Is the game an unenjoyable mess of stats and open world grinds for the foreseeable future?

[Tellakey]

Hello, I came back from a year-long break from Warframe.

I love the universe, lore and fashionframe, but quiet due to the poor cycle of power creep and uncalculated spammy gameplay. Yesterday I gave it a whirl to see if time is indeed the best healer. It was not. After an hour of gameplay and marveling at all the new features (also Railjack is dead, who'd have seen it coming?) I alt+F4-ed from sheer boredom. 

My love-hate relationship is killing me. DE are such a loveable bunch and their universe keeps me hooked but I just can't with their recent choices. Like, literally, ANOTHER open world gated behind daily grind? Didn't DE Steve, on one stream, profess an aversion to Warframe following the "open world of the year" formula?

Forgive my rambling. I just need to know, based on the latest devstreams - is there any plan to deviate, innovate and break new grounds, or is Warframe locked ad infinitum in a perpetual cycle of repackaged content and new coats of paint?

[Rebore]

seems like it...

Entire game revised when?

[Tellakey]

1 minute ago, Rebore said:

Entire game revised when?

Dunno if you're joking about that revision, but I honestly think the only redemption Warframe has in store lies in revision of at least the basic principles of combat - less enemies, more oomph, emphasis on strategy, and the like. 

[Rebore]

2 minutes ago, Tellakey said:

Dunno if you're joking about that revision, but I honestly think the only redemption Warframe has in store lies in revision of at least the basic principles of combat - less enemies, more oomph, emphasis on strategy, and the like. 

Think they need to go back and revise/update the things that are already in the bloody game rather than add something new to be left behind like the rest of the game. Everything now is just stale old content. They don't really add anything to the game other than more annoying grind and I'm the type to like grind but if it is the only thing they have on their charts then well S#&$ idk what to say lol. 

[trst]

If your concerns are just in regards to the powercreep issues then you're best off getting over them. The casual majority and crymoaners have made sure that any effort to correct that gets shot down or nerfed to their levels anyways.

Though you might find something worthwhile in Steel Path. It's still able to be trivialized all the same but it at least justifies better gear than the entire rest of the game.

Also Deimos was inevitable since PoE was for Grineer and Fortuna for Corpus and it would have been a bigger issue to dismiss Infested entirely. Plus there is still going to be a fourth open world with Duviri presumably for an Orokin-like faction. Aaaaand if we're going to acknowledge the trend then we can expect a fifth Sentient open world somewhere down the line unless that gets bundled with Duviri.

[Tellakey]

3 minutes ago, trst said:

If your concerns are just in regards to the powercreep issues then you're best off getting over them. The casual majority and crymoaners have made sure that any effort to correct that gets shot down or nerfed to their levels anyways.

Though you might find something worthwhile in Steel Path. It's still able to be trivialized all the same but it at least justifies better gear than the entire rest of the game.

Also Deimos was inevitable since PoE was for Grineer and Fortuna for Corpus and it would have been a bigger issue to dismiss Infested entirely. Plus there is still going to be a fourth open world with Duviri presumably for an Orokin-like faction. Aaaaand if we're going to acknowledge the trend then we can expect a fifth Sentient open world somewhere down the line unless that gets bundled with Duviri.

I am become sorrow.... :(

[Loza03]

9 minutes ago, Tellakey said:

Dunno if you're joking about that revision, but I honestly think the only redemption Warframe has in store lies in revision of at least the basic principles of combat - less enemies, more oomph, emphasis on strategy, and the like. 

For my money it's taking a look at what things should be managed by a player's build, and what by their actions. Right now, 90% of a player's performance is decided in the Arsenal, which heavily disincentivises action in this Action RPG. I reckon resource management would be the most impactful change.

Players having a lot of energy, health and ammo to work with would be a lot more interesting if you had to restore them through good gameplay, rather than activating some doodad. Outriders has the right idea, is what I'm saying (that game puts a lot of emphasis in its marketing on how each class has their own healing mechanics that incentivises active play rather than retreat. And whilst we're well past that kind of in-depth healing system, the base principle is pretty sound (DOOM headlines a similar philosophy).

[Hypernaut1]

I guess this is crap on DE week. Did I miss something? What's with the sudden influx of "DE sux" post?

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

Well  it will be  the same old s%@t for awhile,  we are getting more liches,  which was one of the worst grinds ever made in the history of video games. .  More dead railjack and another,  copy and paste open world. .  Which will have something cool for only the long-term players, then changed to make it more noob friendy. 

So yeah   take another year off I'd say. 

[Tellakey]

1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I guess this is crap on DE week. Did I miss something? What's with the sudden influx of "DE sux" post?

Hey, don't look at me, I just got here! XD

 

Just now, (PSN)SolarPhantom82 said:

So yeah   take another year off I'd say. 

Mighty tempting, that. 

[vanaukas]

6 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I guess this is crap on DE week. Did I miss something? What's with the system influx of "DE sux" post?

Khora and SE nerfs, some are good and well explained complains, most of them a sea of salt because "muh riven"

[Voltage]

10 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I guess this is crap on DE week. Did I miss something? What's with the sudden influx of "DE sux" post?

