Request: Customize Weapon Trigger Functions

[Salenstormwing]

I'm not sure if everyone has this issue, but my hands are not as young as they were 7 years ago when clicking was a fun, easy task.

Not all weapons need the ability to change their trigger function. Press-to-Charge, Duplex, Auto, and Auto-Burst triggers are fine. Mostly this boils down to the  SEMI and BURST-only triggers on weapons, especially ones with high ROF.

What I'd like to see is one of two changes to triggers.

• Allow a Weapon with Semi & Burst-Only to be set to Auto & Auto-Burst (along with a RoF penalty to compensate), OR
• Create an Exilus Weapon Mod to turn Semi Trigger to Auto & Burst Trigger into Auto-Burst (again with RoF penalty however DE feels)

The first option provides easy change so stuff like the Akjagara Prime pistol goes from a clicky nightmare to something where I'd be able to hold down the trigger and worry amount hitting the target and not how each button press would be a stab along my carpel tunnel.

The second option provides the ability to combine the change as part of the mod system, promote the use of exilus weapon mod slots, cost the weapon some extra performance as mod points are moved to a non-meta mod for user-comfort, and allow me to use weapons without aggravating my tendonitis like crazy.

Honestly, i just want weapon options. Slow-ROF semi triggers like sniper rifles aren't bad, but High-ROF semis are impossible to use, or you do what some do and you mod you mouse wheel to spin freely and link that to your trigger. Why is it okay to have an external work-around for the issue but we don't have one inside the game for folks who don't want to mod their mouse (or use controllers on consoles)?

I'd rather spend the 200 dollars it would cost me to go to the doctor to get a cortizone shot every 4 months on stuff in-game, but that's just me.

[MrDog2]

The same thing happens with melee weapons. What we need is a hold and hold attack, not a crazy mouse click

[Salenstormwing]

Oh boy, I got a Zakti Prime!

*One 10 Minute Survival Later*

For the love of everything good and holy, let me use the pistol on Auto, please. My poor tendonitis has determined Ignis Wraith Good, anything with a Semi Trigger is Satan.

[(XBOX)Ampathetiic]

21 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

Oh boy, I got a Zakti Prime!

*One 10 Minute Survival Later*

For the love of everything good and holy, let me use the pistol on Auto, please. My poor tendonitis has determined Ignis Wraith Good, anything with a Semi Trigger is Satan.

I'm sure you'd love AkBolto Prime. That thing destroys fingers faster than a hammer.

[Salenstormwing]

17 hours ago, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

I'm sure you'd love AkBolto Prime. That thing destroys fingers faster than a hammer.

That's a bad one. Akjakara Prime is another.

While I have you here, here's a few suggestions on 0 point Exilus Mods for Semi-to-Auto Triggers:

• Rate of Fire -33%, Trigger becomes Auto (Less DPS by reduced RoF)
• Damage -25%, Trigger becomes Auto (Less DPS by reducing Damage)
• Recoil + 75%, Trigger becomes Auto (Less DPS by making Recoil harder to Control) (Not available on Semi Weapons with no recoil)
• Accuracy -75%, Trigger becomes Auto (Less DPS by making Headshots and overall Accuracy more difficult)

I would TOTALLY give up my Exilus slot just to save myself from having to click to fire constantly with ANY of the above mod options.

Call it "Fan the Hammer" for Revolvers, "Illegal Upgrade" for Rifles or SMGs, "Convsersion Kit" for Pistols, whatever... Just make the pain stop please.

Actually, Hey, DE, you there?

Look up the most popular weapons being used in-game right now. You have the ability to look at in-game statistics because you can see what everyone is using and how they use it and what not.

Subtract ALL the Melee (they don't have triggers obviously), Bows (because unless they're auto-crossbows, they're just bows), Sniper Rifles, and... Launchers? Yeah, that should be all of the major items that wouldn't be effected by the Trigger mod suggestion.

Now, find out WHAT are the popular weapons in-game by TRIGGER type. I bet ya 50 Ducats, all the big-name ranged weapons being used right now are full-auto weapons, with semi triggers (especially in the Secondary weapon category) showing up much less use. I'm sure I could look up the Riven use, but I bet you stuff with full auto triggers are MUCH more popular than their semi trigger counterparts.

I would love to use my old Akvastos, but I'm never going to use them again, because my hand hated life when I used them when I was 7 years younger. Now, I'd be lucky if my hand didn't just explode from the concept of clicking a weapon that much.

