Just a fun thought regarding Duviri Paradox if it ever comes

[Formous]

So it's always been in my mind that the Tenno are probably not in their true bodies anymore. Being timeless demons of the void instead, tied to original bodies yet in the void.  When the Duviri paradox trailer showed a young tenno and their adult form, it kinda struck me that this might be true. Do you guys all think that Duviri might attempt to reunite our current Tennos with their mortal shells? And would this be enhancement of power? Or a loss of it?  I kinda am curious about seeing who my tenno would grow up to be as a adult woman, and what other powers the void might enable.  For me, it would be kinda fun to enter a mission as this powerful Psionic (not Nyx. Nyx died when she got a half assed rework), and walk through the mission like some kind of Mr. X.

 

dreams I know.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

17 minutes ago, Formous said:

So it's always been in my mind that the Tenno are probably not in their true bodies anymore. Being timeless demons of the void instead, tied to original bodies yet in the void.  When the Duviri paradox trailer showed a young tenno and their adult form, it kinda struck me that this might be true. Do you guys all think that Duviri might attempt to reunite our current Tennos with their mortal shells? And would this be enhancement of power? Or a loss of it?  I kinda am curious about seeing who my tenno would grow up to be as a adult woman, and what other powers the void might enable.  For me, it would be kinda fun to enter a mission as this powerful Psionic (not Nyx. Nyx died when she got a half assed rework), and walk through the mission like some kind of Mr. X.

 

dreams I know.

Nope. Considering we are 100% in our own bodies.

According to the lore, the Zariman Ten Zero (Spaceship) was filled with both adults and children when it entered the Void. As it was the 1st ship to enter the void (albeit accidentally), nobody knew what would happen. Turns out, it turned all the Adults insane and they slaughtered each other. The children kept their sanity and also gained Void Powers. Otherwise dubbed Tenno, after the (Zariman) Ten Oh.

No Adult survived, and although we may be those Adults children, we were never Adults ourselves. We're immortal ageless children. Which is most likely where the "Paradox" element kicks in. A Paradox being something that shouldn't/can't happen, most associated with Temporal Theories (Time Travel). The idea of our Tenno aging is itself the Paradox, and whatever Duviri is, is most likely the catalyst.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

3 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

The idea of our Tenno aging is itself the Paradox, and whatever Duviri is, is most likely the catalyst.

inb4 the Quest itself is just a race against time to stop ourselves aging into death, ora tleast becoming a cranky-a$$ old man/woman

"look at these young Tenno, with their Brammas and their Saryns! back in my day all we had was a Lato and a Skana. and the Lato didn't even have bullets! YOU KIDS DON'T KNOW HOW GOOD YOU'VE GOT IT! WHERE'S MY TEETH! WHAT?"

[TARINunit9]

5 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

 Considering we are Otherwise dubbed Tenno, after the (Zariman) Ten Oh.

Which was always just DE trying to justify their fetish for foreign language ("tennōh" is one of two Japanese words for "emperor"). Which I wouldn't normally tease them by pointing it out, except they never did it for anything else; "Balor Formorian" is a reference to the Irish folklore, but suddenly Tenno can't just be a reference to Japan?

[Sir-Swerving]

Almost certain Duviri Paradox will push a complete operator overhaul. Guessing some part of the Tenno 'Their Humanity' was left dormant in the void acting as their anchor and source of power, Eventually over the course of the grinding out the new zone "Strengthening their void connection" they can finally reach void puberty and sync with their other self harmoniously.

[-Krism-]

6 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

As it was the 1st ship to enter the void (albeit accidentally)

Not so sure, remember that the Zariman 10-0 was a military ship that was supposed to be the first experiment in void transportation. Why would it have children on it?

Quote:

"The meeting was over. When Kaleen reached the door she twisted out of his grip and shot back, 'Why would you do that? Why did you put children on a military ship?'

'We didn't. That would violate procedure.'"

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

6 hours ago, Ailia_Grimm said:

Not so sure, remember that the Zariman 10-0 was a military ship that was supposed to be the first experiment in void transportation. Why would it have children on it?

