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Eximus enemies should be retired


Grave.Knight

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I was thinking that they really should remove the Parasitic/Energy Leech Eximus and then I thought about it and I can't see why Eximus exist at all. They just have extra damage and that's it. The Parasitic Eximus are the only ones that do anything that really affect gameplay, by draining all your energy to punish you for not killing an enemy that's draining your energy from behind a wall, and the Frost Eximus by slowing you down while also adding a shield.

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"Eximus units spawn 10-15 ranks higher than the rank average for the mission at hand, along with the highest increase in stats and resistances, posing a reasonable challenge for under-equipped or inexperienced Tenno."

Are you inexperienced? If so, then the eximus are actually for you. Any reason why you conveniently want the energy eximus gone even though "They just have extra damage and that's it"? Lol

Oh, also "Upon death, Eximus units provide 450 - 500 additional base affinity gain".

They actually do more than just having extra damage. Maybe try reading about them?

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41 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Oh, also "Upon death, Eximus units provide 450 - 500 additional base affinity gain".

Wow! 450-500 additional affinity! That's sooo much affinity. Doesn't make them less boring.

As for the Energy Leeches, they're only slightly less annoying than the old Grineer Commanders that would stun lock you in switch teleports (which they still can do if there is enough of them, they kind of should be retired too, or at least given a better ability than frustration inducing switch teleport/knock down).

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36 minutes ago, Grave.Knight said:

Wow! 450-500 additional affinity! That's sooo much affinity. Doesn't make them less boring.

As for the Energy Leeches, they're only slightly less annoying than the old Grineer Commanders that would stun lock you in switch teleports (which they still can do if there is enough of them, they kind of should be retired too, or at least given a better ability than frustration inducing switch teleport/knock down).

So are they boring, or annoying and frustrating? You don't seem to know why exactly you want them gone. 

Do they bore you because they're so easy, or are they frustrating and annoying because they provide some slight resistance and you can't completely steamroll them like everything else? 

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Add LOS requirements to the Energy Leech aura, and / or make multiples of that aura not stack.

That's really the one thing (or ... two things, I guess) about Eximi that's a bit garbage IMO,
I like the idea behind them in general and certainly don't want them gone.

If anything, add some more variants :D

Just ... don't bring back / add anything like Magnetic / Radiation proc nonsense, thankyouverymuch.

And for Stug's sake, replace the "Balls Of Steel" with Eximus variants of those Kela Turret Rollers already, gosh.

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2 minutes ago, (PSN)thegarada said:

I only have issue with the energy eximus. The rest are fair game and add variety to the game play.

This. The Energy eximus just immediately drains your energy to zero with no warning, from behind walls etc. At least with a frost eximus you know he's nearby due the hints the game gives (slow speed and ice aura). With an energy eximus your energy just goes from full to zero in a second and you are left wonder WTF happened. They really need more signaling so you have a little window to counter them.

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I agree with the OP, Eximus units were originally added to the game because they were an easy way of adding new and powerful enemies without having to generate new models or animations. Now that the game is far more developed, we have a far greater diversity of units, including many that fit the niche Eximus units once held, such as Rex units on Deimos. At the end of the day, Eximus units are just regular units with special auras and resistances, and they don't really generate new or exciting gameplay. In the cases of Eximus units with invisible Energy-draining auras, they in fact reduce it. I would thus also be in favor of removing Eximus units from the game, and instead having more distinct elite units, which could be as simple as making certain current enemy types more prominent, e.g. Manics, Bursas, and so on.

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Think of it as an extra tier of an enemy type, not an individual enemy type. I personally like having an eximus version, and also found it a much more unique name than the "elite" or "badass" enemy names you see in other games. They might not add much variation visually, but they add variation within each enemy type. 

I personally wouldn't mind a whole new tier on top so we have regular/eximus/cosmic enemies or something. 

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1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

I agree with the OP, Eximus units were originally added to the game because they were an easy way of adding new and powerful enemies without having to generate new models or animations. Now that the game is far more developed, we have a far greater diversity of units, including many that fit the niche Eximus units once held, such as Rex units on Deimos. At the end of the day, Eximus units are just regular units with special auras and resistances, and they don't really generate new or exciting gameplay. In the cases of Eximus units with invisible Energy-draining auras, they in fact reduce it. I would thus also be in favor of removing Eximus units from the game, and instead having more distinct elite units, which could be as simple as making certain current enemy types more prominent, e.g. Manics, Bursas, and so on.

