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General Mech Health/Energy Economy Changes


TKDancer

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So, Mechs, as it stands, they have awful energy and health economies, only being healed by health orbs(25 a pop) and only gaining energy from energy orbs(also 25 a pop) or slowly through energy siphon

something has to change here

seems incredibly counter productive that the only way to reliably fully heal our Mechs is to have them destroyed and wait out the cooldown to summon them back at full health, also very annoying that they arent affected by energy restoring abilities, energizing dash or arcanes, because of all this, atm the only way to get reliable energy for Mechs atm is either running Protea or a frame that had Dispensary injected into their kit

what to do?

1st, energy: give them a baseline energy regen, remove benefits of running energy siphon with them. energy regen/s should be about 4 or so, maybe starting at a lower number and going up as the mechs rank up, this should not be tied to a mod but mods that slightly improve energy regen wouldnt be a bad idea, this would remove dependency on frames without making them overpowered

2nd, health: make Mechs heal when being hit by operator amps/blasts, just like Loid is healed by our operators in Iso Vaults, makes it feel like we're actually repairing them by feeding our own void energy, fits thematically, gives them reliable healing, win/win

you might these changes would make mechs too independent and to that i say: Yes, thats good, they are battle mechs, they are already limited to only being usable in open-world areas and the 2nd one we got is a mess, design-wise, least we should have is reliable energy and health gains with them

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When I know im gonna play a lot of mech i run Rejuvenation on my warframes. It affects mech too. Its not much but it's surprisingly enough.

To be honest I had no problem with energy. There is always plenty of orbs from the kills.

Most likely these "inconveniences" will change later on when we get more mods for the mechs.

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43 minutes ago, Askell91 said:

When I know im gonna play a lot of mech i run Rejuvenation on my warframes.

see that just adds onto the inconsistency, they're supposed to be their own thing, being unaffected by frame abilities and all, but depend on frame aura mods, and i imagine most people arent putting aura forma on their frames so then some frames become better as mech companions than others

i think it's better to remove any benefit from auras like rejuvenation and energy syphon in favor of having a built in way to regen health an energy(and as i also mention, make their repair dependent on operator)

 

45 minutes ago, Askell91 said:

 Its not much but it's surprisingly enough.

3 health per second is far from enough for chunky mechs with thousands of hp(that goes away unsurprisingly fast in big fights, specially for bone widow and her weird shield), it definitely helps since anything is more than 0, but if they are to have some small health regen, it should be built in and not tied to frame auras

 

48 minutes ago, Askell91 said:

To be honest I had no problem with energy. There is always plenty of orbs from the kills.

big disagree, their limited 3m vaccum combined with not being able to benefit from energize or zenuik's energy pulse makes mechs have incredibly inconsistent energy economies(unless using Dispensary), specially since the only mods we have to alleviate these energy woes are the necramech mods for streamline and flow, tho fortunately the latter is available for purchase from loid

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5 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

see that just adds onto the inconsistency, they're supposed to be their own thing, being unaffected by frame abilities and all, but depend on frame aura mods, and i imagine most people arent putting aura forma on their frames so then some frames become better as mech companions than others

i think it's better to remove any benefit from auras like rejuvenation and energy syphon in favor of having a built in way to regen health an energy(and as i also mention, make their repair dependent on operator)

This is most likely an oversight not inconsistency, So use it while you can :'D.

7 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

3 health per second is far from enough for chunky mechs with thousands of hp(that goes away unsurprisingly fast in big fights, specially for bone widow and her weird shield), it definitely helps since anything is more than 0, but if they are to have some small health regen, it should be built in and not tied to frame auras

Nobody said you have to facetank everything. When you get low hp you keep distance till you regen. (tho I like the Operators can heal mechs idea)

8 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

big disagree, their limited 3m vaccum combined with not being able to benefit from energize or zenuik's energy pulse makes mechs have incredibly inconsistent energy economies(unless using Dispensary), specially since the only mods we have to alleviate these energy woes are the necramech mods for streamline and flow, tho fortunately the latter is available for purchase from loid

I don't know. Maybe I don't have this problem becouse I already maxed them out and have all the necessary things equiped on them. (5 forma Voidrig 6 Bonewidow. Lvl ed them while doing ISO vaults so no Thermia farm. This time I did not take the shortcut becouse I actualy enjoy playing with mechs.) I had so much energy left that the vaccum bugs out and I have to get out of the mech spend some energy with the frame and absorb the orbs or they would follow me and make that sound when you pick one up continously. Kinda anoying xD.

