Devstream: 149 Overview [11/27/2020]

[Torbamf]

I bet them moving the update to next year won't matter much, it will still be a buggy, grindy mess with no fun to be had.

[CuChulainnWD]

21 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Lets be realistic. New content brings more revenue than fixing existing content. Of course new content will always be priority. 

Is that really true anymore? Seems to me after each new update, people leave like rats off a sinking ship. Why? Because we have beaten the fix the old $hit drum to shreds, and we don't care anymore.

Maybe if DE did take the hint and fixed, updated and FINISHED old content to have continuity, replay-ability and some challenge, people might come back. They've beaten the new content horse to death. It ain't cutting it.

[DrivaMain]

1 hour ago, CuChulainnWD said:

Is that really true anymore? Seems to me after each new update, people leave like rats off a sinking ship. Why? Because we have beaten the fix the old $hit drum to shreds, and we don't care anymore.

Maybe if DE did take the hint and fixed, updated and FINISHED old content to have continuity, replay-ability and some challenge, people might come back. They've beaten the new content horse to death. It ain't cutting it.

When Warframe Revised got released in March peak player count is around 88k players and 52k average player count. When Scarlet Spear (new content) is up in April average player count is 56k, a 4k increase and peak is at 94k, a 6k increase. This is only one example tho.

So yes, new content always brings more players in than revising old content. 

[CuChulainnWD]

1 minute ago, DrivaMain said:

When Warframe Revised got released in March peak player count is around 88k players and 52k average player count. When Scarlet Spear (new content) is up in April average player count is 56k, a 4k increase and peak is at 94k, a 6k increase. This is only one example tho.

So yes, new content always brings more players in than revising old content. 

But it does not bring new money, or keep them playing does it? Peaks, then plummets precipitously.  Warframe is barely in the Top 20 of the steam charts, and has been like that since the disastrous Rail Jack release. Previous to that Warframe could consistently brag about being in the top 10.

[DrivaMain]

Just now, CuChulainnWD said:

But it does not bring new money, or keep them playing does it? Peaks, then plummets precipitously.  Warframe is barely in the Top 20 of the steam charts, and has been like that since the disastrous Rail Jack release. Previous to that Warframe could consistently brag about being in the top 10.

Warframe is a game that is played on short bursts. Most of it's players only comes during the first two weeks of updates and then take a break until the next update or between that period players do "Log in -> Do Dailies like Sorties, nightwave, steel path alerts, crack a few relics -> Log off" which only takes around 30 minutes or less to do.

FYI, when HOD launched warframe reached it's new peak which is 154k players. 

[Joezone619]

infested go brrr

[White_Matter]

3 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Warframe is a game that is played on short bursts. Most of it's players only comes during the first two weeks of updates and then take a break until the next update or between that period players do "Log in -> Do Dailies like Sorties, nightwave, steel path alerts, crack a few relics -> Log off" which only takes around 30 minutes or less to do.

FYI, when HOD launched warframe reached it's new peak which is 154k players. 

Sad but true.

WF's biggest problem has been retaining the old playerbase while adding new. Peaks in short bursts during major content updates, but after a short while it falls really hard. 

And seeing the Development strategies, you can see that it is also acknowledged by the Devs. You may argue that they are doing the smart thing, but definitely not the right thing.

[DrivaMain]

1 minute ago, White_Matter said:

WF's biggest problem has been retaining the old playerbase while adding new. Peaks in short bursts during major content updates, but after a short while it falls really hard. 

They can't retain old players because DE is scared challenging it's casual majority with new content. They always screamed at DE to make it easier.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

On 2020-11-28 at 5:51 AM, Otaku_Hyen said:

I was a little bit away just came back recently. Thanks Mako the infos!

welcome back and glad it helps

[Loza03]

On 2020-11-28 at 11:29 PM, DrivaMain said:

FYI, when HOD launched warframe reached it's new peak which is 154k players. 

That's not true!

154K players was on August 1st - Heart of Deimos was August 25th. Whilst the numbers are no longer as accurate (I assume Steam chart culls the details of older time periods), the data points for September put it at about 90K, 74K trough, five days after.

August 1st, that spike, occured during Tennocon. Which, if you remember, had an online component that players needed to be logged in for.

In other words, the August 154K spike is an outlier and should not be counted.

[Leqesai]

Really, DE? You are fixing the pit monster rewards based on feedback that they arent good?

Give me a freaking break. There are no rewards for the pit monster puzzle other than lucent orbs (which spawn commonly all over deimos...)

This year I think it has become abundantly clear that DE should be rebranded BSE.

[Wrathz0]

On 2020-11-28 at 6:29 PM, DrivaMain said:

Warframe is a game that is played on short bursts. Most of it's players only comes during the first two weeks of updates and then take a break until the next update or between that period players do "Log in -> Do Dailies like Sorties, nightwave, steel path alerts, crack a few relics -> Log off" which only takes around 30 minutes or less to do.

FYI, when HOD launched warframe reached it's new peak which is 154k players. 