Quote:

"The meeting was over. When Kaleen reached the door she twisted out of his grip and shot back, 'Why would you do that? Why did you put children on a military ship?'

'We didn't. That would violate procedure.'"

Well, considering the Orokin's tendency to just be awful in general, I have a feeling that statement is more them mocking Kaleen. I don't think it's far fetched to assume they just said that to keep the public out of the loop, as the Operators and what became of the Zariman were pretty much kept secret. It's implied to have been something done on purpose literally just to see what would happen, especially since they sabotaged the ship. I imagine they lied to let the experiment happen at all, if any of the Orokin even cared enough to question the ethical aspects of the experiment.
 

Replay the War Within again, there's multiple quotes detailing how the accident was covered up, how there were adults and children on the ship (your Operators own parents were on it for example), etc.

 

[BahamutKaiser]

My theory is that it's a split timeline, the Ten Zero incident happened differently and the children grew up in a different reality, than changed time and sent their younger selves into a different future while themselves staying in a ruined future. The pod at the bottom of the Railjack makes statements about how you survived because it rescued you. 

It's an interesting way to maintain the current continuity of the game while also presenting an alternate continuity where the Orokin never collapsed, the Ten Zero reached its destination and the sentients never rose up and attacked. With a dual continuity they can expand the Corrupted faction into a live Orokin faction with functioning Dax warriors and Executor leaders.

Since Deimos, the Sentient and Corrupted factions are the only ones left to expand. Sentients are currently in development, so maybe they'll do Corrupted next. After that, it's something original, or some expression of "the man in the wall", or maybe further iteration of the existing factions. With an actual Orokin faction, you could see a variety of the Corrupted or otherwise enslaved existing factions, and even, other warframes, things like Stalker and Acolytes, or just regular Frames as opponents. 

A regular frame faction like Acolytes could be another faction as well, it's a little weak that the story includes so little about the interaction of Tenno themselves in society. Having a community of Tenno, or independent Tenno and Warframes that are not living symbiotically would create a more robust society. 

[-Krism-]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

Well, considering the Orokin's tendency to just be awful in general, I have a feeling that statement is more them mocking Kaleen. I don't think it's far fetched to assume they just said that to keep the public out of the loop, as the Operators and what became of the Zariman were pretty much kept secret. It's implied to have been something done on purpose literally just to see what would happen, especially since they sabotaged the ship. I imagine they lied to let the experiment happen at all, if any of the Orokin even cared enough to question the ethical aspects of the experiment.
 

Replay the War Within again, there's multiple quotes detailing how the accident was covered up, how there were adults and children on the ship (your Operators own parents were on it for example), etc.

 

No, that was exactly my point

@(PSN)MYKK678said it was an accident, I just corrected them 

[(XBOX)CI shadow2397]

18 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Nope. Considering we are 100% in our own bodies.

According to the lore, the Zariman Ten Zero (Spaceship) was filled with both adults and children when it entered the Void. As it was the 1st ship to enter the void (albeit accidentally), nobody knew what would happen. Turns out, it turned all the Adults insane and they slaughtered each other. The children kept their sanity and also gained Void Powers. Otherwise dubbed Tenno, after the (Zariman) Ten Oh.

No Adult survived, and although we may be those Adults children, we were never Adults ourselves. We're immortal ageless children. Which is most likely where the "Paradox" element kicks in. A Paradox being something that shouldn't/can't happen, most associated with Temporal Theories (Time Travel). The idea of our Tenno aging is itself the Paradox, and whatever Duviri is, is most likely the catalyst.

Well the void in itself is a giant most likely living paradox so yeah. Wally doesn’t like following rules so he makes things up as he  goes. It’s probably that all of Duviri is a huge paradox and a cool looking one at that. I can’t wait to see how DE plays it out.

13 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Which was always just DE trying to justify their fetish for foreign language ("tennōh" is one of two Japanese words for "emperor"). Which I wouldn't normally tease them by pointing it out, except they never did it for anything else; "Balor Formorian" is a reference to the Irish folklore, but suddenly Tenno can't just be a reference to Japan?

