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when an item has had every slot forma'd


(PSN)EmilsTekcor

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No, it shouldn't. That creates a trivial environment for building weapons with mods. The polarity system creates player choice. Sure, many builds are cookie-cutter due to the way some specific mods work, but there are choices players are forced to make, especially when Riven Mods, Primed Cryo Rounds, Exilus, or some Naramon polarity mods come into play. All slots being universal would remove this forced choice and make it too trivial.

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10 hours ago, Voltage said:

No, it shouldn't. That creates a trivial environment for building weapons with mods. The polarity system creates player choice. Sure, many builds are cookie-cutter due to the way some specific mods work, but there are choices players are forced to make, especially when Riven Mods, Primed Cryo Rounds, Exilus, or some Naramon polarity mods come into play. All slots being universal would remove this forced choice and make it too trivial.

The polarity system was designed with improving flexibility in mind. In theory, you should never have needed to polarise yourself into a corner with no slots un-polarised.

Of course, now it's horribly outdated, with Primed Mods, Riven Mods, entire additional slots (WF&Weapon Exilus, Necramechs) and other new expensive selections all vying for moire and bigger pieces of the pie.

It is now effectively serving the opposite of its design intent. It's become so obligatory to polarise excessively it's limiting players now. Imagine for a minute that we didn't just have a brick of so many obliged mods for output, or for another example, say more build-alternative things like Condition Overload get introduced but whoopsie they're filling in Vazarin polarity, or worse Zenurik or Unairu which is typically otherwise unused.

Two problems arise:
1) To use the new mods on existing builds, a player's previous investments are wasted (overwriting polarity/ies).
2) If using the new mods, the item no longer has options to build differently. They're locked into narrow build options.

There's a pretty clear problem when players are building duplicates just to be able to have different builds. The different configs obviously aren't enough, because the polarity system is limiting.

Also speaking in business sense, Forma bundles may likely be a big platinum seller for DE, but with the right system players would be encouraged to use more forma, without it being 'wasteful' investment as in problem 1 or locking them in per problem 2. There's probably a lot of players like myself who generally half-polarise at most, because of the flexibility and futureproofing it allows (at the cost of higher minmaxing) - 90% of 10 options beats 100% of 2 in my book.

 

OP's solution isn't the best business sense because it just puts the hard limit on ~8 forma (less any pre-polarised) and doesn't make special account for Umbral. But the system does need revisiting - letting people unlock polarities by X number of Y type through normal means, but being able to choose to use or not use them as needed would be the most preserving of current mechanisms, accessibility and opportunity cost, while bringing back the identity of the system and fixing those two main problems. Also, DE gets more forma bundles sold. There's validity in function for Forma investments up to 8 of each polarity, which is a lot more per-item than current 'set and forget' polarisation.

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1 hour ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

 

The system sucks. If a frame can have more than 1 build, as in 2 or more, you constantly have to re- forma slots on a regular basis. How regular you ask? Well, my Baruuk sits on 18 Forma used, and number 19 and 20 are already planned. Imo it's ridiculous to say the least, people shouldn't be punished for trying out new things compared to meta builds requiring like 2 forma tops.

Again, DE themselves said "variety is king", then how's this punishing system still not changed?

Idk how we should acquire universal forma, but I sure do know we need it. Times are over where there's only a handful of good mods for frames, we're in the hundreds now. 

Making compromises when building a Warframe is part of the game. I know exactly what you're talking about. I have plenty of weapons over 9 Forma, and plenty of Warframes over 10. I also have just under 3000 Forma applied between all items in the game. I still think the Forma system is good as it is, and removing the need to make compromises on builds would make the modding screen extremely boring.

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I wouldn't mind being able to forma a weapon/warframe past all of it's mod slots to change a polarity for an individual loadout slots polarity. (For example: 8 formad V polarity > 9th forma makes second loadout 7 V 1 D)

Or a forma that separates the polarities in a loadout slot. 

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1 hour ago, Voltage said:

Making compromises when building a Warframe is part of the game. I know exactly what you're talking about. I have plenty of weapons over 9 Forma, and plenty of Warframes over 10. I also have just under 3000 Forma applied between all items in the game. I still think the Forma system is good as it is, and removing the need to make compromises on builds would make the modding screen extremely boring.

Exactly  I've also messed soo much with some of my weapons and frames that I can say some have near 15 formas 

Is it frustrating yes do I regret doing that no it's part of the game fun try to find your own play style

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1 hour ago, Voltage said:

Making compromises when building a Warframe is part of the game. I know exactly what you're talking about. I have plenty of weapons over 9 Forma, and plenty of Warframes over 10. I also have just under 3000 Forma applied between all items in the game. I still think the Forma system is good as it is, and removing the need to make compromises on builds would make the modding screen extremely boring.