Plus, it's not like OTHERS haven't done stuff like "Set Their Mouse Scroll As Weapon Fire" and then made their scroll wheel free floating so they can just slap it down and fire their guns like a full auto weapon anyways.... At least I'm offering up negatives to balance the mods.

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, Salenstormwing said:

While I have you here, here's a few suggestions on 0 point Exilus Mods for Semi-to-Auto Triggers:

• Rate of Fire -33%, Trigger becomes Auto (Less DPS by reduced RoF)
• Damage -25%, Trigger becomes Auto (Less DPS by reducing Damage)
• Recoil + 75%, Trigger becomes Auto (Less DPS by making Recoil harder to Control) (Not available on Semi Weapons with no recoil)
• Accuracy -75%, Trigger becomes Auto (Less DPS by making Headshots and overall Accuracy more difficult)

I would TOTALLY give up my Exilus slot just to save myself from having to click to fire constantly with ANY of the above mod options.

Honestly, I'd use a system like this too--it's an improvement over what we have.   And I like modding and don't really care much about optimizing damage.

And yet...I'd be grievously disappointed in and a little angry at DE if this were their solution. It doesn't sit well with me at all to have players pay a double penalty (exilus slot, plus the drawback) for something that should just be a  QoL option.  Actually, QoL doesn't do justice to it.  It's more like basic well-being.   Yes, we can use macros.  But games like this need to provide  internal rudimentary means for players to play to the fullest without injuring themselves in the process.  Anything less is just shoddy and irresponsible.  And really, ethics aside  keeping players healthy and providing more accessibility is in their long term interests anyway.

Hold to auto-attack--ranged, melee, and probably abilities too--should be selectable under settings, full stop.  

To pull out an analogy I've used many times before...

I think in a few years we'll laugh in disbelief at how old games like Warframe didn't provide  this basic feature in the same way we laugh now at early action-RPGs making people click on every pile of gold to pick them up.

 

[UUDDLRLRBA_START]

You guys just want to make the vanilla Hind a viable early game thing.

Kuva Hind is better.

[FeralKuja]

Honestly, these are good ideas.

I'd also appreciate the ability to have alternate-fire swap modes or instantly fire the alt-fire based on user-choice on a per-weapon basis. It's a bit cumbersome to use Euphona Prime's buckshot because, even on a thumb mouse button, it's awkward to have it instantly fire on alt-fire when so many other weapons' alt-fire button swaps modes.

So, options to convert semi and burst weapons into auto and auto-burst for player comfort would be ideal. In fact, I'd support them being exilus mods that cost zero capacity specifically at base rank, but can reduce the downsides if their rank is increased (In the end, making them cost 5 capacity at max rank of 5 for minimal downsides).

Considering how many exilus mods are just wasted space, and how auto weapons are in such an impressively more comfortable spot than semi trigger weapons, these new exilus mods could allow for semi and burst weapons to reenter the fray in a big way for people who don't want to get/exacerbate carpal tunnel/tendonitis/arthritis with click spam.

[Tiltskillet]

35 minutes ago, FeralKuja said:

So, options to convert semi and burst weapons into auto and auto-burst for player comfort would be ideal. In fact, I'd support them being exilus mods that cost zero capacity specifically at base rank, but can reduce the downsides if their rank is increased (In the end, making them cost 5 capacity at max rank of 5 for minimal downsides).

Considering how many exilus mods are just wasted space, and how auto weapons are in such an impressively more comfortable spot than semi trigger weapons, these new exilus mods could allow for semi and burst weapons to reenter the fray in a big way for people who don't want to get/exacerbate carpal tunnel/tendonitis/arthritis with click spam.

Using mods as -the- solution is problematic.  You're acknowledging that it's a health issue--why should it require using a slot?   Not only is charging an in-game opportunity cost to prevent tendonitis  silly, but...

• Melee weapons don't have exilus slots
• New players don't have exilus slots
• Unless they're given in the tutorial, new players won't have these mods at all
• Very few people of any level are going to open an exilus slot on every weapon.

In effect, using mods to address this -discourages- people from looking after their health. 

[CephalonCarnage]

Agree, if you have tendonitis, then the only thing is to play less and/or buy a more ergonomic mouse. The new ones these days are sloped so your thumb is higher than your pinky which reduces the strain on the tendons, takes a little while to get used to as its different from flat mice, but worth it for your long-term health.

