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When was warframe good? Or Warframe: Beyond the light.


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1 minute ago, Cloud said:

I played this game since close to the very beginning, so I passed almost all the Warframe "ages".

What I can tell is that the core of the game never changed. Sure, a lot of content and missions were added but in the end we were gods among minions and we still are, just on different tiers. 

For me the very problem of warframe is this. No matter how many new fancy missions, enemies, features and mechanics they will add, we will always be too strong to give them an actual sense so DE needs to create different systems in order to recreate some sort of balance. 

Operator, Railjack, Isolated new open areas, Necramechs, Bossfights or Events resulting more in Puzzles and arcade sessions more than fighting something and so on are just a way to deal with this.

For me, that in some way could even work, but they fail to commit to every attempt, they just launch, support it for few months and go for the next one. 

For me, being gods amongst minions isn't a problem, it's that it's handled in the least fun way possible a lot of the time. Spam out a couple god-mode abilities without any meaningful limiters or caveats. You don't need to get fancy, creative or play well to achieve that power, just throw down a pizza, and you have enough energy to turn invisible - which might as well be invulnerability, as enemies never even instigate damage - for a minute and a half, and that's before you remember mods other than Primed Flow exist, allowing you to balloon the 'time exempt from the enemy's AI' to many times that.

Crowd Control Spam, Nuking, Lazy Tanks... different cuts and styles, but the same cloth. 

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7 hours ago, TimeFack said:

Hello forum. I've been playing Warframe for 4 months (27 mr, yes I'm braindead).

1.Recently began to notice a lot of people began to remember the good old days. And although I understand that nastalgia changes reality, but still. What in your opinion has changed over the years. The game is already 7+ years old. When was the heyday and why exactly did this happen?

2.Now why am I start playing and my expirience. I'm tired of Dota 2 and the toxic community and I love science fiction. So i tried warframe. Honestly, if it weren't for the random guy(now he is my friend), I wouldn't have lasted even a couple of days. Instead of the game itself, he explained all the mechanics to me. What does beyond the light have to do with it then.
The game is overblown. The threshold of entry for new players is unrealistic. Three open worlds with their own farms, 220 nodes, sanctuary, railjack, relics, 220 nodes again on the steel path (after all, it's so fun(sarcasm)), Kuva Lich, and that's not all. The game needs a reboot, discard bad ideas, improve good ones.Make the game challenging. DE needs a producer with a single vision.
I would like to enter the game, not only to put in the form in the craft and sometimes kill a couple of eidalons. I don't even want to farm new vaults, why do I need a new weapon if I have nothing to do with it. Hopefully after the pandemic, something will change. Anyway, I want to say thank you to DE for a thousand hours of frustration, fun, meeting new people around the world.

 

1 - I think it was good when it was more simple. I started playing in early 2013 and for me the best times were around 2014-2015, pre relic system. When you had to host Void missions with keys. I  think it encouraged more player interraction which boosted the online experience. You can make the comparison to World of Warcraft. In the vanilla, you didn't have flying mounts and you had to physically go to a dungeons door to enter it, which meant you'd encounter and interract with players on a deeper level.

 

2 - I totally agree with a reboot. I've been saying this for a while now, WF's days are numbered. There are only 2 options if DE ever wants this to continue say for another 5 years. 

Either a reboot like you said, or WF2. Just by adding more mess on an already messy foundation will collapse at some point. Cosmetics and half*ssed content can't keep the player base occupied for long. 

Edited by White_Matter
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7 hours ago, vegetosayajin said:

I never said it is hard, it's just ... useless XD

Why is it useless?

Seriously, this "MR is meaningless" S#&$ is getting out of hand.
It isn't useless or meaningless, just because you can't get past the MR 9 test doesn't mean its bad.

First, yeah MR is no measure of anyone's knowledge or proficiency with the game. I have no issues with that, its quite true, i've met MR 20++ people that don't know basic S#&$ like how rotations work, and do S#&$ just because some youtuber said so, even without understanding why that youtuber said it, and how it doesn't apply to some situations.