It is. Tenno is a reference to japan

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)CI shadow2397 said:

It is. Tenno is a reference to japan

But why feel a need to make an excuse for it when they have never done that for anything else?

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

I liked that idea someone said of our operator being eternally young, but then this paradox happens,  and then you asked what powers would our older self have???

What if during this paradox through sheer force of will we learn to change our physical form to match how we feel emotionally.  We go in an immortal kid but inside we change and when we come out we are something different.  Immortal but not stuck in time..

-----------------------------------

On another note what will happen to us in the future....  for starters you need to look at the lore revealed down in Loids area of the Entrati.   That shows what happens when adults come into contact with the void,  Probably what happened on the Zariman.   We as kids already came into contact with the void but hasnt been talked about much.   Did we create evil dopplegangers??  Seems like we did...  

But anyways my point is the void looks like it triggers some internal battle.   Our future selves could either master it and become gods and saviors or succumb to it and become Demons and Destroyers...   

Another thought about our future selves is that our immortality is due to the orokins Kuva... first of all they are making all kinds of dif kuva... red and blue.... there could be more....   but what could happen is that some point in the future when we think our fight is over... we purge the kuva from our systems so we can grow old and die.  Maybe there are consequences to taking Kuva....   For instance going crazy from the void,  becoming inhuman like the orokin over the loss of the fear of death.  So maybe we purge it from our systems as a preventative measure down the line..

--------------------------------------

Right now we are virtual warriors.   We wage war through our connection to our warframes.   Another possible future could be that our connection is destroyed/interrupted.  This forces us to become warriors in the flesh like Teshin.  

=====================

Personally I hope for more mature bodies and new void powers after Duviri.  But im down for whatever heh.  

[bad4youLT]

21 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

We're immortal ageless children. 

We're not , did you forget Chains of Harrow ? Rell was one of us even tho he was an outcast , he had no access to cryo sleep to artificaily overexten hes life span so he orderd hes fallowers to transferance loop hes consciousness into hes warframe sence he would eventualy die from old age .

[(PSN)MYKK678]

1 hour ago, bad4youLT said:

We're not , did you forget Chains of Harrow ? Rell was one of us even tho he was an outcast , he had no access to cryo sleep to artificaily overexten hes life span so he orderd hes fallowers to transferance loop hes consciousness into hes warframe sence he would eventualy die from old age .

About 85% of that is right.

Rell was an outcast, as he had difficulty with emotions and attachements so the kids on Ten Zero rejected him. After the Ten Zero incident, Margulis and the Tenno outcast him for making contact with "The Indifference". The precursor to Red Veil took Rell in, not the other way around. But as Rell seemed to be the only one aware of "The Indifference", or as we commonly know it, "The Man in The Wall", the Red Veil precursors took his warnings about it as their main Teachings, which led to Red Veil itself being formed. The precursors to Red Veil were the ones who convinced Rell that if he sacrificed himself, that would keep "The Indifference" from reaching Reality.

Where did you get the idea that he sacrificed himself because of old age?

Also, with regards to our immortality:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/oro

If you've been watching too much Dragonball then let me clarify, immortality is not invincibility.

[bad4youLT]

14 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

 

Where did you get the idea that he sacrificed himself because of old age?

 

Paladinos dialog to Lotus durring the Chains of Harrow quest

 

 

 

 

 

[(PSN)MYKK678]

17 hours ago, Ailia_Grimm said:

Not so sure, remember that the Zariman 10-0 was a military ship that was supposed to be the first experiment in void transportation. Why would it have children on it?

Quote:

"The meeting was over. When Kaleen reached the door she twisted out of his grip and shot back, 'Why would you do that? Why did you put children on a military ship?'

'We didn't. That would violate procedure.'"

To be fair i had to go and re-read some lore again as i was a bit sketchy myself on the details. Been a while since i thought about it.

But yeah, as far as i can tell it was an accident. Its stated that the Zariman Ten Zero, which is the military ship itself, was supposed to test out a "Void Jump". When expanded upon, it was stated that the accident happened when it was making "the fold from Saturn to the Outer Gates". Fold being the main word there. When anyone talks about space travel and "fold", that usually refers to an Einstein-Rosen Bridge, otherwise known as a Wormhole. Bending 2 points in space toward each other by "folding" space, and getting from Point A to B instantly. In other words, the ship was never meant to travel though the Void for a minute or an hour or anything meaningful. The accident was that it got stranded in the space between space, the Void.