If this is somehow not an option, there are still a hundred other weapons that you can choose that do not have this problem without having to turn burst weapons into auto ones which would remove the entire design of burst triggers that have other trade-offs (like higher damage) to compensate.

[Lutesque]

On 2020-11-30 at 9:41 PM, Salenstormwing said:

Allow a Weapon with Semi & Burst-Only to be set to Auto & Auto-Burst (along with a RoF penalty to compensate)

Why the Penalty 🤔 ?

On 2020-11-30 at 9:41 PM, Salenstormwing said:

Create an Exilus Weapon Mod to turn Semi Trigger to Auto & Burst Trigger into Auto-Burst (again with RoF penalty however DE feels)

This is essentially an example of a penalty (even though we really don't have any mandatory Exilus Mods).. In Which case... I would ask why ?

 

The reason I ask why is because PC players already have a way of Auto Firing Semi Auto Weapons Scott Free with no Downsides so who exactly is going to use this feature ?

On 2020-11-30 at 9:41 PM, Salenstormwing said:

Honestly, i just want weapon options.

And there's nothing wrong with that.... That's a reasonable thing to want and you should not have to negotiate or Compromise just to get full Functionality out of your Weapons....

On 2020-11-30 at 9:41 PM, Salenstormwing said:

but High-ROF semis are impossible to use, or you do what some do and you mod you mouse wheel to spin freely and link that to your trigger.

For us Controller Users... We just use Steam Input's Configuration Software.... Atleast those of us who know about it do.... I still encounter players who've never heard of it....

I'm hoping that if enough Players mess with how the game Controls that DE can't ignore it anymore and will have to Design their Controll Options more Sensibly..... Or it will back Fire and Valve will give DE authority to Disable Steam Input Outright 😱 !!!! It can go either way.... 

On 2021-05-01 at 2:47 AM, (XBOX)Regxxh said:

I'm sure you'd love AkBolto Prime. That thing destroys fingers faster than a hammer.

For me it's my Rivened Akvasto Prime.... It's actually my most Powerful Ranged Weapon.... But only if I use Steam's Turbo Functionality to Rapid Fire the Trigger for me.... It's merely Good if I have to Fire Each Shot Manually myself.... 

On 2021-05-01 at 11:32 PM, Tiltskillet said:

 

And yet...I'd be grievously disappointed in and a little angry at DE if this were their solution. It doesn't sit well with me at all to have players pay a double penalty (exilus slot, plus the drawback) for something that should just be a  QoL option. 

I agree... 

Honestly  I'm at a loss on what more I can do just to get atleast a response from DE about this specific thing.... I would start a petition but I'm too lazy....

I thought if I Told everyone about Steam Input that would work but it turns out Controller Wielding PC Tennos are not common sight....

Does DE want me to write a letter ? I haven't sent one in 15 Years but if that would atleast get me a response then Il break out the Post Stamps right now....

On 2021-05-01 at 11:32 PM, Tiltskillet said:

Actually, QoL doesn't do justice to it.  It's more like basic well-being.

Lol... You Know !!! 

I'm dumbfounded how this is allowed to continue.... Triburos was Complaining about this way back during the Void Key Days.... 

19 hours ago, FeralKuja said:

I'd also appreciate the ability to have alternate-fire swap modes or instantly fire the alt-fire based on user-choice on a per-weapon basis.

This is Interesting... 😲 !!!

 

[Salenstormwing]

18 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Using mods as -the- solution is problematic.  You're acknowledging that it's a health issue--why should it require using a slot?   Not only is charging an in-game opportunity cost to prevent tendonitis  silly, but...

I was trying to come up with a way to both be fair and provide opportunity to have more unique builds in-game. This wasn't about melee attacks, as those are not related to mouse-based clicky-click things unless you have remapped it.

As Exilus mods, the mods would still be useable in non-exilus slots, but if you got the slot open, it's a free slot to use. In the end, I'm just trying to find a nice compromise to make the option happen. I'm open to ANY option, as long as it becomes a feature that helps me not destroy my hand. Mods seemed like an easy (and balanced) way to provide access to changing the weapons without having to rewrite the weapon UI. Would a toggle be more useful to change a weapon from Semi to Auto? Yes, but the UI team would have to code that, and most likely they'd want to balance it with some negative, so why not give players the option to customize it how they'd prefer (with slower RoF, higher recoil, less damage or accuracy). All the numbers can be changed, altered, or adjusted.

What I want is to bring up that this IS an issue, and I would love to see it DE actually take ALL the solutions given, and figure out the one that's fair to both players both young and old.