But that doesn't mean MR is useless. Yes, after MR 16 there's no content hidden behind MR, sure. But, even before MR30 bonuses, MR is a significant improvement of QoL.
First all there's the obvious one... At MR 30 your rank 0 weapons have the same capacity as a maxed out. Which means you can mod them early and have more power while levelling, which allows you to be able to solo level in higher level content, without having to rely on leeching from players.
The there's syndicate daily maximums. This allows you to play more without hitting the cap which invalidates a big chunk of the reasons to spend time in some content. Your time spent playing keeps its meaning.
Void Traces cap, allows you to do more missions in a row without having to force spend void traces on relics just because you already hit the max, which also means you can stack more before a new Prime release, and get the rares faster.
Higher Focus Cap means you level your focus schools faster.
Higher enemy level in simulacrum allows you to tune builds for actual high level enemies safely.
Then there's the loadout slots, which, yeah you can buy, but free ones are good, allowing you to swap builds faster.

Also, while having MR 30 doesn't mean that the person actually used every item that he leveled to get there, people that don't play past some MR because they "main" something, definitely DIDN'T do that, so chances are, a MR 30 person will know more about the nuances of using, and building, some items than any MR 20 "veteran".
And finally, if you did use the items, and then DIDN'T take the mastery test... Then that's just dumb. I mean, you put in the work, but CHOSE to gimp your QoL?

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52 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

1 - I think it was good when it was more simple. I started playing in early 2013 and for me the best times were around 2014-2015, pre relic system. When you had to host Void missions with keys. I  think it encouraged more player interraction which boosted the online experience. You can make the comparison to World of Warcraft. In the vanilla, you didn't have flying mounts and you had to physically go to a dungeons door to enter it, which meant you'd encounter and interract with players on a deeper level.

 

2 - I totally agree with a reboot. I've been saying this for a while now, WF's days are numbered. There are only 2 options if DE ever wants this to continue say for another 5 years. 

Either a reboot like you said, or WF2. Just by adding more mess on an already messy foundation will collapse at some point. Cosmetics and half*ssed content can't keep the player base occupied for long. 

A reboot isn't happening, neither is a sequel. Nobody is wanting to do this grind all over again, with all the time and money spent ultimately being wasted. You have a dream that's never happening, and everyone needs to realize that idea is straight up ridiculous. You can say it however many times you want, but DE isn't doing any of that. Warframe's days are not numbered yet, you're just getting bored and like some, are already eager for the game to die.

Edited by (PSN)ErydisTheLucario
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The pinnacle of warframe's golden age started with the second dream update, it was the quest that blew the entire communitys mind, its hard for some people to understand but back in those times, we had been speculating on what the tenno were for forever and it took everyone by surprise. The second dream also added the focus system which added more depth to the gamplay, and sorties which (At a time before we had all these overpowered mods) were actually somewhat challenging. It was a very exciting time to be a warframe fan. After that each major update seemed to add something new that was actually worth getting hyped for, DE at this time seemed to keep most of their promises as well , we, as a community all felt connected. We didnt experience things alone, i remember when the war within (finally) came out, me and my whole clan were raving over how great the update was,  the weapons, the lore, the new gamplay features, to me it felt perfect. But after the sacrifice quest, they then started releaseing open worlds, initially they seemed like a step in the right direction however, many veterans like me quickly  got tired of it. Pains of eidolon was the update that heralded the end of the golden age, and warframe began its downward spiral. And here we are, clinging on to hope that some day warframe will rise from the ashes and be reborn

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8 hours ago, ES-Flinter said:

I can't say when was Warframe good (because it was always good. It was just never great), but I can explain what I miss when I started 7 years ago.