As for why there were kids on Zariman Ten Zero is still unknown. Its definitely teased that perhaps the Orokin did it, meaning they sabotaged Zariman Ten Zero themselves, but theres not enough info to say thats definitely true. Right now we could say the kids just snuck onto the wrong ship on the wrong day, and theres just as much evidence of that being true too. We'll probably find out soon.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

11 minutes ago, bad4youLT said:

Paladinos dialog to Lotus durring the Chains of Harrow quest

 

 

 

 

 

Any timestamps or indication what i'm looking for?

Theres no point in me watching videos otherwise.

[bad4youLT]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Any timestamps or indication what i'm looking for?

Theres no point in me watching videos otherwise.

I did put up time stamps, if they dont work youl have to watch it, its around 13.14mins and 14, 44 mins mark.

[bad4youLT]

16 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

 for why there were kids on Zariman Ten Zero is still unknown. Its definitely teased that perhaps the Orokin did it, meaning they sabotaged Zariman Ten Zero themselves, but theres not enough info to say thats definitely true. Right now we could say the kids just snuck onto the wrong ship on the wrong day, and theres just as much evidence of that being true too. We'll probably find out soon.

It was colony ship, zariman 10-0 was supposed to be the first colony in Tau system or atleast thats according to our Lore expert Stallord. 

[(PSN)MYKK678]

14 minutes ago, bad4youLT said:

It was colony ship, zariman 10-0 was supposed to be the first colony in Tau system or atleast thats according to our Lore expert Stallord. 

Im not sure who Stallord is, but they either got their info from a really bad source, or the Zariman Ten Zero was Retconned at some point, which i dont remember happening.

The Zariman Ten Zero has always been referred to as The Military Ship testing out the Void Jump/Space Folding mission, not a Colony Ship. Embers own Codex refers to it as a Military Ship too. As the person i was replying to pointed out, Kaleen questioned why the Orokin put children on the ship, to which they replied they didn't, as it would violate protocol. Children being on the ship wouldn't even be in question if it were a Colony Ship.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

29 minutes ago, bad4youLT said:

I did put up time stamps, if they dont work youl have to watch it, its around 13.14mins and 14, 44 mins mark.

Had a look there. So:

13.14- they're talking about if Veil "preserved him in cryosleep like on Lua". It doesnt actually mention anything about being "old", especially seens as he's very dead at this point. Also, the only reason we've ever clearly been given for Tenno to be put in cryosleep was for the Orokins protection. First because the Tenno killed their rescuers, and then hidden on Lua after Margulis' execution. Cryosleep doesn't actually prove either of our theories right now.

14.44-  This one is interesting though. Talks about how Rell lived this long, and mortality. So Warframe currently has contradictory lore then. For some reason Rell was worried about his mortality, but the oro still exists and is linked to Tenno. Theres only 3 theories this leads to so:

- its contradictory and 1 of them will have to be written out eventually

- Rell's separation from the other Tenno somehow lost him his oro and he became mortal

- Rell's contact with "The Man in The Wall" lost him his oro and he became mortal

[bad4youLT]

6 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Had a look there. So:

13.14- they're talking about if Veil "preserved him in cryosleep like on Lua". It doesnt actually mention anything about being "old", especially seens as he's very dead at this point. Also, the only reason we've ever clearly been given for Tenno to be put in cryosleep was for the Orokins protection. First because the Tenno killed their rescuers, and then hidden on Lua after Margulis' execution. Cryosleep doesn't actually prove either of our theories right now.

14.44-  This one is interesting though. Talks about how Rell lived this long, and mortality. So Warframe currently has contradictory lore then. For some reason Rell was worried about his mortality, but the oro still exists and is linked to Tenno. Theres only 3 theories this leads to so:

- its contradictory and 1 of them will have to be written out eventually

- Rell's separation from the other Tenno somehow lost him his oro and he became mortal

- Rell's contact with "The Man in The Wall" lost him his oro and he became mortal

Not contradicring anything, Oro in warframe universe is soul witch is thats get transferd by kuva into new body, hence how orokin lived forever.