18 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

In effect, using mods to address this -discourages- people from looking after their health. 

Again, this is to help start a discussion. Also, if the mods aren't severe in their negatives, people who DO need them WILL use them. Yes, having a built-in function to just turn triggers auto would be better, but I'm not a DE developer. I'm just trying to offer suggestions on how to implement it. Like how Melee 2.0 was a revision of Melee 1.0, and later Melee 3.0 changed how Melee 2.0 worked. This may only be a stepping stone, but I'd like to start building a road.

3 hours ago, gbjbaanb said:

Agree, if you have tendonitis, then the only thing is to play less and/or buy a more ergonomic mouse.

Actually, I have one of those. It's on my work PC. I might have to bring it home, but even then, a brand new ergo mouse is 80-90 dollars ($US), so not everyone like me will have the money to get a new ergo mouse at the drop of a hat. Just a basic mod would be easy for all players to just have and to use whenever.

20 hours ago, UUDDLRLRBA_START said:

You guys just want to make the vanilla Hind a viable early game thing.

Gasp. That would be awesome. The Vanilla baguette could actually be useable with Burst-Auto... It would be SO MAGICAL. *_*

[Salenstormwing]

24 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Why the Penalty 🤔 ?

This is essentially an example of a penalty (even though we really don't have any mandatory Exilus Mods).. In Which case... I would ask why ?

 

The reason I ask why is because PC players already have a way of Auto Firing Semi Auto Weapons Scott Free with no Downsides so who exactly is going to use this feature ?

And there's nothing wrong with that.... That's a reasonable thing to want and you should not have to negotiate or Compromise just to get full Functionality out of your Weapons....

For us Controller Users... We just use Steam Input's Configuration Software.... Atleast those of us who know about it do.... I still encounter players who've never heard of it....

I'm hoping that if enough Players mess with how the game Controls that DE can't ignore it anymore and will have to Design their Controll Options more Sensibly..... Or it will back Fire and Valve will give DE authority to Disable Steam Input Outright 😱 !!!! It can go either way.... 

 

Why a penalty? Uh... game balance. I'm not opposed to sacrificing a small bit of power/accuracy/recoil/whatever for more functionality. I'd love a mod that just changed the trigger, cost 0, and fit in the exilus slot (if it was open), with no negatives. But I'm trying to think like a DE Dev.

I know there are other ways AROUND the issue; the free-floating mouse wheel firing being one of them. I wasn't aware of the Steam Input Configuration Software. It sounds like an old-school version of the "TURBO" button on YE OLDE Nintendo Controllers BY COMPANIES NOT NAMED NINTENDO! Those were the best controllers. And again, I'm not opposed to just providing the option of no-penalty to players.

If they did it with mods, fine; if they did it with UI change, fine; if they just allowed us to set certain keys to TURBO mode, groovy; just at this point, I want to offer SOMETHING to DE to get them to do it, because I've played this game for 7 years, and I'd like to continue to play it into the future. It's just every time I suggest this, no traction is made. Maybe if we talk enough, we'll finally get their attention.

I used to play PC w/ controller, but that's sort of how I messed up my hand. Been fighting it ever sense. Mouse was honestly the less painful option for me.

But hey, if other folks can use the Steam Controller Input to save themselves some hand-ache, more power to you (and them).

PS Edit: Sorry I didn't answer your questions in my previous post, but I was most of the way through typing the first one that I didn't want to lose the answers I'd given up to that point

[Lutesque]

29 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

Why a penalty? Uh... game balance. I'm not opposed to sacrificing a small bit of power/accuracy/recoil/whatever for more functionality. I'd love a mod that just changed the trigger, cost 0, and fit in the exilus slot (if it was open), with no negatives. But I'm trying to think like a DE Dev.

But as you said... This is a Health/Usability Issue... Not a Balance issue.... 

I also wouldn't mind a slower Fire Rate on my Latron and Akvasto But we gotta maintain one singular Focus....

And while we're on the Subject....

Which enemy Throws those Blinding Grenades ? 

One of the bursas ? 

Yeah those things also need to go ASAP....

I was playing Lightfall the other day and OMG I swear this one puzzle was trying to Blind me....

It should be Illegal for Game Designers to fill the Screen with pure white for any reason....

34 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

I wasn't aware of the Steam Input Configuration

Indeed... Very few people are....

Which is funny because if you launch Steam in BPM mode it should have a window showcasing Steam Input (apparently it goes away if you click on it once... Never to return)....