Looks like you do agree with me on my last point, that future mods will most likely solve these issues because you did not moan about that...

First I would wait till they fix the mechs at all. I don't think Bonewidow's abilitys even work properly all the time. (I mean it's broken broken but most of the time the shield (2) is like not even there...)

 

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6 minutes ago, Askell91 said:

Nobody said you have to facetank everything. When you get low hp you keep distance till you regen. (tho I like the Operators can heal mechs idea)

did you forget the kind of game warframe is? its not like the mechs have the full mobility of frames or invisibility to avoid aggro, plus their huge hitboxes means they will soak more hits and again, without equipping rejuvenation theres no regen to be had even if u do find a corner with no enemies within an iso vault or similar encounter, and like you said this is prolly a glitch/oversight on DE's part, or maybe a technical limitation where they cant prevent rejuvenation/energy syphon without also disabling other kinds of auras

 

8 minutes ago, Askell91 said:

Looks like you do agree with me on my last point

not exactly, specially if DE keeps hiding them behind low drop-rate bounties like the other mods, in my original post i do say it'd be a good to idea to have mods that slightly improve a baseline energy regen tho

 

9 minutes ago, Askell91 said:

because you did not moan about that...

dont call legitimate feedback moaning

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2 hours ago, TKDancer said:

So, Mechs, as it stands, they have awful energy and health economies, only being healed by health orbs(25 a pop) and only gaining energy from energy orbs(also 25 a pop) or slowly through energy siphon

Actually, health orbs don't heal the mech at all. You can only pick them up if the pet you have with you doesn't have full hp. It will only restore hp to the pet though, and not to the mech.

Energy siphon also doesn't restore energy to mechs.

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48 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

did you forget the kind of game warframe is? its not like the mechs have the full mobility of frames or invisibility to avoid aggro, plus their huge hitboxes means they will soak more hits and again, without equipping rejuvenation theres no regen to be had even if u do find a corner with no enemies within an iso vault or similar encounter, and like you said this is prolly a glitch/oversight on DE's part, or maybe a technical limitation where they cant prevent rejuvenation/energy syphon without also disabling other kinds of auras

Yes as you said. It's Warframe not Mechframe. Thats exactly why I like the idea of operators repairing/healing them. It's new and unique.  If they had the same mobility as frames than they would be just another warframe. Let them be something unique. There are plenty of flaws in the mechs but if they make them day 1 the most broken things in the world and than add warframe lvl mods to them than the powercreep would be out of this world. (not like we are not half gods anyway.) This is why im saying we should wait for mods and not make them "perfect" day one.

A few years ago (when T3-4 survi was the hardest stuff around) we had to have a Trinity on the team all the time to keep us healed/invincible and topped of on energy. Right now nobody needs it what more you can easily solo a survi for hours.

48 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

not exactly, specially if DE keeps hiding them behind low drop-rate bounties like the other mods, in my original post i do say it'd be a good to idea to have mods that slightly improve a baseline energy regen tho

A lot of basic mods are already can be found at the syndicates and they put rare mods as bounty rewards. Most of the mods are much easier to get now than before and there is only a handful that you actualy have to farm. (nothing to show how much better it is right now than Nechramech Thrusters and Nechramech Streamline price drop on warframe.market. Both of them were 500+ plats and now Thrusters is 40 ish Streamline is 30 ish)

48 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

dont call legitimate feedback moaning

I did not call your post moaning.

Feedback is feedback and it even had some good ideas.

Your answer was. I gave you a legit tip how to get at least a bit of health regen and maybe keep yourself alive a bit easyer and thats your answer...

 

All Im saying is let's wait a bit until they fix things and put everything straight becouse right now It's obviously still not in the right place.

I agree they should be much tankier, but if they overbuff them than comes the nerfhammer, everyone just gonna be upset again like the time they released Nidus... and I bet we can find many more examples.

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4 minutes ago, CinderSail said:

Actually, health orbs don't heal the mech at all. You can only pick them up if the pet you have with you doesn't have full hp. It will only restore hp to the pet though, and not to the mech.

Energy siphon also doesn't restore energy to mechs.

