Just a fun thought regarding Duviri Paradox if it ever comes

[bad4youLT]

2 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Its great to know who Stallord is and all but it still doesn't answer anything. Theres no reference to the Zariman Ten Zero being a colony ship from what i can see. The wiki lists it as the Military Ship chosen to test out the Void Jump drive, taken directly from lore. The codex entry for Ember, written by DE, references it as a Military Ship. There's things in the game directly telling you its a Military Ship. From what i can see, its never once referred to as a colony ship. Right now i could claim it was a space station, and theres as much evidence of that as there is to it being a colony ship.

I'm looking at this with an open mind though, so can you explain what evidence Stallord provided to you to make you believe it was a colony ship?

The whole military ship was just cover up thing, Rell in chains of harrow while talking to hes mother metions going to Tau wich also explains why were was children onboard. 

[-Krism-]

9 hours ago, Loza03 said:

They don't specify what they didn't do.

Did they not put children on that military ship?

Or did they put children on it, because it wasn't a military ship?

Since we have multiple accounts of there being children on the ship, then it's more likely that the line is referring to the latter.

I personally have two theories:

 

1. Someone, most likely Ballas, did put children on the ship because he already knew the void to some extent

But how did no one noticed the missing children, & why the people inside the ship didn't say anything?

 

2. There indeed wasn't any children when the Zariman first got to the void

But they were inside when the ship came back, which is why everyone sounds so confused in the codex entries

 

But maybe I'm completely wrong & it could be even something else entirely

[Loza03]

7 minutes ago, Ailia_Grimm said:

1. Someone, most likely Ballas, did put children on the ship because he already knew the void to some extent

But how did no one noticed the missing children, & why the people inside the ship didn't say anything?

We know their parents were on the ship too because they're referenced pretty heavily, and that they likely had classes (They're referenced in both the Second Dream and Rell comics). Of course, that doesn't entirely remove the possibility they were smuggled on, but it's still pretty hard to hide hundreds or thousands of full families, some teachers and a school on a military vessel, even one as large as that.

10 minutes ago, Ailia_Grimm said:

2. There indeed wasn't any children when the Zariman first got to the void

But they were inside when the ship came back, which is why everyone sounds so confused in the codex entries

My thoughts about this is Occams Razor.

The Tenno remember their childhood aboard the ship and their parents, as does the outcast Rell who didn't go through the therapies the other Tenno did (where any false memories to cover it up would presumably be implanted). So, what - did the void magic up doubles of the children of the existing parents? Why did the parents unanimously decide to attack, and why do the Tenno remember them as losing their minds? The whole family was appeared? Then how come the Military didn't detain or kill the suddenly-appeared families, and why would the void magic adults attack the void magic children? Why wouldn't the Tenno remember this event?

 

At the end of the day, there's too many loose variables if we try to argue that the Zariman was a military vessel first and foremost. The neatest and cleanest answer is that it was a colony ship, and the military designation is either indicating that it was a military-funded but civilian-manned vessel, or that the whole military story was a failed cover-up. 

[-Krism-]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

We know their parents were on the ship too because they're referenced pretty heavily, and that they likely had classes (They're referenced in both the Second Dream and Rell comics). Of course, that doesn't entirely remove the possibility they were smuggled on, but it's still pretty hard to hide hundreds or thousands of full families, some teachers and a school on a military vessel, even one as large as that.

My thoughts about this is Occams Razor.

The Tenno remember their childhood aboard the ship and their parents, as does the outcast Rell who didn't go through the therapies the other Tenno did (where any false memories to cover it up would presumably be implanted). So, what - did the void magic up doubles of the children of the existing parents? Why did the parents unanimously decide to attack, and why do the Tenno remember them as losing their minds? The whole family was appeared? Then how come the Military didn't detain or kill the suddenly-appeared families, and why would the void magic adults attack the void magic children? Why wouldn't the Tenno remember this event?

 

At the end of the day, there's too many loose variables if we try to argue that the Zariman was a military vessel first and foremost. The neatest and cleanest answer is that it was a colony ship, and the military designation is either indicating that it was a military-funded but civilian-manned vessel, or that the whole military story was a failed cover-up. 

You're asking so many questions, but remember that this quest will have a paradox in it. Things not making sense is exactly the correct answer

You're right, we can't know yet, but that's why I just said it was theories

[Reitrix]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

We know their parents were on the ship too because they're referenced pretty heavily, and that they likely had classes (They're referenced in both the Second Dream and Rell comics). Of course, that doesn't entirely remove the possibility they were smuggled on, but it's still pretty hard to hide hundreds or thousands of full families, some teachers and a school on a military vessel, even one as large as that.

My thoughts about this is Occams Razor.

The Tenno remember their childhood aboard the ship and their parents, as does the outcast Rell who didn't go through the therapies the other Tenno did (where any false memories to cover it up would presumably be implanted). So, what - did the void magic up doubles of the children of the existing parents? Why did the parents unanimously decide to attack, and why do the Tenno remember them as losing their minds? The whole family was appeared? Then how come the Military didn't detain or kill the suddenly-appeared families, and why would the void magic adults attack the void magic children? Why wouldn't the Tenno remember this event?

 

At the end of the day, there's too many loose variables if we try to argue that the Zariman was a military vessel first and foremost. The neatest and cleanest answer is that it was a colony ship, and the military designation is either indicating that it was a military-funded but civilian-manned vessel, or that the whole military story was a failed cover-up. 

Not quite. 

Assume for a moment that that it was indeed a military ship with no covert operation in the background and no children. 

The ship begins it's jump, fails and is trapped in the Void.

Now include the known property of the Void where time flows differently within from real space. 

You now have a ship with thousands of adults trapped together with seemingly no way out.

So we have a ship full of adults trapped for 10+ local years but reappears in real space a short time after the initial disappearance. 

To any outside observer, as evidenced by Kaleen, it would look like there were children on board from the beginning since they have no way of knowing about the time differences in the Void, so how else could they rationalize the presence of children?

Conclusion is that the children were birthed on the ship while in the Void, which actually helps to explain their Void affinity while adults birthed in real space are driven insane over time instead. 

Although, it's possible that the parents never went clinically insane and that's merely the rationalization of children whose parents deemed to be demons for their Void powers and tried to kill.

Afterall, what child would want to believe that their own parents want them dead of their own volition?

Easier to believe they lost their minds.

 

Edit: Oh damn, didn't Albrecht refer to the reflection of himself in the Void as a Demon? 

Could the paradox be that we Tenno aren't children at all and the paradox is that we are simply a reflection of the adults who we believe are our parents? 