I think valve themselves should Peddle this feature just alil bit harder....

I've only encountered 2 People who want nothing to do with it... Everyone else was kicking them selves over how they ever survived without it....

39 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

 

I used to play PC w/ controller, but that's sort of how I messed up my hand. Been fighting it ever sense. Mouse was honestly the less painful option for me.

I'm surprised your hand gave out before your Controller did.... That being said had I not discovered Steam Input I'm pretty sure I would have been at risk too.... I was beginning to experience long persistent Pains in my wrists and fingers before valve saved me.... 

I swear Capcom is conspiring to injure my Hands.... Do I really have to hold down the Button to Charge Nero's/V's/Falke's Blue Rose/Blockade/Staff ?  😐 I get cramps just thinking about playing Devil May Cry...

45 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

But hey, if other folks can use the Steam Controller Input to save themselves some hand-ache, more power to you (and them).

It's actually been expanded beyond the Steam Controller... 

No Really.... Valve went through the Trouble of Acquiring Drivers for The PlayStation and Nintendo Controllers aswell thus giving you access to the Gyroscope Functionality aswell....

I mean it's one thing for Valve to merely allow us to configure the X-input controls but the fact they went through the Trouble of building in PlayStation and Nintendo Controller Drivers into the Feature so that you don't have to rely on third party Drivers is something I never expected.... Yet they did it anyway....

You don't even have to do anything.... As soon you plug in a Play Station Controller it Identifies it as a PlayStation Controller....

Actually there is one thing you have to do (you have click on a single check box)  but once it's done it works 😲 !!!

52 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

Sorry I didn't answer your questions in my previous post, but I was most of the way through typing the first one that I didn't want to lose the answers I'd given up to that point

It's all good 😉....

Okay so.... I went back and watched some of my old Favourite Matthew Matosis Videos and something in his Devil Daggers Review Really Resonated with me... This topic feels oddly similar to what he described:

I forgot what the special code was for Linking a video to start a a specific time so if you could fast forward to 12:38 that would be awesome.... If you can't.... Then I guess I can try to Paraphrase what he says in those 90 Seconds because it's extremely Interesting:

"Although the game lacks any HUD... The game includes a timer that you can enable that removes any Guess Work from Spawn Timings. It's a shame that this encroaches on the HUD Free experience, however, there is is a logical reason for this.... 

If a player wanted to set up a timer of their own, they could easily do that. Even if it's just having a clock next to their monitor. Since there's no way to stop players from doing that and we want an even playing field for all players... It may aswell just be built directly into the game. That makes perfect sense. 

However, there is another missing element that can be justified using the exact same logic. 

There's also no way to stop players from grabbing a couple rulers, and drawing a small dot in the centre of their monitors ( 😳This was my reaction at this point in the video 😳!!! ).... Who knows... Perhaps some players have already been doing this. For the purposes of this video I tried it out... And it actually does make a big difference. Last shots become much easier to land.

Since the same logic isn't applied to both the Timer and the Reticle, then I'm afraid I have to give Devil Daggers a Theoretically Imperfect Out 10." 

- Matthew Matosis' Devil Daggers Review

I was speechless... I literally couldn't focus on anything else for the next 30 Minutes because I was thinking about the Implications of this Revelation in every game I could think of where this Logic Applies.... Not just for the players... But for the developers too.... 

I mean what are the devs suppose to do at that point... Remove the timer ? Nope... It's already been proven that's pointless... Add Reticle ? Nope... That goes against both the Aesthetic and everything they believe in. Do they leave the game As is ? If they do then they run the risk of being a Cautionary Tale if the design becomes Revelation becomes the new Standard.

I suppose what they can do is make a sequel to accommodate what they now know.... After all that's Pac Man did.... Yeah that also didn't turn out the way we expected....

Luckily this isn't an issue in Warframe.... Trigger Mechanics have no basis in the game's aesthetics.... And even if they did me and other players have been invalidating that argument using 2ndary Software. So they may aswell just Integrate it into the game and save Console Players a trip to the Doctors office with their Complaints about Hand Pains....

It wouldn't surprise me if they had a special file Akbolto Prime Related Injuries. 😳... I mean... It would.... But not as much as you think you think it would....

 

[Salenstormwing]

2 hours ago, Lutesque said:

But as you said... This is a Health/Usability Issue... Not a Balance issue.... 