 

The Tenno while having super power and touched by void are still mortal and age as it is told in Chains of Harrow, the 3 key words "cryosleep", "preserve", "mortality" points this out. 

 

I really recomend watching Stallord videos, hes the expert on lore. 

[bad4youLT]

6 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Im not sure who Stallord is, but they either got their info from a really bad source, or the Zariman Ten Zero was Retconned at some point, which i dont remember happening.

The Zariman Ten Zero has always been referred to as The Military Ship testing out the Void Jump/Space Folding mission, not a Colony Ship. Embers own Codex refers to it as a Military Ship too. As the person i was replying to pointed out, Kaleen questioned why the Orokin put children on the ship, to which they replied they didn't, as it would violate protocol. Children being on the ship wouldn't even be in question if it were a Colony Ship.

Stallord is warframe veteran player whos argubly is warframes best lore expert, DE even selfs credited him, zariman in secret was colony ship. 

 

I really recomend visiting hes youtube channel and watching hes "warframe, what we know" videos. 

[Loza03]

On 2020-12-01 at 2:07 AM, Ailia_Grimm said:

"The meeting was over. When Kaleen reached the door she twisted out of his grip and shot back, 'Why would you do that? Why did you put children on a military ship?'

'We didn't. That would violate procedure.'"

They don't specify what they didn't do.

Did they not put children on that military ship?

Or did they put children on it, because it wasn't a military ship?

Since we have multiple accounts of there being children on the ship, then it's more likely that the line is referring to the latter.

 

A series of events that could look similar to this:

Zariman gets sent out as a colony ship. Disappears. Orokin cover it up saying it was a military accident. It gets discovered. Orokin assume there will be no survivors, so they send a salvage team under the pretense of them recovering a military ship. There were, in fact, survivors.

6 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Had a look there. So:

13.14- they're talking about if Veil "preserved him in cryosleep like on Lua". It doesnt actually mention anything about being "old", especially seens as he's very dead at this point. Also, the only reason we've ever clearly been given for Tenno to be put in cryosleep was for the Orokins protection. First because the Tenno killed their rescuers, and then hidden on Lua after Margulis' execution. Cryosleep doesn't actually prove either of our theories right now.

14.44-  This one is interesting though. Talks about how Rell lived this long, and mortality. So Warframe currently has contradictory lore then. For some reason Rell was worried about his mortality, but the oro still exists and is linked to Tenno. Theres only 3 theories this leads to so:

- its contradictory and 1 of them will have to be written out eventually

- Rell's separation from the other Tenno somehow lost him his oro and he became mortal

- Rell's contact with "The Man in The Wall" lost him his oro and he became mortal

I took like this:

Rell figured that his meat-suit would eventually give out. Whether he thought he'd die of old age or be at risk of death from bullets is unclear. Given that he had innate transference still, he somehow did this permanently into Harrow, abandoning his physical form and living purely as a mental state.

 

Oro hasn't been mentioned in the lore since conclave, and a single uncited reference in the Wiki, despite the topics of immortality and continuity showing up several times. Unless it shows up again I'd hold its continued canonicity as highly dubious.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

7 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

Stallord is warframe veteran player whos argubly is warframes best lore expert, DE even selfs credited him, zariman in secret was colony ship. 

 

I really recomend visiting hes youtube channel and watching hes "warframe, what we know" videos. 

Its great to know who Stallord is and all but it still doesn't answer anything. Theres no reference to the Zariman Ten Zero being a colony ship from what i can see. The wiki lists it as the Military Ship chosen to test out the Void Jump drive, taken directly from lore. The codex entry for Ember, written by DE, references it as a Military Ship. There's things in the game directly telling you its a Military Ship. From what i can see, its never once referred to as a colony ship. Right now i could claim it was a space station, and theres as much evidence of that as there is to it being a colony ship.

I'm looking at this with an open mind though, so can you explain what evidence Stallord provided to you to make you believe it was a colony ship?