Warframe prime MR changes; do we need to add MR cap higher?

[caldrilan]

tons of ppl i saw are like; why get an warframe like mesa, titania or alike if i can go and buy the prime cheap; or why bother with the non-prime version and even think to try? like most the hard/annoying ones, and stop at mr 18 or less; cause of lost interest or no need at all to keep going; so maybe a change should be made if not this year maybe next but, all starts by little things

 

PD; if want f up and nerf some weapons reduce follow up to 0.2 less or remove it xd who knows if works

[(XBOX)CI shadow2397]

1 minute ago, caldrilan said:

tons of ppl i saw are like; why get an warframe like mesa, titania or alike if i can go and buy the prime cheap; or why bother with the non-prime version and even think to try? like most the hard/annoying ones, and stop at mr 18 or less; cause of lost interest or no need at all to keep going; so maybe a change should be made if not this year maybe next but, all starts by little things

 

PD; if want f up and nerf some weapons reduce follow up to 0.2 less or remove it xd who knows if works

Because most of the people who say that are rich or veterans who actually have the plat to buy them. I literally couldn’t buy a frame until Christmas last year. 

[kgabor]

Sure, but if mastery ranks had any meaning, who would buy all those primes?

The people who would just buy their way through the game otherwise would just find a grindwall in front of them and would be less likely to spend money. (unless you assume it's reasonable to buy all the mr items to reach that point)

[(PSN)Deeceem]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb (XBOX)CI shadow2397:

Because most of the people who say that are rich or veterans who actually have the plat to buy them. I literally couldn’t buy a frame until Christmas last year. 

I mean, I'd probably qualify as a "veteran" and I said that. Not because I am plat-rich but because the people buying my prime frame sets are like MR5 to MR10 or something like that. Same goes for public missions where low MR players seem to be playing prime frames quite often.

Don't get me wrong. I generally don't care but the whole thing OP talks about is not a mean rich veteran myth put in the world for some nefarious reason. It's observation and experience with how other lower MR people go about progressing through regular and prime frames and they do skip regular ones and they do buy prime frames. Not everyone but also not noone.

Simple as that.

[Voltage]

Prime Warframes became much more accessible and easy to farm with the introduction of Fissures in 2016 with Specters of the Rail. Everyone praised DE for heavily reducing the grind for Prime Warframes, but you now have a system where many Prime Warframes who are not vaulted are much easier to farm than their normal counterpart (for the most part). Low level fissures dropping enhanced gear has created an imbalance in progression and that's just the way it is. The ease of farming also created loads of supply for trading, and this makes the price of any Prime quite cheap. The only Warframes that hold any strong value are vaulted for a long time.

[ReddyDisco]

ugh...no

[Angwah]

Eh, I skipped the normal frames and went straight for the primes when I started.

The fissures give you forma's and prime parts, whatever you don't need you can trade for ducats and platinum. When you start all of this is very, _very_ needed. Even with this option buying a Prime Access or something similar is enticing, but without it it would become for all practical purposes mandatory (that or having a Clan/friends who just give you the stuff for free).

Anyway, I got the regular frames in the end to feed to the Helminth and MR...

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, eisKripp said:

And that is good, do you want early vaults and only 2/4 prime sets avaible to farm until next rotation? That would only make the rich players richer in plat.

The Fissure system changed pretty much nothing about the Vaulting system. Likewise, Towers in the Void made Prime Access feel more special and like an earned upgrade and more valuable to the Arsenal. Prime Access now is like a Tenno Reinforcment from back then. It's mostly just Mastery now that you can finish in a few hours of farming on the first day of the Access. 

Just because something is cheaper doesn't mean it's inherently a healthier mechanic for the game. Eidolons and now Scarlet Spear have devalued Arcane Enhancements, Fissures devalued Prime Access, and virtually anything over time is quite devalued with the only real exception being Riven Mods. It's created an environment where there is really nothing that sets your gear apart from another player, and it makes nothing really special or unique as an item. This is why Riven Mods get so much hate; because they are the only item that really accomplishes this in modern-day Warframe and good Rivens are not very accessible to most players.

I feel the Fissure system was a short-sighted solution to the Prime Parts system, and now it's an out of hand mess at 300+ unique Relics with a massive backlog of Vaulted Prime items and virtually no challenge or incentive when farming.

[BahamutKaiser]

I don't think this is a rational problem. The Helminth system requires vanilla frames, and if you've obtained a frame with a variant, Ranking them up before consuming them is just basic wisdom. If course, if they don't care about MR or infusion options, they can just skip it. But, ya know, they don't have to follow the linear path to progression, nor do they need the rewards of they aren't compelling enough. 

[(XBOX)CI shadow2397]

11 hours ago, (PSN)Deeceem said:

I mean, I'd probably qualify as a "veteran" and I said that. Not because I am plat-rich but because the people buying my prime frame sets are like MR5 to MR10 or something like that. Same goes for public missions where low MR players seem to be playing prime frames quite often.