I also wouldn't mind a slower Fire Rate on my Latron and Akvasto But we gotta maintain one singular Focus....

I think it can be both a Health/Usability Issue AND a Balance issue. I prefer the feel of Auto over Semi Triggers. The same applies to Burst triggers, where I've seen Burst-Auto vs Burst-Semi (where one is a steady 3-round burst you just hold down while the other requires you to pull the trigger every time you want to shoot a burst of 3-rounds.) I'm not dumb enough to suggest that my usability of a weapon wouldn't be improved by also making the changes that would prevent me from having to constantly click the mouse.

So when in doubt, I focus on the issue of BOTH. Because then, at least DE might look at it, and make their own determination on if such changes require a penalty or not. I'm just shotgunning ideas.

2 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Which is funny because if you launch Steam in BPM mode it should have a window showcasing Steam Input (apparently it goes away if you click on it once... Never to return)....

Okay, that's probably why I don't use it, since BPM felt very clunky when it first came out. Probably totally missed it.

2 hours ago, Lutesque said:

So they may aswell just Integrate it into the game and save Console Players a trip to the Doctors office with their Complaints about Hand Pains....

Actually, you got me thinking about someone's suggestion about using a vertical mouse. I think on one of the Prime (Home) Times, Megan said she was using one because the charge ran out on it in the middle of the stream, so she had to plug it in. Most likely she was using a Logitech Vertical (which is a fine mouse, I have one at work). So if she's using one, probably because of hand issues being at issue... maybe it would be best to ask her to help promote an alternative-system with triggers being changeable. Or something.

@[DE]Megan, can you verify that you use a Logitech Vertical mouse? Sorry, I know this just seems like a random question for you, but I'm curious why you're using one (if you're using one), because I might have to take my own Vertical mouse home at this rate to help with the hand pains.

[CephalonCarnage]

Of course, this raises one issue that you do not address: if you have issues clicking because of physical problems, holding down a button is not any different - it feels like it is because you're using a muscle in your arm to pull the finger down, but the tendon issue is not different because you're doing the same thing with the same muscles and tendons. You might think its easier, and it may feel more comfortable, but the damage is still being done. The only solution is a more comfortable mouse, even if it costs $90 (a fraction of the gfx card, monitor etc cost you spent to be able to play the game in the first place). The game's clicking is only exacerbating a problem that exists, you are not removing it by changing triggers. There are cheap alternatives to try, such as wrist supports or straps that force your wrist into "correct posture" or even simply change the height of your desk/chair so your hand and wrist are aligned better.

And I still think the game has so many weapons this is a non-issue, don't like the akjagara, use an aksomato or akstilletto instead, that's why they have so many different ones. If they changed the trigger from burst to auto, you can guarantee they'd change the feel (and damage specs) so that your akjagara in auto mod would feel and perform just like an aksomati or akstilleto anyway.

But you're still advised to change your mouse before you do more harm to your wrist, no weapon modding is going to change that.

[Salenstormwing]

21 hours ago, gbjbaanb said:

Of course, this raises one issue that you do not address: if you have issues clicking because of physical problems, holding down a button is not any different - it feels like it is because you're using a muscle in your arm to pull the finger down, but the tendon issue is not different because you're doing the same thing with the same muscles and tendons. You might think its easier, and it may feel more comfortable, but the damage is still being done. The only solution is a more comfortable mouse, even if it costs $90 (a fraction of the gfx card, monitor etc cost you spent to be able to play the game in the first place). The game's clicking is only exacerbating a problem that exists, you are not removing it by changing triggers. There are cheap alternatives to try, such as wrist supports or straps that force your wrist into "correct posture" or even simply change the height of your desk/chair so your hand and wrist are aligned better.

And I still think the game has so many weapons this is a non-issue, don't like the akjagara, use an aksomato or akstilletto instead, that's why they have so many different ones. If they changed the trigger from burst to auto, you can guarantee they'd change the feel (and damage specs) so that your akjagara in auto mod would feel and perform just like an aksomati or akstilleto anyway.

But you're still advised to change your mouse before you do more harm to your wrist, no weapon modding is going to change that.

Which is easier to do? Lay on your back, or do a sit-up? Let an anchor with chain stay down on the ground, or move it up and down over and over?

When you press a button, you tell one tendon in your finger to contract, and another to release. When you do that over and over and over in short succession, you have tendons going from contract to release or release to contract and it's being worked no different than a mechanism.