Sir please research better. End of July till August 1 was for Tennocon and peak rose cause of in-game log in event to claim rewards it was not for Deimos. Deimos released around August 25th, it might have been nearly 100k but it was not for Warframe's all time peak of 154k.

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

On 2020-11-28 at 9:23 PM, anarchy753 said:

Major update not being received well? Time for a sound devstream!

Go look at the likes to dislikes on there update trailer  1.4 likes to 2.1 dislikes  oof ..   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJi_CYr_Ebs 

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, (PSN)SolarPhantom82 said:

Go look at the likes to dislikes on there update trailer  1.4 likes to 2.1 dislikes  oof ..  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJi_CYr_Ebs

Oh, wow.

Granted, the Warframe community (or at least the forums) always tends to get particularly riled up this time of year, but still, that's disconcerting.

[DrivaMain]

56 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Oh, wow.

Granted, the Warframe community (or at least the forums) always tends to get particularly riled up this time of year, but still, that's disconcerting.

It's a chain reaction. Some group of people probably disliked it substantially and then other people will just blindly doing the same thing. Just like Youtube Rewind.

[ValinorAtani]

Am 29.11.2020 um 00:29 schrieb DrivaMain:

Warframe is a game that is played on short bursts. Most of it's players only comes during the first two weeks of updates and then take a break until the next update or between that period players do "Log in -> Do Dailies like Sorties, nightwave, steel path alerts, crack a few relics -> Log off" which only takes around 30 minutes or less to do.

FYI, when HOD launched warframe reached it's new peak which is 154k players. 

Even the so called short bursts have a significant decrease in players

Let us compare the Quarter Peak Players (as per steamcharts) for the last 2 years since Fortuna was released (and yes the 3. Orb is still missing.... 2 years later ....):

Quarter last year & actual		Peak Players changes to last quarter
Q1/18	Q1/19	16,81%
Q2/18	Q2/19	-2,82%
Q3/18	Q3/19	-13,01%
Q4/18	Q4/19	-27,42%
Q1/19	Q1/20	-19,73%
Q2/19	Q2/20	-9,70%
Q3/19	Q3/20	11,65%
Q4/19	Q4/20	-10,73%

Please note within Q3/20 there was the Stream Boost Event / "Forced" Login Participation called Tennocon. So Q3/20 is simply an outlier.

Funny thing is even the average player numbers look mostly the same not only the peak ones.

And If above mentioned numbers from steamchart will have a similar look on Non-Steam Accounts and Consoles too I would call that DE is in big trouble.

[ChaoticEdge]

On 2020-11-27 at 2:07 PM, (XBOX)EternalDrk Mako said:

 

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o

Larvo whatever he is holding start remind me look like a bong... u know one thous smoking one with putting weed into it.  Anyway it is not illegal say weed or either have one for U.S.A said weed is now legal long time ago so, you can't criticize me for that.

The reason why I said it look like a bong well...

Spoiler

currently not my fault when I 1st thought of right away with that.  maybe DE saw my meme that relate to oberon being the weed maker

Spoiler

all I am going say

Spoiler

 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

Larvo whatever he is holding start remind me look like a bong... u know one thous smoking one with putting weed into it.  Anyway it is not illegal say weed or either have one for U.S.A said weed is now legal long time ago so, you can't criticize me for that.

The reason why I said it look like a bong well...

  Hide contents

currently not my fault when I 1st thought of right away with that.  maybe DE saw my meme that relate to oberon being the weed maker

  Hide contents

all I am going say

  Hide contents

 

There's nothing to criticize you for in the first place. Marijuana prohibition was about the cotton industry monopolizing the economy and racism. 

Marijuana is a plant grown naturally and has so many beneficial uses you could list them forever.

Welcome to propaganda 101, where people were taught marijuana was bad while abusing man-made pharmacy made pills and convincing you getting wasted and watching people die from DUIs was better.

[Patomonya]

Thank you for the recap Mako!

Am I the only one super excited for Lavos? An alchemy themed Warframe is something I've unknowingly wanted for so long. Hopefully the skill set is cool/fun/good. Either way, looking forward to it!

[(PSN)Yggranya]

On 2020-11-29 at 1:38 AM, DrivaMain said:

They can't retain old players because DE is scared challenging it's casual majority with new content. They always screamed at DE to make it easier.

Ah, so the "casuals ruined it!" again, eh? I could just put "lol" here but that wouldn't really convey my amusement. So here goes: hahahahaha aaaahahahahah AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

I could, again, tell you why the majority matters and the wannabe hardcore people should be ignored, but you, like everyone like you will just ignore it like nobody ever told you the obvious before. *shrug*

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

23 minutes ago, (PSN)Yggranya said:

Ah, so the "casuals ruined it!" again, eh? I could just put "lol" here but that wouldn't really covey my amusement. So here goes: hahahahaha aaaahahahahah AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

I could, again, tell you why the majority matters and the wannabe hardcore people should be ignored, but you, like everyone like you will just ignore it like nobody ever told you the obvious before. *shrug*

When you cater to the lowest common denominator, your product will eventually reflect that. The majority matters, yes, but changing your game (or anything really) to be easily accessible to the masses tends to devalue the game, as it waters it down to a level where even a child could play it with little or no difficulty. It really does "ruin" the product, and sure you could always just say "go play Dark Souls or Sekiro for difficulty", but you'll fail to address the fact that people play Warframe because it's Warframe. Warframe has been on a decline, that's undeniable, and while there are a number of contributing factors, the casualization of the game is definitely a recurrent complaint from a steadily increasing number of players. With how unhappy people have been (even before the number of Covidelays), you can no longer write this portion of the community off as merely a "vocal minority."