Rex units are one, new enemy from a recent update. You're forgetting about literally every other faction. 

They do generate new and exciting gameplay, because enemy ranks should be varied. These are full factions or armies with their own rank structures. They have fodder, low, middle, high tier, elite, special, etc. You're going into massive enemy strongholds, not some guys apartment. 

We're storming bases on entire planets. There shouldn't be just a couple dudes on a massive floating base.

 

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19 hours ago, Grave.Knight said:

Energy Leeches are annoying and frustrating. The other ones are boring. I do know what I want.

They are supposed to be. That means you're supposed to actually try using some tactics instead of mindlessly spamming abilities in a direction without looking. 

They should make them easily identifiable so you can go attack them, that's it.

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1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Rex units are one, new enemy from a recent update. You're forgetting about literally every other faction. 

Which is why I merely listed them as an example, rather than the model for everything else to follow, as per the following:

2 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Now that the game is far more developed, we have a far greater diversity of units, including many that fit the niche Eximus units once held, such as Rex units on Deimos.

Had you read perhaps a few sentences further down, you would have found that I listed examples of elite units from other factions too:

2 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

I would thus also be in favor of removing Eximus units from the game, and instead having more distinct elite units, which could be as simple as making certain current enemy types more prominent, e.g. Manics, Bursas, and so on.

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

They do generate new and exciting gameplay, because enemy ranks should be varied. These are full factions or armies with their own rank structures. They have fodder, low, middle, high tier, elite, special, etc. You're going into massive enemy strongholds, not some guys apartment. 

We're storming bases on entire planets. There shouldn't be just a couple dudes on a massive floating base.

Literally no part of your rationale follows from the other. Enemy ranks should indeed be varied, which is why we should be focusing more on distinct units, rather than the same units with a generic aura that, as pointed out already, doesn't actually generate "new and exciting gameplay". Given that Eximus units are common to all factions, they add no distinctiveness to any individual faction's rank structure. I'm not even going to ask what the deal is with storming "some guy's apartment" or with "just a couple of dudes on a massive floating base", given that that doesn't seem to have any relevance to the exchange whatsoever.

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1 minute ago, Teridax68 said:

Which is why I merely listed them as an example, rather than the model for everything else to follow, as per the following:

Had you read perhaps a few sentences further down, you would have found that I listed examples of elite units from other factions too:

Literally no part of your rationale follows from the other. Enemy ranks should indeed be varied, which is why we should be focusing more on distinct units, rather than the same units with a generic aura that, as pointed out already, doesn't actually generate "new and exciting gameplay". Given that Eximus units are common to all factions, they add no distinctiveness to any individual faction's rank structure. I'm not even going to ask what the deal is with storming "some guy's apartment" or with "just a couple of dudes on a massive floating base", given that that doesn't seem to have any relevance to the exchange whatsoever.

The rationale is that we should be adding more units, and not taking them away.

They actually do add distinctiveness to faction rank structure, that's literally why they are there.....do I need to start copy-pasting the wiki on eximus units? They buff the fodder enemies around them, have auras that affect you for getting too close and a whole host of other things that help their faction and help fight against you, the player, that has infiltrated their base.

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Just now, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

The rationale is that we should be adding more units, and not taking them away.

It seems we are in agreement, then, because I too would like more distinct units, rather than reskinned units with different stats.

Just now, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

They actually do add distinctiveness to faction rank structure, that's literally why they are there.....do I need to start copy-pasting the wiki on eximus units? They buff the fodder enemies around them, have auras that affect you for getting too close and a whole host of other things that help their faction and help fight against you, the player, that has infiltrated their base.

If they do so for literally every faction, then by definition they do not make faction rank structures distinct from one another. Replacing them with elite units unique to each faction would do a much better job of distinguishing them.

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2 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

It seems we are in agreement, then, because I too would like more distinct units, rather than reskinned units with different stats.

If they do so for literally every faction, then by definition they do not make faction rank structures distinct from one another. Replacing them with elite units unique to each faction would do a much better job of distinguishing them.

They should add new units distinctive to every faction on top of the existing ones, sure. 

