Just a fun thought regarding Duviri Paradox if it ever comes

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 hours ago, Troposphere6 said:

So I take it you have no evidence in the lore of the game and are going by the faulty premise that the number of real life players is equal to the number  of tenno.

The evidence is that in the lore the Tenno are the children from the ship. There are tens of millions of us. Each account is a Tenno. That's literally the lore. Can you show anything in the lore that definitively says that there are not tens of millions of us? 

 

5 hours ago, Ailia_Grimm said:

@(PSN)guzmantt1977

I have to agree with the others, the number of players doesn't equal the number of tennos in the lore

You yourself don't have any in-game confirmation on that

The in game lore does not say that the number of Tenno is not tens of millions, does it? Is there anything in the lore which contradicts the fact that each of us is an awakened dreamer, who was on the vessel? 

[Troposphere6]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

The evidence is that in the lore the Tenno are the children from the ship. There are tens of millions of us. Each account is a Tenno. That's literally the lore. Can you show anything in the lore that definitively says that there are not tens of millions of us? 

 

The in game lore does not say that the number of Tenno is not tens of millions, does it? Is there anything in the lore which contradicts the fact that each of us is an awakened dreamer, who was on the vessel? 

Your argument is nonsensical the number of tenno cannot be the same as the number of players as the number of players increases over the life of the game the number of tenno is fixed there was only one incident with the Zariman 10-0. There is nothing in the lore that specifically tells us the size of Zariman 10-0 nor the number of tenno however most of the events where the tenno are included are situtations where it would be hard to imagine such a colossal number of them. For instance, in the rhino prime codex entry it mentions that they were storing the survivors from the Zariman in one room that was described to be like a morgue. The fact they don't say that it was a morgue 100 times the size of the worlds largest stadium kinda indicates that it was not housing tens of millions of tenno. Now sure there could have been other rooms but then it would be unlikely that the scientist working in the next wing over wouldn't know about the colossal storage facility right down the hall.   

[Charlotte]

19 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

The evidence is that in the lore the Tenno are the children from the ship. There are tens of millions of us. Each account is a Tenno. That's literally the lore. Can you show anything in the lore that definitively says that there are not tens of millions of us? 

 

The in game lore does not say that the number of Tenno is not tens of millions, does it? Is there anything in the lore which contradicts the fact that each of us is an awakened dreamer, who was on the vessel? 

I have seen fairies and unicorns wandering around the rainforest here in Brazil. Do you believe me? No? Well, you can't PROVE their nonexistence. If you can't prove something, the default stance is to NOT believe that something. It's just how you can't convict someone without proof.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

29 minutes ago, Troposphere6 said:

Your argument is nonsensical the number of tenno cannot be the same as the number of players as the number of players increases over the life of the game the number of tenno is fixed there was only one incident with the Zariman 10-0. There is nothing in the lore that specifically tells us the size of Zariman 10-0 nor the number of tenno however most of the events where the tenno are included are situtations where it would be hard to imagine such a colossal number of them. For instance, in the rhino prime codex entry it mentions that they were storing the survivors from the Zariman in one room that was described to be like a morgue. The fact they don't say that it was a morgue 100 times the size of the worlds largest stadium kinda indicates that it was not housing tens of millions of tenno. Now sure there could have been other rooms but then it would be unlikely that the scientist working in the next wing over wouldn't know about the colossal storage facility right down the hall.   

Not nonsensical at all. Recall that we had to save the reservoir in Lua, even though we were awake. Why would we need that chunk of dead, broken rock? Because it contained the dreamers, those not yet awake. The rhino prime entry does not mention that the room contained "all" of us, nor does it give any indication of the size of the room, only that the observer noted that it was cold and that there was an array of shelves that they could see. You seem to want to argue semantics, so feel free to try to prove your case.