It's been a spiraling trend since The Old Blood in late 2019. Most of the problems in my opinion come from the fact that any feedback taken into account is already taken too late as potentially bad design decisions are already in motion or released. Dev Workshops are rarely ever about ideas and working on taking feedback and more of "we are about to launch this, it's almost done, what do you think?". This creates a problem where if an idea is very bad (Riven Disposition, these new Arcanes, necramechs, etc.), it is already heavily invested into before being disliked by the playerbase. Deimos Arcana was at the finish line during the test cluster, and it flopped in several areas, even more so when the update launched a week later with many problems existing through the test cluster and the global release. 

[Tesseract7777]

1 hour ago, Tellakey said:

Hello, I came back from a year-long break from Warframe.

I love the universe, lore and fashionframe, but quiet due to the poor cycle of power creep and uncalculated spammy gameplay. Yesterday I gave it a whirl to see if time is indeed the best healer. It was not. After an hour of gameplay and marveling at all the new features (also Railjack is dead, who'd have seen it coming?) I alt+F4-ed from sheer boredom. 

My love-hate relationship is killing me. DE are such a loveable bunch and their universe keeps me hooked but I just can't with their recent choices. Like, literally, ANOTHER open world gated behind daily grind? Didn't DE Steve, on one stream, profess an aversion to Warframe following the "open world of the year" formula?

Forgive my rambling. I just need to know, based on the latest devstreams - is there any plan to deviate, innovate and break new grounds, or is Warframe locked ad infinitum in a perpetual cycle of repackaged content and new coats of paint?

Necramechs are pretty much the definition of this imo, and they were a step in the wrong direction.

They are a huge time sink for players with everything, who have nothing to do, but I fail to see any real place for them in the game, or any real need. 

Warframe's biggest problem imo has been that it lives and dies by new content release, and I don't see this changing, at least not in any big way, anytime soon. Polishing content always takes a backseat. Making content that is actually needed, that is actually what players were asking for, takes a backseat to shiny, repackaged content like the necramechs that gives a timesink for veterans to sink their teeth into, but provides no real new value to the gameplay and provides no real dimension to the core game. A necramech is a reskinned warframe but slower and stompier, but with an absolutely horrific grind to get the mods and get a decently forma'd setup. And I mean horrific, with the glitches on lost xp that still haven't been fixed, even a lot of more hardcore players I know don't feel like going through it right now. 

Same with rivens, probably good for their pocketback, but actually detrimental to the meta of the game. But they needed to keep releasing things, and especially, keep releasing money makers. I don't mean to be overly cynical, but despite an incredible amount of pleas, DE has firmly continued to make most Necramech mods hella rare even though their is no real point to them when, ya know, WARFRAMES exist and are literally more advanced versions of necramechs even in universe. 

[(PSN)Yggranya]

1 hour ago, trst said:

If your concerns are just in regards to the powercreep issues then you're best off getting over them. The casual majority and crymoaners have made sure that any effort to correct that gets shot down or nerfed to their levels anyways

Yeah, the "casuals" want to do a survival where they stay in a corner/corridor spamming abilities for hours for the sweet loot. Funny how none of those "casuals" flaunt those kinds of things. All whining i have seen is mostly how the "casuals" are, once again, ruining this or that game/game mode. *sigh*

Personally getting less grind would be good, but i'll take anything over more terrible open world crap, except more railjack(off).

[Tellakey]

37 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

Necramechs are pretty much the definition of this imo, and they were a step in the wrong direction.

They are a huge time sink for players with everything, who have nothing to do, but I fail to see any real place for them in the game, or any real need. 

Warframe's biggest problem imo has been that it lives and dies by new content release, and I don't see this changing, at least not in any big way, anytime soon. Polishing content always takes a backseat. Making content that is actually needed, that is actually what players were asking for, takes a backseat to shiny, repackaged content like the necramechs that gives a timesink for veterans to sink their teeth into, but provides no real new value to the gameplay and provides no real dimension to the core game. A necramech is a reskinned warframe but slower and stompier, but with an absolutely horrific grind to get the mods and get a decently forma'd setup. And I mean horrific, with the glitches on lost xp that still haven't been fixed, even a lot of more hardcore players I know don't feel like going through it right now. 

Same with rivens, probably good for their pocketback, but actually detrimental to the meta of the game. But they needed to keep releasing things, and especially, keep releasing money makers. I don't mean to be overly cynical, but despite an incredible amount of pleas, DE has firmly continued to make most Necramech mods hella rare even though their is no real point to them when, ya know, WARFRAMES exist and are literally more advanced versions of necramechs even in universe. 

Okay okay, I get it, I'm uninstalling, sheesh! XD

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

If warframe had no open worlds, people would just say "Is the game an unenjoyable mess of relic captures and endless survivals for the foreseeable future?"

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

4 hours ago, Tellakey said:

Hello, I came back from a year-long break from Warframe.

I love the universe, lore and fashionframe, but quiet due to the poor cycle of power creep and uncalculated spammy gameplay. Yesterday I gave it a whirl to see if time is indeed the best healer. It was not. After an hour of gameplay and marveling at all the new features (also Railjack is dead, who'd have seen it coming?) I alt+F4-ed from sheer boredom. 