Last time I checked, the corpus didn't spew damaging aoe goop on the floor like the infested, and the infested dont drop electrical mines on the ground like the corpus. The factions are already distinguished and easily identifiable as completely separate entities, that's why the grineer don't have nullifiers or ancients....but armies are still the same even though they are different, that's why the same tactics are used like snipers or long range attackers, melee range attackers, foot soldiers or fodder enemies, heavy units, aoe or explosive units etc.

 

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1 minute ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

They should add new units distinctive to every faction on top of the existing ones, sure. 

Even if those existing ones are outdated and no longer benefit gameplay? Great reasoning, that sure worked well for Nervos.

1 minute ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Last time I checked, the corpus didn't spew damaging aoe goop on the floor like the infested, and the infested dont drop electrical mines on the ground like the corpus.

That's interesting, because last time I checked, those aren't features exclusive to Eximus units. You could take Eximus units out and would still have those exact same mechanics for each faction.

1 minute ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

The factions are already distinguished and easily identifiable as completely separate entities, that's why the grineer don't have nullifiers or ancients....but armies are still the same even though they are different, that's why the same tactics are used like snipers or long range attackers, melee range attackers, foot soldiers or fodder enemies, heavy units, aoe or explosive units etc.

Wait, so are factions already distinct enough as is through their base units, or are they not and need to be distinguished with eximus units? You're contradicting yourself here.

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On 2020-11-24 at 8:34 AM, BahamutKaiser said:

Eximus enemies add more diversity to the hoard. But I can agree that passive banes are not very interactive. It would be nice if Eximus were more like Thralls, with some interesting abilities and some practical weapon status additives. 

This. I always thought eximus enemies were kinda like "placeholders" for something better, because to me they feel like "we need more enemy types, but we dont have resources or time to make new models or animations so we just slap these passive abilities and ephemeras on them for now" 

They should definately rework them now to be more unique and interesting. 

Energy leech eximus should honestly go away, its VERY cheap that they can depleat 600 energy in a matter of seconds and theres one in the map at all times during some missions. So you need either energy generating warframes or energy pads... They should instead stop warframe energy regeneration only or steal energy by attacking you directly like the ancient does (but with smaller amounts at a time) 

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6 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Even if those existing ones are outdated and no longer benefit gameplay? Great reasoning, that sure worked well for Nervos.

That's interesting, because last time I checked, those aren't features exclusive to Eximus units. You could take Eximus units out and would still have those exact same mechanics for each faction.

Wait, so are factions already distinct enough as is through their base units, or are they not and need to be distinguished with eximus units? You're contradicting yourself here.

They benefit gameplay, and they benefit their allies....the enemies you're fighting.....they clearly don't want you mindlessly slicing through their ranks with no resistance....so an occasional arctic eximus will slow you down temporarily, forcing you to focus on it. As I said before, they also give more affinity, which actually does benefit you, the player....if you were leveling a weapon, frame, or farming focus. If you have every single weapon maxed and focus maxed, then this doesn't apply to you, as most players aren't MR 30.....

The eximus units can offer protection to those base units, to prevent people from mindlessly slashing through them. That's why they can provide resistances to the elements of the damage you deal, why they strip your energy, and why they slow you down, knock you down with a heat blast etc.

Also, the Blitz Eximus Guardian are exclusive to the Corpus.....so you've actually contradicted yourself by saying "Given that Eximus units are common to all factions, they add no distinctiveness to any individual faction's rank structure"

So which is it? Are they common to all factions or not?

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33 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

They benefit gameplay, and they benefit their allies....the enemies you're fighting.....

Benefiting other enemies does not necessarily benefit gameplay, and it hasn't really here. How exactly is gameplay deeper or richer due to Eximus units?

33 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

they clearly don't want you mindlessly slicing through their ranks with no resistance....so an occasional arctic eximus will slow you down temporarily, forcing you to focus on it.

That's interesting, given how gameplay in Warframe does in fact come down to mindlessly slicing through enemy ranks with no resistance, with or without Arctic Eximus units. Doesn't seem like they've really achieved their purpose.

33 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

As I said before, they also give more affinity, which actually does benefit you, the player....if you were leveling a weapon, frame, or farming focus. If you have every single weapon maxed and focus maxed, then this doesn't apply to you, as most players aren't MR 30.....