 

27 minutes ago, Tchaikovskies said:

I have seen fairies and unicorns wandering around the rainforest here in Brazil. Do you believe me? No? Well, you can't PROVE their nonexistence. If you can't prove something, the default stance is to NOT believe that something. It's just how you can't convict someone without proof.

Why on earth would I try to disprove that you have seen fairies in Brazil, it's one of the places where staurolites can be found. The common name in English is Fairy Stones. And Unicorns aren't so uncommon as some people might think. Happens all the time when bucks are sparring for mates, and one gets a horn knocked off. One horn. 

Besides, the question posed isn't asking you to disprove anything. I'm asking you to provide the evidence that you seem to think exists to back the claim that you're making. What part of the lore specifically and definitively puts an upper limit on the number of Tenno, that is significantly less than Tens of millions.

[-Krism-]

1 hour ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

The in game lore does not say that the number of Tenno is not tens of millions, does it?

It doesn't say it is either tho XD

[Troposphere6]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

Not nonsensical at all. Recall that we had to save the reservoir in Lua, even though we were awake. Why would we need that chunk of dead, broken rock? Because it contained the dreamers, those not yet awake. The rhino prime entry does not mention that the room contained "all" of us, nor does it give any indication of the size of the room, only that the observer noted that it was cold and that there was an array of shelves that they could see. You seem to want to argue semantics, so feel free to try to prove your case.

 

Why on earth would I try to disprove that you have seen fairies in Brazil, it's one of the places where staurolites can be found. The common name in English is Fairy Stones. And Unicorns aren't so uncommon as some people might think. Happens all the time when bucks are sparring for mates, and one gets a horn knocked off. One horn. 

Besides, the question posed isn't asking you to disprove anything. I'm asking you to provide the evidence that you seem to think exists to back the claim that you're making. What part of the lore specifically and definitively puts an upper limit on the number of Tenno, that is significantly less than Tens of millions.

I doubt I'm going to be able to convince you that your wrong especially as you don't seem to understand why the number of players and the canonical number of tenno cannot be the same number.

[Charlotte]

1 hour ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

Why on earth would I try to disprove that you have seen fairies in Brazil, it's one of the places where staurolites can be found. The common name in English is Fairy Stones. And Unicorns aren't so uncommon as some people might think. Happens all the time when bucks are sparring for mates, and one gets a horn knocked off. One horn. 

Okay, you got me. I like you.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, Ailia_Grimm said:

It doesn't say it is either tho XD

So our existence in the tens of millions, and the fact that we are each a Tenno, gives the only logical conclusion that can be drawn is that there were tens of millions of us, at least, abord the Z Ten-0. Cool huh? 😉

59 minutes ago, Tchaikovskies said:

Okay, you got me. I like you.

You're going to have to tell me where the Fairies are so I can keep an eye out for them next time. The closest I came to a rainforest last time I was there, was Ibirapuera Park for a couple of hours. And the time before there weren't many unicorns in Boa Vista from the looks of it. 🤷‍♂️

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, Troposphere6 said:

I doubt I'm going to be able to convince you that your wrong especially as you don't seem to understand why the number of players and the canonical number of tenno cannot be the same number.

Whyever would you claim that it can not be? What exactly in the canon says "there are not millions of Tenno", when the canon clearly shows that by creating an account we are awakened as a unique Tenno?

[-Krism-]

31 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

So our existence in the tens of millions, and the fact that we are each a Tenno, gives the only logical conclusion that can be drawn is that there were tens of millions of us, at least, abord the Z Ten-0. Cool huh? 😉

Yeah well, that doesn't disprove my point & you still don't have any yourself so, seeing as you're just stubborn & don't even consider our POVs, I'm gonna stop here :p

Nice try tho, maybe next time? XD

[Troposphere6]

31 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

Whyever would you claim that it can not be? What exactly in the canon says "there are not millions of Tenno", when the canon clearly shows that by creating an account we are awakened as a unique Tenno?