[Loza03]

23 minutes ago, Reitrix said:

Not quite. 

Assume for a moment that that it was indeed a military ship with no covert operation in the background and no children. 

The ship begins it's jump, fails and is trapped in the Void.

Now include the known property of the Void where time flows differently within from real space. 

You now have a ship with thousands of adults trapped together with seemingly no way out.

So we have a ship full of adults trapped for 10+ local years but reappears in real space a short time after the initial disappearance. 

To any outside observer, as evidenced by Kaleen, it would look like there were children on board from the beginning since they have no way of knowing about the time differences in the Void, so how else could they rationalize the presence of children?

Conclusion is that the children were birthed on the ship while in the Void, which actually helps to explain their Void affinity while adults birthed in real space are driven insane over time instead. 

Although, it's possible that the parents never went clinically insane and that's merely the rationalization of children whose parents deemed to be demons for their Void powers and tried to kill.

Afterall, what child would want to believe that their own parents want them dead of their own volition?

Easier to believe they lost their minds.

 

Edit: Oh damn, didn't Albrecht refer to the reflection of himself in the Void as a Demon? 

Could the paradox be that we Tenno aren't children at all and the paradox is that we are simply a reflection of the adults who we believe are our parents? 

Chains of Harrow calls this into question. Rell was on the ship when it was functioning normally and travelling. Presumably the crew would have long since figured out that the ship wasn't travelling by the time they had a full pregnancy and raised the kids for 10+ years

Quote

• Rell: We're in a ship.
• Kay: Yes?
• Rell: Impossible speed, beyond the Brankle Gap constant.
• Kay: Uh, I think so... you're better with that stuff. But it's amazing isn't it?-

Presumably the vessel wouldn't be 'moving' if it was stranded.

 

Later, Rell's mother also says this:

Quote

• Kay: Momma's... not... herself, Rell. I don't think... I think you should wait with the other kids, until they fix the ship. I love you but... you have to go! Go!

Which certainly seems to corroborate the idea that something happened to the Adult's minds.

 

Also, and this is a fairly mundane example, but where would Rell's mum get the Autism Emotion cards from? That's a fairly specialised piece of equipment you'd only pack if you were expecting to raise an Autistic child. So it's unlikely she'd have borrowed it from someone else, because why would they pack it if they weren't expecting to raise a kid, and the design is too elaborate to be home-made.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

5 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

The whole military ship was just cover up thing, Rell in chains of harrow while talking to hes mother metions going to Tau wich also explains why were was children onboard. 

Yeah i understand you believe it was a cover up. What i'm asking though is, why?

A theory like that couldn't just materialize out of nowhere. Where did the idea come from that it was specifically a "Colony ship"? What ingame information actually points specifically towards a "Colony ship", as opposed to a "War Ship" or a "Science Vessel"? As an example, in Star Trek, the Enterprise D was filled with Families, young and old. The Enterprise D is not classified as a "Colony ship", so in comparison why is the Zariman Ten Zero?

[Troposphere6]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Yeah i understand you believe it was a cover up. What i'm asking though is, why?

A theory like that couldn't just materialize out of nowhere. Where did the idea come from that it was specifically a "Colony ship"? What ingame information actually points specifically towards a "Colony ship", as opposed to a "War Ship" or a "Science Vessel"? As an example, in Star Trek, the Enterprise D was filled with Families, young and old. The Enterprise D is not classified as a "Colony ship", so in comparison why is the Zariman Ten Zero?

The lotus specifically states there was a cover up. 

"When the Zariman was found adrift, the Orokin did everything they could to erase their mistakes. Transit recordings, personnel logs... everything was wiped out. The only thing they kept was... you."

—Lotus, to the Operator, during The Second Dream

I'm not saying it was a colony ship but there was a cover-up of some sort

[Loza03]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Yeah i understand you believe it was a cover up. What i'm asking though is, why?

A theory like that couldn't just materialize out of nowhere. Where did the idea come from that it was specifically a "Colony ship"? What ingame information actually points specifically towards a "Colony ship", as opposed to a "War Ship" or a "Science Vessel"? As an example, in Star Trek, the Enterprise D was filled with Families, young and old. The Enterprise D is not classified as a "Colony ship", so in comparison why is the Zariman Ten Zero?

Deduction. There's only a handful of reasons to bring families of civilians onto a ship. And none of them are Military.

1: It's an exploration mission - this happens in the real world too. If you're going to be away without leave for several months or years in a predicted low-danger setting (like exploration) carrying civilian families makes sense for mental health reasons. This is why the Enterprise (most likely) carries civilians. There's nowhere to explore in the existing system, or wasn't at the time of the Orokin, so the only way this is possible is if they're going to Tau, and they'd only be able to go to Tau if there was a Rail connection, which would only exist if the Sentients had been there first, and we know that the Sentients were sent to Terraform worlds for Colonisation.

2: It's where the group lives - again no evidence, and there's the Solar System to live in.

3: It's a colony ship sent to deposit civilians in a new world. We know the Orokin were interested in Colonisation, that's why the Sentients exist in the first place. 

[bad4youLT]

55 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Yeah i understand you believe it was a cover up. What i'm asking though is, why?

A theory like that couldn't just materialize out of nowhere. Where did the idea come from that it was specifically a "Colony ship"? What ingame information actually points specifically towards a "Colony ship", as opposed to a "War Ship" or a "Science Vessel"? As an example, in Star Trek, the Enterprise D was filled with Families, young and old. The Enterprise D is not classified as a "Colony ship", so in comparison why is the Zariman Ten Zero?

The sacrifice told us, orokin have devastated their worlds and resources and was dyeing empire, they needed new source of resources hence the outer star system colinization efforts. 

 

Thats the whole reason why sentients exists, originaly they were supposed to be terraforming machines but because of their adaptation they obtained sentients and became independent from orokin who know wieved them as enemys. 

[(PSN)MYKK678]

2 hours ago, Troposphere6 said:

The lotus specifically states there was a cover up. 

"When the Zariman was found adrift, the Orokin did everything they could to erase their mistakes. Transit recordings, personnel logs... everything was wiped out. The only thing they kept was... you."

—Lotus, to the Operator, during The Second Dream

I'm not saying it was a colony ship but there was a cover-up of some sort

Yh definitely. It certainly implies that they were covering something up. But it always seemed to be that they were covering up the Zariman Ten Zero incident itself. The ship accidentally marooning in The Void, the adults losing their minds and killing each other, and the accidental creation of the Tenno. The ship was the 1st Military test of the Void Jump drive, because the Orokin at this stage had to expand out beyond the "known universe". It always seemed like the cover-up was to erase the missions utter failure. Mixed with the fact that the Sentients arrived around the time Zariman disappeared, a cover-up makes sense in that context.