Back then did waypoints and death meant something. There wasn't something like vacuum which picked everything up for you. It was easy to miss the one or other rare ressource therefore it was normal to make a waypoint when you found something rare. It was especially helpful on Assasination mission where it could happen that the pink-blue orb with the warframe part flew somewhere trough to room and you had to spent 5min only to find and collect the wrong bp.

The second part which I miss is the part where people revived each other and could die. Today it feels for me like that nobody cares anymore if someone is bleeding out. Many seems to think :"let him die, he has more than four revives left." When I started it was one of the most important things to revive the fallen teammates, because if someone died he was and will very likely stay dead. Nobody wanted to spent platinum for a new revive (except me one time) or use one of his only four daily revives for a mission he can easily repeat.

Even now I have the problem that when someone accidentally made a waypoint that I instinctive run to it severely times just to pick there something important up or try to revive my fallen crewmate.

I would never say that the changes were bad, but I would say that these changes make waypoints unimportant and the game easy.

"just  never great" ... Heresy, 

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6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Here let me tell you what your opinion is

No.

There are now empirical studies that show harder and more difficult mechanics and situations directly influence and color user interactions to a far greater degree than everything except overwhelmingly polished or "advanced" visual presentation, and WF stopped being hard other than hitting an external failure state when operators were launched.

Being killed as even Nyx or Banshee stopped being a thing with the introduction of tweenagemurderhobo and operators were steadily buffed thereafter, and the game became easier and easier, and player dissatisfaction and expression thereof has steadily increased thereafter. The introduction of Super Wide Hallways™ and the hype and mechanics of those nodes not matching each other has also likely contributed.

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8 hours ago, vanaukas said:

For me it's still good, but I feel sorry for the people that push themselves to play something they don't enjoy anymore just to justify the time/money investment.

Riviving with plat was wrong, but you are right, I think only "vets" care about that stuff nowadays. I always try to revive someone if it's within 250m

I play almost exclusively Gauss nowadays and its a bit of a game to see whats the furthest I can be from someone and still make it to them before they die. So far my record is about 450 meters xD

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Before Revenant was released. After that there just seemed to be a noticeable decrease in quality for all content that followed him.

That decrease became significantly more noticeable following the Kuva Lich update. We’ve been on a pretty big downward spiral since.

Edited by (XBOX)GearsMatrix301
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10 hours ago, vegetosayajin said:

As far as I can tell from videos wf was in it's good days about the TWW update and maybe to the sacrifice(not only the quests, the community, lore, missions, etc).
 

Damn, dude...I can't imagine the useless fodder you got trough in such little time... Was it worth it, the countless hours in hydron/eso/adaro leveling trash?

i actually didnt plan to go beyond mr 20 but accidentally trying few things more gave me 4 more mr , it makes me cringe ngl :d

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2 hours ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

A reboot isn't happening, neither is a sequel. Nobody is wanting to do this grind all over again, with all the time and money spent ultimately being wasted. You have a dream that's never happening, and everyone needs to realize that idea is straight up ridiculous. You can say it however many times you want, but DE isn't doing any of that. Warframe's days are not numbered yet, you're just getting bored and like some, are already eager for the game to die.

It may or may not. A reboot wouldn't  necessarily have to kill all the grind(not that DE really cares about that) btw but yes It likely wouldn't happen. Even a sequel seems more likely, which may draw players in if it is done right. 

As for the numbered days, I do think that is the case. WF won't last more  than 2-3 years, especially with the introduction of "Next Gen" ; both PC and Console games that'll be introduced in the following years will only widen the visual gap which already exists between up to date games and WF.

The truth about games is, they never age like wine.  WF is not an exception.

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As for the main topic, I still thunk warframe is a great game. Feel free to disagree, But thats just my 2 cents. Ive been playing for nearly 6 years, and racked up over 2.5k hours over the game, and while I have taken breaks, due to a lack of content or just not wanting to burn out on the game, Ive never been at the point where I think the game is hopeless. Its biggest issues are still proper frame balancing, moreso in a way that allows each frame to be not so much viable but instead fun alternatives to each other. Things that stand out include nyx and hydroid, who are playable but have a weak skillset for the game that warframe has become. 
 