No it really doesn't and your asking me to prove a negative which isn't possible. There is a set number of tenno there has to be there is no way for more tenno to be created the tenno are definitely the survivors of the Zariman 10-0 incident which has a defined number of survivors. What would you have said I wonder a few years ago before there were quiet so many warframe players that there was 10 thousand tenno? And how about next year or the year after will it be that there are 100s of millions of tenno? Your stance is not logically consistent. The number of survivors is a constant the number of players isn't they cannot be the same number. Try this for a thought experiment if there were tens of millions of tenno why wouldn't the orokin, who were terrified of the void demons and there power, thin the herd down to a manageable number? 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

40 minutes ago, Troposphere6 said:

No it really doesn't and your asking me to prove a negative which isn't possible. There is a set number of tenno there has to be there is no way for more tenno to be created the tenno are definitely the survivors of the Zariman 10-0 incident which has a defined number of survivors. What would you have said I wonder a few years ago before there were quiet so many warframe players that there was 10 thousand tenno? And how about next year or the year after will it be that there are 100s of millions of tenno? Your stance is not logically consistent. The number of survivors is a constant the number of players isn't they cannot be the same number. Try this for a thought experiment if there were tens of millions of tenno why wouldn't the orokin, who were terrified of the void demons and there power, thin the herd down to a manageable number? 

Nonsense. I'm asking you to provide definitive proof of what you are claiming.

And years ago I would have said exactly the same thing, the number of Tenno who were on board is at a minimum, the number of players, but each time a new Tenno awakens, then the estimate must be revised upwards. The total number of souls aboard the vessel must also be greater than the number of Tenno, as the family did not include just children. 

I see your thought experiment and remind you that they were in a war, and we were the single most powerful weapon that existed in the universe. We were their only hope of victory. I ask in response, "in a world where any sane person would be terrified of the prospect of the atomic bomb, why did the superpowers design and build ever more destructive nuclear arsenals, and why do those weapons continue to be produced by humanity even to this day wasn't SALT 1 over 50 years ago, and SALT 11 over 40 years ago?"

I figure that's a fair comparison, we are like the nukes, weapons with massive destructive capabilities, created (perhaps intentionally?) by the Orokin who feared the threat that the Sentients pose. Like the nukes, the majority of us slept, kept inert, in at least one hidden bunker intended to be used, possibly as weapons of last resort. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, Ailia_Grimm said:

Yeah well, that doesn't disprove my point & you still don't have any yourself so, seeing as you're just stubborn & don't even consider our POVs, I'm gonna stop here :p

Nice try tho, maybe next time? XD

Oh that's not true at all. I absolutely consider your point of view, to be incorrect. 

🤷‍♂️

😉

[Troposphere6]

1 minute ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

Nonsense. I'm asking you to provide definitive proof of what you are claiming.

And years ago I would have said exactly the same thing, the number of Tenno who were on board is at a minimum, the number of players, but each time a new Tenno awakens, then the estimate must be revised upwards. The total number of souls aboard the vessel must also be greater than the number of Tenno, as the family did not include just children. 

I see your thought experiment and remind you that they were in a war, and we were the single most powerful weapon that existed in the universe. We were their only hope of victory. I ask in response, "in a world where any sane person would be terrified of the prospect of the atomic bomb, why did the superpowers design and build ever more destructive nuclear arsenals, and why do those weapons continue to be produced by humanity even to this day wasn't SALT 1 over 50 years ago, and SALT 11 over 40 years ago?"

I figure that's a fair comparison, we are like the nukes, weapons with massive destructive capabilities, created (perhaps intentionally?) by the Orokin who feared the threat that the Sentients pose. Like the nukes, the majority of us slept, kept inert, in at least one hidden bunker intended to be used, possibly as weapons of last resort. 