By that logic, one could simply make every enemy grant more Affinity, and it would be of net benefit to the player. An enemy type shouldn't exist purely to be an Affinity sack.

33 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

The eximus units can offer protection to those base units, to prevent people from mindlessly slashing through them. That's why they can provide resistances to the elements of the damage you deal, why they strip your energy, and why they slow you down, knock you down with a heat blast etc.

Quick question: how much of the game have you played? Because Warframe is notorious for being trivially easy once certain mods, frames, and weapons are obtained, and if you don't think we're "mindlessly slashing" through enemies already, you may probably be still playing at a level where Eximus units may represent some sort of challenge, which they don't at higher levels.

33 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Also, the Blitz Eximus Guardian are exclusive to the Corpus.....so you've actually contradicted yourself by saying "Given that Eximus units are common to all factions, they add no distinctiveness to any individual faction's rank structure"

So which is it? Are they common to all factions or not?

Eximus units are common to all factions, and many of their bonuses overlap, even if some do not. The point you were arguing was that the mere existence of some elite unit differentiated factions, which is impossible if that unit tier exists across factions. I'm grateful you mentioned Corpus Blitz Eximus units, actually, because their ability to cast knockdown shockwaves in the same vein as Grineer Heavy Gunners, Bombards, etc. homogenizes the two factions by giving the Corpus greater access to a mechanic only few of their units otherwise possess. Effectively, removing those units would make the two factions more distinct from one another.

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I don’t think they should go but be added to. We have random names already why not give these units names like in Diablo. Then more effects. 

Fires lighting when hit, 

aura that gives enemies, fire, ice, electric, toxic.

poison gas clouds around it.

regenerating health.

An armoured skin immune to spells.

Thorns,

reflect spells

magicl orbs that follow it and attack the player.

Lich thrall ability’s being added to them. 

Splits when killed.

could have blue yellow and red names. 

Blue 1 buff yellow 2 and red 3.

better drops for each of what ever you want to put in.

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1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

Benefiting other enemies does not necessarily benefit gameplay, and it hasn't really here. How exactly is gameplay deeper or richer due to Eximus units?

That's interesting, given how gameplay in Warframe does in fact come down to mindlessly slicing through enemy ranks with no resistance, with or without Arctic Eximus units. Doesn't seem like they've really achieved their purpose.

By that logic, one could simply make every enemy grant more Affinity, and it would be of net benefit to the player. An enemy type shouldn't exist purely to be an Affinity sack.

Quick question: how much of the game have you played? Because Warframe is notorious for being trivially easy once certain mods, frames, and weapons are obtained, and if you don't think we're "mindlessly slashing" through enemies already, you may probably be still playing at a level where Eximus units may represent some sort of challenge, which they don't at higher levels.

Eximus units are common to all factions, and many of their bonuses overlap, even if some do not. The point you were arguing was that the mere existence of some elite unit differentiated factions, which is impossible if that unit tier exists across factions. I'm grateful you mentioned Corpus Blitz Eximus units, actually, because their ability to cast knockdown shockwaves in the same vein as Grineer Heavy Gunners, Bombards, etc. homogenizes the two factions by giving the Corpus greater access to a mechanic only few of their units otherwise possess. Effectively, removing those units would make the two factions more distinct from one another.

That's your subjective opinion, and clearly it doesn't align with the people who make the game....or else the eximus units and the resistances they provide wouldn't be in the game now, would they? Some people have called for railjack to be removed from the game, said it wasn't "deep and rich" just like you....but some like railjack and it's still here, odd.

Just because you built your arsenal up over time to trivialize an aspect of the game doesn't mean your arsenal is standard by any means. Do you think the game and its enemies revolve around your arsenal? 

Eximus units don't exist "purely to be an Affinity sack". We've already discussed what they are for.....so calling them "solely" an affinity sack is just how you perceive them. That's your issue and no one else's. 

What makes the factions distinct from one another, like I said before, are their separate base mechanisms, with the eximus there to aid and assist them. They use different weapons, tools and methods. If they're not an issue, as you claim....then there should be no issue leaving them in the game, and adding other enemies along with them, which no one has even provided any ideas for, since you need deep and rich enemies to make the factions even more distinct from one another. 

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