I dont agree with the notion that the game needs a reboot or that it NEEDS to be more challenging. Ive always viewed the game as a cathartic horde shooter, and It still fulfills that role quite well. The people who claim the game have nothing to do are most often the ultra veterans who have put 5k+ hours into the game and dont have any real goals beyond “hee hoo mr go brrr.” 
 

I work on two major goals myself, that being helping new players understand the game, since as we all know the game does a horrible job explaining itself, and the second goal being a test to see how stupidly fast I can get my Gauss, and the subsequent Skill required to control said speed. 
 

My biggest wish for the game would be to return in a form to the old system where every two-3 weeks PC got an update, whether it be a few weapons, or even now making it things like warframe tweaks and small map/enemy changes. By causing a small but consistent series of changes, you allow the game to keep moving and feel like its changing. While on console we wouldnt get the updates as often obviously, it was still aways nice to be ready for a patch with 4-6 new guns every few months. 

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10 hours ago, TimeFack said:

1.Recently began to notice a lot of people began to remember the good old days. And although I understand that nastalgia changes reality, but still. What in your opinion has changed over the years. The game is already 7+ years old. When was the heyday and why exactly did this happen?

The golden age is whenever you started first getting good at the game, before DE ruined your favorite activity and playstyle with nerfs/buffs/new frames/removing raids/focusing too much on open worlds/adding Railjack (delete where appropriate)

10 hours ago, TimeFack said:

2.Now why am I start playing and my expirience. I'm tired of Dota 2 and the toxic community and I love science fiction. So i tried warframe. Honestly, if it weren't for the random guy(now he is my friend), I wouldn't have lasted even a couple of days. Instead of the game itself, he explained all the mechanics to me. What does beyond the light have to do with it then.
The game is overblown. The threshold of entry for new players is unrealistic.

Very much true. Beyond a single cinematic tutorial and a couple vague checklists on the Solar Rail Junctions, DE have absolutely no idea how to lead players into progression

10 hours ago, TimeFack said:

Make the game challenging. DE needs a producer with a single vision.

Sadly this specifically will never happen. Their days of Unreal 1 and darkSector are long over

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10 hours ago, TimeFack said:

When was the heyday and why exactly did this happen?

The heyday was whenever you personally enjoyed the game most. For me, that was 2017-18 riven trading, with exploring the Helminth system in second. WF is overall as good as it's ever been, easy to burn out on, but also easy to come back to after a break. I see the current WF maybe trying to be too many different things to too many different types of players, watering down the core experience, so hopefully DE gets back to space ninja horde shooter basics.

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9 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

It may or may not. A reboot wouldn't  necessarily have to kill all the grind(not that DE really cares about that) btw but yes It likely wouldn't happen. Even a sequel seems more likely, which may draw players in if it is done right. 

As for the numbered days, I do think that is the case. WF won't last more  than 2-3 years, especially with the introduction of "Next Gen" ; both PC and Console games that'll be introduced in the following years will only widen the visual gap which already exists between up to date games and WF.

The truth about games is, they never age like wine.  WF is not an exception.

some games do age fine , they lose when they either get too complacent and/or lose adaptability or become EA-esq , i also dont agree with people that say 'this is warframe and this is what always what it was' , when it can be better indeed , just you dont see it doesnt mean De doesnt have capacity to do it , anyway .

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if some of you legit , cant think for yourself on how a grind can be made more fun , and elements/content in the game to match the power level  i dont know what to tell you , others game have it , but when its warframe y'all raise your pitchforks and say 'no there should be no end-game' 'what is endgame its vague topic' 'no you dont bring that up you salty'  , sure sure soon enough personally i wont ever bring that up no worries , and if youre having so much fun why wasting time complaning on my or other's complaints anyway ? just enjoy the game however you want , noones stopping you ? 