The story doesn't work at all with tens of millions of tenno. First why were they only deployed one at a time. Second how could margilus or the lotus for that matter be a mother figure for a group that size? Third how could the orokin hope to control a group that big. Fourth why would the orokin use the Dax at all with 10s of millions of tenno they could just upgrade and be done. Fifth why are the corpus or the grineer at all a threat to the tenno, tenno are WMD's if there were that many of them the corpus and grineer wouldn't stand a chance since each tenno is litterally a one man army. And in answer to your question SALT1 and SALT11 didn't just turn up one day on a vessel that was thought lost with the ability to hop back and forth between dimensions.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

11 hours ago, Troposphere6 said:

The story doesn't work at all with tens of millions of tenno. First why were they only deployed one at a time. Second how could margilus or the lotus for that matter be a mother figure for a group that size? Third how could the orokin hope to control a group that big. Fourth why would the orokin use the Dax at all with 10s of millions of tenno they could just upgrade and be done. Fifth why are the corpus or the grineer at all a threat to the tenno, tenno are WMD's if there were that many of them the corpus and grineer wouldn't stand a chance since each tenno is litterally a one man army. 

The story works perfectly with millions of Tenno. 

First: Why are nukes typically used/tested one at a time? That's all that's needed for the purpose. 

Also according to the lore, the Tenno were NOT always deployed one at a time. The slaughter of the Orokin, using the Naga drums as a way to synchronize the attack tells us that there had to be multiple Tenno. Ergo multiple Tenno were active and acting in concert. 

Second: What did the Queens do to you? Did you not have an immensely personal interaction with at least one character where they guided you? Was that interaction any less than real for you? Was that interaction not something that allowed an unlocking of a part of your powers? Is it unreasonable to suspect that if it allowed an unlocking, that it could have been a part of the locking process as well? 

Third: think back to when you awoke in the Grineer clutches, were you really there? Where was your body and how much control would you have had, if someone decided to shoot, poison, decapitate, explode, or apply the Green Light? You're powerful, not invulnerable, Tenno, like the tales of the old sorcerers who hid their hearts, their weaknesses, in jars, away from their body. The difference is that you had no idea where your heart was. 

Fourth: two reasons. The Dax were conditioned to be completely loyal. You don't use a cannon to kill a mosquito. We were extremely powerful, but some jobs require other skill sets. Go check out a construction company's tools. Just because they have jackhammers, doesn't mean that they throw out the sledge hammers. 

Fifth: because we maintain the balance of power. How many times have you been told that? How have you not grasped what that means? 

Struggle, means that the strong survive. The factions become stronger in order to continue existing. Peace, leads to weakness. As Teshin is happy to remind us, there has always been a greater threat just over the horizon, and he's been right. Weakness would have proven fatal to all of us. In the face of an external threat, we may yet unite to mutual benefit. Happened to the Greeks pretty often. 

 

12 hours ago, Troposphere6 said:

And in answer to your question SALT1 and SALT11 didn't just turn up one day on a vessel that was thought lost with the ability to hop back and forth between dimensions.

Uh.... SALT was the Strategic Arms Limitation Talks, not the bombs. It's where people tried to convince the superpowers to not keep going in an inevitable arms race to Tsar Bomba 2 levels. Those talks were over 40 years ago. The entire world was afraid of nuclear war, and we were on the brink for quite some time. There were several very close calls.

Though maybe you might be old enough to remember them. Maybe you grew up after the cold war. Maybe you are just uninformed. Maybe you don't realise that many of those weapons still exist. 

[rushari]

18 hours ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

The evidence is that in the lore the Tenno are the children from the ship. There are tens of millions of us. Each account is a Tenno. That's literally the lore. Can you show anything in the lore that definitively says that there are not tens of millions of us? 

 

The in game lore does not say that the number of Tenno is not tens of millions, does it? Is there anything in the lore which contradicts the fact that each of us is an awakened dreamer, who was on the vessel? 

It does not say the actual number but someone can imagine it's not thousands. Since margulis take care of the children personally. I can't imagine more than a size of a class.

When we talk about a glass of water the estimate is similar even if you don't give the size of the glass.