Im just curious about the actual origin of Zariman Ten Zero = Colony Ship though. Because it doesn't seem to be anywhere in the game at all.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Deduction. There's only a handful of reasons to bring families of civilians onto a ship. And none of them are Military.

1: It's an exploration mission - this happens in the real world too. If you're going to be away without leave for several months or years in a predicted low-danger setting (like exploration) carrying civilian families makes sense for mental health reasons. This is why the Enterprise (most likely) carries civilians. There's nowhere to explore in the existing system, or wasn't at the time of the Orokin, so the only way this is possible is if they're going to Tau, and they'd only be able to go to Tau if there was a Rail connection, which would only exist if the Sentients had been there first, and we know that the Sentients were sent to Terraform worlds for Colonisation.

2: It's where the group lives - again no evidence, and there's the Solar System to live in.

3: It's a colony ship sent to deposit civilians in a new world. We know the Orokin were interested in Colonisation, that's why the Sentients exist in the first place. 

And thats sound deduction too. But based on one origin. The idea that there were both Adults and Children on the Zariman Ten Zero when it departed.

We're obviously discussing something thats intentionally vague, so nobody, including myself could state any 1 theory is 100% correct. I'm just interested in the origin of the idea that the ship was a "Colony ship" that was Covered-up by the Orokin records as a "Military Ship". When there are other possibilities.

Let me give an example:

Lets say Zariman Ten Zero was, in fact, a Military Ship through-and-through. Left for its mission like any Military Ship, only Military Personnel on board. Uses the Void Jump drive, accident happens, gone. The first bit of information missing is exactly how long Zariman Ten Zero was gone. But a key detail that is NOT missing, is The Void. The Void itself is described as;

- "a mysterious realm of extradimensional space, where the laws of physics hold little sway".

- Also according to Lore, "The Void is known to be responsible for phenomenon such as Time Travel, Parallel Universes, Pocket Dimensions, Teleportation, Entanglement, Resurrection, Void Powers and The Indifference (Man in the Wall)"

Taking those 2 details into account, we don't know how long Zariman Ten Zero was missing from the Origin System, and we definitely have no idea how Time is perceived within The Void itself. For all we know, 1 day in the Origin system could be 10 years in The Void. The Orokin, specifically the Entrati Family, studied The Void and set up the Heart as a connection, but that doesn't mean they fully understood it. Just that they figured out how to harness it with The Heart, and then failed to harness it again with their Void Jump drive, resulting in Zariman Ten Zeroes incident. (Its 2020 and Real Life Scientists still cannot explain why people Yawn, or its actual  function. Things exist even IRL without Science being able to explain it).

So realistically, with all that information, the Zariman Ten Zero could have spent Lifetimes of Time while trapped in The Void, while a week or a month or a year only passed by in the Origin system. Enough Time that those same Military Personnel started Families in The Void, accepting their fate of being stuck in the Void for 5 - 10 - 20+ Years already with no way of leaving. So what if The Orokin weren't lying to Kaleen? What if it truly was a Military Ship, that there were 0 children on board when it left? Even Rell's story is only told from "some point after the Zariman Ten Zero incident". Hell, its even a possibility with Parallel Universes and Quantum Entanglement that the children are a byproduct of human/orokin interaction with The Void.

Thats why i don't just resign myself to believing that it was just a "Colony ship". As crazy as the above details all sound, theres as much evidence that all of the above is 100% correct as it being a "Colony ship".

[(PSN)MYKK678]

2 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

The sacrifice told us, orokin have devastated their worlds and resources and was dyeing empire, they needed new source of resources hence the outer star system colinization efforts. 

 

Thats the whole reason why sentients exists, originaly they were supposed to be terraforming machines but because of their adaptation they obtained sentients and became independent from orokin who know wieved them as enemys. 

Yeah, thats all correct. The Sentients' job, before they gained Sentience, were worker-drones built to terraform planets in the Tau System around Tau Ceti. But the Sentients gaining Sentience and staging an attack against the Orokin (The Old War) didn't happen in 1 single day. The Orokin lost contact with the worker-drones before the Zariman Ten Zero ever departed.

So how does it make sense that the Orokin just randomly sent their "Colony ship" off to a Star System they don't know is terraformed and don't know is safe?

[Loza03]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

And thats sound deduction too. But based on one origin. The idea that there were both Adults and Children on the Zariman Ten Zero when it departed.

We're obviously discussing something thats intentionally vague, so nobody, including myself could state any 1 theory is 100% correct. I'm just interested in the origin of the idea that the ship was a "Colony ship" that was Covered-up by the Orokin records as a "Military Ship". When there are other possibilities.

Let me give an example:

Lets say Zariman Ten Zero was, in fact, a Military Ship through-and-through. Left for its mission like any Military Ship, only Military Personnel on board. Uses the Void Jump drive, accident happens, gone. The first bit of information missing is exactly how long Zariman Ten Zero was gone. But a key detail that is NOT missing, is The Void. The Void itself is described as;

- "a mysterious realm of extradimensional space, where the laws of physics hold little sway".

- Also according to Lore, "The Void is known to be responsible for phenomenon such as Time Travel, Parallel Universes, Pocket Dimensions, Teleportation, Entanglement, Resurrection, Void Powers and The Indifference (Man in the Wall)"

Taking those 2 details into account, we don't know how long Zariman Ten Zero was missing from the Origin System, and we definitely have no idea how Time is perceived within The Void itself. For all we know, 1 day in the Origin system could be 10 years in The Void. The Orokin, specifically the Entrati Family, studied The Void and set up the Heart as a connection, but that doesn't mean they fully understood it. Just that they figured out how to harness it with The Heart, and then failed to harness it again with their Void Jump drive, resulting in Zariman Ten Zeroes incident. (Its 2020 and Real Life Scientists still cannot explain why people Yawn, or its actual  function. Things exist even IRL without Science being able to explain it).

So realistically, with all that information, the Zariman Ten Zero could have spent Lifetimes of Time while trapped in The Void, while a week or a month or a year only passed by in the Origin system. Enough Time that those same Military Personnel started Families in The Void, accepting their fate of being stuck in the Void for 5 - 10 - 20+ Years already with no way of leaving. So what if The Orokin weren't lying to Kaleen? What if it truly was a Military Ship, that there were 0 children on board when it left? Even Rell's story is only told from "some point after the Zariman Ten Zero incident". Hell, its even a possibility with Parallel Universes and Quantum Entanglement that the children are a byproduct of human/orokin interaction with The Void.