Yes, a better mouse would still help. But requiring less button presses would also help. If the difference is laying on one's back for 10 minutes and only having to do a few sit-ups or doing sit-ups for 10 minutes almost constantly, I know which one is gunna be less painful over the long run.

 

But beyond that... you know what changes the feel of an aksomati or an akjagara or any weapon in game? MODS. Would I appreciate having an Akjagara have performance closer to an Akstilletto? YES. If I could mod one to act like another, I see this as a WIN. So why not make mods have a single additional function for folks who would LIKE the function? Is it for everyone? NO. Would it be nice though? HELL YES.

One of my favorite weapons, the Akvasto, I don't use because it's too painful to use like I used to back in the day. It was fun to feel like a cowboy space ninja filling targets full of lead. Would I like it if I could just hold down the trigger and let the whole thing fire like a normal automatic weapon? YES. Because in the end, I find it easier to use, and less painful as well. This is a QUALITY OF LIFE issue. It might not effect you, but Warframe isn't a competitive game where everything has to fit in a meta like it's meant to balance things. If that was the case, you wouldn't see things like RIVENS in game.

And that's why I thought about this whole thing from the idea that MODIFICATIONS (Mods) would probably be the most appropriate form to implement these changes.

Otherwise, I might as well just use the previously mentioned Stream Trigger Input Method mentioned in previous posts in this thread to make a "Turbo" trigger that was a thing you could get on a SNES controller back in the day.

[CephalonCarnage]

1 hour ago, Salenstormwing said:

Which is easier to do? Lay on your back, or do a sit-up?

Poor analogy - what you should ask is "do a sit up, or a held crunch". When you press your finger down, you are tensing that muscle to pull the tendon and keeping it tensed, and the tendon pulled against your carpal tunnel. In the grand scheme of how much you hold down a button, its not going to be any different health-wise, and you're still better advised to change your wrist posture.

Trouble is, with your suggestion is that if you like the akvasto, and get an auto trigger, it will no longer feel like the akvasto but more like an afuris. And you can have an afuris today.

[Salenstormwing]

18 minutes ago, gbjbaanb said:

Poor analogy - what you should ask is "do a sit up, or a held crunch". When you press your finger down, you are tensing that muscle to pull the tendon and keeping it tensed, and the tendon pulled against your carpal tunnel. In the grand scheme of how much you hold down a button, its not going to be any different health-wise, and you're still better advised to change your wrist posture.

Trouble is, with your suggestion is that if you like the akvasto, and get an auto trigger, it will no longer feel like the akvasto but more like an afuris. And you can have an afuris today.

What I do know is I can hold down a trigger with an Ignis just fine and not feel like garbage while using said Zakti Prime after 10 minutes. And moving a muscle constantly back and forth is gunna cause more issues than merely holding it. Friction is a thing. Either way, I know how it effects ME.

Why do you care how an Akvasto feels? I'm asking how it COULD feel for folks who would RATHER have an AUTO-Trigger. I've seen Auto-Burst used in games outside Warframe, and having something like that on a HIND would be great as it wouldn't feel like a useless bagette you have to click to tickle your opponents with.

Mods make guns perform differently. Some folks don't mind extra recoil. Some do. With your logic, why have Stabilizer mods when it will effect how a LEX PRIME feels when being shot? Because it's a MODIFICATION. Let players have the option to decide what's best for them. Giving people MORE CHOICE shouldn't be a bad thing. If I wanted a gun to feel "like a pure gun it is", I would have to take off every mod and use it with no mods. And that'd be boring.

So again, why does it matter TO YOU if I use a mod to change how I use a weapon I own? Am I not allowed to use something just because I'm 45 years old and I have De Quilvain's Tendonisis? Or do I gotta turn in my Warframe gamer card because I'd like to use more than a specific set of weapons in-game because Semi trigger weapons literally hurt to use for me?

[Lutesque]

57 minutes ago, gbjbaanb said:

Trouble is, with your suggestion is that if you like the akvasto, and get an auto trigger, it will no longer feel like the akvasto but more like an afuris. And you can have an afuris today.

A small price to pay for Better Controlls....

Besides it's too late to care about One weapon feeling like another.... Given how many weapons there are in this game some overlap is inevitable.... So they may aswell just add better Controls anyway....

32 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

Am I not allowed to use something just because I'm 45 years old and I have De Quilvain's Tendonisis?

I didn't know that was it's full name 😲 !!!

 

[Salenstormwing]

Just now, Lutesque said:

I didn't know that was it's full name 😲 !!!