[Troposphere6]

1 hour ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

The story works perfectly with millions of Tenno. 

First: Why are nukes typically used/tested one at a time? That's all that's needed for the purpose. 

Also according to the lore, the Tenno were NOT always deployed one at a time. The slaughter of the Orokin, using the Naga drums as a way to synchronize the attack tells us that there had to be multiple Tenno. Ergo multiple Tenno were active and acting in concert. 

Second: What did the Queens do to you? Did you not have an immensely personal interaction with at least one character where they guided you? Was that interaction any less than real for you? Was that interaction not something that allowed an unlocking of a part of your powers? Is it unreasonable to suspect that if it allowed an unlocking, that it could have been a part of the locking process as well? 

Third: think back to when you awoke in the Grineer clutches, were you really there? Where was your body and how much control would you have had, if someone decided to shoot, poison, decapitate, explode, or apply the Green Light? You're powerful, not invulnerable, Tenno, like the tales of the old sorcerers who hid their hearts, their weaknesses, in jars, away from their body. The difference is that you had no idea where your heart was. 

Fourth: two reasons. The Dax were conditioned to be completely loyal. You don't use a cannon to kill a mosquito. We were extremely powerful, but some jobs require other skill sets. Go check out a construction company's tools. Just because they have jackhammers, doesn't mean that they throw out the sledge hammers. 

Fifth: because we maintain the balance of power. How many times have you been told that? How have you not grasped what that means? 

Struggle, means that the strong survive. The factions become stronger in order to continue existing. Peace, leads to weakness. As Teshin is happy to remind us, there has always been a greater threat just over the horizon, and he's been right. Weakness would have proven fatal to all of us. In the face of an external threat, we may yet unite to mutual benefit. Happened to the Greeks pretty often. 

 

Uh.... SALT was the Strategic Arms Limitation Talks, not the bombs. It's where people tried to convince the superpowers to not keep going in an inevitable arms race to Tsar Bomba 2 levels. Those talks were over 40 years ago. The entire world was afraid of nuclear war, and we were on the brink for quite some time. There were several very close calls.

Though maybe you might be old enough to remember them. Maybe you grew up after the cold war. Maybe you are just uninformed. Maybe you don't realise that many of those weapons still exist. 

You do realize that a force of 50 million tenno (the  most recent number of players I could find) could take and hold territory. We wouldn't be fighting a guerilla campaign. For instance the Kuva fortress could be taken and held with ease by a group that large. Same with the plains of eidolon and other key area's. The infestation on deimos could be completely wiped out by a force that big the planets only got a surface area of 458 miles 50 million tenno would be over kill. Most of the issues that we have canonically wouldn't be a problem with a group that sized. You second point you seem to be arguing that either the hole war within was a dream or that the grineer queen died more than once I'm not sure which and your too your third point the tenno may not be invulnerable but there much more endurable than the grineer or corpus they can loose warframes with little effect (see recovery missions) 
Thanks for the history lesson however I don't see how it has any baring on the topic at hand nuclear weapons don't have opinions and while tenno could be classified as WMDs theres a large difference between super soldiers with physics bending powers and very good bombs.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, Troposphere6 said:

You do realize that a force of 50 million tenno (the  most recent number of players I could find) could take and hold territory. We wouldn't be fighting a guerilla campaign. For instance the Kuva fortress could be taken and held with ease by a group that large. Same with the plains of eidolon and other key area's. The infestation on deimos could be completely wiped out by a force that big the planets only got a surface area of 458 miles 50 million tenno would be over kill. Most of the issues that we have canonically wouldn't be a problem with a group that sized. 

Yes. I do know that 50 million Tenno could take and hold territory, but as I explained to you, peace = stagnation. Stagnation = weakness. Weakness = death. 

Without an apex predator, the kine becomes weak. Without the need to hunt, the predator becomes weak. Struggle leads to strength. 