Thats why i don't just resign myself to believing that it was just a "Colony ship". As crazy as the above details all sound, theres as much evidence that all of the above is 100% correct as it being a "Colony ship".

I already addressed most of these points in an earlier post, but in brief:

 

The ship was still moving - and presumably therefore, still functioning normally - at the start of his story. He comments about how fast they're going, and his mother does not answer in a way that indicates that the ship has yet broken down.

 

Time alone doesn't explain why the Adults would suddenly turn on their children. They'd have to have been in the void for a long period of time in order to have them, so why suddenly turn on their kids simultaneously? Why would the Man only exert his influence after a decade or so?

 

Rells mother has a piece of very specialised equipment for raising an Autistic child (emotion cards) on hand. There's no reason for her to have them if she wasn't planning on bringing Rell, who she already knew was Autistic (and no reason for any other crewmember to have them in order for them to be borrowed) and they're too finely-crafted to be hand-made from scraps you'd find aboard a military vessel.

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

The tennos powers seem to break reality. Transference serms like they shpuld be able to take on any form at will.  The tenno we see in the trailer i think is a parralel version of us.

I hope the tenno creator will get a full overhaul with proper sliders. And the 2 versions of the tenno will dbz style fuse to become a new more powerful being of whatever age or sex we want.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

13 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

I already addressed most of these points in an earlier post, but in brief:

 

1) The ship was still moving - and presumably therefore, still functioning normally - at the start of his story. He comments about how fast they're going, and his mother does not answer in a way that indicates that the ship has yet broken down.

 

2) Time alone doesn't explain why the Adults would suddenly turn on their children. They'd have to have been in the void for a long period of time in order to have them, so why suddenly turn on their kids simultaneously? Why would the Man only exert his influence after a decade or so?

 

3) Rells mother has a piece of very specialised equipment for raising an Autistic child (emotion cards) on hand. There's no reason for her to have them if she wasn't planning on bringing Rell, who she already knew was Autistic (and no reason for any other crewmember to have them in order for them to be borrowed) and they're too finely-crafted to be hand-made from scraps you'd find aboard a military vessel.

Yeah dont worry i read the other post too. It didnt necessarily address everything though.

1) which start of his story are you referring to exactly? The webcomic, which we're left to assume is canon, starts with the narrator explaining theres fires and blood and children singing. Pretty horrific but theres no mention of the ship moving at this point. The entire webcomic is Rells mother trying to kill him -> he kills her in self defense as shes mad at this stage -> girl tries to bring Rell to a secure room with other Tenno in it -> Boy pushes Rell out of the room -> Rell sits on the floor vaguely referencing the Man in the Wall -> the end. As for the quote in the previous post, that obviously takes place beforehand but thats adding information together under a MASSIVE assumption. At no point is it stated that the Zariman Ten Zero stopped functioning when it entered The Void. The Void, again, is an extradimensional space between spaces. The ship could have been functioning (flying) perfectly, but due to the incident, the Void Jump drive could have been beyond repair. Stranding them in the Void with a normal ship. The only time that the Zariman Ten Zero is ever referenced as "damaged" in any way is during the events of the Adults going mad in Rells webcomic. The Adults sabotaging the ship in their madness would be a far-more likely scenario.

2) Beyond 100 years, we genuinely have no idea what effect Time has on the Human Brain. There literally cannot be studies of what 150 years would do. 200 years. 500 years. And yet some of literatures best writers spaning different countries, societies and even eras, all paint longevity-of-life as a nose-dive towards either Apathy, Immorality, or plain Madness. Hundreds of years separating real visionaries and most of them ended up at the same conclusions. Aside from that, we already know that Physically, Biologically and Chemically, adults Brains function differently than Childrens. The Void could have easily had an effect-over-time on the Adults that it could not have had on the Children. Especially if the Children were born in The Void.

3) "Very special piece of equipment" is a bit of a stretch tbh. Its described as Cards with faces drawn on them so Rell had something to focus on. It never states its specifically Autism Cards, as Rell is never specifically described as Autistic. It was implied, and then 2 DE devs said it was either Autism or Asburgars. I can draw faces on cards in 5 mins too. And as someone with an Autistic Family member I can definitely confirm that a lot of the time, more than most would realise, parents of an Autistic child regularly carry around home-made items their child is comfortable with, rather than a store-bought item. Thinking its a specific type of "official" card is a bit of a leap.

[JackHargreav]

I wouldn't overthink the warframe lore as the devs said you learn the history of the universe from hearing about it from others and whatnot. You are not learning the facts you just gather whatever you can. Some things are true some might be not.

So everything you hear should be taken with a grain of salt.

Leverian perfectly reflects this as the information from there are mostly just stories and some info from archives.

[Loza03]

13 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

1) which start of his story are you referring to exactly? The webcomic, which we're left to assume is canon, starts with the narrator explaining theres fires and blood and children singing. Pretty horrific but theres no mention of the ship moving at this point. The entire webcomic is Rells mother trying to kill him -> he kills her in self defense as shes mad at this stage -> girl tries to bring Rell to a secure room with other Tenno in it -> Boy pushes Rell out of the room -> Rell sits on the floor vaguely referencing the Man in the Wall -> the end. As for the quote in the previous post, that obviously takes place beforehand but thats adding information together under a MASSIVE assumption. At no point is it stated that the Zariman Ten Zero stopped functioning when it entered The Void. The Void, again, is an extradimensional space between spaces. The ship could have been functioning (flying) perfectly, but due to the incident, the Void Jump drive could have been beyond repair. Stranding them in the Void with a normal ship. The only time that the Zariman Ten Zero is ever referenced as "damaged" in any way is during the events of the Adults going mad in Rells webcomic. The Adults sabotaging the ship in their madness would be a far-more likely scenario.

I address this in more detail in a moment, but we know that there was an accident - a severe, noticable one that would have come up in the conversation - prior to any kind of madness, which rules out sabotage.

31 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

2) Beyond 100 years, we genuinely have no idea what effect Time has on the Human Brain. There literally cannot be studies of what 150 years would do. 200 years. 500 years. And yet some of literatures best writers spaning different countries, societies and even eras, all paint longevity-of-life as a nose-dive towards either Apathy, Immorality, or plain Madness. Hundreds of years separating real visionaries and most of them ended up at the same conclusions. Aside from that, we already know that Physically, Biologically and Chemically, adults Brains function differently than Childrens. The Void could have easily had an effect-over-time on the Adults that it could not have had on the Children. Especially if the Children were born in The Void.

We can actually put together a half-decent timeline of events thanks to the War Within.