Remember when some of you were saying , just leave no-ones stopping you ? yea about that notion , i  think  we all know the tables have tuned ;) 

Edited by killerJoke66
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It's not that the game has changed just that when referring to "the good old days" we actually mean "the newbie days" the game is just more fun when you're starting out, but once all the story quests are done with all that's left is grind, minmaxing and fashion-frame.
The game does have some really nice captivating cinematic quests and up until that point the sense of progression also happens to stay intact.

ofc crazy people without lives like us still play this game since we've invested so much time into it that we cant let go, thats something that can happen with any game, especially in the case of Warframe where the main story has yet to be concluded and were still getting updates left and right.

Edited by HelNite
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2 hours ago, -Kittens- said:

No.

There are now empirical studies that show harder and more difficult mechanics and situations directly influence and color user interactions to a far greater degree than everything except overwhelmingly polished or "advanced" visual presentation, and WF stopped being hard other than hitting an external failure state when operators were launched.

Being killed as even Nyx or Banshee stopped being a thing with the introduction of tweenagemurderhobo and operators were steadily buffed thereafter, and the game became easier and easier, and player dissatisfaction and expression thereof has steadily increased thereafter. The introduction of Super Wide Hallways™ and the hype and mechanics of those nodes not matching each other has also likely contributed.

You should have noticed the word "most" in my post, it would have spared you the whole answer. 

Operators are also the least impactful thing when it comes to difficulty. The massive arsenal we have and get more of constantly in the shape of weapons, companions and frames is what takes away difficulty. I honestly cannot remember the last time I used the operator for anything aside from as a passive combo duration stat stick, to remove stalker resistance, get into my mech or activate a monolith in deimos.

The massively inflated stat access through mods is what screws over difficulty, since we reach things too far off and we deal too much damage in the process at pretty much no cost and with no cooldowns while still obtaining an abundance of sustain through arcanes, skills or companion+frame mod combos.

But go on an blame it on the void kids if you want.

I do agree though, we need difficulty.

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For myself....Warframe was great when it first started on Xbox til Rivens showed up. 

Doing the game as a mastering Ninja frame with abilities owned and crafted to your liking was a role i wanted to play since i played Rygar and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle games on the NES. Finally getting that feel while doing Stealth, full out battling, defending, with artillery and melee was the game i was looking for in a sea of FPS that did nothing for those wanting more than the next DLC gun and map. 

The decline for me came in the form of Void Demoms. Most got emotional about a kid in a coffin...but i was on disappointment rise time. It would be the equivalent of finding out the Belmonts are controlled by a little alien inside them wearing a mech. It was a turn towards Disneyfying the Ninjas into toys collected. I stayed away from that storyline for years until they were about to release Umbra. 

The gameplay was still fine as not much was needed to use the Void Demons abd i enjoyed still having 4 powers to play with. Then the Rivens hit and the power creep went crazy. No longer were players using the mods we had to do the missions amd push ourselves....now the gambling and craving for Kuva and Rivens were born. Prices on event mods fell as did even getting events. It was all about the Rivens. 

Now we are at the moment on the games life where there are so many Rivens out there with not much differing in the enemies that the game tosses out to get torn apart the same from when i first started. Yay.....red crit numbers are all over the screen. The enemies still die the same way as before. 

I enjoy the game still even though there are aspects that could use some work but then, you gotta realize that DE is a game company. The only difference between them and others out there is they put different games into Warframe while other companies make different games under their umbrella. If an added way doesnt work in Warframe, they leave it in the game for others to still have a chance to play with it. If another companies game dies poorly, the franchise it could have made is scrapped and moves on to another game. And i prefer to have a whole game universe with many ways of playing in it than buying a game that gets nothing afterwards besides a memory of when it was the newest thing from a company.