Check out what happened to Yellowstone when the wolves were absent. Then contrast that with what happened after they were reintroduced. This is what happens to the ecosystem without struggle. 

Next consider wolves, and the domesticated dogs you see today. The peaceful lives they live, has made dogs weak. And before you suggest that was all due to artificial selection, and founder effects, I advise you consider your own species. Unless you outrun Usain Bolt, you probably could not keep up with your ancestors who struggled daily to survive. Living without the struggle they faced daily has made us all weak. 

Eliminating the threats that the other factions pose, would make all of the Origin system, weak. Teshin knew this and has been warning you for years. 

2 hours ago, Troposphere6 said:

You second point you seem to be arguing that either the hole war within was a dream or that the grineer queen died more than once I'm not sure which and your too your third point the tenno may not be invulnerable but there much more endurable than the grineer or corpus they can loose warframes with little effect (see recovery missions) 

Much of our quest, during the war within, literally existed within our minds. The Queens sought to break us so that we could be used as hosts, as their bodies were degrading. The interaction was no less real for that fact. It was a highly personal experience as far as we could tell at the time. During that sequence we also broke free from Margulis' conditioning. If such a state, could induced and to an extent controlled by an external entity in one of us, then it stands to reason that same could have been done to all of us, perhaps when we were being blocked from our powers. 

And while we may be insanely powerful now, with our focus schools fully complete, take a look at the pathetic mess that exists after TWW. They are far weaker. Imagine what would happen if you put one of those, who don't even know what powers they have or how to use them in a ship with a large number of corrupted enemies. Then remember that the corrupted enemy they have to kill is probably wearing the faces of the child's family or people they know..... That lack of invulnerablity is far more important than you seem to realize. Having numbers would be a major factor in the children's survival. 

2 hours ago, Troposphere6 said:

Thanks for the history lesson however I don't see how it has any baring on the topic at hand nuclear weapons don't have opinions and while tenno could be classified as WMDs theres a large difference between super soldiers with physics bending powers and very good bombs.

You are welcome. But try to recall that YOU asked why the Orokin would have kept our numbers high, instead of culling the herd if they feared us. The answer is that during the cold war, when everyone feared the outbreak of global thermonuclear war, superpowers spent a lot of effort to stockpile as many of those weapons as possible. 

People tend to be afraid of what guns can do too. But quite often you find that many are quite happy to be the ones controlling the gun. 

As for our physics bending superpowers, did you forget that the Orokin had Margulis not only disable those but "erase" us as well, as Teshin put it? 

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 hours ago, rushari said:

It does not say the actual number but someone can imagine it's not thousands. Since margulis take care of the children personally. I can't imagine more than a size of a class.

When we talk about a glass of water the estimate is similar even if you don't give the size of the glass.

Oh I agree, it clearly wasn't thousands, it was millions. While I accept that you can't imagine dealing with more than a few hundred, I suspect that none of your experiences would match the scale and scope of the Orokin empire. As an example, do you often imagine terra forming planets? Of freezing the hottest planet in the solar system, just because? 

When you think about a glass of water, do you remember that there are about 5 x 10²³ particles of water in just 3 teaspoons of water? How many would be in your glass, my friend? It's really just a matter of how we think about what we are seeing, isn't it? 

 

Now there are multiple ways she could have interacted with them. First and simplest, stasis. Each of your living companions has interacted with you for almost every waking moment of their lives, haven't they? We know that we were kept in some sort of stasis. As an Orokin, time seems to be a non issue for Margulis considering Teshin, Ballas and the Entrati. If you were an immortal Orokin, how many people do you think you could interact with, and keep in stasis between interactions. 

Next is the ability to interact directly with the minds of others and create scenarios that are indistinguishable from reality. We know that the Grineer queens had this technology, and that they were Orokin. 

You pick which one you prefer to accept as how it could be done. 😉

[Troposphere6]

52 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

Yes. I do know that 50 million Tenno could take and hold territory, but as I explained to you, peace = stagnation. Stagnation = weakness. Weakness = death. 