Don't get me wrong. I generally don't care but the whole thing OP talks about is not a mean rich veteran myth put in the world for some nefarious reason. It's observation and experience with how other lower MR people go about progressing through regular and prime frames and they do skip regular ones and they do buy prime frames. Not everyone but also not noone.

Simple as that.

I mean the only way they have frames like that is through prime access because a lot of the time I see that they have a weapon that they don’t have the mr to use

[(PSN)Deeceem]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb (XBOX)CI shadow2397:

I mean the only way they have frames like that is through prime access because a lot of the time I see that they have a weapon that they don’t have the mr to use

That wasn't the point. How they buy primes is none of my business. My point was that low MR players buying prime frames isn't made up by veterans because they have too much plat.

[xombob89]

I must admit it always bothered me that prime warframes are so much easier to get than regular ones. Youd think theyd be an endgame thing you can get, but instead its more likely new player has a prime than normal one especially if its unvaulted one. In the early days I used to think how cool and unique it is I have a "rare prime" then realized anyone can buy them at any point and it lost all glory. 

Oh well. 

[IIDMOII]

What purpose does an MR gate serve for a newer player? None. Whatsoever. Other than an arbitrary number preventing them from getting good gear until they grind other unwanted gear first?

It's a pointless and archaic system. Let people use the gear they want. 

Its not like a prime version of a frame is somehow more technically complex to play. Its 4 buttons. A monkey could figure it all out in one sitting. 

I personally like that this game doesnt have that elitist douchebag component to it. We get enough of that for the entire industry from games like wow and destiny. 

[BDMblue]

Even if your F2P a lot of prime frames are just easier to farm with relics. Most take 2-3 hours. You can cut that down to an hour if you just passively get relics from your syndicate.

so 2-3 hours for a better frame vs limbos quest or chroma. 

 

The normal frames being harder to get than primes is the problem not people throwing money at it. Though if people want to throw money at DE for them that’s fine too I support that.

[DrivaMain]

17 hours ago, Voltage said:

The Fissure system changed pretty much nothing about the Vaulting system. Likewise, Towers in the Void made Prime Access feel more special and like an earned upgrade and more valuable to the Arsenal. Prime Access now is like a Tenno Reinforcment from back then. It's mostly just Mastery now that you can finish in a few hours of farming on the first day of the Access. 

I don't see suffering through RNG is "Special". I am glad Void Keys are gone. If it still exist I would have quit the game long ago because it demands you to run hours of a mission to get a single prime part. Also, do you know that rare prime parts used to have 2% Drop chance at Rotation C?

[Voltage]

16 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

I don't see suffering through RNG is "Special". I am glad Void Keys are gone. If it still exist I would have quit the game long ago because it demands you to run hours of a mission to get a single prime part. Also, do you know that rare prime parts used to have 2% Drop chance at Rotation C?

Ah yes, because spending time on a game must be suffering. If you don't enjoy grinding in Warframe, then do you really enjoy the game? I don't want to play a reward simulator where you need to really try to lose. Farming gear is a keystone to this game's success. I don't mind drop chances being low if they stay that way, and I also don't mind relatively high drop chances if they stay that way. However, the game really doesn't care about respecting the initial pacing of any content anymore.

There is no consideration for the length of time it takes to get anything out of a new mission, and this trend is slowly killing the enthusiasm to grind new items (Looking at you Deimos Arcana). Braton Vandal as a Twitch drop, Blazing Step added to the Arbiters of Hexis Arbitration store, Arcanes added to Eidolons and then Scarlet Spear, and probably dozens of other examples over the last few years clearly show that the "special" aspect of many items is honestly not even there.

Basically every old player knows to not play new content anymore because of the lack of thought towards grind pacing. When I comment on DE posts or give feedback, I just accelerate the process so I do not burn myself more than I do as an early adopter of content. The way grind feels in Warframe from an emotional standpoint has gotten extremely negative from this playerbase, and I just can't agree that less grind = better game. Meaningful grind is what makes Warframe fun. The grind for Primes was a meaningful grind that gave meaningful upgrades. That is really no longer the case. I don't know about you, but farming low level Fissures doesn't scream "meaningful" at me.

There needs to be consideration for time spent, pacing, and how the time spent feels towards a player. However, I think one of the other major elephants in the room is the general audience for this game that has been conditioned with the expectation of success quickly and no consequence to failure. That's more meta-complaint territory though even if it is true.

The situation with this game has gotten unbelievably predictable.

[DrivaMain]

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

There is no consideration for the length of time it takes to get anything out of a new mission, and this trend is slowly killing the enthusiasm to grind new items (Looking at you Deimos Arcana). Braton Vandal as a Twitch drop, Blazing Step added to the Arbiters of Hexis Arbitration store, Arcanes added to Eidolons and then Scarlet Spear, and probably dozens of other examples over the last few years clearly show that the "special" aspect of many items is honestly not even there.

DE has to think about the new players. If DE kept the drop chance or acquisition method the same for years new players will be scared to try out Warframe and stuck with it because of it's huge grindwall and that will kill the game. They are the most likely player type to spend money after all. 

Grinding now gives you early access nothing more.