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1 minute ago, (XBOX)DShinShoryuken said:

now the gambling and craving for Kuva and Rivens were born

Actually, I was ready to just quit WF forever and forget it existed, and then I saw that fascinating purple card... years later I'm still playing, because I love gambling, kuva, and rivens. Gambling for pseudo money without risk of losing real money? Hek yeah. I'm sorry to hear you don't enjoy rivens, but you should acknowledge that one can still more than achieve their wildest seal clubbing power fantasies without even thinking about rivens, so why the salt?

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22 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

You should have noticed the word "most" in my post, it would have spared you the whole answer. 

Operators are also the least impactful thing when it comes to difficulty. The massive arsenal we have and get more of constantly in the shape of weapons, companions and frames is what takes away difficulty. I honestly cannot remember the last time I used the operator for anything aside from as a passive combo duration stat stick, to remove stalker resistance, get into my mech or activate a monolith in deimos.

The massively inflated stat access through mods is what screws over difficulty, since we reach things too far off and we deal too much damage in the process at pretty much no cost and with no cooldowns while still obtaining an abundance of sustain through arcanes, skills or companion+frame mod combos.

But go on an blame it on the void kids if you want.

I do agree though, we need difficulty.

What's cool about operators imo is that they can be useful if you want to use them. 

There's are times when I'm really into using my operator for cc and there are times when I completely forget about them. You aren't forced to use them, but they can be very helpful if you implement them into your play style.

Im waiting for some amp power creep though. 

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13 hours ago, TimeFack said:

The game needs a reboot, discard bad ideas, improve good ones. Make the game challenging. DE needs a producer with a single vision.

Amen to that. Different kinds of content in the game feel completely disjointed from one another, they feel like separate projects from different people who are bored of working on Warframe. None of it feels challenging, and almost none of it feels engaging. I play this game because I enjoy making builds, but there's basically no content that puts player power to the test. 

Obviously I don't exactly know how things work at DE, but from my perspective it sure does feel like they lack a singular vision and direction for the game. It's just one "accretion" update after the other, things aren't even done or playtested when they're released, and they move on to the next big thing before finishing the previous one. (Where's the third orb fight? Where are the rest of Railjack's promised features?)

I recently started playing the game again after a 2-year break, and I'm very close to quitting again. A big part of the reason (besides the new update's frustrating mechanics) is the lack of direction and the lack of certainty that things will improve in any way over time. 

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The "good old days" ended right around when Void Keys were removed, so the middle of 2016*. The DPS meta hadn't evolved yet, so defensive and CC frames were just as important as DPS - if not more. Because of the way the Void Key system worked recruiting for parties was easier. "H T4D" and you'd get a dozen invite requests instantly. And when people joined you each took a role: someone would be a defensive frame, someone would be support, someone would CC. You built your group for the mission and there was more cooperation - no one was a one-man army. Now with so much powercreep over the years you can solo for hours, so there's no reason to organize or cooperate with teammates unless the game forces you to. The Relic system undoubtedly has its merits, but the Key system did too.

It wasn't just the Void Key system being retired, if you look at steamcharts.com you'll notice a shift in the pattern. DE shifted from an "update little things all the time" schedule to a more quarterly update schedule. Warframe's growth went from being up 3 months and  down 1 to the opposite: one spike of content roughly every quarter, with 3 or so months of decline always following. And that trend has continued since.

And what happened after the Void was "exploded"? Then in 2017 with PoE the start of the whole "open world" trend. Open worlds sucked up a lot of resources and energy for what really amounts to big empty landscapes and nothing much to do, with very little impact on the way the game is played. Raids were closed in 2018 and then Fortuna came, which was more of the same as PoE. Railjack dropped, flopped. Liches dropped, flopped. It's only now with Deimos 3 years later that DE's finally started to kind of understand open world zones, but even then they've still had some fumbles along the way. And the game is less balanced and more fragmented than ever.

2016* was the beginning of the end of Warframe's golden years of growth.

Edited by PublikDomain
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