Quote

 Mother takes your hand and says there's been an accident. But don't worry, angel, you're safe with me. Her eyes are distant, unfocused... 

 The biomes had been sabotaged. The food stocks dwindled. Paranoia gripped your father's mind. What was it he said - as he stared out into the starless black

 

The first line proves that the children were present when the accident that caused the ship to enter the void occured. Meaning the Tenno were on the ship before the void accident. This is pretty compelling evidence in and of itself, but let's keep going to add to this. Although it does reference the mother's eyes being 'distant and unfocused', this could be as simple as the Mother lying about the safety of the children (since by all accounts, this kind of accident has a 100% mortality rate, at least from what we're led to believe)

The second line DOES imply sabotage, but only after the initial accident trapped them in the void, meaning void-madness sabotage wasn't the cause of it. Beyond that, it gives us a very vague time line - once the adults started going mad, it happened over a period of a couple weeks to a few months. We know there were likely a lot of mouths to feed, and the food stocks were most likely emergency ones, the biomes containing equipment to replenish the food. Whilst we don't know how long it took to get to this point, we can make a reasonable extrapolation that it's not that much longer. Why would the Man hang around doing nothing for years or a decade or more only to wind up turning everyone in weeks? It also further indicates that the ship wasn't a military vessel - why would such a vessel, that would presumably return to base on a regular interval, be carrying the means to replenish the food supply? A colony vessel, however, would need it - regardless of how long the journey was, they'd need supplies in order to sustain them long enough to start setting everything up.

 

36 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

3) "Very special piece of equipment" is a bit of a stretch tbh. Its described as Cards with faces drawn on them so Rell had something to focus on. It never states its specifically Autism Cards, as Rell is never specifically described as Autistic. It was implied, and then 2 DE devs said it was either Autism or Asburgars. I can draw faces on cards in 5 mins too. And as someone with an Autistic Family member I can definitely confirm that a lot of the time, more than most would realise, parents of an Autistic child regularly carry around home-made items their child is comfortable with, rather than a store-bought item. Thinking its a specific type of "official" card is a bit of a leap.

Spoiler

The faces, maybe, but how many people do you know who can hand draw intricate patterns that accurately and symmetrically? The cards clearly appear to have been printed, not home-made, likely for the express purpose they were used for.

 

(Also, I am very much aware of keeping a hold of particular items the child is comfortable with, but the point is that she wouldn't have had a set to be preferred in the first place if there weren't kids going in, home-made or otherwise, so it's not particularly relevant to the situation.)

[bad4youLT]

5 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Yeah, thats all correct. The Sentients' job, before they gained Sentience, were worker-drones built to terraform planets in the Tau System around Tau Ceti. But the Sentients gaining Sentience and staging an attack against the Orokin (The Old War) didn't happen in 1 single day. The Orokin lost contact with the worker-drones before the Zariman Ten Zero ever departed.

So how does it make sense that the Orokin just randomly sent their "Colony ship" off to a Star System they don't know is terraformed and don't know is safe?

This has not been explained yet, maybe orokin at that time didnt knew about sentients turning on them and taking over Tau for them selfs. 

[(PSN)MYKK678]

10 hours ago, Loza03 said:

1) I address this in more detail in a moment, but we know that there was an accident - a severe, noticable one that would have come up in the conversation - prior to any kind of madness, which rules out sabotage.

2) We can actually put together a half-decent timeline of events thanks to the War Within.

The first line proves that the children were present when the accident that caused the ship to enter the void occured. Meaning the Tenno were on the ship before the void accident. This is pretty compelling evidence in and of itself, but let's keep going to add to this. Although it does reference the mother's eyes being 'distant and unfocused', this could be as simple as the Mother lying about the safety of the children (since by all accounts, this kind of accident has a 100% mortality rate, at least from what we're led to believe)

The second line DOES imply sabotage, but only after the initial accident trapped them in the void, meaning void-madness sabotage wasn't the cause of it. Beyond that, it gives us a very vague time line - once the adults started going mad, it happened over a period of a couple weeks to a few months. We know there were likely a lot of mouths to feed, and the food stocks were most likely emergency ones, the biomes containing equipment to replenish the food. Whilst we don't know how long it took to get to this point, we can make a reasonable extrapolation that it's not that much longer. Why would the Man hang around doing nothing for years or a decade or more only to wind up turning everyone in weeks? It also further indicates that the ship wasn't a military vessel - why would such a vessel, that would presumably return to base on a regular interval, be carrying the means to replenish the food supply? A colony vessel, however, would need it - regardless of how long the journey was, they'd need supplies in order to sustain them long enough to start setting everything up.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

3) The faces, maybe, but how many people do you know who can hand draw intricate patterns that accurately and symmetrically? The cards clearly appear to have been printed, not home-made, likely for the express purpose they were used for.

 

(Also, I am very much aware of keeping a hold of particular items the child is comfortable with, but the point is that she wouldn't have had a set to be preferred in the first place if there weren't kids going in, home-made or otherwise, so it's not particularly relevant to the situation.)

I gotta be honest here, everything you just provided was meant to back up your theory and disprove mine. Instead it actually just put both theories on equal standing now. Obviously as stated earlier, neither theory is likely 100% correct, i'm instead just trying to figure out why people are stuck on 1 main theory when the evidence behind it is nowhere near solid.

1) this 1st point is almost immediately disproven due to your second point. In this one you state sabotage is ruled out, and in the next you talk about, and link a quote, about the same sabotage that this point is trying to state doesn't exist.

2) this one is a big one, because it almost sounds like someone looked into Warframes Lore, stitched together whatever they could even if there was no direct information or evidence, and now everyone just treats it like fact. The line you quoted could technically be used to try to prove your theory but we need to make 1 detail abundantly clear; there is absolutely, positively NO rational or logical way to infere any kind of timeline from that information. None. Theres no way to extrapolate any timeline from it either,  thats not how extrapolation works. Extrapolation literally means to pull information from something based on how you think it will continue. Extrapolation is a form of forecasting, aka trying to predict a future event, not a current one. The lines you quoted firstly disprove point 1. Then it goes to mentioning an accident, to the Blooms Sabotage. Just because the word "accident" is mentioned by 2 separate people, at different times, in different circumstances, doesn't mean they're talking about the Same accident. Its far more likely that Kay was talking about the Blooms being Sabotaged as the "accident" here as she simply didnt want to worry Rell. Like a Mother would. Theres nothing at all there that says this "accident" is linked, or even occured anywhere close to, the "accident" that left them stranded in the Void.