 

Apologies for going off topic.

[ChaoticEdge]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

There's nothing to criticize you for in the first place. Marijuana prohibition was about the cotton industry monopolizing the economy and racism. 

Marijuana is a plant grown naturally and has so many beneficial uses you could list them forever.

Welcome to propaganda 101, where people were taught marijuana was bad while abusing man-made pharmacy made pills and convincing you getting wasted and watching people die from DUIs was better.

That is true, but sometime meme can act like propaganda like the hitler meme or the deus vult meme then somehow they were taken serious from ppl who took it seriously to do it in action.  Sometime, our words may cause future effect for others to be effected by simple memes for great chaos could surge heavy in somewhat can spark a desire do a wrong me and somehow they found themselves doing that meme in real life.  I think we acted according in ways express of DE do minor things wrong for we could of thought we are doing "its ok meme" but sometime we don't know what could do may harm the person or tainted them in such.  Then again, sometime meme can be used for good sometime and some are used for not good memes

Spoiler

 

I guess sometime I question do we need time reflect our meme power or just get a kick rest the day doing  and giggles for understand the world may do it but the person will choose such wise may question themselves have they done for wrong their action.  Hopefully, I think we the communities sometime must meditate in some point realized how we are effecting each others for slowly realizing the some the return of toxic players are starting demanding things out the dev temp to trick them in somewhat.  Also I hope that the guys don't get sobber on his job, I think he really needs help.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Yggranya said:

Ah, so the "casuals ruined it!" again, eh? I could just put "lol" here but that wouldn't really convey my amusement. So here goes: hahahahaha aaaahahahahah AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

I could, again, tell you why the majority matters and the wannabe hardcore people should be ignored, but you, like everyone like you will just ignore it like nobody ever told you the obvious before. *shrug*

To further expound upon who already replied to you: there's nothing wrong with being casual. It's not a dirty word. I used to call myself the "casual elitist" because I used to be a "hardcore gamer" doing multiple hour long boss fights and raids, farming actual rare drops etc. But you have your fun and realize how silly that stuff is. 

But people saying "I can't use Revenant because he's too complicated and takes too many steps to use Reave" is what people mean when they talk about people watering down the game. 

It's a real thing where some people put no effort in, then blame the game. 

Playing any game requires you to learn some basic things yourself, just like basically anything in life. I can't go buy a lawnmower, chop my hand off my sticking it in a running motor and then blame the company. It was up to me to read the instructions provided and use the lawnmower properly. 

[DrivaMain]

1 hour ago, (PSN)The1stAzrael said:

The majority matters, yes, but changing your game (or anything really) to be easily accessible to the masses tends to devalue the game, as it waters it down to a level where even a child could play it with little or no difficulty. It really does "ruin" the product, and sure you could always just say "go play Dark Souls or Sekiro for difficulty", but you'll fail to address the fact that people play Warframe because it's Warframe.

Warframe is for casuals since they retired solar rails, it killed any hope for competitive content. I have seen the trend for a while now.

1. DE releases challenging content.

2. Lots of players complained it's too hard.

3. DE listened and took action.

It happened to manics, It happened to Fortuna, it happened to Profit Taker, it happened to The Wolf, and it happened to Railjack.

When Nihil was released the same casuals complained they can't steam roll it like your average warframe boss. But since this is a one and done boss DE may let this slide.

[killerJoke66]

23 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Warframe is for casuals since they retired solar rails, it killed any hope for competitive content. I have seen the trend for a while now.

1. DE releases challenging content.

2. Lots of players complained it's too hard.

3. DE listened and took action.

It happened to manics, It happened to Fortuna, it happened to Profit Taker, it happened to The Wolf, and it happened to Railjack.

When Nihil was released the same casuals complained they can't steam roll it like your average warframe boss. But since this is a one and done boss DE may let this slide.

 I can see they why nerfed arbies(even tho i'd say they over-nerfed it) back then but cmon peeps fortuna wasnt that hard .. like seriously it was just not , i just dont simply understand if someone doesnt want to look up for a game on how to have better gear or up their mechenics and expect to beat stuff .. like theres a nullifer just grab a fire rate focused secondary , is there multiple guys jumping on you ? use archwing a bit since its open world idk  , what do they get from beating poor enemies over and over for okay rewards , its just mind-boggling to me . 

I used to blame DE(still do on certain things but not as hard as 1-2 year before)  but i cant legit do that after those repeated enemy nerfs upon community's outrage , they just have no choice but to water the game down for them and its like 3 times 4 times happened already ? where they release suprisingly not so trash enemies and you watch them get watered down right after ..