Nah, it's a SPECIFIC kind of Tendonitis. Mine involves having this nerve that goes OVER the tendon sheath that goes up the thumb, and what happens when the tendon gets inflamed (say from playing grineer cookie clicker with a Zakti Prime), the nerve sends shocks up pain up the nerve into my muscle at the base of the thumb up into it. Normally, I can manage it somewhat, but somedays the tendon gets overstimulated (by moving back and forth constantly) and gets inflamed and boom, now my thumb is full of prickly shocks.

It's just a bonus to normal arthritic damage.

But yeah, my doctor told me about it, and I've since researched what he was talking about, because doctor stuff is sort of complex, no matter how you slice it.

Either way, I brought my ergo-mouse home in the meantime. Still, doesn't mean I wouldn't love more options for controls and play in-game.

[Lutesque]

46 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

Nah, it's a SPECIFIC kind of Tendonitis. Mine involves having this nerve that goes OVER the tendon sheath that goes up the thumb, and what happens when the tendon gets inflamed (say from playing grineer cookie clicker with a Zakti Prime), the nerve sends shocks up pain up the nerve into my muscle at the base of the thumb up into it. Normally, I can manage it somewhat, but somedays the tendon gets overstimulated (by moving back and forth constantly) and gets inflamed and boom, now my thumb is full of prickly shocks.

That sounds Extremely painful.... Not to mention irritating.... I wouldn't be able to sleep if I experienced that 😳 !!!

48 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

 

It's just a bonus to normal arthritic damage.

And here I thought Bonuses were always good 😱 !!!

48 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

But yeah, my doctor told me about it, and I've since researched what he was talking about, because doctor stuff is sort of complex, no matter how you slice it.

I suppose it is... But who knows... Maybe sometimes Doctors will take you for a ride.... Which is fine.... The insurance is paying for it anyway 😝 !!!

49 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

Either way, I brought my ergo-mouse home in the meantime. Still, doesn't mean I wouldn't love more options for controls and play in-game.

My mouse is so rubbish I control my Desktop using Steam Input.... That and I've never been on board with the whole Wireless Technology thing.... So I'm too lazy to replace the Batteries in my mouse....

I miss the good old PS/2 Mouse Port Days 😞 !!!! Getting tangled up in all kinds cables proved you were truly Alive !!!! 

[Salenstormwing]

19 hours ago, gbjbaanb said:

When you press your finger down, you are tensing that muscle to pull the tendon and keeping it tensed, and the tendon pulled against your carpal tunnel.

Like I said, that's not quite my experience. Because my tenosynovitis is different. Here's  a small portion of how De Quervain's Tenosynovitis works...

Quote

When you grip, grasp, clench, pinch or wring anything in your hand, two tendons in your wrist and lower thumb normally glide smoothly through the small tunnel that connects them to the base of the thumb. Repeating a particular motion day after day may irritate the sheath around the two tendons, causing thickening and swelling that restricts their movement.

Citation - Mayo Clinic

So it's not just exerting pressure that causes the pain. It's the repeated motion. In this case... clicking a trigger, over and over and over. That's the part causing the carpal tunnel and sheath to get inflamed and painful.

I wouldn't have posted this whole thread if I didn't think this was something of an issue. I can't be the only player in-game who has problems with triggers being Semi and not being able to effectively use them because there's no mechanism in-game to make it easier for gamers who suffer these issues.

Plus, if DE wanted to make weapons feel more unique, they could start with changing the sounds for Nunchuck weapons from "aluminum bat" sound when hitting a wall to be more unique. I still have no idea why the fleshy, gooey Pulmonars don't go splat against walls but instead go "tink". A pair of infested limbs connected with tendon should make a 'splack' sound, just like when I move my wrist.

 

So, other than that, I'm open to other people's comments. This isn't just for me. It's for everyone. Accessability is not a negative!

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Reminder that DE has stated, that autokey/macros for this purpose are totally fine. They just don't want you using it to make bots.

 

Kinda gives them an excuse to not add it as an in-game accessibility setting. They just let you figure it out yourself instead.

[Salenstormwing]

11 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Reminder that DE has stated, that autokey/macros for this purpose are totally fine. They just don't want you using it to make bots.

 

Kinda gives them an excuse to not add it as an in-game accessibility setting. They just let you figure it out yourself instead.

Which is fine if you're on PC and have access to said functions. Not so much for everyone else. Or folks who really don't want to have to go through all the hassle for an accessibility function.