If we talk about timelines then the entire theory that the "accident" happened at the same time or was the same "accident" falls apart completely. In Warframe, interplanetary travel is already fast. We do it in minutes. The Zariman Ten Zeroes Void Jump drive was meant to "fold" them to Tau. "fold" meaning instantaneous travel through a Void-Made Einstein-Rosen Bridge. So if it took minutes to get to Saturn, and then was meant to be instant travel from Saturn to Tau, why are their food stocks dwindling minutes after the "accident"?

 3) with this point, you're trying to compare a real life humans artistic capacity, with a fictional more-advanced superhuman-esque Orokin. Tbh i feel like we could debate that for days and still end up at a standstill. It certainly looks hand-drawn with a sharpie to me, thats all i can say.

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

2) this one is a big one, because it almost sounds like someone looked into Warframes Lore, stitched together whatever they could even if there was no direct information or evidence, and now everyone just treats it like fact. The line you quoted could technically be used to try to prove your theory but we need to make 1 detail abundantly clear; there is absolutely, positively NO rational or logical way to infere any kind of timeline from that information. None. Theres no way to extrapolate any timeline from it either,  thats not how extrapolation works. Extrapolation literally means to pull information from something based on how you think it will continue. Extrapolation is a form of forecasting, aka trying to predict a future event, not a current one. The lines you quoted firstly disprove point 1. Then it goes to mentioning an accident, to the Blooms Sabotage. Just because the word "accident" is mentioned by 2 separate people, at different times, in different circumstances, doesn't mean they're talking about the Same accident. Its far more likely that Kay was talking about the Blooms being Sabotaged as the "accident" here as she simply didnt want to worry Rell. Like a Mother would. Theres nothing at all there that says this "accident" is linked, or even occured anywhere close to, the "accident" that left them stranded in the Void.

We can though, because this is literary analysis. Simply put, whilst there's no strict in-universe reason to say that two characters mentioning an accident when on board the same ship with a single major defining accident... they're characters in a story. The reason why I can confidently say that they are, is because those lines exist to inform us of what is happening.  The Zariman incident is, in the Second Dream, referred to as an 'accident'. So, when characters speak during that event and refer to an 'accident', that term is used to inform the player that it was the accident. It's literary shorthand basically. You can see this during the Rell comic, where a quote from the War Within is used by the Narrator to establish when the comic is taking place. 

So, with that in mind, we can say with some fairly decent confidence that they're referring to the void jump accident. If the children were there for the accident, then they were there when the ship was functioning normally. That's pretty case closed already. 

However, in the interest of thoroughness. There's also the fact that the War Within presents the flashback itself as linear. After the player learns that 'paranoia grips their fathers minds' we're then presented with the information that the Tenno came together, and then what they did. If points 2, 3 and 4 are presented in linear order in relation to each other, then 1 and 2 presumably are as well. Which means that event 2 occurs after event 1, which in turn means that void-induced Paranoia shows up after event 1 - the void jump accident - as well. This is further supported by the fact that civilisation in the Warframe universe hasn't collapsed because people regularly go mad

We can establish how long it takes from the understanding that, upon the biomes being sabotaged, they likely would only have enough food to last a relatively short time. They had means to recover it after all so they're not packing enough food to last years and years, only enough to see them through short emergencies. And that in turn establishes a time span for this to take place - weeks or months. Even if it's not a solid exact timeline of events, it doesn't make sense for the adults to go insane over a period long enough to have kids and the kids to grow up if they become paranoid and then monstrous over a period of weeks or at most a couple months.

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

f we talk about timelines then the entire theory that the "accident" happened at the same time or was the same "accident" falls apart completely. In Warframe, interplanetary travel is already fast. We do it in minutes. The Zariman Ten Zeroes Void Jump drive was meant to "fold" them to Tau. "fold" meaning instantaneous travel through a Void-Made Einstein-Rosen Bridge. So if it took minutes to get to Saturn, and then was meant to be instant travel from Saturn to Tau, why are their food stocks dwindling minutes after the "accident"?

EXACTLY.

Why would they need biomes to recover their food stock if they were making such a short trip, or only operating within the solar system where they could make frequent resupplies from military bases? Unless they were planning on travelling somewhere that otherwise had no existing means to replenish their food supply and inadequate infrastructure to have supplies frequently and consistently shipped to them? In other words, a place where there was limited or no pre-existing human civilisation? Where they would be the first, or among the first, to go and remain long-term?

In other words, a Colony.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

1) We can though, because this is literary analysis. Simply put, whilst there's no strict in-universe reason to say that two characters mentioning an accident when on board the same ship with a single major defining accident... they're characters in a story. The reason why I can confidently say that they are, is because those lines exist to inform us of what is happening.  The Zariman incident is, in the Second Dream, referred to as an 'accident'. So, when characters speak during that event and refer to an 'accident', that term is used to inform the player that it was the accident. It's literary shorthand basically. You can see this during the Rell comic, where a quote from the War Within is used by the Narrator to establish when the comic is taking place. 

So, with that in mind, we can say with some fairly decent confidence that they're referring to the void jump accident. If the children were there for the accident, then they were there when the ship was functioning normally. That's pretty case closed already. 

However, in the interest of thoroughness. There's also the fact that the War Within presents the flashback itself as linear. After the player learns that 'paranoia grips their fathers minds' we're then presented with the information that the Tenno came together, and then what they did. If points 2, 3 and 4 are presented in linear order in relation to each other, then 1 and 2 presumably are as well. Which means that event 2 occurs after event 1, which in turn means that void-induced Paranoia shows up after event 1 - the void jump accident - as well. This is further supported by the fact that civilisation in the Warframe universe hasn't collapsed because people regularly go mad

We can establish how long it takes from the understanding that, upon the biomes being sabotaged, they likely would only have enough food to last a relatively short time. They had means to recover it after all so they're not packing enough food to last years and years, only enough to see them through short emergencies. And that in turn establishes a time span for this to take place - weeks or months. Even if it's not a solid exact timeline of events, it doesn't make sense for the adults to go insane over a period long enough to have kids and the kids to grow up if they become paranoid and then monstrous over a period of weeks or at most a couple months.

 

2)  EXACTLY.

Why would they need biomes to recover their food stock if they were making such a short trip, or only operating within the solar system where they could make frequent resupplies from military bases? Unless they were planning on travelling somewhere that otherwise had no existing means to replenish their food supply and inadequate infrastructure to have supplies frequently and consistently shipped to them? In other words, a place where there was limited or no pre-existing human civilisation? Where they would be the first, or among the first, to go and remain long-term?

In other words, a Colony.