Without an apex predator, the kine becomes weak. Without the need to hunt, the predator becomes weak. Struggle leads to strength. 

Check out what happened to Yellowstone when the wolves were absent. Then contrast that with what happened after they were reintroduced. This is what happens to the ecosystem without struggle. 

Next consider wolves, and the domesticated dogs you see today. The peaceful lives they live, has made dogs weak. And before you suggest that was all due to artificial selection, and founder effects, I advise you consider your own species. Unless you outrun Usain Bolt, you probably could not keep up with your ancestors who struggled daily to survive. Living without the struggle they faced daily has made us all weak. 

Eliminating the threats that the other factions pose, would make all of the Origin system, weak. Teshin knew this and has been warning you for years. 

Much of our quest, during the war within, literally existed within our minds. The Queens sought to break us so that we could be used as hosts, as their bodies were degrading. The interaction was no less real for that fact. It was a highly personal experience as far as we could tell at the time. During that sequence we also broke free from Margulis' conditioning. If such a state, could induced and to an extent controlled by an external entity in one of us, then it stands to reason that same could have been done to all of us, perhaps when we were being blocked from our powers. 

And while we may be insanely powerful now, with our focus schools fully complete, take a look at the pathetic mess that exists after TWW. They are far weaker. Imagine what would happen if you put one of those, who don't even know what powers they have or how to use them in a ship with a large number of corrupted enemies. Then remember that the corrupted enemy they have to kill is probably wearing the faces of the child's family or people they know..... That lack of invulnerablity is far more important than you seem to realize. Having numbers would be a major factor in the children's survival. 

You are welcome. But try to recall that YOU asked why the Orokin would have kept our numbers high, instead of culling the herd if they feared us. The answer is that during the cold war, when everyone feared the outbreak of global thermonuclear war, superpowers spent a lot of effort to stockpile as many of those weapons as possible. 

People tend to be afraid of what guns can do too. But quite often you find that many are quite happy to be the ones controlling the gun. 

As for our physics bending superpowers, did you forget that the Orokin had Margulis not only disable those but "erase" us as well, as Teshin put it? 

 

I think at this point we're going to have to agree to disagree you've not presented anything in the lore to suggest anywhere near 50 million cannonical tenno and we're just talking in circles.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

47 minutes ago, Troposphere6 said:

I think at this point we're going to have to agree to disagree you've not presented anything in the lore to suggest anywhere near 50 million cannonical tenno and we're just talking in circles.

Literally each of us is a unique Tenno. The last count of us registered losers I saw, was in that range. 

What counter-argument do you have to either of those? 

There's literally nothing at all to suggest that there are fewer Tenno than that. 

But sure, disagree all you wish, Tenno. 😉

[Troposphere6]

1 hour ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

Literally each of us is a unique Tenno. The last count of us registered losers I saw, was in that range. 

What counter-argument do you have to either of those? 

There's literally nothing at all to suggest that there are fewer Tenno than that. 

But sure, disagree all you wish, Tenno. 😉

You can't use information from outside the game that hasn't been confirmed cannonically to inform yourself about the cannon. The question is about in the story that warframe tells how many tenno are there the pedantic answer is 7. Rell the tenno you play as and the 5 others in the erra cutscene. In the same cutscene there looks to be maybe 50 groups of 6 pods in which tenno are stored so maybe 300 tenno in that cutscene. That all in game information its not uncommon for MMO's to have a rift between the number of players and the number of people that those players represent for story telling purposes. The point is without explicate confirmation that those numbers are the same you can't make that assumption it's unsupported that's the problem. If there's no in game evidence for it, then all it can be is an empty assertion. I hope I've made my point clearly enough. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

55 minutes ago, Troposphere6 said:

You can't use information from outside the game that hasn't been confirmed cannonically to inform yourself about the cannon. The question is about in the story that warframe tells how many tenno are there the pedantic answer is 7. Rell the tenno you play as and the 5 others in the erra cutscene. In the same cutscene there looks to be maybe 50 groups of 6 pods in which tenno are stored so maybe 300 tenno in that cutscene. That all in game information its not uncommon for MMO's to have a rift between the number of players and the number of people that those players represent for story telling purposes. The point is without explicate confirmation that those numbers are the same you can't make that assumption it's unsupported that's the problem. If there's no in game evidence for it, then all it can be is an empty assertion. I hope I've made my point clearly enough. 