My love-hate relationship is killing me. DE are such a loveable bunch and their universe keeps me hooked but I just can't with their recent choices. Like, literally, ANOTHER open world gated behind daily grind? Didn't DE Steve, on one stream, profess an aversion to Warframe following the "open world of the year" formula?

Forgive my rambling. I just need to know, based on the latest devstreams - is there any plan to deviate, innovate and break new grounds, or is Warframe locked ad infinitum in a perpetual cycle of repackaged content and new coats of paint?

Duviri Paradox is the next open world
 

.........................................

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

4 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I guess this is crap on DE week. Did I miss something? What's with the sudden influx of "DE sux" post?

 

4 hours ago, Voltage said:

It's been a spiraling trend since The Old Blood in late 2019. Most of the problems in my opinion come from the fact that any feedback taken into account is already taken too late as potentially bad design decisions are already in motion or released. Dev Workshops are rarely ever about ideas and working on taking feedback and more of "we are about to launch this, it's almost done, what do you think?". This creates a problem where if an idea is very bad (Riven Disposition, these new Arcanes, necramechs, etc.), it is already heavily invested into before being disliked by the playerbase. Deimos Arcana was at the finish line during the test cluster, and it flopped in several areas, even more so when the update launched a week later with many problems existing through the test cluster and the global release. 

DE did it themselves. Yes, I know the game is free to play and the following examples are not free to play. At the same time, it was bound to happen. The fanbase just got tired of DE's crap and the crap hit the fan and spread everywhere when Empyrean was released. 

Example 1: Fallout 76...or when players got sick of Bethesda's crap. 
Example 2: Warcraft 3 Reforged...or when players got sick of Blizzard's crap.
Example 3: Anthem/Mass Effect Andromeda....or when  players got sick of Bioware's crap. 
Example 4: Empyrean....or when players got sick of Digital Extreme's crap. 

Players got sick of crap. 

Hopefully people understand what I mean and I don't have to post videos and take up a bunch of space on this thread. :) 

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

19 hours ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Example 4: Empyrean....or when players got sick of Digital Extreme's crap. 

100% agree with this.  2019 the year of the road map.   New war Christmas release and Railjack .Oh the Demo looked so GOOD. Some would say too good to be true, and it was.     Then they started releasing the update in parts, dry dock, take flight, and phase 3 which never got released.   we knew we were in trouble...  beside the update kicking them out of streams top 10 never to return.  This was the breaking point for a lot of player,     DE had used up all their grace and players stopped been so understanding. And the community hasn’t been the same since.

[DoomFruit]

6 hours ago, Tellakey said:

Dunno if you're joking about that revision, but I honestly think the only redemption Warframe has in store lies in revision of at least the basic principles of combat - less enemies, more oomph, emphasis on strategy, and the like. 

Incidentally, this is exactly what the game was like on release, back in 2013. I miss original Warframe.

[Atekron]

it's not only railjack, it's also their attitude, I do think that realise of PoE witch was rather successful made them too arrogant, they enjoyed good press and influx of many new players, they was "king of the hill", and they stop caring

[Voltage]

5 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

If warframe had no open worlds, people would just say "Is the game an unenjoyable mess of relic captures and endless survivals for the foreseeable future?"

It's almost like the core gameplay loop needs to be worked on. Fissures were a short sighted "fix" for the Void, and the way DE tackles endless leaves most players bored and feeling unrewarded quickly.

[Prexades]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Voltage:

It's almost like the core gameplay loop needs to be worked on. Fissures were a short sighted "fix" for the Void, and the way DE tackles endless leaves most players bored and feeling unrewarded quickly.

I really don't care about endless survival missions and I don't see a point in working on them.

My issue are the storyline missions being in some kind of purgatory since The Sacrifice quest. Railjack was a fun addition but is still terribly incomplete with only one enemy faction with only one fighter type and one crewship type. No command intrinsic,  no Corpus faction. Connected squads was a sad joke in an event that hardly had any RJ content. Abilities poorly balanced with the RJ now just nuking everything around them.

[Kaotyke]

@Tellakey and so, the thread gets derailed.

You have been here long enough to know that you do NOT ask this type of question in this Dead Sea. You only get salt in return and calls forth the horses, deers, cows and all manner of animals that come here for it and have the habit of kicking others to defend or attack.

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, Atekron said:

it's not only railjack, it's also their attitude, I do think that realise of PoE witch was rather successful made them too arrogant, they enjoyed good press and influx of many new players, they was "king of the hill", and they stop caring

I'm really hoping Outriders knocks it out of the park for this reason. Another successful action RPG without some big controversy around it would remind DE that #1 is a title that needs defence in a hurry, but more than that, some of Outriders mechanics seem if not inspired by Warframe, going in the same direction as (outrageous powers, and up-close and personal action). I'd be surprised if the Outrider's devs didn't at least play Warframe and like that experience, even if they wound up making dramatically different choices of how to get there. And inspiration goes both ways.