1)  i dont know what this was a reply to tbh? Maybe i haven't explained things properly or Maybe you misunderstood something said, but either way something got mixed up in the middle somewhere. We're in full agreement about the Linear main points of the story. Without a doubt. Those being;

- Zariman Ten Zero accidentally jumps into the Void instead of to Tau

- Adults go mad and try to kill all the Tenno

- Tenno kill the Adults in self defence

- Zariman Ten Zero somehow re-emerges from the Void and is rescued.

All of those details are 100% fact, and undisputed. So i'm not sure why we're talking about "event 1 had to happen before event 2", we agree on that. The difference in theories comes from the details Missing In Between. In your version, its almost instant madness and a broken ship within the first 5 mins of entering the Void. With mine, i'm explaining that you are trying to force Universal Laws, like the natural passage of time, onto a place that is confirmed 100% in Lore to NOT follow Universal Laws. Any argument for either of our theories cannot, in any way, be referenced to standard time, standard physics, standard string theory or standard mortality. Literally can't. We're told it can't. That's 1 of very few facts that we can confirm about any time spent in the Void. A normal Universe can't be used as a frame of reference. Your understanding of time based on Real Life cannot be applied to this. Its comparing apples to skyscrapers. So the entire idea of trying to extrapolate any kind of timeline in the Void is dead in the water to begin with. No story told so far starts from Zariman Ten Zeroes launch, its journey to Saturn, or even before/during the Void Jump drive incident. Every last one of them begins when they're Already in the Void, and theres no indication/clue/information/identifying factor/stardate/clock on a wall to say how long they've been there. Nothing. It could very well be 5 mins, but theres a truely equal chance it was 5000yrs. And neither of us can tip that scale. At all. To clarify, the point of my posts is not to say "mines better than yours", its literally saying "theres no actual evidence A is fact and B is not, so A and B must be equal".

 

2) So, this part of your entire theory is based on the idea that Military Ships dont need food? Even though we've all fought in Mess-Halls on Corpus and Grineer Military ships too? Or are we the badguys and we've been raiding and destroying Corpus and Grineer Colony Ships? That the Orokin Military Ships have never been sent out on long missions that they can't risk going on one of your food supply replenishment journeys? That the only possible ship that would need a sustainable food supply, apart from 85% of non-colony ships in fiction, is a Colony Ship in Warframe? This also didnt answer that last big question either. If the Journey to Saturn took, say, 6 mins, and the journey from Saturn to Tau should have taken 1 millisecond, in your theory who ate a "Colony Ships" normal supply of food in 6 mins 1 millisecond?

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

1)  i dont know what this was a reply to tbh? Maybe i haven't explained things properly or Maybe you misunderstood something said, but either way something got mixed up in the middle somewhere. We're in full agreement about the Linear main points of the story. Without a doubt. Those being;

- Zariman Ten Zero accidentally jumps into the Void instead of to Tau

- Adults go mad and try to kill all the Tenno

- Tenno kill the Adults in self defence

- Zariman Ten Zero somehow re-emerges from the Void and is rescued.

All of those details are 100% fact, and undisputed. So i'm not sure why we're talking about "event 1 had to happen before event 2", we agree on that. The difference in theories comes from the details Missing In Between. In your version, its almost instant madness and a broken ship within the first 5 mins of entering the Void. With mine, i'm explaining that you are trying to force Universal Laws, like the natural passage of time, onto a place that is confirmed 100% in Lore to NOT follow Universal Laws. Any argument for either of our theories cannot, in any way, be referenced to standard time, standard physics, standard string theory or standard mortality. Literally can't. We're told it can't. That's 1 of very few facts that we can confirm about any time spent in the Void. A normal Universe can't be used as a frame of reference. Your understanding of time based on Real Life cannot be applied to this. Its comparing apples to skyscrapers. So the entire idea of trying to extrapolate any kind of timeline in the Void is dead in the water to begin with. No story told so far starts from Zariman Ten Zeroes launch, its journey to Saturn, or even before/during the Void Jump drive incident. Every last one of them begins when they're Already in the Void, and theres no indication/clue/information/identifying factor/stardate/clock on a wall to say how long they've been there. Nothing. It could very well be 5 mins, but theres a truely equal chance it was 5000yrs. And neither of us can tip that scale. At all. To clarify, the point of my posts is not to say "mines better than yours", its literally saying "theres no actual evidence A is fact and B is not, so A and B must be equal".

It appears to me your argument is effectively dream theory. That because 'The Void' we have to throw out any and all logic, lore, narrative analysis and any information presented to us because it's inherently not useful because 'void', blissfully ignoring that normal logic works just fine despite void macguffinry in every other time we visit the void. When we go to the Orokin towers, which are in the void, we don't come out before we went in unless it's explicitly stated that we do (such as the Deadlock protocol).

So, no. You don't get a pass to ignore any information that doesn't agree with your theory because it happened on the Zariman. Nor do you get to assume that something occurred without evidence. 

The Tenno were there when the void jump accident occured. We have an instance where the Tenno is told that it occurred. They weren't born on the ship after the accident. We have textual evidence to support this, and unless the Duviri Paradox gives textual evidence to believe that linear time was disrupted on the Zariman, then we must assume that linear time was adhered to.

3 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

2) So, this part of your entire theory is based on the idea that Military Ships dont need food? Even though we've all fought in Mess-Halls on Corpus and Grineer Military ships too? Or are we the badguys and we've been raiding and destroying Corpus and Grineer Colony Ships? That the Orokin Military Ships have never been sent out on long missions that they can't risk going on one of your food supply replenishment journeys? That the only possible ship that would need a sustainable food supply, apart from 85% of non-colony ships in fiction, is a Colony Ship in Warframe? This also didnt answer that last big question either. If the Journey to Saturn took, say, 6 mins, and the journey from Saturn to Tau should have taken 1 millisecond, in your theory who ate a "Colony Ships" normal supply of food in 6 mins 1 millisecond?

Of course military ships need food stocks in case of emergancy or longer missions. But they don't need some biome that constantly regenerates those food stocks because they can go back to base to resupply when they do run out.  You pack the food you mean to take with you for the length of voyage, plus some extra in case of emergencies. That's economical. When you run out, you return to port. A biome and farm to constantly restock is completely superfluous and a waste of space and resources that could be better fulfilled carrying more munitions, troops or support vehicles, depending on the vessel's purpose.