Outside of the game? LOL, how is the number of registered accounts in a game something outside of the game? 

Claiming that other MMOs do "something else", would count as "information from outside of the game". Saying "in THIS game, there are at least 50 million unique accounts, and each one is unique" is definitely relevant to what applies to THIS game. 😉

And if the claim is that the lore doesn't explicitly state how many of us there are, then how on earth do you think that is going to equate to being any sort of evidence that "there are only a few of us"? If anything that means that tens of millions is a definite possibility. 

Seriously, Tenno. Do better than that. 🙄

[Troposphere6]

11 minutes ago, (PSN)guzmantt1977 said:

Outside of the game? LOL, how is the number of registered accounts in a game something outside of the game? 

Claiming that other MMOs do "something else", would count as "information from outside of the game". Saying "in THIS game, there are at least 50 million unique accounts, and each one is unique" is definitely relevant to what applies to THIS game. 😉

And if the claim is that the lore doesn't explicitly state how many of us there are, then how on earth do you think that is going to equate to being any sort of evidence that "there are only a few of us"? If anything that means that tens of millions is a definite possibility. 

Seriously, Tenno. Do better than that. 🙄

I think you misunderstood my point. I should have said in the story not in the game and number of registered accounts have no baring on the story. It's easier to support there are few than there are many for instance as I said before counting the number of cryopods in the erra cutscene you would need to infer that they are full but I don't think that's a stretch. Or another example Captain Vor was assigned to track down tenno as they woke up the dialog seems to suggest that they only ever deal with one tenno at a time and it's a small operation now of course that's open to some interpretation. An other example is whenever frames are mentioned from the old war there only ever talked about in ones or twos and are sudo mythical in nature which would suggest that they were rare suggesting that they were few. Of course none of this is definitive either way merely suggestive we won't know until we have either direct confirmation that account numbers effect the number of canonical tenno (as in tenno in the story of warframe) or a Zariman type ship to measure or some other more defiant way to get an estimate of the number of tenno in the story.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 minute ago, Troposphere6 said:

I think you misunderstood my point. I should have said in the story not in the game and number of registered accounts have no baring on the story. It's easier to support there are few than there are many for instance as I said before counting the number of cryopods in the erra cutscene you would need to infer that they are full but I don't think that's a stretch. Or another example Captain Vor was assigned to track down tenno as they woke up the dialog seems to suggest that they only ever deal with one tenno at a time and it's a small operation now of course that's open to some interpretation. An other example is whenever frames are mentioned from the old war there only ever talked about in ones or twos and are sudo mythical in nature which would suggest that they were rare suggesting that they were few. Of course none of this is definitive either way merely suggestive we won't know until we have either direct confirmation that account numbers effect the number of canonical tenno (as in tenno in the story of warframe) or a Zariman type ship to measure or some other more defiant way to get an estimate of the number of tenno in the story.

Have you ever noticed the little floating words over a character? Those are the names of the Tenno around you. Each unique. They're also visible in the communication system. 

If you pay attention long enough, you'll notice that they change as some come online and go offline. If you really wanted to you could count the number of unique names over the course of a few years. 

If you want to get a quick start, hop into a relay and try counting the names of the Tenno on the memorials. They were some of the Founders. Each one a Tenno. 

Btw, spoiler, a while ago we found out that Warframes ≠ Tenno. So the stories about the warframes ≠ stories about Tenno.