she even have reflectable damage in her kit?

Yeah, she does, I didn't see any reflectable damage, but she is also much easier to hit in the weakpoints. Voidrig could get frustrating due to the shield, small weakspot and fast turning, but it seemed like Bonewidow mainly used her cc ability and getting to her rear is not as difficult. I ran a Wisp and it was a quick takedown comparatively.

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10 minutes ago, kwlingo said:

And this is why DE is probably going to be balancing these frames in the near future because of their broken play styles. Nothing wrong with efficiency but its how its done. If there is no care for strategy or just random spamming or mouse twirling or enemies dying without sight or interaction, any game would call this broken mechanic. But for some odd reason Warframe players justify this with efficiency over balanced mechanic.

And yes Macro users "Need" to be punished.

What your describing is the game that Warframe has always been. It's "Space Ninjas", It's somersaulting into a room full of bad guys spraying lasers in all directions, it's about speed, it's about sliding along a corridor twirling your blade around your head leaving a wake of destruction behind you.

This is Warframe, this is what Warframe does best. Warframe is a power fantasy gone mad, and it's been like this for 7 years.

If Digital Extremes changes how Warframe plays it stops being Warframe.

If you want more thought, more strategy in your game, then I'd suggest giving Destiny 2 a try.

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1 minute ago, Fl_3 said:

What your describing is the game that Warframe has always been. It's "Space Ninjas", It's somersaulting into a room full of bad guys spraying lasers in all directions, it's about speed, it's about sliding along a corridor twirling your blade around your head leaving a wake of destruction behind you.

This is Warframe, this is what Warframe does best. Warframe is a power fantasy gone mad, and it's been like this for 7 years.

If Digital Extremes changes how Warframe plays it stops being Warframe.

If you want more thought, more strategy in your game, then I'd suggest giving Destiny 2 a try.

Yes and there is nothing wrong with this but when your clearing maps with a tap of a button or random spamming without the effort of even trying to aim and still killing 15-20m of enemies. How is that even a justifiable mechanic even for Warframe.

And if you're not aware this are the mechanic's DE have been re-balancing in the last 7years.

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11 минут назад, kwlingo сказал:

Yes and there is nothing wrong with this but when your clearing maps with a tap of a button or random spamming without the effort of even trying to aim and still killing 15-20m of enemies. How is that even a justifiable mechanic even for Warframe.

And if you're not aware this are the mechanic's DE have been re-balancing in the last 7years.

There's a lot of broken S#&$ in WF. Both in terms of damage and just turning any gameplay off. Does Mesa need to aim? Technically, I guess. Does Limbo take skill?

Octavia mech nerf had it coming, to be honest. Not because it was powerful, but because it was clearly unintended. Still a shame though.

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10 minutes ago, kwlingo said:

Yes and there is nothing wrong with this but when your clearing maps with a tap of a button or random spamming without the effort of even trying to aim and still killing 15-20m of enemies. How is that even a justifiable mechanic even for Warframe.

And if you're not aware this are the mechanic's DE have been re-balancing in the last 7years.

Then why hasn't the game changed in those past 7 years? Why is it still a broken power fantasy after all this time and fixes?

Is Digital Extremes really that incompetent at managing their own game?

Or, is Warframe supposed to be like this because that's how they're still designing it to be?

I know what my decision is on that, and much power to them for giving the players the game they want to play.

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1 hour ago, Serafim_94 said:

Octavia mech nerf had it coming, to be honest. Not because it was powerful, but because it was clearly unintended. Still a shame though.

Octavia was a good way to solo the triple vault, considering all the phases. She was in no way "the best warframe for vaults", and with a team she wasn't even a good choice. Nekros + "speed up Loid" + killer support was the way to go.

But all the problems with random squads added up to a lot of players going solo, and once you had done the triple "a lot" and was only farming for the off-chance of a (new) Necramech mod drop Octavia was a comfortable way to solo the vaults. So comfortable I am pretty sure it showed up clearly in the stats.

I think it is both logical and sad that Octavia "vs Necramechs" has been a bit nerfed. Logical because she made it easy to solo, sad because the nerf hits solo players, and solo is even more a thing now that the new vaults have made PUBs even worse.

Btw, I didn't use Octavia for Necramechs, but for making the cooking, toxic and "defend Loid" phases more bearable, and Octavia still shines in that regard (when soloing).

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Octavia still hasn't seen a fix for the bug where if you pick up the mallet with the resonator, enemies shoot the resonator, making it impossible for the mallet to be charged with damage with anything that doesnt do AoE. I highly doubt they will "fix" the reflection of the mines either.

While I understand the nerf, it's still somewhat sad as most people don't play octavia because they don't enjoy her playstyle. This lead to her being actually useful and desired in ONE paticular mission. We still haven't seen nerfs to chroma as it can do profit taker extremely well, nor have we seen volt nerfs for volt being too good at eidolon hunts.

In addition to that there is a mention of "added damage resistances" in that update note. Damage resistances should never be outright damage immunities, which does seem to be the case here.

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2 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

Then why hasn't the game changed in those past 7 years? Why is it still a broken power fantasy after all this time and fixes?

Is Digital Extremes really that incompetent at managing their own game?

Or, is Warframe supposed to be like this because that's how they're still designing it to be?

I know what my decision is on that, and much power to them for giving the players the game they want to play.

The idea that Warframe the easy game is the 'game players want to play' is shakey at best.

Steve ran a survey back at the end of 2019, and a majority cited difficult content and gear balance as major issues - 9.7% of participants judged it the single biggest factor for negative impact on the experience.

Spoiler

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The 9.8% slice is update pace, not 'too much difficulty'. Trust me, I've made this mistake too. 'Too much' difficulty is the smallest slice, although granted Grind is definitely the top dog.

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And I've already heard the 'it wasn't a big enough sample'. There were. The survey had 28,000-ish participants, and not only is there advice to say that more than 1,000 participants won't dramatically increase the accuracy (1,000 has a margin of error of 1%), some calculators I ran suggested that survey of just 400-odd people would be enough to get a fairly accurate result. Steve got seventy times that. So whilst it's probably still like, a 1% margin error... that does seem to indicate that these survey results are proportional.

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