But, in the case of a colony, it's reasonable to. Because it's reasonable to suggest that a colony ship can't just return to port whenever it feels like it, on account of the fact that in one location, the port doesn't exist, and the infrastructure to enable free travel between the two places in a reasonable timeframe most likely doesn't either. So, in the past, you'd carry a HUGE food stock to last long enough to establish a colony. Or, if you were a highly advanced civilisation that has the technology to carry a farm in a biome on a spaceship, you take the farm with you, and rely on that until you can establish something that provides more, or establish a more permanent link between Tau and Origin.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

1) It appears to me your argument is effectively dream theory. That because 'The Void' we have to throw out any and all logic, lore, narrative analysis and any information presented to us because it's inherently not useful because 'void', blissfully ignoring that normal logic works just fine despite void macguffinry in every other time we visit the void. When we go to the Orokin towers, which are in the void, we don't come out before we went in unless it's explicitly stated that we do (such as the Deadlock protocol).

So, no. You don't get a pass to ignore any information that doesn't agree with your theory because it happened on the Zariman. Nor do you get to assume that something occurred without evidence. 

2) The Tenno were there when the void jump accident occured. We have an instance where the Tenno is told that it occurred. They weren't born on the ship after the accident. We have textual evidence to support this, and unless the Duviri Paradox gives textual evidence to believe that linear time was disrupted on the Zariman, then we must assume that linear time was adhered to.

3) Of course military ships need food stocks in case of emergancy or longer missions. But they don't need some biome that constantly regenerates those food stocks because they can go back to base to resupply when they do run out.  You pack the food you mean to take with you for the length of voyage, plus some extra in case of emergencies. That's economical. When you run out, you return to port. A biome and farm to constantly restock is completely superfluous and a waste of space and resources that could be better fulfilled carrying more munitions, troops or support vehicles, depending on the vessel's purpose.

4) But, in the case of a colony, it's reasonable to. Because it's reasonable to suggest that a colony ship can't just return to port whenever it feels like it, on account of the fact that in one location, the port doesn't exist, and the infrastructure to enable free travel between the two places in a reasonable timeframe most likely doesn't either. So, in the past, you'd carry a HUGE food stock to last long enough to establish a colony. Or, if you were a highly advanced civilisation that has the technology to carry a farm in a biome on a spaceship, you take the farm with you, and rely on that until you can establish something that provides more, or establish a more permanent link between Tau and Origin.

1) incorrect. My point is that you are trying to draw comparisons to prove your theory. There is no comparison IRL to the Void and the Laws it is able to break. At all. Anywhere. Ever. In all of human history. 

- The Void allows methods of Time Travel. IRL we know how to impractically go forward in time by travelling close to the speed of light, but theres no known method to travel backwards. Theres no comparison.

- The Void allows for Parallel Universes. IRL this is an unproven theory. Theres no comparison.

- The Void allows for Pocket Dimensions. IRL this is an unproven theory. Theres no comparison.

- The Void allows for Teleportation. Something we "think" we may have noticed during one of CERNs Large Hadron Collider tests, but is still unproven. Theres no comparison.

- The Void allows for Entanglement. Even now in 2020 tests on Quantum entanglement are resulting in paradoxical results. This may be the 1 and only thing real life has in common with the idea behind Warframes Void. But as of right now, is still unproven. Theres no comparison.

- The Void allows for Resurrection. I suppose this one depends on a persons religious beliefs. But its a Sci-Fi game. Theres no comparison.

- The Void allows for Void Powers. Self explanatory. Theres no comparison.

- The Void allows for The Man in The Wall. Something that is neither a "Man" nor in an actual "wall". A name given by a disturbed child who was trying to understand something far beyond his comprehension. Theres no comparison.

The Void itself does not break logic, its simply that logic does not apply to it. They are 2 separate people living in  2 separate houses in 2 separate countries on 2 separate continents. Logic always has a frame of reference, the Void has no frame of reference. But if something does not make sense logically, that doesnt automatically mean its a "McGuffin", it simply means we do not have the means, nor the information to understand it yet. Right now we know we live in a 3 Dimensional Universe. We know theres a 2 Dimensional Universe and a 1 Dimensional Universe. A theory is that theres a 4 Dimensional Universe. And yet right now, this very second, at  4:57pm on December 3rd 2020, the Top Scientist in the world cannot show you what a 4 dimensional Cube would look like. Otherwise dubbed a Tesseract. They can't. They can tell you that its a shape who's sides are made up of 16 3 Dimensional Cubes, but they cant draw it, construct it, paint it, program it in a computer and print it out, nothing. How is it "logical" that Earths top Scientist cant show you a shape? Because we're 3 Dimensional beings, unable to even fathom a 4 Dimensional Cube. We dont have the means nor the information to even fathom it. Just as a 2 Dimensional being would be unaware of something as simple as "Up and Down", we cannot access the 4th Dimension. Yet we know there's a very high possibility that there's actually 11 Dimensions. Explain that logically.

 

2) i've been asking this entire time for this. Can you post the evidence of these claims? Specifically the textual evidence. Specifically referring to Tenno boarding Ten Zero, or being in Ten Zero before the jump. Anything that undoubtedly, unequivocally states this?

 

3) Can you provide any information to show that this statement is anything except your belief of how ships work? Anything from ingame? Anything Ballas or Margulis or any Orokin said or did? As of right now this is a personal belief based on thin air

 

4) Again the question asked twice now is missing. Im reading your posts fully and not seeing it answered. Its literally me trying to help you prove its a Colony Ship. Who ate Zariman Ten Zeroes normal food supplies within an hour? A ship that apparently housed thousands. You speak highly of logic so lets use logic, because right now we're talking about something that HAD to happen before the failed jump, as your theory states the conversation happened immediately after the jump. So Who ate all of it in an hour or less?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

On 2020-12-01 at 3:28 PM, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

As for why there were kids on Zariman Ten Zero is still unknown. Its definitely teased that perhaps the Orokin did it, meaning they sabotaged Zariman Ten Zero themselves, but theres not enough info to say thats definitely true. Right now we could say the kids just snuck onto the wrong ship on the wrong day, and theres just as much evidence of that being true too. We'll probably find out soon.

Each Tenno represents a child that was on that ship. We currently number in the millions. We were also there with our families. There's no way tens of millions of civilians snuck on board an experimental military vessel.

The evidence would suggest something along the lines of a generation/colony ship. The fact that tens of millions of us were on a military ship, with the intention to violate some of the existing rules of the void travel (can't remember which one), suggests that the orokin intended to experiment with the crew and passengers, purpose unknown at this time. This experimentation on such a large number of unwitting civilians probably would not have looked good if it came to light, so the denial that they put children on board an experimental military ship, makes perfect sense.

The alternative is that we were not placed on board the Z Ten-0 prior to launch. Rell's memories of the event suggest that this is not the case.