Correct and correct. I forgot those. Thanks for the reminder.  :'D

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26 minutes ago, CinderSail said:

Energy siphon also doesn't restore energy to mechs.

i've noticed some energy regen from having it equipped so im inclined to think the wiki is wrong on this one

 

26 minutes ago, CinderSail said:

Actually, health orbs don't heal the mech at all. You can only pick them up if the pet you have with you doesn't have full hp. It will only restore hp to the pet though, and not to the mech.

and this makes the mech's health economy worse than i realized yikes!

 

23 minutes ago, Askell91 said:

Yes as you said. It's Warframe not Mechframe.

and the mechs are supposed to be war machines but atm they're less tanky than warframes and have worse energy economies than warframes

 

24 minutes ago, Askell91 said:

If they had the same mobility as frames than they would be just another warframe. Let them be something unique.

im not saying they should have, im saying that because they dont, they should be tankier, they are slow war rigs meant to take a beating, but they cant do that, bone widow specially

and on top of being tankier, since they are supposed to be unique, as you say, i think they should be given energy regen and be repair via operator amps/blasts

 

26 minutes ago, Askell91 said:

All Im saying is let's wait a bit until they fix things and put everything straight becouse right now It's obviously still not in the right place.

I agree they should be much tankier, but if they overbuff them than comes the nerfhammer, everyone just gonna be upset again like the time they released Nidus... and I bet we can find many more examples.

deimos came out 3 months ago, its high time to start fixing the base issues of mechs, specially as they start to release new ones

and i hardly think allowing them to be more self sufficient energy-wise while still needing operator gameplay for healing/repairing would warrant nerf hammers, SPECIALLY since atm 1 of the 2 mechs is in fact in desperate need of buffs/reworks directly post-release

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24 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

and the mechs are supposed to be war machines but atm they're less tanky than warframes and have worse energy economies than warframes

I already said twice I do agree... they should be tankier.

24 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

im not saying they should have, im saying that because they dont, they should be tankier, they are slow war rigs meant to take a beating, but they cant do that, bone widow specially

Same again and it's Bonewidow...

24 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

deimos came out 3 months ago, its high time to start fixing the base issues of mechs, specially as they start to release new ones

and i hardly think allowing them to be more self sufficient energy-wise while still needing operator gameplay for healing/repairing would warrant nerf hammers, SPECIALLY since atm 1 of the 2 mechs is in fact in desperate need of buffs/reworks directly post-release

Things obviously getting fixed much slower since they Work from home now becouse of covid and I don't think it's gonna be better for a while.

They honestly don't need built in energy regen / health regen especialy since they are brand new to warframe. (yes 3 months but can you see how slow fixes come out for them? I don't think revisions and community based buffs gonna be on the radar or should be on the radar before they are fixed properly and work as meant to be)

Obviously you don't even read the posts before answering. Don't be that mad becouse someone have a different viewpoint...

Than again. We should wait for fixes and buffs before we the community tell them what to do. Feedback is always fine but be a bit more open to others opnion. Mechs should be handled with care so they don't end up nerfed to the ground when new powerfull mods like an Adaptation comes out for them.

(Thanks and bye I'm not answering to more posts becouse this is going prety south..)

 

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6 minutes ago, Askell91 said:

(Thanks and bye I'm not answering to more posts becouse this is going prety south..)

 

is aggro for no reason, calls my feedback moaning, accuses me of not reading your responses then complains about... things going south? okay bye weirdo, dont come back!

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It's inexcusable that they currently use 'inanimate object' logic in terms of healing/support abilities (or at least Vazarin focus's Protective Dash).

If I bring Vazarin focus on my Operator, I except to protect and heal my mech, as efficiently as my frame. Not just the eternally useless 500hp/5s they made everything do to defendables. Mechs are an allied unit, not a static cryopod. They should be getting the full effects instead of that pathetic lipservice.

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34 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

It's inexcusable that they currently use 'inanimate object' logic in terms of healing/support abilities (or at least Vazarin focus's Protective Dash).

If I bring Vazarin focus on my Operator, I except to protect and heal my mech, as efficiently as my frame. Not just the eternally useless 500hp/5s they made everything do to defendables. Mechs are an allied unit, not a static cryopod. They should be getting the full effects instead of that pathetic lipservice.

while i agree that it's dumb that vazarin and trin's blessing treat it as innanimate objects i still think it'd be better to have healing be based mainly on firing amps/blasts on the mechs

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Just now, BahamutKaiser said:

The energy was more of a problem before? Mechs had vacuum. Maybe energize is patching it up though. 

from what i understand they only benefit from other people's energize proc'ing and releasing the bonus energy wave, not your own

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