I would like to see these people play the old beta when there was 10 slots to mods but 4 were used by your skill cards making you chose to go powerless and have 10 mod slots or having your skills and only 6 slots to mod

Oh And no exilus slot also

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On the argument of "it's part of the game": yes, that is the problem.
And on "it's fun": no it's not.

Please give a better explanation why should we waste resources and effort everytime we would like to change a mod and why couldn't it be free after a certain investment.

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7 hours ago, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

The system sucks. If a frame can have more than 1 build, as in 2 or more, you constantly have to re- forma slots on a regular basis. How regular you ask? Well, my Baruuk sits on 18 Forma used, and number 19 and 20 are already planned. Imo it's ridiculous to say the least, people shouldn't be punished for trying out new things compared to meta builds requiring like 2 forma tops.

Again, DE themselves said "variety is king", then how's this punishing system still not changed?

Idk how we should acquire universal forma, but I sure do know we need it. Times are over where there's only a handful of good mods for frames, we're in the hundreds now. 

I'm sure we'll get even more flexibility eventually.  However I'd expect the effort/time/investment to be more commensurate than the OP's proposal with the solution we already have:  building multiple copies of frames and weapons, and forma-ing them up individually.

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Well, what if we could add additional polarity to a slot by applying forma second time?

Forma and empty slot – new chosen polarity.

Forma and already polarized slot – we get two polarities in one slot.

Even limiting it with two polarities for one slot would be a huge addition to variability, without hindering income from forma selling that much (as long as we have new weapons and mods coming).

Sure, fixing number of polarities would make UI more complex (when you are applying forma to already double-polarized slot you need to select, which one of the polarities you want to rewrite). Allowing to stack all the polarities in every slot would work perfectly with current UI: in slot selection interface you'd be able to cycle through all polarities not already in slot and won't be able to select "completely polarized" slot.

Imagine umbra+madurai to switch between regular and sacrificial mods, or vazarin+naramon for regular elemental and irregular cold. Also I have plenty of duplicate rivens that come in either vazarin or naramon polarity and would be very happy to swap them in one slot.

P.S. I remember ability mods and no exilus slots, having to think whether you want that particular ability or stats. As well as fusion rules "perfect duplicate is the best, then matching polarity..." But with every added mod variety grows, and we have to rewrite polarities to be able at least try new possible builds.

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On 2020-11-26 at 1:57 AM, TheLexiConArtist said:

The polarity system was designed with improving flexibility in mind. In theory, you should never have needed to polarise yourself into a corner with no slots un-polarised.

Of course, now it's horribly outdated, with Primed Mods, Riven Mods, entire additional slots (WF&Weapon Exilus, Necramechs) and other new expensive selections all vying for moire and bigger pieces of the pie.

It is now effectively serving the opposite of its design intent. It's become so obligatory to polarise excessively it's limiting players now. Imagine for a minute that we didn't just have a brick of so many obliged mods for output, or for another example, say more build-alternative things like Condition Overload get introduced but whoopsie they're filling in Vazarin polarity, or worse Zenurik or Unairu which is typically otherwise unused.

Two problems arise:
1) To use the new mods on existing builds, a player's previous investments are wasted (overwriting polarity/ies).
2) If using the new mods, the item no longer has options to build differently. They're locked into narrow build options.

There's a pretty clear problem when players are building duplicates just to be able to have different builds. The different configs obviously aren't enough, because the polarity system is limiting.

Also speaking in business sense, Forma bundles may likely be a big platinum seller for DE, but with the right system players would be encouraged to use more forma, without it being 'wasteful' investment as in problem 1 or locking them in per problem 2. There's probably a lot of players like myself who generally half-polarise at most, because of the flexibility and futureproofing it allows (at the cost of higher minmaxing) - 90% of 10 options beats 100% of 2 in my book.

 

OP's solution isn't the best business sense because it just puts the hard limit on ~8 forma (less any pre-polarised) and doesn't make special account for Umbral. But the system does need revisiting - letting people unlock polarities by X number of Y type through normal means, but being able to choose to use or not use them as needed would be the most preserving of current mechanisms, accessibility and opportunity cost, while bringing back the identity of the system and fixing those two main problems. Also, DE gets more forma bundles sold. There's validity in function for Forma investments up to 8 of each polarity, which is a lot more per-item than current 'set and forget' polarisation.

Oh no with my idea you'd have to polarize pre polarized slots. 

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On 2020-11-25 at 3:19 PM, Voltage said:

No, it shouldn't. That creates a trivial environment for building weapons with mods. The polarity system creates player choice. Sure, many builds are cookie-cutter due to the way some specific mods work, but there are choices players are forced to make, especially when Riven Mods, Primed Cryo Rounds, Exilus, or some Naramon polarity mods come into play. All slots being universal would remove this forced choice and make it too trivial.

Yes it should, player choice is an illusion as we will just have to reforma the thing anyways. Making them all universal after you put the work in would just save time. Player choice is knowing how to mod, which arcanes to use, and anything else that can improve a build. Polarity choice is clearly just meant to consume time. 

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